is T'challa really on Reed's level

@yung_ancient_one: Mr. Fantastic (the smartest man in Marvel) has said that Banner is smarter than Stark, Banner has been acknowledged by many to be the world's greatest mind when it comes to gamma radiation, is noted to a top class nuclear physicist, Stark himself has admitted that Banner has a more diverse set of knowledge than him, and these scans I posted, even though most are humorous, are examples of the multiple times Banner has outsmarted Stark, and left him flabbergasted with his intellect.

but why banner over t'challa?

@wolverine08: A compliments, witty responses, and beating him in a "game" for me isn't enough to be fully convinced. However, I do respect Banner a lot more than I did before. I personally want to know what has Banner invented. Still I am more lenient to the idea than I was before.

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1. Reed Richards

2. Bruce Banner

3. Dr. Doom

4. Hank Pym

5. Tony Stark

6. Hank Mccoy

7. T`Challa

8. Amadeus Cho

@yung_ancient_one: Mr. Fantastic (the smartest man in Marvel) has said that Banner is smarter than Stark, Banner has been acknowledged by many to be the world's greatest mind when it comes to gamma radiation, is noted to a top class nuclear physicist, Stark himself has admitted that Banner has a more diverse set of knowledge than him.

The problem with Banner is that ever since he became Hulk, between running from the government, controlling the Hulk, etc. he doesn't have time to be building things. Only recently has he allied with the government in the Indestructible Hulk series, and he has been building a lot of high tech inventions for Shield.

@glabal500: BP has out smarted Doom actually

AN IS EVERYONE FORGETTING MR.SINISTER HE HAS TO BE UP THERE

An I do not see Banner above BP

@wolverine08: Valid point, but I am not fully convinced just yet. However, I repeat myself, I am becoming to almost agree with the idea that Banner is smarter than Stark. Hell, maybe tomorrow I'll wake up and decide its ok... I mean Stark is still Rich.

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@magnificentstorm: BP outsmarting Doom?

sounds like PIS

Doom and Reed are pretty much neck in neck for smartest man on marvel earth

BP, Stark, Banner, Pym etc. are not at that level

No, but unlike Reed T'challa has a life.

@banestrokelobogrundybatarrow: interesting,

Reed is the smartest man in marvel earth, he has a life

@wolverine08 said:

@yung_ancient_one: Mr. Fantastic (the smartest man in Marvel) has said that Banner is smarter than Stark, Banner has been acknowledged by many to be the world's greatest mind when it comes to gamma radiation, is noted to a top class nuclear physicist, Stark himself has admitted that Banner has a more diverse set of knowledge than him, and these scans I posted, even though most are humorous, are examples of the multiple times Banner has outsmarted Stark, and left him flabbergasted with his intellect.

People keep saying Banner is smarter but I'm still not buying it. Tony has decades of better feats and consistency of being smarter than banner. Trying to change to change that in a few years doesn't convince me because it isn't consistent enough. Tony has and should be smarter than banner based simply on consistency.

On a side note, hank looks weird. o.0

@norrinboltagonprime21: He evolved. All New X-Men story I believe. The solution to his previous evolution of looking like a cat, a 3rd evolution.

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Reed's like consist of constantly searching for knowledge. T'Challa is a King with duties and responsibilities to carry. Reed has sufficient enough amount of money to not worry about bills, and his wife takes care of all the extra stuff.

Doom for me is very overrated and he is quite dumb for me. His arrogance makes him dumb. The enemy is weak and instead of neutralizing the enemy he boasts, giving the enemy a chance to recover.

II. Reed was outsmarted by Pym once. Banner can outsmart Stark. Just because Doom 9/10 can beat T'Challa doesn't take away T'Challa's 1/10 victory.

Outsmarting someone once or a few times doesn't mean they are totally smarter or that it was PIS. Again a 9/10 is still 1/10.

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I see it's still real to you...

Mm, Zola is the first human genetic engineer in the MU, interestingly enough.

Dark Beast? Can't be too sure about that, to be honest.

I'd say Doom, personally. Reason being that not only is he a genius scientist himself, but he's also mastered mystic arts - which is basically science that one can't explain. I may be wrong though.

@wolverine08: Yeah love the quote in the issue that goes something along these lines: "I want to be known for my intellect, Reed Richards and Tony Stark are out there saving lives with their brains. TONY BLOODY STARK!!!" The quote is more than likely horribly, horribly wrong but you get the drift, plus something about the Phoenix-buster but that's too much detail.

