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#1 Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes this is officially my farewell to DC Comics as I can no longer stand it. I have thought about this for a good while now, but I just can't bring myself to give money to a company for comics that I no longer believe in. Yes, I no longer believe in DC.

I know the New 52 is a reboot. I know that things are to be expected to change or cease to exist. However it wasn't until just yesterday that I realized something. That it finally and truly hit me. All of these changes, all of the condensing of years worth of character history, all the teams that I grew up with and the characters I loved, are gone. Just gone. My two favorite teams? The Teen Titans and JSA? Yeah they're gone and not coming back.

It's like DC made a checklist of things that people liked and just went

"Eh, screw 'em they'll get used to it"

I'm not the only one who feels like this. I have 7 other close friends who feel the same way and I've even talked to over 40 complete strangers in my book store who feel the same way since the reboot happened.

Back to the teams I mentioned. Before anyone says "Oh, but the Teen Titans are still the same!" no they aren't. They don't even have the ORIGINAL founding members on the team. Actually I take it back, they DO have original founding members. For YOUNG JUSTICE!! Tim Drake, Bart Allen, Cassie Sandsmark, and Superboy. All founding members of Young Justice. I wish they had called the book Young Justice because at least that way I could pretend that the original Titans still existed. But no they don't. I mean not even Donna Troy is around anymore!!!!

Which brings me to my next gripe. Earth 2. I've been vocal about this. I hate Earth 2. I hate the book with a passion. You want to know why? Every single character in that universe is not a Golden Age character, they are only members of the JSA in name only.

But here's one of the things that broke me. Alan Scott, THE ORIGINAL GREEN LANTERN WHO HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AS LONG AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN, A GOLDEN AGE ICON, being gay. Look I have no problems with gay people. Do I understand it? No. Do I hate gay people? No. Am I gay? No. My problem isn't with the gay, it's what it has DONE to the character.

DC did not even THINK when they made that change. Alan Scott has been around for nearly 80 years. He is not some character that's been around for five or 10 years and you can suddenly make him gay. No it doesn't work like that. Now Alan Scott will not be remembered as the original Green Lantern, a character capable of taking on both the Justice Society AND Justice League and being more powerful than Superman. He will be forever branded as gay Green Lantern. The other day I was in my book store and I heard a couple of kids, no older than 15, pick up a copy of Earth 2 and one of them asks which Green Lantern is in the book. The other responded

"Oh, he's that gay Green Lantern."

That gay Green Lantern. That's what the character has been reduced to. My favorite hero of the Golden Age being reduced to a character who's just known for being gay. Yeah, that hurts.

Now I don't blame the writers I really don't. I blame DC itself. Why? Because they advertised it, they paraded around the fact they made Alan Scott gay. They put a characters sexuality over the character himself. It was in such HORRIBLE taste, it was so distasteful that my cousin, a lesbian, and her partner who were just getting into comics actually decided NEVER to pick up another comic again because of how this was done. If they had just done it and NOT say they did, just let it be a surprise? Yeah I can honestly say I would feel less emotional about it. Why? Because not only is it in better taste, but because it would give people the chance to KNOW this version of Alan instead of just going "He's the gay Green Lantern".

You see? This is the kind of thing DC has been reduced to. It may sound petty, but I don't care.

Also as a final thought. Marvel did their own New 52 and did it a BILLION TIMES better than DC. They didn't wipe their universe clean, changing character's orientations, or make a big affair out of it. They did what a GOOD company does. They made new number ones, new series, where it was extremely easy for people to come in and get to know these characters. To maybe even encourage them to go back and try to find older stories.

DC? They failed.

#2 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre flashpoint, Dick/Wally generation and JSA were playing big roles in events like Final Crisis. I have to agree that dc could've done better with the Wally/donna generation and the Justice Society. The Teen Titans cartoons and Young justice cartoons used Dick/Wally so I would argue that the Dick/Wally generation is more iconic since it is from the iconic silver age. Teen Titans reboot could've started with Dick/Wally/Donna and just figure out how to introduce Bart/Cassie for later. Sales of Teen Titans might be higher if the leader was Nightwing. Wally can be kid flash and just have a mystery on how Wally is tapping into the speed force and postpone the explanation for later while the rebooted speed force was being developed in the Flash title. Donna Wonder Girl can easily have the Titans of myth origin so she need not have ties to the rebooted Wonder Woman origin. Cassie could've been introduced later with whatever rebooted origin whether another daughter of Zeus, or Trigon related. As for the rebooted earth 2, my guess is once the earth 2 title is cancelled, we should see more justice society reboots in the main earth to join Michael Holt, Jim Corrigan, Courtney Whitmore, etc. Smallville tv had Alan Scott and jay garrick as part of a forgotten past group and that could've easily worked in the new 52 reboots. If there was a strong desire to have young versions of alan scott and jay garrick, it is also possible to do main earth reboots for them with origins not related to green lantern corps and speed force. Main earth Terry Sloane can be used as a helper or rival or enemy of Michael Holt. Based on the top sellers, dc currently is mainly about Batman, Green Lantern and Superman and dc is probably paying very little attention to Teen titans and justice society so it is understandable that more people are dissatisfied over the reboots of teen titans and justice society.

