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Posted by Agent9149 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not satisfied with the current crop of GTB males in the comic book world. They are too flat. It seems like every new gay guy already has a boyfriend or finds one too quick and easy. It was cute for a while and now its just uhhh. Where are the hopeless romantics who keep looking for Mr. Right but always ending up with Mr. Wrong? Where is the characters that always find Mr. Right but always in the wrong place and at the wrong time? Where are the love triangles? Where are downlow characters that sneak around?

How about a coming out story that doesn't end in open arms and the straight best friends saying, "dude, I've always known".

How about a character that goes through obstacles caused by his sexuality.

I want to see a flamboyant character who thinks he's the most fabulous thing that was ever created. I want to see a masculine character who thinks he's a man's man's man. The "they're just like us" routine is getting old. No more cookie cutter gays that fit in the politic correct world. I would like for once in a while to be offended and not appeased. And don't get me started on the "oh I just remembered I like boys too" plot magic.

Oh and can we not use the variants of the "you're barking up the wrong tree" and "it's ironic cause I'm gay" jokes. It's only funny when midnighter says it.

Oh of you haven't noticed I would get up and applaud the statement, "midnighter is the best developed gay character in comic book history"

#1 Posted by kiss_lamia (1231 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149: i know the feeling! theres not alot of gay characters out there that are diverse enough to represent the different types of gay out there yet, but who knows maybe there will be some new ones on the way :D im personally hoping for fem/diva character that's written properly, there has been hardly any.

#2 Posted by BumpyBoo (10744 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149: Agreed in every respect, very well said. Frankly, I find that level of pandering patronising, this crazy, politically correct idea that gay characters musn't suffer hardships - even though that is really only homophobic to straight people as we WANT to see that! It is far more realistic. And your point about cookie cutter gays...I laughed, but it was the sad laugh of someone who knows it is true, and wishes it wasn't.

Great post <3

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#3 Posted by kiss_lamia (1231 posts) - - Show Bio

@BumpyBoo: Preach girl Preach!!!!

#4 Posted by BumpyBoo (10744 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiss_lamia said:

@BumpyBoo: Preach girl Preach!!!!

Hehe! <3

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#5 Posted by Agent9149 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiss_lamia said:

@Agent9149: i know the feeling! theres not alot of gay characters out there that are diverse enough to represent the different types of gay out there yet, but who knows maybe there will be some new ones on the way :D im personally hoping for fem/diva character that's written properly, there has been hardly any.

I pray for a fem sidekick for wonder woman. it would be too awesome.

@BumpyBoo said:

@Agent9149: Agreed in every respect, very well said. Frankly, I find that level of pandering patronising, this crazy, politically correct idea that gay characters musn't suffer hardships - even though that is really only homophobic to straight people as we WANT to see that! It is far more realistic. And your point about cookie cutter gays...I laughed, but it was the sad laugh of someone who knows it is true, and wishes it wasn't.

Great post <3

Yes. It's high time we start seeing gay characters face more than first world problems.

#6 Posted by kiss_lamia (1231 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149: i can imagine the weave snatching already lool

#7 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't make a variant cover of a person sitting alone in their room quietly sobbing because of the ignorance of the world. 
 
If it won't make money, it won't get done.

#8 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6545 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn said:

You can't make a variant cover of a person sitting alone in their room quietly sobbing because of the ignorance of the world. If it won't make money, it won't get done.

If done well, I'd buy that. Sadness in art can be quite beautiful.

My avatar is sad but well drawn for example.

#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91417 posts) - - Show Bio

Homosexuality is a fairly new concept to comics. Give the artists\writers\creators some time, maybe you will get those characters you desire. 

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#10 Posted by kiss_lamia (1231 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149: have you read the early x-force comics with shatterstar and rictor? they could only hint at there relationship at the time but is was pretty cool if you didn't check it out :D

#11 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

You can't make a variant cover of a person sitting alone in their room quietly sobbing because of the ignorance of the world. If it won't make money, it won't get done.