@magnificentstorm -_- I mentioned Sinister two or three posts before yours.

@veshark I was actually trying to prove Sinister but worded it badly. I was trying to state the fact that an alternate Beast (who is 6th smartest, I believe) was taught/apprenticed by Sinister.

For what its worth, Dr. Doom is the smartest man in the MU, imo. Interesting question here, and I want to ask as im personally a little biased, where you say Parker falls, overall?

@maccyd

Dark Beast is 6th smartest?

@deaditegonzo:

Parker is Top 20 on Earth. I say Top 10-12 solely superheroes in Marvel. I am totally Bias though.

II. If Doom is the smartest why hasn't he been able to beat Reed? Also Why did the Council of Reed all kill their respected Doom nemesis of their Universe?

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@veshark: It was a divergent timeline, if I remember correctly which means he retains the same amount of intelligence as 616's Beast. His knowledge might be different but his intelligence should remain the same.

@deaditegonzo: I'd actually say Doc Ock would fall higher imo.

@yung_ancient_one It's more to do with his personality than his intelligence. His hatred of working with others and overconfidence often cause him to fail.

The story telling reason is obvious. But , for example in Secret Wars, Doom outsmarted Galactus AND THEN CLASSIC BEYONDER. He was all powerful, but for obvious reasons, he cant be like that all the time.

@deaditegonzo: Plus those dooms had to fight multiple Reeds on their own and some Reeds had Infinity Gauntlets and Ultimate Nullifiers.

@maccyd: Yes but overconfidence is a slight sign of stupidity for me, so he can't be the smartest. Reed asked Scot Lang to look at his dna to verify if his readings were correct. Reed at the beginning of FF told Doom, "Hey you might want to double check your math." He was trying to help Doom but in Doom's overconfidence he doesn't double check it and BOOM explosion. Dr.Doom is born.

If he loses a chess game because he got cocky and didn't make a move that would have been a instant check-mate is stupid. You can't tell me he's smarter. He made a stupid mistake. He easily could have had a check-mate if he decided to move the Bishop forward, but because it doesn't matter since he is going to win regardless. However, he actually loses for being so over confident is dumb.

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I think the difference lies in that T'Challa doesn't have time to fully commit himself to science like Reed, Stark, Pym and the others can since he has a country to run (Doom just sends a bot).

Also, unlike the others I think T'Challa is willing to take greater risks and make greater sacrifices than they are. Like Pym and Reed reduce all the risks to a minimum before they proceed while T'Challa might just go with it if he needs to (Doomwar).

@yung_ancient_one: Now we're going into different type of intelligences here. For example, Einstein may be one of the greatest minds of the 20th century but he couldn't learn how to tie his shoelaces.

@deaditegonzo: For the sake of debating, didn't Beyonder intend to have Doom defeat him? Also didn't he technically fail to keep Galactus power? What is stopping the possibility of Reed being able to do the same? Beside the fact that his personality would never think about taking Galactus power, when in reality his mind would go to how to I save everyone.

It is great feats for Doom but I still think he's number 2.

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@maccyd: Great point! However, if we're going with your example, lets try this.

If Einstein had an equal in intelligence except he actually knew how to tie his shoelaces, wouldn't that make his equal slightly superior?

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@yung_ancient_one: Great argument! However tiny the difference is, yes he'd seem superior.

You must also remember Reed isn't perfect either. He can easily overstrain himself, often cause himself to go for unhealthy lengths of time without necessities and his lack of social skills compared to Doom's diplomatic skills among others.

How about Reed's daughter Valeria?

Same amount of natural intellect perhaps, but apparently he diverges a lot from Beast. Whereas 616 Beast is an expert in multiple fields, Dark Beast is solely focused on genetics. Just worth noting.

The reason Doom is below Reed is because his arrogance holds him back, if he could acknowledge that sometimes he can be wrong the I think he would surpass Redd.

Also this:

@tachikoman said:

I dont think that people give each scientist enough cred. I think each is the smartest in their own field but in overall I dont think each of them are like Miles apart in over-all intelligence I dont think they each are far apart at all.

An @glabal500 It was in DoomWar both Doom an BP outsmarted each other in the comic but BP was the winner in the end.

An @yung_ancient_one I think its would be more Doom6/10 BP4/10 or even 5/5

Im sorry I didn't see the post. But I think Sinister is there with the Smartest of them he just about had immortality an he had an entire civilization for who knows how long without anyone knowing.