#3 Posted by Bruxae (12229 posts) - - Show Bio

Wall of Crying?

Online
#4 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

As a comic fan, I can sympathize with your standpoint. If one of my favorite characters was made gay solely to serve the image of diversity that DC wants - and that became the character's sole defining aspect - I would be pissed off. Most of my favorite DC characters were largely untouched or improved upon by the New 52 so I don't really have a problem with the reboot, but I can see where you're coming from.

Good luck with it, at any rate. Maybe someday in the future you might find something you enjoy in DC.

#5 Edited by wolverine1610 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

lol the new 52 "take everything you know and love about our characters and just forget it, forget it all! we may take out some characters too and we'll be kinda vague on which stories still count and which ones dont" <--- in a nutshell

#6 Posted by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude:

1. I miss the Titans & JSA as well. I also miss the Wildstorm characters.

2. I've tried and tried. I cannot get into Robinson's Earth 2. The Gay Lantern doesn't bother me tho.

3. I'm on the fence with DC. I'm still picking up a few titles but that grows less and less every few months.

#7 Posted by ccraft (5016 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked DC before, but the new 52 is what got me back into comics. The stories were good, with great art. Things changed for the better imo (my sister has told me a lot of dumb things pre-N52, like woman question and Damian joining TT, or even Dick Grayson getting with Catwoman wtf! Shes told me a lot of stuff like that but I forgot most of it.)

Why not have some characters put in a bag for later? I'm sure when Wally or Donna Troy return you guys will have another happy memory of that character.

Also the gay Alan Scott thing, why the hell would they do that to a character like that. The 1st GL lets make him gay for no reason? I just hope they never do that to one of the Bat characters.

If they where going to do a reboot they at least need to do it right, and I like how DC handled it. How did Marvel do theirs? They kept the continuity and went back to #1. They did the A vs X and everything changed. We don't get Xavier as the teacher/leader because Scott killed him. Now Scott is out of the Original X-men. I just don't like how they handled it.

For me, Marvel now ruined

  • The Avengers
  • The X-Men
  • Spider-Man
  • Wolverine sorta with him leading the x school

#8 Edited by Regal_Rumble_Man (874 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude, just send hate mail or DDoS their site

#9 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft Apologies for derailing the thread, but out of curiosity, how did Marvel NOW ruin Avengers for you? I'm just interested in finding out about the opposite opinion, because most people seem to enjoy what Hickman's doing with Avengers and New Avengers.

#10 Edited by ccraft (5016 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@ccraft Apologies for derailing the thread, but out of curiosity, how did Marvel NOW ruin Avengers for you? I'm just interested in finding out about the opposite opinion, because most people seem to enjoy what Hickman's doing with Avengers and New Avengers.

Probably should have went into detail about that. Well Uncanny Avengers looks horrible with a terrible roster. New Avengers seems interesting after just one issue, i'm waiting to pick up on that. Previews for Avengers, haven't really drawn me in, some chromed out villain (not Ulton) is attacking the Avengers on a different planet. I feel like I wouldn't understand what was going on. Maybe i'll have a better under standing when Marvel Now does the 700 sale where they sale there #1 issues for free on comixology.

I mostly meant Uncanny Avengers by that Marvel ruined Avengers for me.

#12 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (10916 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@veshark said:

@ccraft Apologies for derailing the thread, but out of curiosity, how did Marvel NOW ruin Avengers for you? I'm just interested in finding out about the opposite opinion, because most people seem to enjoy what Hickman's doing with Avengers and New Avengers.

Probably should have went into detail about that. Well Uncanny Avengers looks horrible with a terrible roster. New Avengers seems interesting after just one issue, i'm waiting to pick up on that. Previews for Avengers, haven't really drawn me in, some chromed out villain (not Ulton) is attacking the Avengers on a different planet. I feel like I wouldn't understand what was going on. Maybe i'll have a better under standing when Marvel Now does the 700 sale where they sale there #1 issues for free on comixology.

I mostly meant Uncanny Avengers by that Marvel ruined Avengers for me.

I see what you mean. I think the Avengers title currently sucks, I keep reading it but I have yet to enjoy a full issue. I do really like New Avengers though, it's completely different. Uncanny is just weird and isn't working out well, in my opinion.

But to stay on topic, you seemed like you were going to be coming off a little homophobic but after you explained yourself, it became justifiable. I agree with the Alan Scott thing. If they had just "turned" him gay and let the readers find out, it might have been a bit better. But they promoted it so much, it really did become completely tasteless. Pre-Flashpoint had a lot of crap going on in it's continuity, but I can honestly say that I would prefer THAT universe over the N52 any day of the week. There are some things I like about the N52, but they could have been easily integrated into the old U. I'm sorry you're so fed up with DC, hopefully in a few years or so they get their crap together enough for you to find enjoyment in their issues again.

