Based on what we've seen so far in Arrow and The Avengers, who seems the be the more impressive archer? I know we haven't seen much of Hawkeye, but I've still heard people say he is the superior archer.
he missed Black Widow at close range, but he did do some stupid shots that didn't really make sense, but since he did them he may technically win in pure archery
Hawkeye hit aliens on sleds zipping through the air at great speed. He generally was lining up another target/looking in a different direction when he fired, yet he wasn't shown to miss. He also knew when to implement trick arrows, much to Loki's dismay. Hawkeye blows Ollie out of the water with actual shooting. H2h is the opposite.
A character that has had around 40 hours of screen time compared to a guy that had maybe 30-35 minutes (counting Thor) hmm I wonder what people will choose...
Personally Hawkeye's my favorite Marvel character but this isn't even close to a fair fight (in terms of screen time). Though Hawkeye has blind shot and never missed, regardless of what Ollie says in Arrow (season 1 at least) he has missed. Still they've showed off more of his skills on the show which is to be expected since it is a show.
@risingbean: @mrnoital: I still take the fights Hawkeye had while brainwashed against known allies with a grain of salt. The deleted scene with Nick Fury suggests he's holding back against him (Could have taken a head shot to kill him) and I would expect the same treatment with Black Widow because of their history.
@mrnoital: nah shooting the lighter before hitting the ground & shooting the phone out of Brutale hands were both better( some others but can't recall ATM).
@feartheliving: yeah, but I feel like I could question how much of it was him, the cube made Selvig smarter, and I was wondering if it made him a better archer, either way I agree Clint has better Archery feats, no matter how stupid I thought it looked, maybe if it was flying the other way, so he saw it but shot once it was out of his sight, but I digress
@mrnoital: Where did it state it made Selvig smarter? The cube showed him things but I don't recall any of the movies saying it raised his IQ in any way.
it "showed" him things(he seemed to continue to understand things like the convergance well after the cube, but whatever), why couldn't it "show" hawkeye how to be a better archer
@risingbean: @mrnoital: I still take the fights Hawkeye had while brainwashed against known allies with a grain of salt. The deleted scene with Nick Fury suggests he's holding back against him (Could have taken a head shot to kill him) and I would expect the same treatment with Black Widow because of their history.
Oh indeed. I'm pretty much with you 100% on all points. I also think @amazingwebhead's gif should be the thread closer.
Edit Feartheliving, Ollie gets the h2h nod simply because Clint lacks feats at this point. The few he has were all while brainwashed and you know how CV is feats driven. Maybe Age of Ultron will help him catch up a bit?
@mrnoital: Because granting insight on cosmic events and working of the cube is different then pure skill, plus I'm sure if the cube did anything that boosted Hawkeye Black Widow would have pointed it out, it's stretching to assume it did so. Also Selvig isn't a dumb guy he was working with shield and had plenty of data they provided him. If anything the cube made him nuts.
Edit Not to mention he was working with the Cube, Hawkeye really wasn't he was pretty much just brainwashed by the sceptre while Selvig worked to unlock the cube's power with Shield and Loki.
@scouterv: Again that comes the argument of 35-40 hours of screentime vs 35-40 minutes of screentime. (Sure not all of that is them fighting but it would be silly to base it off of more shot = better archer when of course he'd have more shots he has his own show.)
@feartheliving: really? before the incident he couldn't understand the cube, he said it's behaving, but he didn't know how to do anything with it, after he was able to make the making that made a portal that brought the chitauri, and was able to install the safeguard of loki's staff, before that he was barely classifying the energy signature it gave off
@scouterv: Again that comes the argument of 35-40 hours of screentime vs 35-40 minutes of screentime. (Sure not all of that is them fighting but it would be silly to base it off of more shot = better archer when of course he'd have more shots he has his own show.)
Which makes the whole thing a little suspect.
If Hawkeye gets in one amazing, impossible, unbelievable, and a little lucky shot off does that make him a better shot than Arrow if he consistantly gets bullseye after bullseye after bullseye? Or does Arrow hitting easy targets constantly make him a better shot than Hawkeye missing a tricky foe, but managing to get in a killshot later?
@scouterv: Again that comes the argument of 35-40 hours of screentime vs 35-40 minutes of screentime. (Sure not all of that is them fighting but it would be silly to base it off of more shot = better archer when of course he'd have more shots he has his own show.)
Which makes the whole thing a little suspect.
If Hawkeye gets in one amazing, impossible, unbelievable, and a little lucky shot off does that make him a better shot than Arrow if he consistantly gets bullseye after bullseye after bullseye? Or does Arrow hitting easy targets constantly make him a better shot than Hawkeye missing a tricky foe, but managing to get in a killshot later?
I don't think either archer has made a lucky shot.
@mrnoital: I believe he's using what he already learned and theorizing with that. We see him obsessing about it in the mental clinic. (Either way I'll have to rewatch Thor 2 to remember better)
If you have a specific scene that clarifies this then by all means point it out though. As is however I don't think there is really any evidence Hawkeye was improved in any way by the cube. I mean I could be wrong but it wasn't mentioned in Avengers at all so unless they bring it up in Ultron I'm in the mind that those are his skills.
@mr_clockwork91: Made this, not very amazing quality and doesn't include the explosion but it's something at least.
@feartheliving: at the beginning of the avengers they were just trying to understand the cube, then he learn a bunch, and he wasn't put in the asylum until that morning where he got naked at stonehenge, it seemed to take place in a day or so
@mrnoital: They knew it was portal. Hawkeye even says "Maybe we can't open it from our end." Fury then says "Our end?" in which Hawkeye response "Yeah, it's a door right? Doors open from both sides."
So they knew at least it was a doorway and that it was an energy source. That being said nothing you've said hints at Hawkeye gaining archery abilities.
@feartheliving: mostly cause he doesn't have a single feat before that, but you're right, the only thing they directly said the cube told him was his next target
@bgibs13390: I don't think so, wouldn't the other parts of the huge metal helicarrier draw it to them and away from the generator he was aiming for? Naw looks like he shot it into the wind and had it carry the arrow to it's target plus the little anchors would suggest that they're keeping the arrow in place if the whole arrow was magnetic I don't think that would be necessary.
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