Is the comic book world too chauvinistic?

In the pantheon of super powered heroes, DC has Wonder Woman, Super Girl and Power Girl, Marvel comics has, Storm, She Hulk, Phoenix and invisible girl mainly. Certainly the only well known female characters who regularly mix it with the big shots are WW and Supergirl (She Hulk I suppose) and aside from the dreadful Supergirl film of the 80s and the loathesome Elektra film a few years back, we haven't had a proper female character based film. Back in the 40s, 50s and even 60s when the DC and Marvel Universe's were largely created perhaps it was acceptable for a generally male dominated batch of heroes, but I'm wondering if in 2013 its time we gave some of the female characters more screen time and generally more respect. We see it in the battle threads where Wonder Woman is usually criminally under-rated when any battle comes up involving her. Anyway, with 51% of the population female is it about time the Marvel and DC worlds reflected this and about time we had a decent film with a female lead. Wonder Woman the Movie would be a good start in my opinion. WW rocks!

Societies chauvinism is mainly the problem. Females in comic books being less respected is just a reflection of societies chauvinism. Until society cleans its act and stops underappreciating women, women in comics won't be treated much different.

Societies chauvinism is mainly the problem. Females in comic books being less respected is just a reflection of societies chauvinism. Until society cleans its act and stops underappreciating women, women in comics won't be treated much different.

Very few superheroines can hold their own movie. it's not sexist, it's just that comics have never given enough respect. without the popularity and attention in comics, there's no way a movie would do well or at least get the attention of the general public. I think only a Wonder Woman solo movie could work. The others...ehhh, unfortunately. Wonder Woman is one of the most famous comic book characters ever and the other superheroines don't even come close to her.

@wolverine08:

"we blame society but we are society"

@sog7dc: But then... we blame ourselves. Revelation!

No.

The comic publishers produce what makes the most money for them (profits). Males buy the vast majority of comics so they make comics that appeal mostly to males. If females became a financially significant force in the comic book market, then the publishers would produce comics more appealing to them. If enough consumers want to buy it, someone will make it and sell it to them.

Are Barbie dolls to geared toward females? Should the maker of Barbie be compelled to make Barbie more appealing to males? No. Until males buy at least half of Barbies produced, Mattel shouldn't, wouldn't and won't produce Barbies with them in mind. Males are not the market Barbie is made for and thus Mattel shouldn't have to appease a minority of buyers. The same applies to comics, comic publishers and females.

Well considering that most male comic fans are so insecure that if any female character shows any self reliance half of them call her a lesbian the industry doesn't really have a whole lot of choice in the matter.

It kind of seems like it. I feel like they need to promote female characters better and include them more often. Seeing female characters more often would probably lead to more people being interested in them.

Efforts are being made, but I feel there needs to be more. Jonathan Hickman put together his Avengers line-up so that when it's up to 22 members, half will be female or ethnic minorities, so that the team "looks like the world". He should have made it half female if it's supposed to look like the world.

Marvel only has 1 female solo title at the moment that isn't ending soon due to cancellation, but they have about 15 male solo titles. 1 Isn't enough.

QFT

@powerherc: The fact is that boys will always be more interested in action oriented books than girls, not saying its the case for every single person just in general for the simple reason that males have more aggression in them so seeing fights appeals to us more in general. This isn't meant as a sexist statement its just a biological fact that under normal circumstances males of almost all species including humans are more naturally aggressive due to our higher levels of testosterone, so from that stand point I agree but from a business view shouldn't comics want to be just as accessible to the girls and women who do want to read them? They are still spending their money on a product so they should be given the same consideration as the guys who are spending their money.

Another thread about female super heroes not getting the respect the male super heroes do. Seriously give it a rest already.

Why?

@v_scarlotte_rose: Because girls are icky :p

In general yes. An ultimatley it comes down to the artist and writer. Simply do more hardball with the publisher and make the comic less focusing on tits. When I was 15-16 years old it was kind of cool now it is mostly just annoying. The thing it if it suits the story then fine. I wouldn't even mind sexual context if it make sense but superheroines walking in spandex and posing just seems weird. It is not about pleasing a certain segment but making better stories. The comics have grown from being a kid to a teenager that smiles when he sees tits and from time to time he is serious and make a good paper.

