Ivory Kings/Beyonders Reign Supreme (Major Spoilers)

My God there all dead!!

In todays New Avengers Henry Pym tells the tale to Earths Heroes.

Rabum Alal must be one bad dude to be at war with these guys!

It's been a while since Hickman's last case of chucking Marvel's cosmic hierarchy out the window.

I liked the issue, but are there only three Beyonders? I was under the impression there was an entire universe of them. And it begs the question, why is Rabum Alal at war with these guys? They're both trying to destroy the entire multiverse, but why are they at odds? I suppose we won't know until the big reveal about Rabum Alal, but the fact that the Ivory Kings are actually the Beyonders might strengthen the theory that Rabum Alal might be a rogue Beyonder himself.

Did anything happen with the Galactus Seed after Hickman's F4/FF run ended? Because there was another theory I found interesting that said Rabum Alal might be the fruit of the Galactus Seed. Hence why Galactus says the being inside the Seed would lack restraint and end everything sooner. That theory also speculated that there's a Galactus Seed in every universe, and every Galactus has to take custody of it to ensure it doesn't hatch --- but in Hickman's run, the Council of Reeds saves an alternate Earth from destruction by killing that reality's Galactus, and in his absence, that universe's Seed hatched and Rabum Alal was born. I don't know how much of it fits with the story, but it's cool to think about. It certainly fits with Hickman tying plot points from his earlier stories into his present-day stuff.

There's also another theory about Rabum Alal having a connection to King Hyperion based off a bit from an Exiles arc where King Hyperion destroys two universes by smashing them into each other just to see if he could, despite the Panoptichron drones warning him that removing one reality destabilizes the entire metastructure --- basically how the incursions were started. But that seems like a long shot, and doesn't fit with Black Swan's story of Rabum Alal's birth sending his universe into heat-death. Then again, she could be lying.

One last theory: Rabum Alal is an evil Franklin Richards and the Black Swans are all their universes' equivalents of Valeria. Probably not, but cool nonetheless.

@saren:

Maybe it only takes 3 (scary)?

I floated the Franklin Richards theory sometime ago but the CV community didn't agree. I also saw the Galactus Seed theory and it was very interesting. I have a feeling its going to be something from deep within Marvel lore. I could throw out some crazy theories i.e. its Korvac from Alt Universe where he destroyed reality with the Ultimate Nullifier but we will have our answers in a month or so with Secret Wars No. 1(Marvel please send the check for event promotion to the usual address).

@earthsmightiest: I've seen people claim Rabum Alal is Protege based off the death of the Living Tribunal, but this week's issue negates the only reason to believe that.

The King Hyperion theory is nagging at me for some reason. I consider it extremely unlikely, but I remember Hickman saying he brought Hyperion into the Avengers for "a very specific reason". But King Hyperion had his ass kicked by the Thunderbolts, which would certainly seem to exclude him from consideration.

@saren:

Hickmans Hyperion did survive the Incursion that destroyed his and another Universe. Perhaps Hyperion survival will be the key to not only surviving the Final Incursion with the Ultimate Universe but the restoration of the Marvel Universe/Multiverse do to the unique element that allowed him to live.

can someone enlighten me why did the beyonders ruin the multiverse? i read the issue, maybe it has the answers but i missed the point

@-daydream-:

Cause that's what bad guys do!

But seriously were not sure of the their motivations but since Time Runs out is coming to end hopefully we will get that and many other answers soon.

@-daydream-: I think the Beyonders only destroyed universes for the sole purpose of killing the Living Tribunal. I think the Living Tribunal is like Superman, Superman gains his power from the sun, without it hes powerless, in that regard, the living tribunal gains his power from every universe, so by destroying a universe you destroy a bit of his power, so the Beyonders destroyed enough universe to be able to overpower the living tribunal.

For my theory on Rabum Alal, I think its an alternate version of Molecule Man cause I think he's the only one from earth that is connected to the Beyonders in someway and the one of few people who are powerful on a universal scale.So I think the story goes, in some reality instead of Molecule Man getting his powers by accident, the Beyonders intervened in some way and made him the Molecule Man making him more powerful than his counterparts, then they instructed him to do their bidding (from the Beyonders history I think they never actually did things themselves, they usually paid or told others to do it for them) by destroying universes but somewhere along the lines he grew tired of being controlled by the Beyonders and (maybe due to either his mental instability) he decided to be better than them by destroying every reality. However I think the Beyonders planned to keep one or a few universes intact, cause since the Beyonders are essentially scientists by destroying every reality there wouldn't be anything to experiment, defeat their goals so that's probably why they and Rabum Alal are in competition.

Maybe Rabum Alal is the beyonder we are familiar with?

@jashro44: I think that would be too easy, cause as soon as the Beyonders were revealed everyones first choice on who Rabum Alal is would be Beyonder.

Thats true. I'm just having a hard time how Hickman can make sense there are so many beings more powerful than living tribunal. I mean I am guessing there is a universe full of beyonders but than this Rabum Alal is suppose to be a threat to the beyonders? I don't follow marvel cosmic but it just seems weird. I hear Hickman has a tendency to ignore that stuff though so there is a good chance that Rabum Alal isn't another beyonder.

Your moelcule man theory could work as well I guess.

Is this Rabum Alal?

So its unknown for everyone...thanks for the answer bro

This is some Lovecraftian stuff going down.