#13 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft Well, I'm ambivalent towards Uncanny Avengers. Haven't read much of it, but Cassaday's lackluster art and Remender's terribly winding narration bores me.

You should check out Avengers and New Avengers though. I think Avengers is pretty easy to understand once you've read the first issue, and New Avengers has been pretty solid so far.

#14 Posted by ccraft (5016 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: That would have been better I suppose, I'm fine with writers make new characters gay, just not old ones. Especially if there just making a character gay just to make him gay. Like with Alan Scott. It has to fit well with the story, I also don't agree on how the transgender thing played out in Batgirl, they could have hinted at it.

@veshark: I probably will start getting New Avengers when the price drops. Issue #1 got my attention, the whole ''we should control the world secretly'' was pretty crazy and very intriguing.

#15 Edited by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

I understand, that's why I'm not touching the comics that changed in New52. That's why my primary focus would be Marvel because they didn't screw their stories up. I am sad to say my first introduction to Alan Scott was him being the gay Green Lantern...well I had heard of him before but nothing more than the name.

#16 Edited by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

At least you still have your old comics to go back to and reminiscence over. :]

#17 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (10916 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Their reasoning for Alan Scott to be gay was because his son, Obsidian, was gay. Which, I guess COULD make sense in DC's minds? But if Alan is gay now, then I don't see how they could come up with a story where Alan decides he wants to be with a woman and then just so happen to have two kids, Obsidian and Jade. Unless of course they decide not to resurrect those two, which would piss me off. I agree that them turning Scott gay was all for publicity, it was wrong to do it because of that. And the way they introduced the transgender was extremely random. I have no problem with it, it just seems so forced.

#18 Posted by DEGRAAF (7869 posts) - - Show Bio

lol i never knew Alan Scott could take on the JLA and JSA and was more powerful then Superman?

#19 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

the memories and the stories are still there. to reboot and change nothing is to, well, basically do nothing. do I think they made well in chaing Scott into a gay character? no, they should've made a new green lantern for that, but it's another take and in another 80 years, if DC does another reboot and that time around they make Alan Scott an assexual vegan, people will go "OMG but he was gay wth, why dont you leave him gay DC??? I HATE YOU"

and that will be wrong too. but it is what it is. nobody likes drastic changes, but in these situations it's nearly hopeless to figh it. adaptation is what makes you persevere.

OP have you actually read Earth 2? it's one of the best books DC has been putting out IMO. and Im not alone in this thought. just give it a try. gay alan scott is a BAMF and cool as hell, just let him show you

#20 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: I'm not homophobic, as I've made clear. In fact? I'm kinda indifferent on homosexuality in general, mainly because it's none of my business what someone else does.

Anyway, Alan Scott being gay is not my MAJOR problem. It hurt the most because of HOW it was done. If they had kept it ambiguous for a few issues then I might have had a better reaction to it. It all just came off as DC saying

"Hey! Lookie! We got a gay Green Lantern! Sure he isn't in the MAIN DC universe and he's not a member of the Green Lantern CORPS, but he's got the ring and stuff!"

It's not like they couldn't make a new mainstream Green Lantern gay now is it? No, they just made a pre-established heterosexual character gay and advertised the hell out of it just to make it as much of a sales gimmick as possible.

There are things I like about the New 52 don't get me wrong. I like how Superman's costume works now since it does explain how he can have a cape and boots under his clothes. I like Wonder Woman being a demigoddess and daughter of Zeus and having apparently very enhanced powers. I like how they have Aquaman being able to control fish and aquatic life through a bio-electrical pulse to push them into doing what he wants since talking to fish never made much sense to me. And finally Justice League Dark because it's just awesome.

Things I hate? Billy Batson's characterization into being a little snot, Aquaman being ridiculed by the people of the DCU when they have no REASON to make fun of him unless there was a Superfriends cartoon to mock him and shape their perceptions of him as a weak hero, Superman wearing armor, the fact the entire history of the Bat Family has been condensed into just five years, the fact that two of my favorite teams in comics are gone and not coming back, the fact that numerous other characters like Wally West, Donna Troy, Jade, Tempest(Or Aqualad if you prefer), Jesse Chambers, any of the Hourmen, and a lot of other characters that are either just gone or have been changed so much from what they were they might as well be.

Really I think this sums up what DC was doing when they wiped everything clean

They wiped out YEARS worth of history, of great stories, destroyed teams and mythos alike that had great and rich histories.

Really I think the thing that stopped me from doing this sooner is the Young Justice cartoon. It was like a buffer for me because no matter how much I'd rage about what DC did, Young Justice took me to a DC universe that while fresh and new felt familiar and the characters I knew from the comics still FELT like themselves. Once YJ got cancelled, I didn't have a buffer anymore. Really I wish the New 52 universe was Earth 16 AKA Young Justice's universe. At least that way things would FEEL normal

#21 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12418 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Their reasoning for Alan Scott to be gay was because his son, Obsidian, was gay. Which, I guess COULD make sense in DC's minds? But if Alan is gay now, then I don't see how they could come up with a story where Alan decides he wants to be with a woman and then just so happen to have two kids, Obsidian and Jade. Unless of course they decide not to resurrect those two, which would piss me off. I agree that them turning Scott gay was all for publicity, it was wrong to do it because of that. And the way they introduced the transgender was extremely random. I have no problem with it, it just seems so forced.

they could make it so that he adopts them or maybe he had a girlfriend before and impregnated her without knowing.

