My Problem with Marvel Movies

Does anyone remember Armor Wars, where Stark went into a frenzy after finding out about his stolen tech? How about Demon in a Bottle, when Stark struggled with his alcoholic addiction? Or how about Thor, Beta-Ray Bill and The Surtur Saga? Wouldn't it have been cool if Thor: The Dark World, which also features Surtur's Malekith, had turned out to be anything like one of Simonson's many works?

Captain America seems to be the only current Avenger member that's been spared from inferior writing, much thanks to the Russo Brothers. Don't get me wrong, The Incredible Hulk is (almost) the kind of character writing I want from the characters I love, but after Edward Norton left, Mark Ruffalo's Hulk rendition seems to try his best to discard many things featured in Norton's movie, such as the implication of his ability to control his inner-beast and wield it as he wish. Also, we have almost no news of the second Hulk movie, despite having all prominent Avenger members already having their own second arc sequel movie (Ant-Man and Wasp were understandably pushed back, but Marvel's probably gonna turn them into B-Movies like Thor too).

Look, I thank you for your patience, if you've read this far. My point is... it seems like my beloved characters are not being taken seriously. Tony Stark ended up a comic relief, Thor has nothing in his movies that could be described as "epic", and Bruce Banner isn't doing so hot either. And let's not forget that Captain America 3 is going to be interrupted by Tony Stark's appearance ala Civil War style, much like DC's rushed Batman vs. Superman movie where Kal El doesn't get his own sequel.

And yet, everyone is standing for ovation for Marvel, ignoring the elephant in the room. Sure, there have been fair criticisms of Marvel movies, but we're still throwing money at them, telling them that they are going the right direction. They are not. Not from what I've seen of their past few movies, minus one Winter Soldier.

Guardians of the Galaxy is... a special case. It's fun, but so was Iron Man 2 and 3, so was The Avengers and the first Thor movie, but it seems to me that Marvel's having a little too much fun. All fun and no work makes Marvel a dumb company. Ronan the Destroyer was another Malekith whose motivation I could care less about. Gamora was okay, but her sister might as well have the label "plot-device" on her head. And Peter Quill's "lost father" sub-plot takes a backseat as comedy becomes the priority.

Look, I'm not expecting every movie to be The Dark Knight. Man of Steel proved that such a mentality can be a bad idea. But remember that the first Iron Man movie was a great character piece for Marvel, and it was hardly a Dark Knight movie. Tony struggled with his identity as a merchant of death, which was a perfect set-up to a potential Armor Wars movie. He felt guilt, he tried to redeem himself like the child he is, which is perfectly fine because that's who he is. But now, Iron Man 2 and 3 have came and gone, and RDJ, a wasted opportunity at a good story, is now walking out pretty soon after two more Avengers movie and a Captain America movie. I love Shane Black's Iron Man 3 btw, but it was hardly a character exploration story the likes of Armor Wars or Demon in a Bottle.

So please, Marvel, please for the love of god, wake up. Make Age of Ultron more than just "a good time at the movies." Make me love comic books and superheroes again.

Why do people think fun is so bad now days, did fun go on a killing spree or something?

I think they already said Age of Ultron will not have a happy ending so...

@joshmightbe: I could ask the same question about serious stuff, like proper character arcs, engaging writing that makes us invest in the character, strong antagonist motivation that challenges the protagonists' ideals, etc.

That's really good to hear. From what I saw in the teaser, there's some hope. Here's hoping the actual trailer will ease some of my tension and address my concerns.

Edit: Wait, I correct myself. That's promising, but not necessary good to hear. Grit =/= Good, remember guys.

You have to consider the GA with comicbook films, they are the majority. When they go to the theater regardless of the genre of film it is they are looking for "a good time".These studios cannot cater to the comic crowds every whim....I agree with you to a degree though.

Tbh,marvel could stop making the solo movies and I would be fine.

Thor is the big stink bomb for me. The dark world especially. That was... Weird. I watched Thor and a star wars movie broke out.

I don't think age of ultron is going to be just a good time at the movies. I think we are going to see more from the characters than we did in the iron man and Thor movies.

I think that "the comic crowds" is somewhat inaccurate. What I described? What I wanted? That kind of writing is in more than just comic book movies. Outside of the comic book movie genre, you won't have problems being stuck in the mentality that all movies must onlyhave flash and bang in order to succeed. Note the bolded emphasis.

Just for the record though, Watchmen, V For Vendetta, and Winter Soldier are the exceptional movies that I want, and they were able to cater to the comic crowds as well.

Yeah, me too. After The Dark World, I was reasonably concerned for Marvel's future.