#5 Posted by Wolverine08 (1981 posts) - 17 hours, 40 minutes ago - Show Bio

People who say BP is close to Reed in intelligence are not "fanboys". They are pretty accurate. BP is very close to Reed in intelligence, but is not his equal.

This

I´m not going to try to SUM UP overall "intelligence" for, as many people have mentioned here, there are all kinds of intelligence and, the fact that such and such character has at times outsmarted another one doesn´t necessarily means that said character is truly "smarter" or better than the other one. It depends a lot on the circumstances - meaning the writer, his likes and biases - and plus anybody can have a bad day.

So instead I´m going to concentrate in overall consistency of feats and achievements over the years, and putting more of an emphasis on hard science / technological genius, as I believe the whole superhero comic book genre is in itself often biased towards better considering more highly that type of genius (intelligence). That being said, my top 10 list is:

10) High Evolutionary

9) Magneto

8) T´Challa

7) Tony Stark

6) Mandarin

5) Bruce Banner

4) Leader

3) Hank Pym

2) Doctor Doom

1) Reed Richards

Oh, by the way my list pertains to Earth´s inhabitants, I haven´t entered cosmic beings into the equation.

@doctor_bong_crosby: I know this is off topic, but your username? It's genius.

Lol, thanks. Just don´t ask me to sing...

T'challa and Reed? Not even close. But I would decline to numerically list characters in order because intelligence can be neither judged nor even quantified until and unless a viable definition of the term can be reached by consensus. Dr.s Richards and Doom are reasonably approximate in most theoretical scientific disciplines until magick is discussed, to which Reed has professed to not subscribe. Is T'challa even roughly equivalent in any field to Xavier, Magneto, MacTaggert, McCoy, Banner, Stark, Forge, Nemesis, Pym, Sinister, or even Frost in their respective fields? Has he ever come close to conceiving a mind-switching or a transmat or a time-travel device? Has he created or cloned living organisms, or manipulated genomes? Has he changed the way the world works or thinks with the fruits of his ingenuity? Perhaps it's safe to say that T'challa is the most accomplished character on the African continent, or even the southern hemisphere, but attempting to compare the man with the intellectual heavyweights is a tad presumptuous to say the least.

I always thought Hank, Reed, Doom, and Banner were all smarter than T'Challa, but I honestly don't think Beast and Iron Man should be ahead of him. Beast is a genius, but I never thought he was above BP, stark I was a little iffy of, and thought they might've been neck and neck.

But based on BP's upgrades on his own suit which essentially absorbs massive forces, able to turn invisible, and being equipped with force fields. As well as him along with reed creating an anti matter device, as someone else already mentioned, I thought it showed that T'Challa could be as good if not better than tony when it comes to tech. But that's not his style. Same with Reed, banner, and Pym. You combine that with the entire history of intelligence and wisdom of every Black Panther ever, in addition to his own educational studies, and I think you have a guy that seems to be ahead of beast and Iron Man.

And when you consider the fact that he is the onlyone of the entire group nearly as knowledgeable in magic and the supernatural as much as he is in science, and the fact that he's unquestionably one of if not the best tactician of the group and the marvel universe in general, a case can be made that he's the most intelligent man in marvel when it comes to being well rounded in all forms of intelligence (science, technology, tactics, magic, supernatural, etc.)

This is a great thread.

@outside_85: thats a cop-out, there's no evidence if t'challa dedicated himself to science he would be as smart as reed

@novi_homines: marvel has said Reed is the smartest man in the Marvel universe

not t'challa

Reed's entire life is based around science. T'Challa's entire life, for the most part, is based around combat, and being a proper king for his nation, something reed doesn't have the burden of worrying about. Yet Black Panther still finds time to be the 7th smartest man in marvel. I think that's evidence enough.

@novi_homines: ok, but that doesn't prove that t'challa is more intelligent then reed

marvel has said many times that reed is the smartest man on marvel earth, not t'challa

Every comic book fan in the world knows this. There is no point in pointing out the obvious.

@novi_homines: your the BP fanboy that tried to say a case can be made that he is the most intellignet man in the marvel universe, when marvel has said reed is

Read my post again; nowhere in it do I say T'Challa would be on Reed's level if he had the chance. But there is no denying he is being affected by his other duties that have nothing to do with science, where as Reed and Pym can do science pretty much 24/7 and will be better off as a result.

What's your definition of intelligence?

I'm just curious.