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#1 Posted by kgb725 (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

Many people constantly state that Bruce is what a human can be at his peak but Cap arguably is better than him without the serum so who do you think is the better all around person and hero

#2 Edited by TheManInTheShoe (3874 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm, this is really tough. I'd like to think the characters are two sides of the same coin. They are both symbols (patriotic and fear) and they are both heroic. However, when Cap lost Ian he moved forth, to save him, but when Bats lost Damian he hit a wall before picking himself up. I don't know what to answer really!

#3 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (32223 posts) - - Show Bio

Respect is arguably more powerful than fear

#4 Edited by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

yes

#5 Edited by Wolverine08 (38193 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman and Captain America are both equally great. They are both committed to helping others and improving the world. Batman has his inner demons, but he concurs them to be a symbol of good, and this makes him an equally great person as Steve. In short, they both great, and equals in terms of being a good person, and as an all around hero. They are two of the best heroes ever to walk foot in comics.

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#6 Posted by Immortal777 (6705 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32223 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Yet they are both respected in their respective universes.

Criminals don't respect Batman, they fear him on the other hand I have seen criminals swap sides because they respect Cap

#8 Posted by PowerHerc (80827 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America is the better person, the better fighter, the better hero and the better character.

#9 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (5977 posts) - - Show Bio

It all depends on opinion, but I prefer Batman.

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#10 Posted by Immortal777 (6705 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Yet they are both respected in their respective universes.

Criminals don't respect Batman, they fear him on the other hand I have seen criminals swap sides because they respect Cap

I kind of find it hard to care if the criminals respect someone or not.

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#11 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce is the perfect male specimen. He doesn't need super powers or serum.

#12 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32223 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Yet they are both respected in their respective universes.

Criminals don't respect Batman, they fear him on the other hand I have seen criminals swap sides because they respect Cap

I kind of find it hard to care if the criminals respect someone or not.

Well that doesn't really mean anything

#13 Posted by Immortal777 (6705 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Yet they are both respected in their respective universes.

Criminals don't respect Batman, they fear him on the other hand I have seen criminals swap sides because they respect Cap

I kind of find it hard to care if the criminals respect someone or not.

Well that doesn't really mean anything

No what doesn't mean anything is them being respected or not as a reason for why they are a better person or hero it's their individual choices and actions that should decide that.

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#14 Edited by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I like both equally.

#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32223 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Yet they are both respected in their respective universes.

Criminals don't respect Batman, they fear him on the other hand I have seen criminals swap sides because they respect Cap

I kind of find it hard to care if the criminals respect someone or not.

Well that doesn't really mean anything

No what doesn't mean anything is them being respected or not as a reason for why they are a better person or hero it's their individual choices and actions that should decide that.

Cap has erned respect by his actions Bats has erabed fear. Respect begets trust fear does not

#16 Edited by Immortal777 (6705 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@immortal777 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Yet they are both respected in their respective universes.

Criminals don't respect Batman, they fear him on the other hand I have seen criminals swap sides because they respect Cap

I kind of find it hard to care if the criminals respect someone or not.

Well that doesn't really mean anything

No what doesn't mean anything is them being respected or not as a reason for why they are a better person or hero it's their individual choices and actions that should decide that.

Cap has erned respect by his actions Bats has erabed fear. Respect begets trust fear does not

Yet Batman has earned respect for his actions so like I said respect means nothing here. A person can respect another person whether they agree with that persons choices and actions in life or not. That's nice that respect can bring trust but you can repsect a person you don't trust.

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#17 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5218 posts) - - Show Bio

I see them as equal. On the right day for either, I could see both beating the other.

#18 Posted by The Stegman (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, in terms of respect, I think both warrent a lot of respect in their respective universes, but I'd give the edge to Cap. He's an icon, a soldier and symbol of freedom and hope, everyone respects him even if they don't LIKE him or agree with his choices.

In terms of who's the better hero, it's absolutely equal. Both are great.

In terms of physiques. Cap is obviously the better specimen, he's stronger, faster, more agile, though I believe that Batman IS the better fighter.

#19 Posted by Wolverine08 (38193 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman:

I agree with on everything besides fighting. Cap is an equal to Bruce in fighting.