#22 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (10916 posts) - - Show Bio
@arturocalakayvee said:

@ccraft: Their reasoning for Alan Scott to be gay was because his son, Obsidian, was gay. Which, I guess COULD make sense in DC's minds? But if Alan is gay now, then I don't see how they could come up with a story where Alan decides he wants to be with a woman and then just so happen to have two kids, Obsidian and Jade. Unless of course they decide not to resurrect those two, which would piss me off. I agree that them turning Scott gay was all for publicity, it was wrong to do it because of that. And the way they introduced the transgender was extremely random. I have no problem with it, it just seems so forced.

they could make it so that he adopts them or maybe he had a girlfriend before and impregnated her without knowing.

An issue with adoption would be how would both children get their powers? Weren't both powers derived from Scott's powers? I know Jades is but I don't remember if Obsidians were too. Your latter choice would be the most accurate/probable, I didn't think that would happen because I had assumed Alan Scott always knew he was gay.

@arturocalakayvee: I'm not homophobic, as I've made clear. In fact? I'm kinda indifferent on homosexuality in general, mainly because it's none of my business what someone else does.

Anyway, Alan Scott being gay is not my MAJOR problem. It hurt the most because of HOW it was done. If they had kept it ambiguous for a few issues then I might have had a better reaction to it. It all just came off as DC saying

"Hey! Lookie! We got a gay Green Lantern! Sure he isn't in the MAIN DC universe and he's not a member of the Green Lantern CORPS, but he's got the ring and stuff!"

It's not like they couldn't make a new mainstream Green Lantern gay now is it? No, they just made a pre-established heterosexual character gay and advertised the hell out of it just to make it as much of a sales gimmick as possible.

There are things I like about the New 52 don't get me wrong. I like how Superman's costume works now since it does explain how he can have a cape and boots under his clothes. I like Wonder Woman being a demigoddess and daughter of Zeus and having apparently very enhanced powers. I like how they have Aquaman being able to control fish and aquatic life through a bio-electrical pulse to push them into doing what he wants since talking to fish never made much sense to me. And finally Justice League Dark because it's just awesome.

Things I hate? Billy Batson's characterization into being a little snot, Aquaman being ridiculed by the people of the DCU when they have no REASON to make fun of him unless there was a Superfriends cartoon to mock him and shape their perceptions of him as a weak hero, Superman wearing armor, the fact the entire history of the Bat Family has been condensed into just five years, the fact that two of my favorite teams in comics are gone and not coming back, the fact that numerous other characters like Wally West, Donna Troy, Jade, Tempest(Or Aqualad if you prefer), Jesse Chambers, any of the Hourmen, and a lot of other characters that are either just gone or have been changed so much from what they were they might as well be.

They wiped out YEARS worth of history, of great stories, destroyed teams and mythos alike that had great and rich histories.

Really I think the thing that stopped me from doing this sooner is the Young Justice cartoon. It was like a buffer for me because no matter how much I'd rage about what DC did, Young Justice took me to a DC universe that while fresh and new felt familiar and the characters I knew from the comics still FELT like themselves. Once YJ got cancelled, I didn't have a buffer anymore. Really I wish the New 52 universe was Earth 16 AKA Young Justice's universe. At least that way things would FEEL normal

I don't think you're homophobic, apologies if I came across that way. I originally thought it was going to be, maybe due to my ignorance, but I realized (rather quickly) as I was reading your post that wasn't the case.

I don't have much of a response other than everything you just said, I completely agree with. To add, the things you DO like, could have easily been integrated into the DCU without the need for a FlashPoint reboot. But DC did it anyway. It's ridiculous and it's upsetting. I miss the guys you mentioned so much, they were some of my favorite characters. Let's just hope that time will revive them.

#23 Edited by sagejonathan (1783 posts) - - Show Bio

The new 52 was my entry into comics so i can't hate it, but I understand why your angry. May I recommend Valiant as a substitute for DC?

#24 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: If DC shapes up, because I WILL still be keeping tabs on stuff if only because I still care about the DC universe no matter how much it's changed, within the next few years or so and works things around to be like it was before or at least somewhat like it was before then I'll gladly start buying comics from them again. I'm still a DC fan. I'll still watch their shows, buy their games, what have you. The comics though? Unless it's a comic about PRE-New 52 then they've lost a customer

#25 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

#26 Posted by Cap10nate (2122 posts) - - Show Bio

I've also been steadily dropping my DC pull list. I was pulling about 10 titles about a 8 months ago but now I am down to 3 and may get rid of them. I've replaced them all with Marvel Now titles and am completely satisfied with the stories they are putting out.