If done well, I'd buy that. Sadness in art can be quite beautiful.

My avatar is sad but well drawn for example.

Oh yes, certainly, but it's not attention grabbing to the kind of dimwitted public marvel are trying to manipulate when they splash a big pretty picture on a cover.
#12 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6545 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

You can't make a variant cover of a person sitting alone in their room quietly sobbing because of the ignorance of the world. If it won't make money, it won't get done.

If done well, I'd buy that. Sadness in art can be quite beautiful.

My avatar is sad but well drawn for example.

Oh yes, certainly, but it's not attention grabbing to the kind of dimwitted public marvel are trying to manipulate when they splash a big pretty picture on a cover.

Hmm, I think I know what you mean. I could easily imagine it on smaller companies, and maybe DC. Probably not Marvel though.

#13 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

You can't make a variant cover of a person sitting alone in their room quietly sobbing because of the ignorance of the world. If it won't make money, it won't get done.

If done well, I'd buy that. Sadness in art can be quite beautiful.

My avatar is sad but well drawn for example.

Oh yes, certainly, but it's not attention grabbing to the kind of dimwitted public marvel are trying to manipulate when they splash a big pretty picture on a cover.

Hmm, I think I know what you mean. I could easily imagine it on smaller companies, and maybe DC. Probably not Marvel though.

Yeah, you could see it on Vertigo and Pre-New 52 DC. Dark Horse as well. Image maybe not so much.
#14 Posted by White Mage (18751 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Homosexuality is a fairly new concept to comics. Give the artists\writers\creators some time, maybe you will get those characters you desire.

This, essentially

#15 Posted by Agent9149 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiss_lamia: oh yes. I have seen it, sad they couldn't go deeper.

@Vance Astro said:

Homosexuality is a fairly new concept to comics. Give the artists\writers\creators some time, maybe you will get those characters you desire.

Well that's true. But it shouldn't be too hard.

@Markus_Langbourn said:

You can't make a variant cover of a person sitting alone in their room quietly sobbing because of the ignorance of the world. If it won't make money, it won't get done.

Crying over ignorance of the world isn't really what I had in mind.

#16 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Agent9149: No, but I was using an example of the mundane in order to illustrate my point.
#17 Posted by JimTheSurfer (560 posts) - - Show Bio

I am totally not intereseted in reading gay romance stories...

#18 Posted by gravitypress (2066 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the problem I see is that if you add to much sexuality to a comic it starts to go away from the intended aspect of the book. If more than 50% of a book is devoted to romance you have a romance comic for example. Sure a few writers could intelligently handle this but bad ones could ruin it as well.

#19 Posted by Vance Astro (91417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Agent9149 said:

Well that's true. But it shouldn't be too hard.

I don't think it's hard as much as it is unreasonable to make an artist,writer,creator, come up with characters of a certain type, a type of character outside of what has previously proven to make money. The way the structure works at these publishers is, they do what they know and then slowly pick at genres and character types they haven't touched. They have to focus on what works first.
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#20 Edited by madtitan2112 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm Not interested in reading ANY romance stories...

Even with Spidey and M.J. there were hardly ever more than a few panels per issue devoted to romance before we got some good old fashioned super villain butt kicking.

#21 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149 said:

I am not satisfied with the current crop of GTB males in the comic book world. They are too flat. It seems like every new gay guy already has a boyfriend or finds one too quick and easy. It was cute for a while and now its just uhhh. Where are the hopeless romantics who keep looking for Mr. Right but always ending up with Mr. Wrong? Where is the characters that always find Mr. Right but always in the wrong place and at the wrong time? Where are the love triangles? Where are downlow characters that sneak around?

How about a coming out story that doesn't end in open arms and the straight best friends saying, "dude, I've always known".

How about a character that goes through obstacles caused by his sexuality.

