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#51 Edited by thespideyguy (2645 posts) - - Show Bio

@thespideyguy said:

@guardian_of_gravity said:

@thespideyguy said:

I love 90's comics. Image is a great example of how awesome they were.

You clearly never read Youngblood. Or the Clone Saga. Or Superman At Earth's end. Or the Crossing. Or Red and Blue superman. Or anything written or drawn by rob liefeld. Or anything made by his flunkies.

I didn't want to get into Rob Liefeld. I don't like to insult artists, because it's hard to do what they do.

Rob Liefeld suffered from a lack of talent, he certainly was enthusiastic, but just didn't have the skill to match it. He did have a lot of energy though, given that he at times seemed to be drawing half of everything.

I agree.

#52 Posted by entropy_aegis (14508 posts) - - Show Bio

My opinion of comics is generally the same as Linkaras.

The 90s were terrible with bad plots, poor writing, the worst art to have ever befouled my eyes, some of the lamest characters to have ever been created and should die in a fire. Thankfully Kingdom Come put the 90s in their place.

Frank Miller is a crazed sexist, racist, conservative loon.

There is a time and place for fanservice, when the plot should be taking focus is neither of them.

Rob Liefeld is not an artist.

Brodsky is a hack and should be strung up.

People's opinions of other eras are as always, coloured because they only remember the best bits of it, when you objectively look back into them you'll see that they're all pretty much as crappy as now.

You see, the ratio of good to bad has always been 1 to 10. For every one comic worth reading, there have always been ten that sucked. For every one good comic, there were ten that were just worth reading. For every one great comic there were ten that were just good. For every one comic that is just bad, there are ten that are unspeakably awful.

This has been a fundamental aspect of creative works and indeed, everything since the dawn of time.

The good are always drowned in a sea of terribleness.

The dark ages are named as such because the primary theme was juvenile shock value and failed attempts at edginess.

Possibly true but I never got this impression from the Batman and the Flash books.

#53 Posted by Wolverine08 (38958 posts) - - Show Bio

My opinion of comics is generally the same as Linkaras.

The 90s were terrible with bad plots, poor writing, the worst art to have ever befouled my eyes, some of the lamest characters to have ever been created and should die in a fire. Thankfully Kingdom Come put the 90s in their place.

Frank Miller is a crazed sexist, racist, conservative loon.

There is a time and place for fanservice, when the plot should be taking focus is neither of them.

Rob Liefeld is not an artist, he is a manchild with pencils.

Brodsky is a hack and should be strung up.

People's opinions of other eras are as always, coloured because they only remember the best bits of it, when you objectively look back into them you'll see that they're all pretty much as crappy as now.

You see, the ratio of good to bad has always been 1 to 10. For every one comic worth reading, there have always been ten that sucked. For every one good comic, there were ten that were just worth reading. For every one great comic there were ten that were just good. For every one comic that is just bad, there are ten that are unspeakably awful.

This has been a fundamental aspect of creative works and indeed, everything since the dawn of time.

The good are always drowned in a sea of terribleness.

The dark ages are named as such because the primary theme was juvenile shock value and failed attempts at edginess.

Well said.

#54 Edited by Wolverine08 (38958 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis:

Batman and Flash were one of the few that manage to avoid the crappy quality of 90s comics.

#55 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity said:

My opinion of comics is generally the same as Linkaras.

The 90s were terrible with bad plots, poor writing, the worst art to have ever befouled my eyes, some of the lamest characters to have ever been created and should die in a fire. Thankfully Kingdom Come put the 90s in their place.

Frank Miller is a crazed sexist, racist, conservative loon.

There is a time and place for fanservice, when the plot should be taking focus is neither of them.

Rob Liefeld is not an artist.

Brodsky is a hack and should be strung up.

People's opinions of other eras are as always, coloured because they only remember the best bits of it, when you objectively look back into them you'll see that they're all pretty much as crappy as now.

You see, the ratio of good to bad has always been 1 to 10. For every one comic worth reading, there have always been ten that sucked. For every one good comic, there were ten that were just worth reading. For every one great comic there were ten that were just good. For every one comic that is just bad, there are ten that are unspeakably awful.

This has been a fundamental aspect of creative works and indeed, everything since the dawn of time.

The good are always drowned in a sea of terribleness.

The dark ages are named as such because the primary theme was juvenile shock value and failed attempts at edginess.

Possibly true but I never got this impression from the Batman and the Flash books.

