#1 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

You see, I don't get why this dude's so popular. He's a crazy guy in clown make up, granted he plays the mind games pretty well. But I just don't see how he's an interesting character. Definitely not the greatest villain of all time. Btw, I feel the same about Carnage. He's just a psycho obsessed with killing. Where's the interesting character there???

IMHO, characters like Bane and Kingpin are far more interesting as villains, because they have interesting back stories as well as motives. They're more interesting and cool overall IMO...

Whereas Joker/Carnage are just "arrrrrr, I'm crazy.....I'm nutcase I have to kill!! Hahahahahahahaha, I'm evil!!"

#2 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

uuuu you're going to get so much hate and 'you're a troll' and 'joker's awesome because he's batman opposite' (he isnt)

#3 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not being a troll, how am I being a troll??

#4 Edited by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62:I 100% agree. I enjoy Joker/Canage a lot but in the end that just makes them villains, not excellent. Villains. That's why I support Ra's Al Ghul as Batman's Best Villain because there is the psychological element.

#5 Edited by mightyrearranger (1519 posts) - - Show Bio

So you're a fan of "nurture" over "nature" in your villains? That's cool too. Personally, I'm a big Carnage fan because of his simplicity. Cletus is the monster we fear in our everyday lives. The sociopath who has no method to his madness, he's just always been evil and always will be, no matter what.

Bane's great to read for totally different reasons. He has his backstory and motives for the specific crimes he commits. He has a code of ethics to some degree (as does Captain Cold, my personal favorite villain), and I think his/Kingpin's notion of "intimidation" is just different than that of a serial killer like Cletus. Cyclically, heroes are often created to strike fear in organized crime, criminals become criminals without fear of psychopaths, instead hiring them to intimidate the heroes in a way that they are personally unable to.

Now what separates The Joker from the above examples (and the above cycle) is that he's a true wild card. He has a real lack of origin story, the reason of which is clouded by what may be a lie or may just be insanity. Could have been born evil, could have gone insane after his discoloration. And the best part is that we'll never know for certain; he's as mysterious as Batman, but in a more open and public way. Then there's the subtle (or not-so-subtle) hints throughout DC fiction that he's too in love with Bruce to actually kill him. And I think that's a really key point too. Norman Osborn wants to torture Peter Parker for personal gain, Kingpin organizes a crime empire for personal gain, Zoom has a really awesome, but still egocentric notion that he can make The Flash better by being his adversary. However, Batman and Joker have a bond between them that's different from any other hero/villain pair, because they know each other more intimately than anyone else in their lives ever will or can.

#6 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18011 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is the joker so popular?

because while most villains have a define element in their characteristics ( for example abomination is driven by his competition with the hulk), joker is truly a character that just cannot be defined, sometimes what he does makes no sense and thats an interesting element. he re-invents himself over and over so he isn't a character to get bored with.

also joker is batmans opposite, because he tests bruce in everything he believes in, which makes him the ultimate bat villain.

#7 Edited by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you only seen the movie? Cause it's not make up.

#8 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

^ obviously I know that, but that's what it's meant to look like.

#9 Posted by lilben42 (2530 posts) - - Show Bio

The animated series and animated movies got me into the joker. He is just funny and does the weirdest crap.

#10 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

All characters sound uninteresting when you generalize them like that.

#11 Posted by RustyRoy (12001 posts) - - Show Bio

He's the best of his kind, the craziest nutcase mass murderer who can give the smartest people on earth a run for money. And he doesn't do it for power or money, he does it because he loves it.

#12 Posted by TheCannon (18304 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. I still like Joker (and Carnage), but there really isn't any more to him than killing people for no reason. Characters like Ra's al Ghul, Hush, and Bane are better.

#13 Edited by Saren (25616 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

Whereas Joker/Carnage are just "arrrrrr, I'm crazy.....I'm nutcase I have to kill!! Hahahahahahahaha, I'm evil!!"

Is it really a mystery as to why you think the character is overrated when this is the sum extent of your ability to describe him? Joker is nothing like this.

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#14 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

^ I was exaggerating, that's not his personality but it's what his character is all about.

#15 Posted by mightyrearranger (1519 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62: See, I don't think he "has to kill" as much as he "has to do something drastic to get Batman's attention/make him think".

#16 Edited by lilben42 (2530 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by mightyrearranger (1519 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@theacidskull: What are all the things Joker tests Batman in?

Bruce Wayne is notoriously bad at his multiplication tables...

#18 Edited by TDK_1997 (14690 posts) - - Show Bio

His actions can't be predicted,he is something that can not be understood by anyone and that is the thing most people like about him.That's the reason why I love him and what makes him interesting for me.

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#19 Posted by ccraft (5202 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you, but Joker is still pretty awesome. Joker is still my favorite, but his spot is going to be taken by Master Shredder soon! There about tied for my number 1 spot.

3 cool things of Shredder that makes him badass!

