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#1 Posted by kamrenamir (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Hello everyone, I have a question. When I was strolling the internet I came by a post about DC someone in the comments said "DC is weak, Joker would be dead in a second if he came to Marvel" Now this intrigued me because when I thought about it I was a little iffy about weather I agree. So I would like to know what you think.

#2 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

The Joker isnt a top tier threat to the DC U at large. Any hero above Batman, Green Arrow, and their like should put down Joker without a challenge, but thats just not how story-telling works.

Now, I could see Punisher just blowing his brains out unceremoniously.

#3 Posted by kcjr (323 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah, depends who he runs into. If Batman killed people, Joker would've been dead long ago. The same can be said about most villians though.

#4 Edited by batmannflash (6224 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel U has less strict codes against killing. If the Joker was in Marvel, he'd be killed by Wolverine or Punisher. But that's only being realistic.

Since Joker's too popular a character, even Marvel wouldn't kill him off, at least not permanently.

#5 Posted by silkyballfro94 (1775 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker would get away with a few good plans and murders. But after that....he'd have a price on his head or Punisher himself tortures him for hours on end and then slowly kills him.

#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (42845 posts) - - Show Bio

He would quickly end up on Punisher's radar, and have his head blown off by him.

#7 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher would put him out like a light.

Seriously, the only thing not keeping Joker dead is Batman's moral code. Without that Joker is as good as dead.

#8 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously the Joker is a walking plot-device. He is only free to do what he wants, because the writers are protecting him with plot-power, otherwise a guy like him wouldn't survive for very long.
Batman may have his moral codex and refuse to kill the Joker, but that can't be said for all the other psychopaths in Gotham City, who for some reason fear the Joker, instead of ripping his head off, when the opportunity is there. And the same applies for the policemen in Gotham, who most likely lost partners in fights against the Joker, or are simply pissed off, because he kills people on a daily basis - no one ever really pulls out a gun and shoots him, when the opportunity is there.

Joker in the Marvel universe would not really work, because he would be even more annoying of a character. Why wouldn't he work? Well, he would need even MORE plot-protection.
Joker is a guy without super-powers and he is lucky to mostly face other people, without superpowers in Gotham, while the Marvel Universe doesn't have that many power-houses and they concentrate more on street-levelers and mid high metahumans. How would Joker compete with that? What if Joker was living in New York and came across Daredevil, or the Punisher? Would they normally spare his life, after seeing what he does? What if he encounters one of Spider-Man's super-powered villains? Few of them actually have their own kind of morals / moral codex and I could see them making him pay, if he runs around and randomly kills people.

The amount of plot-protection Joker would need in the Marvel universe, which is full with people with super-powers would be ridiculouuuus! He would either be dead within a week, or he would be simply too annoying of a character, where it's obvious that he only prevails, because the plot is protecting him.

(Of course all of that can be stated for many other characters in comics - I realized that you have to be careful around here in the General Section, when it comes to bashing someone's favorite character :-)

#9 Edited by mikex20 (2769 posts) - - Show Bio

He should be dead by now in the DC Universe. If not by hero, then by a villain looking to increase his own status.

#10 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

OK - Joker is a master-mind villain though, so he'd give A LOT of their heroes a run for their money. Also I reckon if Marvel had him, he wouldn't be a regular human - they'd have him as a mutant or something so he couldn't be killed.

And this is one of the primary differences between the two IMO. DC just have a "no killing" rule for their heroes when they don't want to waste a great villain. Marvel however give them regenerative powers or something else so they physically can't be killed. Both are kind of cheap ways to get around it, but personally I prefer the DC way since it at least makes the heroes more "heroic" IMO. Someone deciding to be judge, jury and executioner, while cool for stories, isn't the sort of person we would actually want in the real world. Comic book heroes are a fantasy and I like ones that are inspiring personally.

DC and Marvel even touched on this difference themselves when they did the JLA/Avengers cross-over. Anyways... that's my 2 cents.