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#20 Posted by jackbensley777 (636 posts) - - Show Bio

I see them as equal. On the right day for either, I could see both beating the other.

on a marvel dc crossover bats beat cap.. they both are prep and tactical masters.. but bruce has money and more H2H skill roughly(due to his martial arts) their both the pinnacle of a human being.. the only differenc e is cap neecded a syrum while bruce is freaking batman!!!! cap is morally better

#21 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: I disagree. Cap hasn't been through the things Bruce has so Bruce is dealing with inner demons that don't exist for cap. Better character is a matter of opinion.

#22 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

I respect Bruce more as far as work ethicand perseverance because he actually had to work for his skill and his athletecism rather than having it shot into him through a syringe

#23 Edited by Wolverine08 (38193 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

Cap may have gotten his powers with a serum, but even before he became the perfect specimen, he had the heart of a lion.

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#24 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I get that but Bruce had to lift and run and train to get to peak human. Steve jut had to be a good guy/rightplacerighttime

#25 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@wolverine08: I get that but Bruce had to lift and run and train to get to peak human. Steve jut had to be a good guy/rightplacerighttime

Not to get in a Cap vs Bats debate...

But we have to remember that Steve was sickly and riddled with a bunch of ailments, he was a poor street orphan with no money or resources like Bruce to travel, and he did train after getting the Serum.

#26 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: I get that but Brice still had to loft the weights and run the sprints. I know cap trained to gain the tactical expertise but the strength,agility,speed etc. Can be attributed to the serum.

#27 Edited by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@veshark: I get that but Brice still had to loft the weights and run the sprints. I know cap trained to gain the tactical expertise but the strength,agility,speed etc. Can be attributed to the serum.

I know, but I'm just putting the comparison into context. Obviously with the Serum, training was a lot easier for Cap - he still had to work on his fighting styles et cetera but it probably wasn't as difficult.

But one has to remember that Bruce had a lot of opportunities that Steve didn't have. Steve wasn't physically well, he didn't have Bruce's money to travel the world either.

#28 Edited by viin (534 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is more rounded. Cap is prolly stronger but I think Batman...

#29 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: If we're getting technical, if it wasn't for Bruce's parents dieing, he never would've cared to be a hero. He would've been just some snobby rich kid.

Captain America, even before the serum wanted to be a hero, and he did stand up for it. Captain America is the true hero here. He always wanted to be one, and he always stands for the right thing, freedom and justice. Captain America is WAY better than Batman will ever be.

#30 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is a pretty cynical muther-hubber. He has a knock-out/incapacitation contingency plan for all of his closest comrades. That's pretty low faith in other people, whereas I think Cap will give people a chance before he starts questioning their trust. Because of that, in terms of character Cap might be 'better' but in terms of heroism, Cap destroys Batman. Cap is the guy to "lay down on the wire and let the other man pass." I'm not convinced Batman is.

#31 Edited by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: If we want to get technical Here....if bruce's parents hadn't been shot he still would have been a hero albeit one in a suit instead of a cowl. His parents were and they were the ones raising him. And I'm not arguing that Bruce wouldhave become batman if they hadn't died. He would have had 0 interest. But that doesn't make my point any less potent. Batman worked for something that was shot into cap. and that bit about cap being netter is just opinion.

#32 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@sideburnguru: Of we want to get technical

Here....if bruce's parents hadn't been shot he still would have been a hero albeit one in a suit instead of a cowl. His parents were and they were the ones raising him. And I'm not arguing that Bruce wouldhave become batman if they hadn't died. He would have had 0 interest. But that doesn't make my point any less potent. Batman worked for something that was shot into cap. and that bit about cap being netter is just opinion.

To be entirely fair....

If it wasn't for WWII, would Cap have ever been a hero? He still would've been a good person, no doubt, but the war served as a catalyst for him. He felt that it was his responsibility as an American to be a soldier, and from there he eventually grew into his modern superheroic identity.

#33 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@sideburnguru: Of we want to get technical

Here....if bruce's parents hadn't been shot he still would have been a hero albeit one in a suit instead of a cowl. His parents were and they were the ones raising him. And I'm not arguing that Bruce wouldhave become batman if they hadn't died. He would have had 0 interest. But that doesn't make my point any less potent. Batman worked for something that was shot into cap. and that bit about cap being netter is just opinion.