@jashro44: The Living Tribunal is suppose to be the second strongest entity in the whole marvel universe, so you're right it is weird that the Beyonders could kill him and its even weirder that it took awhile for the Living Tribunal to appear, you would think he would have known what was going on from the beginning and stop it there.

well my theory is based off "things in common" like Rabum Alal was born on earth, has to be super powerful and has to have some connection to the Beyonders cause it wouldn't make sense if there wasn't, it would be like Superman fighting the Joker unless there is a reference to Batman then those two shouldn't be in the same story. So more options on Rabum Alal would be the Beyonder, or one of the cosmic cubes they created.

Interesting

Did anyone else catch the reference to the original Beyonder? When Hank was telling the his tale he stated that Beyonder from the original Secret Wars was a child unit?

Oh man, I hope it's an evil Franklin Richards from an alternate reality or something. It has been stated before by the Celestials that he poses great danger to the "omniversal order" which is quite a remark considering that even an adult Franklin hasn't been known to be that powerful nor evil.

So perhaps the Celestials knew something about Franklin that has yet to happen or his existence in a different reality. He is known to be an anomaly after all.

The question I'm most curious about is the connection between the Beyonder and the Beyonders. The Beyonder was known to be the strongest entity in the multiverse before his retcon. So is he stronger than the three other Beyonders or as equally as powerful?

@earthsmightiest: I saw that his exact words were "I could tell you about the child unit from secret wars. Visually modified to mimic what it perceived...It crunched a universe to make a toy...but these things crunch universes and are most certainly not playing a game".

From what he said it could mean that the Beyonders will be ones to make the earth with all the different universes in it.

Where is TOAA in all of this? I can't imagine he'd be too happy that the Living Tribunal is dead.

But LT got his powers from TOAA, no? So regardless of the amount of universes, his power still would have remained as-is. Plus, there's an infinite amount of universes, destroying some off shouldn't really do anything.

@mysticmedivh: you have a system of infinite planets in contention with an entropic system working in the other direction. Sure you have infinite universes but there is also an infinite number of them being killed off early.

Look at the author, Hickman likes killing gods.

My guess is that, for whatever reason, he can't get too involved, but he's working things in a way will give the heroes a chance to stop/survive this. Kinda like Zordon or Master Weaver in Spider-Verse.

All hope lies with Doom. I really have a feeling Hickman is going to use this call back from his FF run, where Doom is the reason that we have Secret Wars.

I don't recall toaa ever working directly to do much.

I'm curious as to how the death of the conceptual beings(order,chaos,death,etc.) effect their universes since I don't think it's ever been clearly explained in most cases.

What, we're supposed to throw a fit because Marvel is disposing of its uninspired humanoid "personifications" that have little to do with the "abstracts" they're meant to represent? All this nonsense is just a distraction. That a cosmic hierarchy exists, and they're all portrayed as humanoids are painful reminders of writers' tendency to project humanity onto cosmic beings. The universe is smaller and less interesting for their defined existence.

@darthmummy: the speed farce makes perfect sense tho....

@darthmummy: and the monitor thing. Totally makes sense too. I read final crisis. Didn't make a lick is sense.

Well he probably created the Ivory Kings and knew that they would kill living tribunal before he killed them....

They could have come out with a better name than the Beyonders or Ivory KIngs.

The question remains who is going to stop them an how.This would require The Beyonder to come in or TOAA.

Then again the way this is going it could be somebody totally new.

@tensor:

I like the name Ivory Kings, I think it refers the Wild Space realm they originate from (a white void from what we have seen). I suspect Rabum Alal will be the one to stop them making him the greater threat of the two.

@earthsmightiest: Well the way this is going he has a big part to play.I just hope everything plays out well.

Something just occurred to me. I'm sure everyone remembers this:

What happened that destroyed several hundred thousand Universes overnight? The death of the Living Tribunal by Beyonders I think would qualify.

@earthsmightiest: Good..Because marvel trying to be more realistic...Cough...they are fantastic four properties...

@earthsmightiest: But Iron Man found the Living Tribunal's body long before the sudden drop in realities happened.

This is interesting still interested to see what takes down these freaks

Maybe because the TOAA already knows the outcome and either sees no reason to get involved or just plaine ok with it.

or

Wouldn't it be a kicker if Rabum Alal turned out to be TOAA?

@saren:

True but where did the battle take place? Perhaps the nexus of Realities or White Hot Room? Upon death the LT body fragments scattered across the remaining realities and time. For beings and events like this time is meaningless

So are the 616 abstracts dead to. If so how is that possible. How does Death die and Oblivion cease to exist if they're the personifications of death and nonexistence?

Well without Death, it would be the same as the cancerverse. Perhaps the Ivory Kings are taking on their roles after they defeat them? Maybe we simply cannot comprehend the effects of their demise?

I get the impression that once the Beyonders destroy the abstracts they compress or destroy that Universe so no need to take on any mantle.

Don't you know? A punch form one single Earth hero will trounce these Beyonders fools!

Well Hickman seem to be juggling both cosmic and mystic characters. If one end of the spectrum, turned out to be the Beyonders, a cosmic entity, perhaps their opponent Rabum Alal would be one of the mystic entity. I think that would be cool.

Battle between cosmic and mystic gods.

Maybe for that too happen, they need to destroy all incarnations of the abstracts of each multiverse. I'm assuming the real goal was to simply draw the Living Tribunal out and kill him.

The rest of the Abstracts from the different multiverses probably don't matter to them.

Well Hickman f*ck up the marvel universe, i'm go to read DC now

Marvel announced that the universe was ending so having the cosmic entities destroyed is to be expected.