#27 Edited by Queso6p4 (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude said:

Yes this is officially my farewell to DC Comics as I can no longer stand it. I have thought about this for a good while now, but I just can't bring myself to give money to a company for comics that I no longer believe in. Yes, I no longer believe in DC.

I know the New 52 is a reboot. I know that things are to be expected to change or cease to exist. However it wasn't until just yesterday that I realized something. That it finally and truly hit me. All of these changes, all of the condensing of years worth of character history, all the teams that I grew up with and the characters I loved, are gone. Just gone. My two favorite teams? The Teen Titans and JSA? Yeah they're gone and not coming back.

It's like DC made a checklist of things that people liked and just went

"Eh, screw 'em they'll get used to it"

I'm not the only one who feels like this. I have 7 other close friends who feel the same way and I've even talked to over 40 complete strangers in my book store who feel the same way since the reboot happened.

Back to the teams I mentioned. Before anyone says "Oh, but the Teen Titans are still the same!" no they aren't. They don't even have the ORIGINAL founding members on the team. Actually I take it back, they DO have original founding members. For YOUNG JUSTICE!! Tim Drake, Bart Allen, Cassie Sandsmark, and Superboy. All founding members of Young Justice. I wish they had called the book Young Justice because at least that way I could pretend that the original Titans still existed. But no they don't. I mean not even Donna Troy is around anymore!!!!

Which brings me to my next gripe. Earth 2. I've been vocal about this. I hate Earth 2. I hate the book with a passion. You want to know why? Every single character in that universe is not a Golden Age character, they are only members of the JSA in name only.

But here's one of the things that broke me. Alan Scott, THE ORIGINAL GREEN LANTERN WHO HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AS LONG AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN, A GOLDEN AGE ICON, being gay. Look I have no problems with gay people. Do I understand it? No. Do I hate gay people? No. Am I gay? No. My problem isn't with the gay, it's what it has DONE to the character.

DC did not even THINK when they made that change. Alan Scott has been around for nearly 80 years. He is not some character that's been around for five or 10 years and you can suddenly make him gay. No it doesn't work like that. Now Alan Scott will not be remembered as the original Green Lantern, a character capable of taking on both the Justice Society AND Justice League and being more powerful than Superman. He will be forever branded as gay Green Lantern. The other day I was in my book store and I heard a couple of kids, no older than 15, pick up a copy of Earth 2 and one of them asks which Green Lantern is in the book. The other responded

"Oh, he's that gay Green Lantern."

That gay Green Lantern. That's what the character has been reduced to. My favorite hero of the Golden Age being reduced to a character who's just known for being gay. Yeah, that hurts.

Now I don't blame the writers I really don't. I blame DC itself. Why? Because they advertised it, they paraded around the fact they made Alan Scott gay. They put a characters sexuality over the character himself. It was in such HORRIBLE taste, it was so distasteful that my cousin, a lesbian, and her partner who were just getting into comics actually decided NEVER to pick up another comic again because of how this was done. If they had just done it and NOT say they did, just let it be a surprise? Yeah I can honestly say I would feel less emotional about it. Why? Because not only is it in better taste, but because it would give people the chance to KNOW this version of Alan instead of just going "He's the gay Green Lantern".

You see? This is the kind of thing DC has been reduced to. It may sound petty, but I don't care.

Also as a final thought. Marvel did their own New 52 and did it a BILLION TIMES better than DC. They didn't wipe their universe clean, changing character's orientations, or make a big affair out of it. They did what a GOOD company does. They made new number ones, new series, where it was extremely easy for people to come in and get to know these characters. To maybe even encourage them to go back and try to find older stories.

DC? They failed.

I'm not joking at all. You should send this to them and let 'em know how you feel. You were a paying fan and they need critical feedback as well as compliments. I hope you still get joy from reading your other books.

I understand, that's why I'm not touching the comics that changed in New52. That's why my primary focus would be Marvel because they didn't screw their stories up. I am sad to say my first introduction to Alan Scott was him being the gay Green Lantern...well I had heard of him before but nothing more than the name.

I feel you on that. Most of my favorite books are Marvel titles but also include some from Image, Darkhorse, Valiant, ect. My most "recent" top ten list only had one DC title, I think. They really need to step their game up.

#28 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12418 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt said:
@arturocalakayvee said:

@ccraft: Their reasoning for Alan Scott to be gay was because his son, Obsidian, was gay. Which, I guess COULD make sense in DC's minds? But if Alan is gay now, then I don't see how they could come up with a story where Alan decides he wants to be with a woman and then just so happen to have two kids, Obsidian and Jade. Unless of course they decide not to resurrect those two, which would piss me off. I agree that them turning Scott gay was all for publicity, it was wrong to do it because of that. And the way they introduced the transgender was extremely random. I have no problem with it, it just seems so forced.

they could make it so that he adopts them or maybe he had a girlfriend before and impregnated her without knowing.