Even though said character writing should have been in their own respective movies, I like this. I finally get to see the characters question their ideals, which is always fun to watch for me.

@tysoncage: The serious stuff gets boring. I don't want the movies to become straight comedy but for the most part Marvel has been doing a great job with balance. Yes there have been moments when they tried to hard to be funny but overall its been doing well. And yes Demon in a Bottle and Armor Wars were great, when I read them in the 80s but I already know those stories and I prefer to see something I haven't seen before.

@joshmightbe: It's not about the inclusion or a lack of comedy. I don't mind the comedy. So they "trying too hard to be funny" doesn't bother me, at all. Go ahead, be funny all you want. But it's the "other stuff" that bothers me, the stuff that should matter in a movie, even a comedy movie (which seems ridiculous a genre to label on every single Marvel graphic novel), that Marvel isn't doing right, at least in my opinion. Could you honestly tell me with a straight face that Thor has a good character journey from his first movie to his second? Or Tony Stark, for that matter?

I get it. Same can be boring. You've read those stuff before, adding a twist or spice to the mix is nice. The problem is, Iron Man 2 sucked, so that whole "adding to the mix" argument doesn't exactly weigh well with a more faithful AW and DitB adaptation considered. Iron Man 3, on the other hand, is a nice change of pace... kind of. But I'm a traditionalist when it comes to movies, and I believe that a trilogy should have a proper "Hero's Journey", Joseph Campbell style. As it is now, Iron Man and Thor are a mess.

@joshmightbe: horrible comedy gets old WAAAAAY faster. That's why after 30 minutes of GOTG , I envied a pig getting castrated

Think of it this way: why does it take a Civil War movie to make us question Tony Stark's moral obligations, when that has been done for so many years way before the Civil War comic book came out? It's a rhetorical question for the most part. I know it's harder to do on film what can be done in comic book, but it's food for thought.

@tysoncage: You do make a few points, I still don't see what everyone sees in the Winter Solider. Theres more stroy in iron Man 3 haha. But people love them some action & explosions.

@guru_crack: Because that's the first time Marvel Movie Studios ever bothered to make a protagonist struggle with his inner demons in a movie. Plus, it didn't "feel" like a comic book movie, with the superhero cliches and silliness taken down a step or two, and it was overall a really good movie much like the first Iron Man movie.

There's also the antagonist that we could take seriously, unlike whatshisname AIM guy in Iron Man 3, who feels like a certain Pixar villain.

@tysoncage: Yea didn't like how they called him Mandarin in Iron Man 3. But can't like everything. Was bored for the majority of The Winter Soldier. Everything was obvious from the start. Very forgettable. But thats just me.

@guru_crack: Whaaat? I know it's your opinion, but Winter Soldier was awesome.

I think at the start Marvel felt like literal Disney Movies. AOU looks awesome and WS and GOTG were both awesome as well.

That's why I say that Iron Man is the only Marvel movie I have zero complaints about. It's a shame that Marvel's best movie (imo) is also their best movie.

I see his point. I did enjoy the movie, personally, but even without reading the original story it was kind of predictable.

@tex_the_slayer said:

Yeah, I really hope that AoU will be great. I also REALLY hope that they don't screw up Enchantress like they did with the rest of the Thor movies.

I'm with him as well. The movie was good, but it never wowed me. I was never surprised by any of the plot points, and I was basically able to predict the entire thing.

@eyedcyou: So even Marvel's best was predictable. Heh. I sure didn't PREDICT that one. lol

Hold on now. There was never any implication that Banner could control the Hulk, just that he might be able to aim it. He transformed at will thanks to his "tantric anger."

@sesquipedalophobe: Mhm, true. I still wish Edward Norton had stuck around though. I like Mark Ruffalo, don't get me wrong, but his portrayal of Bruce just isn't as interesting for me as Norton's Bruce. Just my taste.

Here's crossing fingers for the unknown Hulk sequel coming up. I hope to god it isn't Planet Hulk, because that's not really a good way to follow up Bruce's character development. He has far better stories out there that were untapped.

Serious? Bad.

Comedy? Bad.

Balance? Bad.

@eyedcyou: Well glad I wasn't the only one who felt it was predictable, didn't say it was terrible a solid 6/10 IMO. @guardiandevil83: Each to their own I guess, just don't understand the popularity of that one.

@tysoncage: Edward Norton had a whole movie to himself, though. Ruffalo's character was outside of himself. If he does get his own movie and it does involve Planet Hulk, this is a good thing: a Hulk with actual dialogue might make way for an interesting movie. He might actually be the bad guy everyone thought Thanos might be. This isn't a prediction, but just a thoughtful reminder to Marvel Studios to surprise its fans in good and bad ways. Be positive, my friend.