#11 Posted by Bierschneeman (4020 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah he probably wouldve died.... like 5 times already by now, but like every other character that Marvel kills off, they'd find some moronic way to bring them back to life.

#12 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

#13 Posted by Havenless (1351 posts) - - Show Bio
Someone deciding to be judge, jury and executioner, while cool for stories, isn't the sort of person we would actually want in the real world.

Batman has caught Joker numerous times, knowing he will eventually break out of prison and kill hundreds of people in the future, and he doesn't do anything to change that. This is not the kind of person I want in the real world.

Punisher would kill a lot of people, some may not entirely deserve it, but it'll end up being a much smaller deathcount than if he kept allowing his mass-murdering nemeses to live.

#14 Edited by Outside_85 (9212 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say Marvel is 'stronger' than DC in this regard, mostly because it has it's own share of rampaging sociopaths and genocidal lunatics that continues to be left alive regardless of how fair it would be to kill them. Thing for both is that it's never really a good idea to do so, since villains tend to be better while alive.

But for your entertainment:

#15 Edited by WaveMotionCannon (5471 posts) - - Show Bio

@bierschneeman: at least in Marvel they'd try to kill him to put an end to his madness.

#16 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

@wishiwassuperman said:
Someone deciding to be judge, jury and executioner, while cool for stories, isn't the sort of person we would actually want in the real world.

Batman has caught Joker numerous times, knowing he will eventually break out of prison and kill hundreds of people in the future, and he doesn't do anything to change that. This is not the kind of person I want in the real world.

Punisher would kill a lot of people, some may not entirely deserve it, but it'll end up being a much smaller deathcount than if he kept allowing his mass-murdering nemeses to live.

OR, comic book prisons could be better? Or (if it was the real world) depending on the state a death penalty might even apply anyway. My point was heroes who decide who is worth being left to live and who doesn't deserve to live isn't the type of hero I like.

#17 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

#18 Posted by SonOfHellstorm (230 posts) - - Show Bio

The Joker isnt a top tier threat to the DC U at large. Any hero above Batman, Green Arrow, and their like should put down Joker without a challenge, but thats just not how story-telling works.

Now, I could see Punisher just blowing his brains out unceremoniously.

You mean like this:

#19 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

The Joker isnt a top tier threat to the DC U at large. Any hero above Batman, Green Arrow, and their like should put down Joker without a challenge, but thats just not how story-telling works.

Now, I could see Punisher just blowing his brains out unceremoniously.

Read this?

#20 Posted by SonOfHellstorm (230 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

Really? One post up please.

#21 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

Really? One post up please.

That isn't canon.

#22 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Seriously? Compared to top level people like Punisher and Batman, Joker is toast.

In Hush, Batman was about to kill Joker because he killed one of Bruce's close childhood friend.

It took Catwoman, and Commissioner Gordon to try talk him out of it, with Joker constantly saying "I'm innocent"


#23 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: Punisher isn't top level. He gets beaten soundly by anyone along the lines of Daredevil or Cap in hand-to-hand, and the extent of his resources is military grade weaponry. Joker would eat him for breakfast.

#24 Posted by SonOfHellstorm (230 posts) - - Show Bio

@sonofhellstorm said:

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

Really? One post up please.

That isn't canon.

Well of course it's not. Marvel and DC are two different universes. It's more of a what would happen, if the Joker faced off with the Punisher. You said the Punisher would be dead, but i beg to differ, and so does the author.

#25 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: Punisher isn't top level. He gets beaten soundly by anyone along the lines of Daredevil or Cap in hand-to-hand, and the extent of his resources is military grade weaponry. Joker would eat him for breakfast.

Show me Daredevil or Cap taking down Punisher like some C level villain, while Punisher's job is to kill mass murdering maniacs, and has succeeded alot. Punsher ends him easily, you're going off of no proof, when Joker has been beat constantly by people using non-lethal weapons.

#26 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@sonofhellstorm said:

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

Really? One post up please.

That isn't canon.