Batman, Wolverine, and the Punisher got out of the Dark Ages improved because their characters pretty much were already made for them.

People like Spiderman and Superman exited the Dark Ages with stories like the Clone Saga and At Earth's end behind them.

And Youngblood is Youngblood and Youngblood will always be terrible.

#56 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol came out of the 90s (the greatest series ever).

Enough said.

#57 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, but it did have plenty of good stuff as well.

#59 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: Every piece of terrible is worth Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol.

And you're talking about Youngblood. The comic that no one ever cared about it, that didn't interfere with anything, and that existed on its own little awful island.

The modern era has Spider-Man, Justice League and X-Men being destroyed. Things that millions care about.

#60 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: Most people only watch the movies and cartoons. Less than a million people today read spiderman books or justice league comics. Ultimately, in the long run, not really many people care what happens in the comic book.

The comics in the 90s became so terrible that the entire industry crashed when people finally stopped reading them in the end of the speculator boom.

Hence comic book readership dropping down from hundreds of thousands to millions down to tens of thousands being the average. And to this day comic books still haven't recovered.

The 90s is why both comic book companies make nearly all their money from merchandising and adaptations these days, Even all of Batman's books combine do not retail for even one million. And Liefeld and his ilk are much to blame for the Comic Book being a continually more irrelevant medium as they slowly become little more than satellites to orbit around their movies and video games.

#61 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: A huge part of that problem was idiot collectors that noticed that the golden age comics were worth a ton of money so they assumed that meant all comics would be worth money some day but they failed to take into account the reason those Golden Age books were so valuable and that was those WW2 paper drives and mothers who read that stupid Wertham book and tossed their comics to save their children from lives of crime and perversion( That book is also the reason we have the CCA). The reason had nothing to do with quality it was rarity, The reason Action Comics #1 is worth over a million dollars is not because it was the greatest story ever its because its the first Superman story and there are only like 40 left on the planet.

#62 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: A huge part of that problem was idiot collectors that noticed that the golden age comics were worth a ton of money so they assumed that meant all comics would be worth money some day but they failed to take into account the reason those Golden Age books were so valuable and that was those WW2 paper drives and mothers who read that stupid Wertham book and tossed their comics to save their children from lives of crime and perversion( That book is also the reason we have the CCA). The reason had nothing to do with quality it was rarity, The reason Action Comics #1 is worth over a million dollars is not because it was the greatest story ever its because its the first Superman story and there are only like 40 left on the planet.

And Marvel was spewing out so much unadulterated crap that when the crash happened it had to sell off movie rights left right and center just to survive.

Had it not, there may not have been a marvel anymore.

And that would mean a world with no avengers movie and for however long, DC would have been the only major comic company around.

#63 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: When you have a demand you try to cash in, that's the basic capitalist practice. Sometimes it works well some times it crashes and burns. Also Image and DC had just as much to do with the over abundance of variant covers and over hyping, the only difference is Image didn't have as much money invested in it and DC had WB to cover their asses when it went south.

#64 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: When you have a demand you try to cash in, that's the basic capitalist practice. Sometimes it works well some times it crashes and burns. Also Image and DC had just as much to do with the over abundance of variant covers and over hyping, the only difference is Image didn't have as much money invested in it and DC had WB to cover their asses when it went south.

And then IDW inherits the Earth.

#65 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

Every era is the worst era of comics because everything is always terrible all of the time.

#66 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: People tend to forget the companies that started in the 90s to cash in or that hadn't had a time to shine until then that completely crashed all together. For instance Malibu comics was huge for like 2 or 3 years then the crap hit the fan and they ended up having to sell their entire company to Marvel to break even. Now days despite his 90s popularity you'd be hard pressed to find anyone under 25 who has any idea who Prime was.

#67 Posted by Lord_Johnathan (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: People tend to forget the companies that started in the 90s to cash in or that hadn't had a time to shine until then that completely crashed all together. For instance Malibu comics was huge for like 2 or 3 years then the crap hit the fan and they ended up having to sell their entire company to Marvel to break even. Now days despite his 90s popularity you'd be hard pressed to find anyone under 25 who has any idea who Prime was.

The big two can survive pretty much anything short of the market completely disappearing or their corporate headquarters getting hit with an H-bomb. But the sheer number of smaller companies that went under is pretty comparable to the effects of the Video Game crash of the 80s if you ask me.