I want to see a flamboyant character who thinks he's the most fabulous thing that was ever created. I want to see a masculine character who thinks he's a man's man's man. The "they're just like us" routine is getting old. No more cookie cutter gays that fit in the politic correct world. I would like for once in a while to be offended and not appeased. And don't get me started on the "oh I just remembered I like boys too" plot magic.

Oh and can we not use the variants of the "you're barking up the wrong tree" and "it's ironic cause I'm gay" jokes. It's only funny when midnighter says it.

Oh of you haven't noticed I would get up and applaud the statement, "midnighter is the best developed gay character in comic book history"

Yea! And the man whore gays. I'm hetero. But one of my besties is gay and that nugga is a slut. Too many stories not enough barf bags. lol

#22 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio

If you want to see those types of characters then go write them.

#23 Posted by Agent9149 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: That is a way to look at it yes. I can understand that it would be hard to develop a character that's doesn't fit regularly in the "what sells mold" but I feel like too many times creators, tend to cut off the parts that don't fit and make do with what does. I'm not asking for a whole revamp. Just at least a simple try to break away from the mold, one issue.

@gravitypress said:

Well the problem I see is that if you add to much sexuality to a comic it starts to go away from the intended aspect of the book. If more than 50% of a book is devoted to romance you have a romance comic for example. Sure a few writers could intelligently handle this but bad ones could ruin it as well.

That is a big part. However I feel like sometimes people forget sexuality is more than just the act of sex, at least when it comes to lgbt characters. And about the romance apart, i'm not asking for more romance. I'm just asking for better romance parts. The whole comic arc could have one page of romance, but I wouldn't care as long as that one page was deep and isn't superficial. And when I mean by deep, is raw primitive emotion and not just heartfelt lover's talk. The passion between peter parker and mary jane, jean and wolverine/cyclops, batman and catwoman, superman and lois lane has never been equated in gay relationship other than midnighter and apollo and wiccan and hulkling (to an extent)

@JimTheSurfer said:

I am totally not intereseted in reading gay romance stories...

then don't read them. No one is forcing you to buy every comicbook on the face of planet

#24 Posted by Agent9149 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

@madtitan2112 said:

I'm Not interested in reading ANY romance stories...

Even with Spidey and M.J. there were hardly ever more than a few panels per issue devoted to romance before we got some good old fashioned super villain butt kicking.

I'm not asking for a whole comic book dedicated to a gay romance. I'm asking for those "few panels" to be better and for the gay characters to stop being so similar and following the same patterns when it comes to relationships. I want substance not quantity.

@Matchstick said:

If you want to see those types of characters then go write them.

I will one day. I just hope that I won't be the first, especially with so many talented artists who are around now and have the potential to do such a thing.

#25 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

Well... They haven't ALL found love...

Anole, Striker, Karma, Victoria Hand (who is dead at the moment), and there have to be others...

Also, to be fair, North Star's relationship hasn't always been smooth... and it's destined to have its rocky moments.

it almost seems like a given that Shatterstar is going to cheat on Rictor.

It's not entirely wine and roses for the gay community of Comic books....

#26 Posted by FalconPuuunch (942 posts) - - Show Bio

Northstar in Ultimate X-Men was sorta flamboyant and Nightcrawler was homophobic towards Colossus for being gay. Try reading it, it's different.

#27 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6545 posts) - - Show Bio

Batwoman got kicked out of the army for being gay. Plus her relationship with Maggie is having troubles due to Kate seeming like she's sneaking around because of her secret identity. Do these count as obstacles?

Or are you only looking for examples of gay men?

#28 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

Good points

#29 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

Its just like every other minority type in comics for instance there are only 3 personalities for black people in comics, African, "Street", and Uncle Tom. Seriously go look and try to find a single black character in Marvel or DC that doesn't conform to one of those three types.

#30 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6545 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Its just like every other minority type in comics for instance there are only 3 personalities for black people in comics, African, "Street", and Uncle Tom. Seriously go look and try to find a single black character in Marvel or DC that doesn't conform to one of those three types.