Well of course it's not. Marvel and DC are two different universes. It's more of a what would happen, if the Joker faced off with the Punisher. You said the Punisher would be dead, but i beg to differ, and so does the author.

Right, but I'm just saying it's not like that story is evidence as to why Punisher would kill the Joker. It essentially doesn't count. Realistically there's nothing to suggest Frank can handle the Joker.

#27 Edited by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: Punisher isn't top level. He gets beaten soundly by anyone along the lines of Daredevil or Cap in hand-to-hand, and the extent of his resources is military grade weaponry. Joker would eat him for breakfast.

Show me Daredevil or Cap taking down Punisher like some C level villain, while Punisher's job is to kill mass murdering maniacs, and has succeeded alot. Punsher ends him easily, you're going off of no proof, when Joker has been beat constantly by people using non-lethal weapons.

Honestly I can't remember where I saw the scans. But Daredevil can very soundly defeat Punisher. Punishers self-monologue during the fight was something like "he always beats me" "I can't win against him"

@god_spawn Would you happen to have the scans of the fight I'm talking about? Cheers

#28 Posted by SonOfHellstorm (230 posts) - - Show Bio

@sonofhellstorm said:

@i_like_swords said:

@sonofhellstorm said:

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

Really? One post up please.

That isn't canon.

Well of course it's not. Marvel and DC are two different universes. It's more of a what would happen, if the Joker faced off with the Punisher. You said the Punisher would be dead, but i beg to differ, and so does the author.

Right, but I'm just saying it's not like that story is evidence as to why Punisher would kill the Joker. It essentially doesn't count. Realistically there's nothing to suggest Frank can handle the Joker.

Nothing? Machine gun, rocket launcher, can of gasoline and a match. As to why the Punisher would kill the Joker, it's what he does. As to how, special forces training, and years of hunting down the scum of the Marvel Universe. Yeah the Joker is a psyco, but so is Frank.

#29 Edited by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux said:

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: Punisher isn't top level. He gets beaten soundly by anyone along the lines of Daredevil or Cap in hand-to-hand, and the extent of his resources is military grade weaponry. Joker would eat him for breakfast.

Show me Daredevil or Cap taking down Punisher like some C level villain, while Punisher's job is to kill mass murdering maniacs, and has succeeded alot. Punsher ends him easily, you're going off of no proof, when Joker has been beat constantly by people using non-lethal weapons.

Honestly I can't remember where I saw the scans. But Daredevil can very soundly defeat Punisher. Punishers self-monologue during the fight was something like "he always beats me" "I can't win against him"

@god_spawn Would you happen to have the scans of the fight I'm talking about? Cheers

Stop, just stop. You come into this thread with baseless claims, having no proof of Joker's ability to beat Punisher easily, with you're entire argument coming down to >Joker would eat him for breakfast.

Also you're claims for Punisher are completely wrong.

Has gone toe to toe with Daredevil

Has shot the web slingers off if Spiderman, and still fought him.

Tagged speedsters.

Frank's has military, assassination training and has taken down way more deadlier people then Joker is.

Joker gets a shiny bullet in his brain, at least try a little harder when you troll the thread.

#30 Edited by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@sonofhellstorm said:

@i_like_swords said:

@sonofhellstorm said:

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: @wolverine08: @silkyballfro94: @batmannflash: @deaditegonzo:

Frank wouldn't be capable of taking down Joker. He's never dealt with any villain on Jokers level. In his most recent showings he's been dealing with at best Hydra agents and Hand ninjas. Normally he's taking down fodder organised criminals. This is even coming from a Punisher fan.

Batman has all his surveillance tech, utility belt.. he's got every gadget you could ask for to track down the Joker and take him down, yet he's still not managed to do it permanently.

What does Frank have? His normal game is to grab a police officer and drill him for information. If anything he'll pull up a double agent that Joker has sent into the police, who will lead Frank into a trap to die. Remember, Joker doesn't have the same creepy relationship he has with Batman with Frank, so if anyone is going to die, it's Punisher.