@sesquipedalophobe: Exactly my point. One of the original members of the Avengers didn't even have half of a trilogy set up yet, especially when you consider that the Edward Norton movie might as well be a standalone movie of its own.

Black Widow hasn't even had a first movie. Neither has Hawkeye, for that matter.

@squares said:

That's because Black Widow and Hawkeye weren't the original members of The Avengers, hence why they weren't given the special treatment like the others. Captain America is special, because he was given a very important role in The Avengers later, a role called the "leader", unlike those two.

My point was directed at the core members of The Avengers, obviously.

Yeah, for something that was supposed to be obvious, it kind of wasn't.

But hey, if we're talking about original members, Wasp hasn't had a movie. Hell, it sounds like she won't even be showing up in the Ant-Man movie.

@squares said:

Thus further proving my point that Marvel's f**king around with the characters... because they don't give a damn as long as it sells. Yay for firing Edgar Wright.

@tysoncage: So you admit your statement was false?

Which one? The "obvious" part? Seriously? You're still hung up about that? lol

Squares is going in!

@tysoncage: No, the line where you stated that all other Avengers have had their own movies.

So I've made a mistake about that part, but so what? The Hulk is a more prominent figure than Ant-Man and The Wasp, so your statement merely emphasizes how surprising it is that he got lunked in with those b-level characters when it comes to importance. My point still stands.

Your point may stand, but your statement is incorrect. I suggest you change it.

Why can't we just be happy and appreciate the fact that characters like Ironman, Thor, Superman etc etc are actually on the big screen?

Okay, my bad. I'll change it.

Yeah, f*** me for wanting good writing out of my movies.

@tysoncage: Great.

This guy basically sums it up. After Guardians of the Galaxy, which is totally lame and boring, not to mention having such blend characters I couldn't give a f**k about, I've given up on the MCU as well. It's a joke, really.

Yeah, yeah, you guys go have 'fun' with those silly Marvel movies while we mature audiences enjoy real movies like Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice with REAL stories, not some half-assed comedies.

I mean, you know the reason why superhero movies aren't taken seriously is mostly because of Marvel, right? With their stupid jokes and cliches, no wonder they didn't win any Oscars. Winter Soldier came close because it was the closest thing that tried to be serious - get a f**king clue, Marvel. Jesus.

@tysoncage: Right. People were taking these movies seriously before that damb Marvel!

Steel, Batman and Robin and Superman four were classics

@guardiandevil83: Right, because it's so convenient to just forget the moment when movies were taken seriously was because of f**king DC, not Marvel. Batman Begins, yo.

Also, no Marvel movie would ever be hailed as much as a classic as the first Superman movie, not even the first two Sony Spider-Man movies. So yeah, Marvel's really got it in spades alright. Even f**king X-Men wasn't taken seriously till Days of Future Past came along, which I didn't even really like that much.

Furthermore, we're talking about MARVEL's problem here, not DC. Don't try to change the subject. Marvel is f**king lame, and they aren't doing anything about it. My point prior to this comment was that Winter Soldier receiving Oscar attention was undeniable proof that only that shred of pitiful seriousness that Marvel's pathetically showing was the only saving grace they have for even have a chance to play with the big leagues. So yeah, take my advice Marvel and just grow the f**k up.

@tysoncage: Blade did a very good job as well.

@guardiandevil83: Right, because how many people still remember or have even heard of that Blade movie as opposed to Superman: The Movie again? Superman is a cultural phenomenon, Blade was just another superhero movie forgotten in time.

Yawn, who cares? They have been making SOLID well made and sometimes even excellent movies which is more than ANYONE has been able to so with comic characters EVER.

I enjoy the balances they are working with and apparently so does the majority of movie goers. You are in the minority. You want a serious comic book movie? Get in line.

LOL 'Balance', he calls it. Right, balance. That's funny, 'coz Disney just tipped that balance all the way to the other extreme end, in case you didn't notice.

And since you 'yawned' at my comment, I'm gonna dismiss yours with a 'yawn' as well. Whatever, kid. Go live in your blissful ignorance and yawn at people's comments.

You know, it is just so typical of Marvel fanboys to be so blinded, incapable of accepting criticisms of their precious movies and franchises that they simply resort to these childish 'yawnings' and whatnot.

Yeah, and the majority of movie goers ate up Michael Bay's Transformers bullshit as well. What's your point?

@tysoncage: you going to cry about it saddle bags?

I notice you separated yourself from marvel fans there. Don't worry superman will be crying and being emo till your hearts content in Superman v batman