  • Master strategist
  • Master Martial Artist
  • Has an army of Ninjas

Shredder > Ra's Al Ghul

#20 Posted by Bruxae (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that Joker is very overrated, but he IS a very good villain, just an overrated such.

#21 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: so you can count on the joker on being unpredictable. isnt that predictable?

#22 Posted by TDK_1997 (14690 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: so you can count on the joker on being unpredictable. isnt that predictable?

You can say that knowing that a certain guy to be unpredictable is actually prediactable but you still don't know exactly what is going to happen.Most of the times when Joker is writen well and in character you can only have suggestion on what is going to happen but you can't be 100% sure.

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#23 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123 said:

All characters sound uninteresting when you generalize them like that.

^Yep.

Especially the Joker, since he's largely a thematic villain.

#24 Edited by papabearg4d (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

@thetimestreamer said:

@tdk_1997: so you can count on the joker on being unpredictable. isnt that predictable?

You can say that knowing that a certain guy to be unpredictable is actually prediactable but you still don't know exactly what is going to happen.Most of the times when Joker is writen well and in character you can only have suggestion on what is going to happen but you can't be 100% sure.

The thing I really like where it has also been mentioned in comic books is that you can only "react" to Joker. You can speculate his next move and that is about it.

#25 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Joker and Lex are probably smarter than Batman. I don't believe Joker is crazy and Joker just has less common desires such as killing random people or desire to preach about life being a joke. The Joker might even be right and not Batman. Batman's views of the human species is too simplistic and is as dumb as that of any child.

#26 Posted by ladymastermind (96 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I don't get why everyone thinks the Joker is so great either. I guess people think wackos running around with laughing gas and machine guns is just the bee's knees. Oh well, an over-rated villain for an over-rated super hero.

#27 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

All characters sound uninteresting when you generalize them like that.

this

#28 Posted by Teerack (5835 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically anything tied with Batman is over rated. Not that it isn't good, but people think it's a lot better then it is.

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#29 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Joker in the animated and Brave and the Bold. But in the comics I hate him along with Batman at how writers have to write everyone around them to be jobbed. Take Salivation Run a terrible mini to give DC an excuse to kill off a high number of villains one villain Psimon was killed by Joker by a rock, a rock. So this powerful psychic that has fought the Titans was killed by Joker with rock. Thats pretty much the point at how horrid they have wrote Joker recently. Hell I hate the fact in Injustice Joker is the cause of Superman's descent. What they could use his other big name villains to screw him over? So yes I think Joker is overrated in the comics.

#30 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Overexposure is all and the fact that the average fan seems into that street level stuff

plus edginess sells

#31 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

Basically anything tied with Batman is over rated. Not that it isn't good, but people think it's a lot better then it is.

True, I love Batman to death but sadly I agree. He's not the be all/end all of superheroes like most folks think. If anyone is gonna get that title, it's Superman.

#32 Edited by mightyrearranger (1519 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@teerack said:

Basically anything tied with Batman is over rated. Not that it isn't good, but people think it's a lot better then it is.

True, I love Batman to death but sadly I agree. He's not the be all/end all of superheroes like most folks think. If anyone is gonna get that title, it's Superman.

Haha, wasn't that the same reason people started flocking to Batman many moons back? Superman's mainstream popularity and overexposure?

Regardless, Zoom ftw. He makes comics betterrrrrrrr.

#33 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Not trying to change anyone else's opinion of him, but I just don't see how a wacko with no motives, or backstory and just kills because he's nuts can be called the greatest villain of all time.

I think he's still a GOOD villain, but NOT the greatest of all time.

#34 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123 said:

All characters sound uninteresting when you generalize them like that.

#35 Edited by Uncanny_Doom (414 posts) - - Show Bio

I typically prefer intelligent villains with clear motivation, but I love Joker. He's like the quintessential psychotic bad guy. Nothing about him is really clear and that's a scary thing.

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#36 Edited by Jnr6Lil (7704 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke proves that Joker is more complex than just a psychopath. Not to mention his unique relationship with Batman, with both refusing to kill each other, in fear of losing their purpose.

#37 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7820 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62:

Yes, he's overrated just like Batman is overrated, but i'm not going to let a few loud fan-boys color my perception of a cool character.

For me the main reason is because he has a death wish, but he doesn't want anyone but Batman to kill him, and in doing this Bruce will violate everything he stands for. And Joker will win.

It's twisted but kind of sophisticated at the same time. That's what makes him a cool villain for me.

#38 Posted by entropy_aegis (15205 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker suffers from overexposure and hack writers.

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#39 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie said:

@jj62:

Yeah, he's overrated just like Batman is overrated, but i'm not going to let a few loud fan-boys color my perception of a cool character.

For me the main reason is because he has a death wish, but he doesn't want anyone but Batman to kill him, and in doing this Bruce will violate everything he stands for. And Joker will win.

It's twisted but kind of sophisticated at the same time. That's what makes him a cool villain for me.