Really? One post up please.

That isn't canon.

Well of course it's not. Marvel and DC are two different universes. It's more of a what would happen, if the Joker faced off with the Punisher. You said the Punisher would be dead, but i beg to differ, and so does the author.

Right, but I'm just saying it's not like that story is evidence as to why Punisher would kill the Joker. It essentially doesn't count. Realistically there's nothing to suggest Frank can handle the Joker.

Nothing? Machine gun, rocket launcher, can of gasoline and a match. As to why the Punisher would kill the Joker, it's what he does. As to how, special forces training, and years of hunting down the scum of the Marvel Universe. Yeah the Joker is a psyco, but so is Frank.

You really think the Joker can't deal with someone using a machine gun or a rocket launcher?

Hmm, let's see. For all his special forces training and experience, he still loses soundly to people like Daredevil in a fight, and has had RED VULTURE get the jump on him. If Punisher is having trouble with D-listers like Red Vulture, and spends all his time shutting down drug cartels, there is no way he is in the Jokers league. I'm a massive fan of his comics and I like the level he is at, but he isn't top tier.

And no.. Frank isn't a psycho in my opinion. He's just very set in his ways.

#31 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: If you actually pay attention to the scan you just posted, Daredevil was kicking his ass.

And yes, I've seen those scans plenty of times. I'm not faulting his marksmanship. He simply lacks the resources and detective skills to take down someone like Joker.

And seriously, stop talking down to me saying I'm coming at you with "baseless claims". Anyone with their head screwed on properly would agree that Punisher couldn't take down Joker. You're the one plucking scans out of bloody respect threads. You've probably read neither character, or have taken the time to research their capabilities. So get off my back. It's ultimately my opinion vs yours anyway.

#33 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Two words

Jason

last name

Todd

Answer:

No.

I don't follow.. you mean the incident with the crowbar?

#34 Edited by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I'm setting him and punisher on equal terms in a DC manner though, and that he was able to thwart the joker.

Also Harley was able to beat him too :X so i wouldn't rank him so highly in close combat. (given she's really acrobatic).

Courtesy to Joygirl

#35 Edited by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@ximpossibrux: If you actually pay attention to the scan you just posted, Daredevil was kicking his ass.

Actually they were going toe to toe, and it showed how good of Punisher's marksmanship is. He can tag DD's batons with his pistol, which would go in Joker's head easily.


And yes, I've seen those scans plenty of times. I'm not faulting his marksmanship. He simply lacks the resources and detective skills to take down someone like Joker.


No, he regularly takes down Mafias' and has handled mass murderers before. Gone against advanced masters of combat with nothing but his guns and explosives. And Joker would be dead in DC universe if it wasn't for Batman, who by the way uses non-lethal weapons.


And seriously, stop talking down to me saying I'm coming at you with "baseless claims". Anyone with their head screwed on properly would agree that Punisher couldn't take down Joker.


Wow, yet another baseless claim, with no evidence to back it up. I also love how you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong and dumb. It's hilarious.


You're the one plucking scans out of bloody respect threads. You've probably read neither character, or have taken the time to research their capabilities. So get off my back. It's ultimately my opinion vs yours anyway.


Wow, i'm using respect threads for what they are intended to be used for, who would of guessed? And clearly you did not research Punisher and is jumping on some Joker fanboy train.

You have posted no scans, or feats to make even an argument. With a handful of ludicrous statements, that aren't even relevant to the thread. If you're going to have an opinion, at least back it up. Which you fail to do.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ it was also fun to debunk you're little DD vs Punisher claim, you bore me.

#36 Edited by BloodTalon (440 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: nice scans

But The Joker would survive the same way The King Pin dose, the plot says so. If the Hellfire kids can stay alive then the Joker could.

#37 Posted by HeckTate (1269 posts) - - Show Bio

The Joker's not supposed to be about power, the point of his character is his instability. He's capable of doing anything you wouldn't expect and his main operating motives are confusion and insanity. The Joker's not out to beat up superheroes, rob banks, or terrorize citizens, he's out to mess with people's minds. His main goal is just to turn the good guys against themselves.