#68 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_johnathan: To be fair there is a good chance that things like Ultraverse couldn't have survived past the 90s regardless because that part of Malibu comics was as quintessential 90s as you could get.

#69 Edited by Polarity (106 posts) - - Show Bio

The 90s provided us with a lot of clichéd grim n' gritty crap.

But it was also the golden age of Vertigo and that alone elevates the era somewhat. Also we did have some really good runs on several superhero titles, even though the biggest sellers (x-books and Spiderman) hit some pretty horrible lows.

#70 Posted by OrphanCrippler (206 posts) - - Show Bio

If it was anything like the 90's X-Men and Spidey cartoons, then it was the best era ever

#71 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

If it was anything like the 90's X-Men and Spidey cartoons, then it was the best era ever

Ehhh...

Watch the Youngblood reviews.

That was 99% of the comics made in that time.

#72 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7595 posts) - - Show Bio

There was some good stuff, I find some of the most interesting comics I have read have been from the 90's but there was a lot of tosh too.

#73 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: I can promise you most of the comic fans I knew in the 90s didn't give a s**t about Youngblood at any point in time, except for maybe Badrock but that was it, almost all conversation about Image back then was focused squarely on Spawn or Savage Dragon and occasionally Topcow. The only reason anyone cared about Leifeld was X-Force and Cable.

#74 Posted by cattlebattle (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: I can promise you most of the comic fans I knew in the 90s didn't give a s**t about Youngblood at any point in time, except for maybe Badrock but that was it, almost all conversation about Image back then was focused squarely on Spawn or Savage Dragon and occasionally Topcow. The only reason anyone cared about Leifeld was X-Force and Cable.

I thought Youngblood was pretty popular, that stuff came out at the time of the "comic boom" so every retailer was buying that stuff up. Not that anything was any good story wise but it was a pretty well known comic at its time. The Wildcats were also popular enough to get a cartoon series

#75 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: It was one of those things that everyone kept saying was popular but nobody was actually reading, most of their sales numbers on it came from those dumb ass collectors that probably never ever cracked them open.

#76 Posted by cattlebattle (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: It was one of those things that everyone kept saying was popular but nobody was actually reading, most of their sales numbers on it came from those dumb ass collectors that probably never ever cracked them open.

Haha, to true. Its interesting to note that Youngblood was a Teen Titans ripoff seeing as Liefield was supposed to work on a Teen Titans book at the time....so I guess there might have been some really young kids that liked Teen Titans that though the book was cool. I mean when I was a kid I thought stuff like Jim Lees X-Men was the bees knees, now, as a competent adult, I go back and look at that stuff and think of it as meh

#77 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: YoungBlood couldn't decide who they wanted to rip off. Badrock was the only character in the book that was even close to original.

#78 Posted by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

Current comics are disgusting.
I want to cut my eyes out every time i see Thor or Samuel Fury.

#79 Posted by cattlebattle (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: YoungBlood couldn't decide who they wanted to rip off. Badrock was the only character in the book that was even close to original.

Actually when you look the characters are blatantly Teen Titan analogues. Shaft was a Red Arrow/Speedy analogue, there was a Cyborg character analogue...he was supposed to work on a Teen Titans series and had notes for the character he was going to use, he just turned all the characters into his own "original creations"

#80 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: I always consider Shaft more of a Hawkeye knock off because of the outfit but to be honest I never read a youngblood book all the way through and 90% of my knowledge of the team comes from 3 issues of the Badrock solo series and a crossover he did with Spider-man.

#81 Edited by JulieDC (876 posts) - - Show Bio

No, not the entire decade. I feel that the mid to late 90s were pretty great at least for some comic characters. To be honest, I'll take most 90s stories over the stuff that preceded it because I just can't get into a lot of older comics due to different writing conventions of the time (although that is not saying much since I'll take 90s over the current output as well). I guess it really depends on what you grew up with, what you are looking for, and what seems to offer what you want. You'll find good and bad in each decade.

#82 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

Current era produced AVX, there is absolutely nothing from the 90s that even comes close to that level of bulls**t except maybe Heroes Reborn and Cap's boob job.

#83 Edited by jwalser3 (4805 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like everyone just band wagons this topic.

#84 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

90's were great, sue me.

#85 Posted by cameron83 (6718 posts) - - Show Bio

@gor724 said:

@guardiandevil83: You said Rob Liefeld was bad, and then you said Cable and Deadpool were good things, they were both created by Liefeld.