Does Monica Rambeau fall into any of those?

#31 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: depends on the writer

#32 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6545 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: depends on the writer

Hmm. I'll keep thinking.

#33 Posted by Bruxae (14008 posts) - - Show Bio

We will always want what we dont have, id prefer the writers to write about what they want and are good at.

#34 Posted by gravitypress (2066 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149: I agree sex isn't sexuality kind of like Rupert Everett you just feel it. I am not sure that could be well translated to comics. While I would like to see a better gay relationship in comics I have never seen any interesting relationship in comics.

#35 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent blog. I think it's about time they introduce characters like that.

#36 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18743 posts) - - Show Bio

Id actually like to see more characters that are gay that it isn't a big deal,like just put a panel in where they are kissing a character of the same gender in the same way a straight character would.If you get what I mean.

#37 Posted by Cavemold (1684 posts) - - Show Bio

these are current gay charcters

Batwoman own onging

Hulking

flamebird

Northstar

Apollo

Midnighter

i forget who huliking and northstar are dating

#38 Posted by Cavemold (1684 posts) - - Show Bio

they also had astonshing x men wedding

#39 Posted by skooks (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@JimTheSurfer said:

I am totally not intereseted in reading gay romance stories...

Well you're in luck since there aren't very many to read about.

#40 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Its just like every other minority type in comics for instance there are only 3 personalities for black people in comics, African, "Street", and Uncle Tom. Seriously go look and try to find a single black character in Marvel or DC that doesn't conform to one of those three types.

Mr. Terrific... He's not African. He owns a huge company and is one of the most intelligent men on the planet. He has at least one PhD right? He's not "street" and he's definitely not Uncle Tom.

Nick Fury Jr. ... He's not African. I'm pretty sure he'd kick your teeth out if you called him Uncle Tom... and he definitely doesn't seem street to me.

Monica Rambea (formerly Captain Marvel) - She is neither street, African, or an Uncle Tom

Uatu - Young genius that works for the same company as Peter Parker... Not African, definitely not street, and by no means an Uncle Tom.

Spider-Man (Ultimate Comics) - This kid is not African, I wouldn't classify him as Street, and he is his own person. He doesn't even let Captain America push him around. He is most definitely not an Uncle Tom.

Cyborg - An intelligent young man that was on his way to college, possibly on a football scholarship, before the accident that led to him becoming Cyborg. Not African, not street, and NOT an Uncle Tom.

John Stewart - My favorite Green Lantern. Not African, Not street, and by NO MEANS an Uncle Tom.

I could go on, but if you're not familiar with THESE characters, I'm wondering how many comics you actually read... No disrespect intended...

#41 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: I was being hyperbolic but some of the characters you mentioned were originally quite stereotypical they were just allowed to evolve into actual characters.

#42 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: I was being hyperbolic but some of the characters you mentioned were originally quite stereotypical they were just allowed to evolve into actual characters.

Well, I have to say, back in the 70s and 80s they were horrendously stereotypical... But to make matters worse, the stereotypes weren't even remotely accurate... For example, consider Luke Cage back in the early 80s. DAYUM, that was bad... You read his dialogue and you think, "This HAD to be written by a middle-classed white man... Rhodey (war machine) was also pretty pathetic for a while there. I can still remember during Secret Wars (and I read it when it first came out) him talking all "street" (if you will.) There was a scene where he (in Iron Man's suit) is holding Monica Rambeau. He's blasting this huge rock before he and the other good guys are crushed... Someone mentions how surprised they were that he didn't drop Captain Marvel and he says, "I never drop talent like this, my man..." or something like that... and later he's hitting on Monica and he seems NOTHING like a college educated air-force officer...

But, I don't think it's the same today. We've come a long way... It's not perfect, but it's SOO much better.

