Kingpin final speech in daredevil netflix

I think most people that liked the series would say one of the reasons the series is good is Kingpin.

But I rarely see mentioned how the last speech ruin the character

@waterd103: it was him becoming the kingpin

He didn't really believe he was good he was trying to hang on to his last bits of humanity and lying to himself and then he realized who he truly was

That's his evolution as a character

It would make no sense if for upcoming seasons he continued to do horrible things but somehow just thought he was good lol

It's less him going, "Well, already hurt a bunch of people, might as well keep doing it!" And more, "I tried to help these people. I've sacrificed SO much, so MANY, worked so hard for so long, and for what? My best friend, murdered. My name and fortune, slandered and dirtied. My fiance will soon leave without me, and I'll spend the rest of my life in a cell... After all I've done, this is what the people I tried to save do to me... They just... keep... kicking... They deserved what they had, not to be saved. So I'll give them what they deserve."

It´s a nonsensical evolutional, irrealistic, and bad. That is now even close at how human mind works, it breaks suspension of disbelief even more than daredevil unnatural resilence.

Jonsmith, if that would have been his speech or similar, ok, but the speech had NOTHING to do with that, its ok that since you liked the series, you want to believe he made a reasonable evolution like you propose. You are deluding yourself if you think that is even close to what the speech meant.

One of the running themes and moral questions throughout the series for both Matt and Wilson was the question of whether they were "good men". Both men pursued their missions to better the city in ways that were morally questionable and both men struggled with the idea of whether they enjoyed the violence and pain they caused others. Fisk told both himself and Vanessa that he did not enjoy cruelty for cruelty's sake.

My interpretation of his final speech was his admittance that his motivation of bettering the city had been a delusion. He did enjoy cruelty and he did enjoy hurting people and he had been fooling himself the entire time by aspiring towards moral superiority.

It's a very interesting development and one that is not unrealistic (unrealistic, not irrealistic) in the slightest. People can often delude themselves into thinking that they have moral justification for certain amoral actions, when in reality, they are carrying out those actions for personal gain or simply because they enjoy doing such things. I know I've done the same and convinced myself that there was a moral reason for doing something that I knew was wrong. Fisk seemed to genuinely believe the moral justification for his actions, though even his faith was shaken until he met Vanessa (with the cufflinks of his father symbolising the doubts he had over his own morality). He realised that though he had been telling himself and everyone around him that he had been striving towards a goal of bettering the city, a part of him was simply carrying out these cruel actions and violence due to lingering resentment and desire for revenge against his father, who he saw as a representation of the worst of Hell's Kitchen.

@waterd103: That in no way ruined the character. That was a moment of stark clarity. He always knew even from the beginning, that although he meant well for his city, that his methods were unsavory and criminal. But he always viewed it as a cleansing of the city for it to be reborn. The end justifies the means, but in this moment he realized he was not the good guy. He was not the Samaritan. He was truly evil because of the means. In this moment, he truly becomes The Kingpin. In this moment, he accepts who he is and has something that many people never do. A true, unbiased vision of who he is.

I think it was not an unrealistic turn as he acted selfish the whole time. He stated that he killed his father, not for his mother, but for himself. All these things he did (creating this secret group to run, the apartments fiasco, paying people off to let him have free reign, etc.) were ALL so he could selfishly prosper and get whatever he wants. During the story, he truly convinced himself that it was for the "good of the city", but the realization in the back of that convoy was really just him thinking "screw the city, its been about me all along". He lost everything in his selfishness, and wasn't sorry that he lost it (truly), he was more upset that he was caught and wouldn't get everything HE worked for. He wasn't the messiah of the city, he was the prey that eats the small to keep living and hunting. from his dad on, he always had been.

Just my two cents..

He always seemed like a bad guy to me...

@dernman: He was. He just refused to admit it; as he believed it made him like his father.

@guardiandevil83: Funny if you think about it because his father didn't think of himself that way either.

@dernman: Exactly. He just thought he was doing what was necessary. Your basic sociopathic behavior.

Also it just shows that Wilson had already become a tougher, more secessful version of his dad way before he acknowledged his true colors.