@bezza: You forgot the Catwoman movie, but that was probably for the best.

I know my daughter is much more interested in Super Heroes than Barbie so I would love to see more female heroes she could look up to instead of the over abundance of damsels in distress in comics and super hero cartoons. Its one of the reasons I wish WB would get off their asses and do that Wonder Woman movie.

@joshmightbe: Well there is an animated WW movie you could get. :P So she does have one.

If enough females demand and then buy comics that are more accessible to them, the market will respond by adapting to that trend and producing such comics. Until such time comes don't expect publishers to do it out of a sense of equality because they won't. The bottom line is comics are a business and businesses are about making a profit (money). Comics aren't a government subsidized program where an artificial equality can be forced upon the consumer. No one can be forced to buy comics they don't want to buy, including females, and the type of comics females apparently want don't sell well enough to warrant continuing publication of most of them let alone publishing more comics similar to them and, thus, similarly not likely to sell very well.

The publishers simply produce comics that sell the most ( hence all the constant cancellations of low selling/under-performing comics and reboots of entire comic universes when sales falter) which means that until female-oriented comics become enough of a profitable trend there simply won't be as many buying options for them. High demand = more product supply. Low demand = less product supply. That's the law of supply and demand.

Side Note: I have two daughters of my own (one is 10 and the other is 2) and the older one is an avid reader who loves the Perseus Jackson, Diary of a Wimpy Kid and Middle School series. She also loves Dragon Ball Z and Archie comics. Would she be more into Marvel and DC comics if they produced more "female-oriented" comics? Could be. She has read several of my Marvel and DC comics but nothing has really grabbed her yet, including the female centered ones. The truth is; she's just not into super-heroes.

Why should the number of female readers affect the number in the comics though? It's not like male readers can't read female led comics.

The reason why is if the number of female readers went up, then the number of female characters in comics would most likely go up.

You're right; it's not like male readers can't read female lead comics. The thing is - males, by and large, just don't want to read very many female lead comics. If the male readers did want that, then the female lead comics would be the best selling ones published and the publishers would keep making more to capitalize on (profit from) that trend. It hasn't happened yet and it's quite unlikely to happen at all. As long as males determine what sells best, publishers will produce what males want.

Pretty much agree with this article (if you could call it that).

Thing is.. the reason there are so many young, white, male comic characters, is because the fact is, most comic readers are young, white and male.

The number of characters that vary in age, race and gender are proportionate to the number of people of that criteria that read comics.

Certainly, if all of us young, white, males demanded more variety in our characters, we'd get it. I've not been around long and a lot of those guys probably have asked for diversity. Just my two cents on the matter.

Maybe this attitude could be changed. Some more representation on mixed teams could lead to new interest in female characters for male readers.

Perception becomes reality

we need better writers to foster a role model or two that young girls will enjoy reading. More girls buying comics = more money= better written females and the cycle continues.

bottom line is money

@cameron83:

Lol! You're giving me the finger snap??

Maybe it could be changed but do the publishers feel it's worth it? I don't think they do. Considering males have been the vast majority of comics buyers for nearly the entire history of comics, it's unlikely the publishers will risk alienating their most consistent buyers by pushing products they didn't ask for (and might not like) on them.

The best chance for female-geared comics being published might be for a female-geared publisher to step up and make some comics with female readers in mind. Another possibility is one or both of the Big Two publishers could publish a separate line of comics for females in much the same way they've published edgier comics for adults.

Until WW gets a feature film, I have little faith in anything else.

Do female characters get 'less respect' in the Battles forums because they're female? Never heard of this one before...

@powerherc: Do you think that seeing more women on teams would alienate male readers?

I don't like the idea of a seperate womens line of comics, as that would kind of imply that comic books are a mens thing only. Plus having the female characters in a seperate place makes them easier to ignore. Obviously they would be comics with good female representation, but I don't know if that would help in the long run. It could help a bit, but I don't know if it would, or how much.