#38 Edited by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux:

You say I throw around baseless claims when you haven't posted any scans of Punisher taking down someone on Jokers level? Yeah okay

When did I say that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong? You're talking shit now.

HAHAHA I'M A JOKER FANBOY? Even though I have very seldom read anything with Joker in it, and own 10x as much Punisher content? Sure, go with that. I'm completely unbiased in my opinion.

Also note my use of the word OPINION. I didn't say I was right or anyone was wrong.

I bore you? Good, I'm not hear to entertain anyone, much less a cocky asshole behind a keyboard like you.

#39 Posted by Hawkguy (572 posts) - - Show Bio

Whats with people thinking Punisher could take down Joker? This isn't a staredown in the middle of the street, you're talking about Punisher tracking down Joker and overcoming any and all of his tricks. Not to mention the fact that Joker isn't one to do a solo job, he could easily call upon help from a lot of the other villains, not to mention an army of thugs.

The reason Joker is Batman's villain is because his schemes aren't feats of physical strength or physical skill, which oddly enough, is what the majority of Marvel heroes deal with.

#40 Edited by Joygirl (20045 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokergeist: @diredrill: Mayday mayday I need backup, we have a Code Purple Joker Underestimation here; I repeat, Code Purple. Large numbers of people who have no idea what they're talking about, subjects should be considered armed and dangerous. Joy out.

#41 Edited by w0nd (3524 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlock360 said:

@i_like_swords: I'm setting him and punisher on equal terms in a DC manner though, and that he was able to thwart the joker.

Also Harley was able to beat him too :X so i wouldn't rank him so highly in close combat. (given she's really acrobatic).

Courtesy to Joygirl

that was after she got upgraded i think. Healing, strength and agility, and you can see that immunity to his toxins in the flowers

#42 Edited by Joygirl (20045 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: @i_like_swords: Correct. That is not a low showing for Joker, it is a high showing for Quinn.

#43 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker still got it handed to him by punisher, canon or not. It was and still is a possible situation.

#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#45 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

The Joker isnt a top tier threat to the DC U at large. Any hero above Batman, Green Arrow, and their like should put down Joker without a challenge, but thats just not how story-telling works.

Now, I could see Punisher just blowing his brains out unceremoniously.

You mean like this:

Precise!

#46 Posted by i_like_swords (15023 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: This fight in particular?

Looks like the right one but I remembered it ending with Daredevil mashing Franks face into the ground and Frank thought something like "I can never win against him"

Still, it's enough to say that Daredevil is the superior hand-to-hand fighter to Frank.

#47 Posted by kamrenamir (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow these are some interesting debates.

#48 Posted by The Stegman (24661 posts) - - Show Bio

I think a prepped Joker could get away with a few key kills, he might take down some street level heroes..but once the other heroes get wind of him doing this..he's going down.

#49 Posted by RustyRoy (12812 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker would kill half of the street levelers including Punisher, Marvel will also give him some deal with the devil stuff so he can't be killed or bring him back every time he dies. This just makes me think why do people say Marvel is more grounded than DC?

#50 Posted by SonOfHellstorm (230 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@i_like_swords: This fight in particular?

Looks like the right one but I remembered it ending with Daredevil mashing Franks face into the ground and Frank thought something like "I can never win against him"

Still, it's enough to say that Daredevil is the superior hand-to-hand fighter to Frank.

I don't know whether Frank either said or thought that he could "never" beat Daredevil. But we all have self doubts at times. Until we find out we can overcome those odds. And as you will see, the Punisher has indeed beat Daredevil. Superior hand to hand? That depends on how you define superior. Superior speed, superior skill, and superior senses? Sure Daredevil has got the Punisher beat there. But that does not always win the fight. There something to be said about superior strategy, and superior experience. Case and point below.

Don't even get me started on what he has done to Wolverine and Spidey.