An issue with adoption would be how would both children get their powers? Weren't both powers derived from Scott's powers? I know Jades is but I don't remember if Obsidians were too. Your latter choice would be the most accurate/probable, I didn't think that would happen because I had assumed Alan Scott always knew he was gay.

any talented writer could have him gave them powers in some way. surrogacy is also an option. he and his boyfriend could ask a close female friend if they can impregnate her.

@smart_dork_dude said:

@arturocalakayvee: I'm not homophobic, as I've made clear. In fact? I'm kinda indifferent on homosexuality in general, mainly because it's none of my business what someone else does.

Anyway, Alan Scott being gay is not my MAJOR problem. It hurt the most because of HOW it was done. If they had kept it ambiguous for a few issues then I might have had a better reaction to it. It all just came off as DC saying

"Hey! Lookie! We got a gay Green Lantern! Sure he isn't in the MAIN DC universe and he's not a member of the Green Lantern CORPS, but he's got the ring and stuff!"

It's not like they couldn't make a new mainstream Green Lantern gay now is it? No, they just made a pre-established heterosexual character gay and advertised the hell out of it just to make it as much of a sales gimmick as possible.

There are things I like about the New 52 don't get me wrong. I like how Superman's costume works now since it does explain how he can have a cape and boots under his clothes. I like Wonder Woman being a demigoddess and daughter of Zeus and having apparently very enhanced powers. I like how they have Aquaman being able to control fish and aquatic life through a bio-electrical pulse to push them into doing what he wants since talking to fish never made much sense to me. And finally Justice League Dark because it's just awesome.

Things I hate? Billy Batson's characterization into being a little snot, Aquaman being ridiculed by the people of the DCU when they have no REASON to make fun of him unless there was a Superfriends cartoon to mock him and shape their perceptions of him as a weak hero, Superman wearing armor, the fact the entire history of the Bat Family has been condensed into just five years, the fact that two of my favorite teams in comics are gone and not coming back, the fact that numerous other characters like Wally West, Donna Troy, Jade, Tempest(Or Aqualad if you prefer), Jesse Chambers, any of the Hourmen, and a lot of other characters that are either just gone or have been changed so much from what they were they might as well be.

They wiped out YEARS worth of history, of great stories, destroyed teams and mythos alike that had great and rich histories.

Really I think the thing that stopped me from doing this sooner is the Young Justice cartoon. It was like a buffer for me because no matter how much I'd rage about what DC did, Young Justice took me to a DC universe that while fresh and new felt familiar and the characters I knew from the comics still FELT like themselves. Once YJ got cancelled, I didn't have a buffer anymore. Really I wish the New 52 universe was Earth 16 AKA Young Justice's universe. At least that way things would FEEL normal

I don't think you're homophobic, apologies if I came across that way. I originally thought it was going to be, maybe due to my ignorance, but I realized (rather quickly) as I was reading your post that wasn't the case.

I don't have much of a response other than everything you just said, I completely agree with. To add, the things you DO like, could have easily been integrated into the DCU without the need for a FlashPoint reboot. But DC did it anyway. It's ridiculous and it's upsetting. I miss the guys you mentioned so much, they were some of my favorite characters. Let's just hope that time will revive them.

#29 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting comments here!

#30 Posted by Catsnlynne (982 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Alan Scott being gay. I hope they don't go the route of him having had a girlfriend who got pregnant and had his children. I hope he meets a nice man who he can start a relationship with. Hopefully someone from the JSA.

#31 Posted by Charetter115 (475 posts) - - Show Bio

@catsnlynne: What if they picked Wildcat? That would be the WORST choice for his JSA boyfriend.

#32 Posted by danhimself (22217 posts) - - Show Bio

I pretty much agree with this....the Teen Titans were a collection of tons of my favorite DC characters and they've been butchered

I really don't understand the people who got into comics through the New 52 and claim that these are good stories.....they really aren't....I have said this before and I will say this again...there are a few standout titles in the New 52 and those are Aquaman, Batman, Swamp Thing, and Animal Man and not a single one of those stories were dependent on the changes made in the New 52...they all could have been told in the PreFlashpoint universe without changing a thing about them....the rest of DC's books are just plain bad to mediocre

#33 Posted by Catsnlynne (982 posts) - - Show Bio

@catsnlynne: What if they picked Wildcat? That would be the WORST choice for his JSA boyfriend.

Didn't think about Wildcat. I agree. That would be the worst choice.

#34 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

@queso6p4: Oh I just did and I did them the ultimate insult I could give them. I FIXED the Earth 2 problem

My personal vision for what would have been an infinitely better Earth 2? Keep the original origins, but explore upon them more. L

ike with Alan Scott still getting the Starheart Lantern, like the lantern is in the cargo part of the train in a crate. He gets it in an identical fashion as he did in his origin story, but he would NOT suddenly decide to be a superhero. He in fact resists the idea since he figures he wouldn't make much of a difference since Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are doing a good job already.

However when the Big Three die fighting off the forces of Apokolips, it causes Alan to step up to the plate. He already lived in Gotham and had done nothing to help with the crime since getting his powers, which had lead to his girlfriend Rose Canton being horribly beaten by a group of thugs who were "celebrating" the death of Batman.