I totally agree. For what it's worth, I think there is a Ms. Marvel movie on the horizon, so while there is a long way to go, at least they are moving in the right direction, even if slowly. I think it's unfortunate that, out of all the, IMO, promising Marvel female superheroes out there, Storm, Wasp, Rogue, Black Widow, She-Hulk just to name a few, only one is an ongoing that is doing decently (For the record I love Captain Marvel, personally. KSD is, IMO, doing a fantastic job). I don't know if that's a sign of Marvel not taking a chance on female characters, i.e. not putting good talent on the books, or if fans just aren't responsive to female heroes.

Hmm, perhaps the idea that males will read and buy anything with Big tits and little to nothing else...is sexist? :O

I don't know. it depends on how many more women are on which teams.

So what you're essentially saying is publishers should/must ignore what the vast majority of their fan base likes and wants and risk losing their business by giving them/forcing upon them what they have consistently shown they don't want in an effort to appeal to a small minority of readers who do very little to support the industry financially? It's not going to happen.

Comics are not exclusively "Men's only" but they are a male dominated industry. That doesn't make males bad. It just means they spend more money on comics than females. You don't like the idea of a separate line of comics but if such a female-geared line of comics were to be successful it could cause the sea change you want in comic book publishing. Or it might be successful enough to later be integrated into the mainstream universe of it's publisher while retaining the female-readership that made it successfull. Either scenario would be a positive thing for female comic book fans.

As much as I think Ms. Marvel is probably the best option for a solo female Marvel film, I'm not getting my hopes up until something official is announced. It's good that there are rumours though.

I'm kind of hoping with She-Hulk being in FF, and soon to be Mighty Avengers, and The Hunt, that they'll try her out in a new solo series. Wasp doesn't necessarily seem like a solo character to me, but I'd read it if they released it. Black Widow had an ongoing after only I think 7 issues a year or two ago, so I think they may wait a while before trying that again. I don't really read X-Men comics, so I can't properly comment on Storm or Rogue. They could at least try a mini-series to test how well an ongoing could potentially sell. I think Spider-Woman could be a good option though.

It's probably a combined problem with Marvel and the fans that does this. If one of them made more of an effort, maybe things could get better.

I'm not talking about trying to appeal to female readers. I just think it would be good if women were represented as much as men, just because I feel it would make more sense. If that led to more female reader then that's great.

I didn't say males were bad. As I said, I don't personally like the idea of having to have seperate womens comics, but it could maybe lead to better things. It seems like an unpredictable idea though.

LOL I am sorry,I just saw the opportunity and I CAN'T pass that up!

I mean,look at dat snap!! XD

The wonder woman show was hugely successful in the UK in the 1970s (I can't speak for the US) and people my age grew up liking Batman, Superman and WW because these were the only three characters we had seen on screen. It just shows that both sexes will watch a super-heroine (Lara Croft did ok too!!) and its time for more female coverage. Perhaps a cameo by She Hulk in a future Hulk movie, or Avengers movie, or even Super girl in a future MOS film, but definitely a WW movie. She has the history and public awareness to carry it off. I mean if a division two level character like Wolverine can have 2 movies (and I'm a big wolvie fan, so not slagging him off here), surely a premier leaguer like WW can manage it! One of the criticisms I've seen recently of super hero movies is that they are too chauvinistic, so someone needs to do something about it!

@bezza: I followed you a couple of days ago. Would you mind following me back please?

I think it would be easy to introduce her to the films. If they make a new Hulk film, have Jennifer Walters in it as a lawyer, and Bruce Banners cousin, like the comics. Have her be hurt in a final battle, and show Bruce having to give her a blood transfusion. The post-credits sequence would be her transforming, and then she appears in an Avengers sequel.

That, or do a similar thing, but have her be hurt and get the blood transfusion earlier on, and have her be transformed in time to team up with Hulk for a big final battle.

Either way it would be pretty simple.