Pretty much this, but I'll take it a couple steps further. Behind the Joker's CrAzY exterior, is a deep multilayer fabric of sophistication and deviousness. The Joker is more than he appears, and the most memorable Joker stories are able to capture this. He also represents the absolute worst in humanity. The dark depths that any of us could sink to.

And let's not discount his flamboyant style of criminal activity. His ideas are big. They're flashy. Sometimes even darkly funny. Like David Grohl, The Joker only writes hits. This isn't someone that's going to merely stick a knife in your back or tell some hitman to knock a person off. He could do that, mind you. The Joker's intellect is such that he doesn't necessarily need to be hands-on, but he often continues to do so by choice. He's a guy who likes getting his hands dirty.

This is a guy who has gassed kindergarten classes, tortured multiple victims in the most grotesque ways imaginable, and has killed/scarred multiple meaningful characters within the DCU. In comics, his rap sheet has no equal. He's the greatest comic book villain ever created. Doctor Doom is close, but still second place in my opinion.

#40 Edited by comicace3 (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on the characters you like some people think there is more to joker than his psychotic behavior. He is the perfect villain for batman because he is the only one that can push him to his mental limits. I don't think any other villain has done that..... That's pretty much all I can say.

#41 Edited by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

A Death in the Family and Killing Joke are two reasons why he's so famous, and rightfully so.

#42 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7704 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie said:

@jj62:

Yeah, he's overrated just like Batman is overrated, but i'm not going to let a few loud fan-boys color my perception of a cool character.

For me the main reason is because he has a death wish, but he doesn't want anyone but Batman to kill him, and in doing this Bruce will violate everything he stands for. And Joker will win.

It's twisted but kind of sophisticated at the same time. That's what makes him a cool villain for me.

Pretty much this, but I'll take it a couple steps further. Behind the Joker's CrAzY exterior, is a deep multilayer fabric of sophistication and deviousness. The Joker is more than he appears, and the most memorable Joker stories are able to capture this. He also represents the absolute worst in humanity. The dark depths that any of us could sink to.

And let's not discount his flamboyant style of criminal activity. His ideas are big. They're flashy. Sometimes even darkly funny. Like David Grohl, The Joker only writes hits. This isn't someone that's going to merely stick a knife in your back or tell some hitman to knock a person off. He could do that, mind you. The Joker's intellect is such that he doesn't necessarily need to be hands-on, but he often continues to do so by choice. He's a guy who likes getting his hands dirty.

This is a guy who has gassed kindergarten classes, tortured multiple victims in the most grotesque ways imaginable, and has killed/scarred multiple meaningful characters within the DCU. In comics, his rap sheet has no equal. He's the greatest comic book villain ever created. Doctor Doom is close, but still second place in my opinion.

But Joker also represents something else. He also represents that why do people try to be good when the world around is so bad.

Magneto is up there in terms of rap sheet also, just because he's a borderline terrorist.

#43 Edited by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

@jnr6lil said:

@reignmaker said:

@battle_forum_junkie said:

@jj62:

Yeah, he's overrated just like Batman is overrated, but i'm not going to let a few loud fan-boys color my perception of a cool character.

For me the main reason is because he has a death wish, but he doesn't want anyone but Batman to kill him, and in doing this Bruce will violate everything he stands for. And Joker will win.

It's twisted but kind of sophisticated at the same time. That's what makes him a cool villain for me.

Pretty much this, but I'll take it a couple steps further. Behind the Joker's CrAzY exterior, is a deep multilayer fabric of sophistication and deviousness. The Joker is more than he appears, and the most memorable Joker stories are able to capture this. He also represents the absolute worst in humanity. The dark depths that any of us could sink to.

And let's not discount his flamboyant style of criminal activity. His ideas are big. They're flashy. Sometimes even darkly funny. Like David Grohl, The Joker only writes hits. This isn't someone that's going to merely stick a knife in your back or tell some hitman to knock a person off. He could do that, mind you. The Joker's intellect is such that he doesn't necessarily need to be hands-on, but he often continues to do so by choice. He's a guy who likes getting his hands dirty.

This is a guy who has gassed kindergarten classes, tortured multiple victims in the most grotesque ways imaginable, and has killed/scarred multiple meaningful characters within the DCU. In comics, his rap sheet has no equal. He's the greatest comic book villain ever created. Doctor Doom is close, but still second place in my opinion.

But Joker also represents something else. He also represents that why do people try to be good when the world around is so bad.

Magneto is up there in terms of rap sheet also, just because he's a borderline terrorist.

This.

#44 Posted by overatedsupervi11ans (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone else thought that the joker is just a pre pubescent girl that is in love with batman. This explains the constant longing and need for batmans attention and why he would let anyone kill him other than Bruce, the joker is just simply infatuated

#45 Posted by ganon15 (1446 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@teerack said:

Basically anything tied with Batman is over rated. Not that it isn't good, but people think it's a lot better then it is.

True, I love Batman to death but sadly I agree. He's not the be all/end all of superheroes like most folks think. If anyone is gonna get that title, it's Superman.

This ^ but I like them both equally :)