This event would cause a psychotic break in Rose and cause her to develop the split personality of Thorn, who would be a highly unstable and deadly vigilante that kills criminals of all kinds indiscriminately with Rose nor Alan being none the wiser. Alan then takes up the mantle of the Green Lantern, wearing a homemade costume which consists of a red shirt and a dark green trench coat, green pants, and a purple domino mask(He eventually trades up to a better costume with a cape) to defend Gotham.

It's here where a young man in college named Jay Garrick is in a lab experimenting with a chemical he and his professor are developing code-named HEAVY which would allow a person to heal from injuries at extreme rates when applied to a wound or broken bone. Then one night a gang bursts into the lab looking for drugs while Jay and his professor are still there working. They tie them up and begin to trash the lab, but the professor warns that the chemicals are highly volatile and could kill them. The gang then beat the professor and force Jay to drink the HEAVY chemical, forcing it down his throat with the idea it would kill him. The gang then accidentally starts a fire which begins to engulf the room.

They escape and leave Jay to die. However the fire burns through his ropes and he drags the professor out of the fire, doing so at speeds he didn't think possible. He drags the professor outside who is also astounded at Jay's speed, having run down two stories worth of stairs and outside in under 3 seconds. Jay has little time to ponder his powers as he then runs back up to the blazing room and spins his arms to create a wind to put out the flames. Jay then runs after the gang and beats them, the gang never seeing anything but a crimson flash from Jay's red football jersey. Soon Jay feels compelled to use his powers to help the world in the absence of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman and makes his own costume. He wears a motorcycle helmet with golden wing stickers on it, a pair of ski goggles to protect his eyes at high speeds, a red shirt with a lightning bolt on it, blue jeans, and red running shoes.

See? I just made two perfectly good origins that not only keep true to Jay AND Alan's origins, but have also made them newer and more modern at the same time.

I sent this along with my complaint to DC

#35 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (10916 posts) - - Show Bio

I've also been steadily dropping my DC pull list. I was pulling about 10 titles about a 8 months ago but now I am down to 3 and may get rid of them. I've replaced them all with Marvel Now titles and am completely satisfied with the stories they are putting out.

You should pick up some Justice Society of America books (probably the 2007 run), they give a nice taste of awesome and great Alan Scott is.

#36 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (10916 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: You're right, I wasn't thinking hard enough. There are plenty of ways to do this.

Concern = Over.

#37 Edited by novi_homines (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm actually getting more into DC.

#38 Posted by skooks (205 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how you backed up your Alan Scott Earth 2 opinion with "I know gay people and they were pissed!" as if that somehow validates your anger. I'm gay and I don't have a single problem with what James D. Robinson did, and nor do all the other gay comic readers I know. You know, people are crying over it because it's some arbitrary thing, and yeah I suppose it is, but people have no problem whatsoever when a character is straight for no reason, as if that's not arbitrary too? It's just expected and accepted that a character will be straight because well everyone else is, right? But if we make a character gay, well that's too far! There's no reason! Ridiculous.
And yeah I get that it's Alan Scott and not just some new character, but this is Earth 2. They kind of have free reign to change things up a bit in that book.

#39 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

@skooks: So you DON'T think that DC just advertising the hell out of their decision to make Alan Scott gay and just throwing it out there. Also I have NO problems with gay characters. Batwoman? Renee Montoya? Yeah love both those characters. In fact the ONLY reason I stuck with Young Avengers for so long was because 1: Patriot was pretty awesome and 2: I really enjoyed Hulkling and Wiccan's relationship.

And guess what those four gay characters have in common? They weren't in your face about it!!! Also why did it have to be Alan Scott that was gay? There's Mikaal Tomas, the third Starman. Starman was a member of the JSA, why not add him to the team and make him the leader?

Also for all of DC's claims to be progressive they really aren't. They made Alan Scott gay because he's A Green Lantern. Yes a Green Lantern that has NO ties to the Green Lantern Corps, has a completely different power source for his ring, and is all and all as far from the Green Lantern Corps as you can get in terms of his origin.

Never mind making their new Green Lantern Simon Baz gay, no forget that, let's make a totally unrelated Green Lantern that's in a different universe gay so we can say we have a gay Green Lantern.

Am I the only one who sees a MAJOR flaw in logic here?!

Also the major thing I hate about Earth 2, the ABSOLUTE UNFORGIVABLE THING, is that they just screwed around with the origins too much. Alan Scott? Yeah he's been made a second rate Superman and is also basically the Swamp-Thing of Earth 2. Seriously he ONLY got his powers because up until that point Superman was handling everything fine. Am I the ONLY one who thinks that kind of diminishes his character? I heard a rumor that Superman will be coming back to the Earth 2 universe so what's Alan supposed to do then?!

Also Jay Garrick. Given his speed from the Roman god Mercury. Yeah he's basically five gods short of a Captain Marvel now. Now I'll admit, his original origin isn't the STRONGEST one out there, but they could have come up with something better than a half-assed version of Captain Marvel's origin.