#43 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: I've pretty much given up on the concept of a non stereotypical Native American in comics. Aside from Forge they're all magic/magic-like mutation or angry warrior. And even Forge has a thing in his backstory where he was apparently meant to be a shaman but decided to go into tech instead.

#44 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: I've pretty much given up on the concept of a non stereotypical Native American in comics. Aside from Forge they're all magic/magic-like mutation or angry warrior. And even Forge has a thing in his backstory where he was apparently meant to be a shaman but decided to go into tech instead.

if you could create a new character that was native American, what would they be like?

#45 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: First off no magic, no mysticism of any kind and not a warrior by choice. Have him start out as like an accountant or a store clerk or some normal job that doesn't require rain dances. Not saying ignore his culture but its the 21st century, no one lives in tepees any more.

#46 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: First off no magic, no mysticism of any kind and not a warrior by choice. Have him start out as like an accountant or a store clerk or some normal job that doesn't require rain dances. Not saying ignore his culture but its the 21st century, no one lives in tepees any more.

and then?

#47 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: Well I haven't thought it through at this point give me a day or 2 and I could work out a character that's Native American that respects the culture without being a complete stereotype. Like a speedster or street vigilante that lives in a city because while modern comics refuse to accept this many Native Americans don't live on reservations they do live in places like New York and LA as well as small towns throughout the country.

#48 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20347 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@joshmightbe said:

Its just like every other minority type in comics for instance there are only 3 personalities for black people in comics, African, "Street", and Uncle Tom. Seriously go look and try to find a single black character in Marvel or DC that doesn't conform to one of those three types.

Mr. Terrific... He's not African. He owns a huge company and is one of the most intelligent men on the planet. He has at least one PhD right? He's not "street" and he's definitely not Uncle Tom.

Nick Fury Jr. ... He's not African. I'm pretty sure he'd kick your teeth out if you called him Uncle Tom... and he definitely doesn't seem street to me.

Monica Rambea (formerly Captain Marvel) - She is neither street, African, or an Uncle Tom

Uatu - Young genius that works for the same company as Peter Parker... Not African, definitely not street, and by no means an Uncle Tom.

Spider-Man (Ultimate Comics) - This kid is not African, I wouldn't classify him as Street, and he is his own person. He doesn't even let Captain America push him around. He is most definitely not an Uncle Tom.

Cyborg - An intelligent young man that was on his way to college, possibly on a football scholarship, before the accident that led to him becoming Cyborg. Not African, not street, and NOT an Uncle Tom.

John Stewart - My favorite Green Lantern. Not African, Not street, and by NO MEANS an Uncle Tom.

I could go on, but if you're not familiar with THESE characters, I'm wondering how many comics you actually read... No disrespect intended...

Wow. You sure do your homework well. +1 for you..

#49 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: Well I haven't thought it through at this point give me a day or 2 and I could work out a character that's Native American that respects the culture without being a complete stereotype. Like a speedster or street vigilante that lives in a city because while modern comics refuse to accept this many Native Americans don't live on reservations they do live in places like New York and LA as well as small towns throughout the country.

I'm wondering... How do you make a character such that their ethnic background or heritage is obvious, and avoid the perception of being a stereotype. Obviously, you wouldn't have them saying something like, "I'm native-American," every other panel. And I know you're not suggesting that... But I'm curious what elements you WOULD work into your character that would show they are Native American and still avoid the stereotyping thing... I'm Hawaiian, and I'm wondering the same thing about if I were to create a Hawaiian character and did not want to stereotype them... Not that I'm suggesting there aren't good Hawaiian characters in Marvel, because there are... But two of them, you wouldn't really know they were Hawaiian unless you read a panel where they're talking about where they are from. Of course, real life is like that, isn't it? We work with or go to school with people of different cultures and backgrounds and often times have no idea what their ethnicity is... And that's a good thing...

#50 Posted by joshmightbe (24773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: Pretty much the only way for a character to just be a character in comics is to be a white American, everyone else is either a total stereotype from the writers or fans treat them like they need to represent their entire group