She most likely meant the art.

And I love both Cable and Deadpool. Both are awesome characters,despite being born in a time where most characters:

1. Wore barely nothing (mainly females)

2. Rob liefeld was popular then.

3. Most costumes were littered with pouches,guns,knives,etc...

4. Most characters had names that included,but are not limited to the following,-

Deathkill

Killblow

Murderstrike

Murderkill

etc...

#86 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10418 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the late 90's was pretty good.

Online
#87 Edited by PowerHerc (81712 posts) - - Show Bio

The 50's might've been worse but aside from then the 90's was probably the worst decade for comics.

#88 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: Sorry but Fatal Attractions, Infinity Gauntlet, Knightfall, and the brief point in time when Spawn was actually good all took place in the 90s, where as the current era brought us AVX, Siege and all the Quesada era Marvel bulls**t. If I have to choose between the decade of X-cutioners Song and the decade of Schism I'll pick the latter any time.

#89 Posted by PowerHerc (81712 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: Sorry but Fatal Attractions, Infinity Gauntlet, Knightfall, and the brief point in time when Spawn was actually good all took place in the 90s, where as the current era brought us AVX, Siege and all the Quesada era Marvel bulls**t. If I have to choose between the decade of X-cutioners Song and the decade of Schism I'll pick the latter any time.

That's cool. Opinions vary.

#90 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

To answer the question, yes.

#91 Edited by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio
#92 Edited by Billy Batson (57799 posts) - - Show Bio

The unitalicised has nothing to do with the quality of current comics, and that's what the thread is about. Transport modern technology to the nineties and it suddenly gets better?

The topic is "the worst ERA of comics". On the technical side it is better when comics can reach a wider audience.

Just because you don't like the big two's stuff, doesn't mean the whole medium sucks.

Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol came out of the 90s (the greatest series ever).

Enough said.

It actually came out of the late eighties.

BB

#93 Edited by judasnixon (6229 posts) - - Show Bio

As much $#!% you want to give the 90's...... That's when Vertigo made comics brilliant.....

#94 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

It would be lying to say that were no good moments that came from it. the 90s known oversaturation of first issue constant killing character and any pandering with the use of violence sex etc to be mature a lot of terrible stories.

To ask that this is the worst well currently there are many webcomics that would be under consideration which means in that mess you can find some treasure but there is a lot amateur junk to be found from it. It does not help that at this time there is a lot of character focusing arcs which have gone ridiculous. Then there is the imported Japanese paperback aka manga which may partly saved the 90s but now it is starting to be predictable. However I think many of us feel nostalgic at this time and we feel that there is something we forgot.

#95 Edited by nintendork666 (284 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably not.

#96 Edited by Nova`Prime` (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

Or anything written or drawn by rob liefeld.

So by anything does that include Cable, Deadpool, Stryfe, Feral, Domino, and yes even Youngblood (comic might not have been good but the character were pretty cool). Not to mention helped co-found Image comics.

#97 Posted by Lady_Rosalina (180 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity said:

Or anything written or drawn by rob liefeld.

So by anything does that include Cable, Deadpool, Stryfe, Feral, Domino, and yes even Youngblood (comic might not have been good but the character were pretty cool). Not to mention helped co-found Image comics.

Cable and Deadpool may have been created by Liefeld, but their current characterization was created by entirely different writers. Before that they were generic murder hobos.

As for Youngblood, Darkthornn kills any coolness the comic may have had with his sheer lack of originality and how poor of an homage he is.

#98 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: I can promise you most of the comic fans I knew in the 90s didn't give a s**t about Youngblood at any point in time, except for maybe Badrock but that was it, almost all conversation about Image back then was focused squarely on Spawn or Savage Dragon and occasionally Topcow. The only reason anyone cared about Leifeld was X-Force and Cable.

And I can assure you that what I meant was that 99% of every comic in the 90s was *like* Youngblood.

Dumb, adolescent, poorly drawn and hilariously over the top in their attempts at being

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEMEEEEEE!!!!!11!!!1!OMGWTFBBQ!!!!1!!1!!!!

#99 Posted by RustyRoy (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

Why does everyone hate the 90's? I mean, I haven't read a majority of it but I love it.

#100 Posted by sinestro_GL (3067 posts) - - Show Bio

What? Not the 90's!

Had to be the 1950s or 1960s...which ever one had Bat-Mite!