Also on the subject of screwed up origins. This is not Solomon Grundy

THIS IS SOLOMON GRUNDY!!!!!!

Look I shouldn't have to justify why I hate the fact DC has ruined their own universe. I leave you now with a video I hope will shed some light on why I hate this

#40 Posted by dondave (33501 posts) - - Show Bio

Bye

#41 Edited by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

So, you lost faith in DC but think Marvel did a good job with Marvel NOW!? Hilarious.

Bye bye.

#42 Posted by Twentyfive (2747 posts) - - Show Bio

I am on the verge of leaving DC myself. I definitely feel your frustration.

#43 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Dc has decided to simplify history and focus on Barry and Hal and the casualties are many : the history of Jay and Alan, the history of Wally, some old fans of pre-flashpoint, etc. My enjoyment of Flash continues with Barry so business as usual. I grew up on the bronze age Justice League so the loss of the Justice Society is not a big loss for me and I see the current Justice League as the latest version of the old Justice Society. Grundy is a popular villain and there will probably be a main earth Grundy later on.

#44 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by tupiaz (2166 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft:

1. Marvel Now is not a reboot.

2. Spider-man was not only ruined he was destroyed doing OMD.

@smart_dork_dude:

1. This should be a blog. It is not really a subject for debate just you telling us you stop reading DC and why.

#46 Posted by skooks (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude: I like how you didn't actually respond to what I said, you just went off on some massive tirade about a bunch of stuff you hate about the book in general. There's clearly no point debating this with you because your mind is definitely made up.

Can I just say though, if that's honestly true about your lesbian cousin and her partner boycotting all comics forever because of Alan Scott being gay, then that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. But I suspect it's not true and was just a lazy attempt at trying to back up your opinion.

#47 Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

@skooks said:

@smart_dork_dude: I like how you didn't actually respond to what I said, you just went off on some massive tirade about a bunch of stuff you hate about the book in general. There's clearly no point debating this with you because your mind is definitely made up.

Can I just say though, if that's honestly true about your lesbian cousin and her partner boycotting all comics forever because of Alan Scott being gay, then that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. But I suspect it's not true and was just a lazy attempt at trying to back up your opinion.

I answered you to the letter.

Also that's entirely true about what happened with my cousin and her partner. I am serious about this, both of them were disgusted by how this was done. My cousin is an English Lit major and she said and I quote

"Making a characters sexuality known BEFORE someone reads, watches, plays, what have you, is just horrible. Not only will it alienate some people, but it doesn't give anyone the chance to get to know the character and find this out about them. Make the character interesting first and ALL else is secondary. To basically market this character as gay, who from what you're telling me had never been homosexual in any or in any medium before, is just distasteful and really just cheapens the character by making him a sales gimmick for a demographic."

Her words. I don't lie to make myself seem right, idiots do that.

#48 Edited by ccraft (5016 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@ccraft:

1. Marvel Now is not a reboot.

2. Spider-man was not only ruined he was destroyed doing OMD.

@smart_dork_dude:

1. This should be a blog. It is not really a subject for debate just you telling us you stop reading DC and why.

I guess a 'restart' would be a better term.

I think the Doc Ock idea could be an okay story 'arc' for Superior Spiderman, its just I can't read SS without really understanding what happened. And I would have preferred to read SS if it was Peter.

#49 Posted by ssbm (92 posts) - - Show Bio

to be honest with you mate i see where you are coming from your argument makes sense apart from the marvel but but we will leave that alone but i do feel your pain i almost left when static came out and then swiftly got canceled and with the differences of some of my favorite characters (here is looking at you wally) i was at odds with the new 52 from the start if it wasn't for the batman, nightwing and flash tittles i would be long gone. see i thought the main and biggest problem in whole with dc is that they either take to long to pick a side or just never do what i mean is like with the reboot to keep all their history or get rid of it all and start fresh the stayed on the fence to make their characters timeless or generational the sit on the fence and then of course you mentioned it the pride they take when they decide to make a new character or as in your case change a character into a minority they make it all about the fact that he is a minority which is something marvel do much better i mean in the right amount its fine like they way they did it in the static tv show ok maybe they could have toned it down a bit there but the general flow was good what i personally think DC should have done is do a hard reboot and make it it a generational thong because they do sidekicks well but its so good when you see a sidekick grow up and take the mantle at least to me it is and it means all the past stories can be retold in a new light or completely redone using characters we love but that's just me

#50 Edited by Reignmaker (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be honest, I don't blame the OP for leaving DC. I wouldn't blame any long time fan for leaving after what happened.

That all being said, the New 52 is a big reason why I came back to comics. I didn't have a lot of money to throw at comics in the 90's when I first started reading, and it was literally impossible to pick up Batman or Superman without being asked to follow three other books that particular month. That was a big turn-off for me. While I hear it got better in the 00's, it still seemed impossible to pick up one of those pre-52 trade paperbacks and not have a hundred references to other stuff that's not in the comic you're reading. I hated that a lot. If you had a lot of cash to throw around though, I imagine the continuity and detail was enjoyable.