No, it's all around true in acts of heroism.

So what if Cap needed the shot? Batman needed his parents to be put down. And when was it even mentioned that Bruce would've been a hero? He wouldn't invented things. He wouldn't have fought crime, or put his life on the line.

Cap would've, with or without the serum.

#34 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: I agree. Like I said in an earlier post if bruce's parents hadn't died he would have still become forgave hero. Although he would have been wearing a suit rather than the cowl.

Much like his parents. And he was like any rich kid would be. A spoiled brat but he had to grow up quickly once his parents died

#35 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Yeah. He still would've stood up against crime, and would've involved himself in anything he could've for the righteous of all people.

To say "WITHOUT THE SHOT" is just b.s. to his origin story, hence I'm saying "Without his parents dieing.". In that argument, it still would've came out to Cap being a hero, while Bruce being just a rich kid until proved differently.

Hence, Cap is the better hero.

#36 Edited by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: What acts of heroism has cap done that Bruce hasn't? Bruce just a few issues ago protected a gay kid from bullies so he's every bit the hero cap is. And my whole point for posting was to point out how I respected bruce's work ethic more because he had to work for his skill. And if you read the comics bruce's parents fought for justice and for Gotham relentlessly. Even to the point where Alfreda father feared for their lives. You don't think Bruce would have followed I'm their footsteps? Brice would have still been a genius and still used his money and status to help Gotham even if he never became batman

#37 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Right. Without anything showing the such. Really? Standing up to bullies is what Cap did on the norm. Bruce probably protected the kid because he had the muscle. Cap, for a fact probably would've done it without the serum. Cap had to work for it too, he had to have the kind and noble heart. Also, Cap wasn't brought up in the rich family either. Where Bruce also has THAT advantage. Hell, if it wasn't for the cash, Bruce wouldn't be any type of hero.

Bottom line is, Cap always had the morality to do the right thing, and he also doesn't have to "strike fear" into criminals. Cap is the better hero.

#38 Edited by joshmightbe (24474 posts) - - Show Bio

Better is a relative term based solely on opinion and Yes Cap is better

#39 Posted by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: I don't really think it's fair to say that Cap is a better person. Bruce cares deeply, but because of how he was made a victim in the past and how he lost people he was close to, he strives for control and as a result, doesn't openly express how he feels. Doesn't mean that he doesn't care though. I don't think Superman would love him so much, if Batman was just the jerk Frank Miller made him out to be in All Star Batman.

@sog7dc: So? Cap lived through WWII and the Great Depression. He's a veteran, who saw good people torn to bits by heavy artillery shells, while also seeing the horror of Nazi death camps. Even now, he's a man out of time, still coming to grips with how all he ever loved in the past is dead. Cap has been through way more shit than Batman. Batman is just a darker person, because the major, traumatic event in his life happened when he was very young. That's it. Also, I don't think it's cool to think Bruce "earned" his athleticism when the guy has unlimited resources to pursue all of the physical things he wants. It's not like Captain America was made a martial arts master from the serum either. Even without the serum, and as a skinny guy, Captain America has beaten skilled assassins. I love both characters, but c'mon.

#40 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: Once again that's just your opinion. Watch this: Batman is the better hero. Does that make it fact? No it's just opinion

You don't answer my question. What has cap done A's far A's heroism that Bruce hasn't?

And for one second can we acknowledge Bruce was a child hen his parents died? How many noble heroic 8 year olds do you know? And Bruce protected the kid right after his son died so that shows how he shelves his own

Problems for the sake of others. I'll grant you that Bruce had a financial advantage but regardless of money the weights still had to be lifted by Bruce. Cap didn't have to lift anything. And Bruce would be a hero. Asi already stated Bruce would have been champion of industry If you will. He would have built orphanages and schools and playgrounds etc. And Bruce does not have to strike fear he chooses too. Bruce uses fear because he has demons that cap does not have to deal with. Cap didn't watch his parents die he didn't find the dead body of an "adopted" son. Batman is every bit the hero cap is and cap is every bit the hero Bruce is but my entire reason for posting here was to point out the fact that bruce had to work for something that was indeed handed to cap. And in reference to what you said earlier, cap is the guy to lay on the wire, while Bruce is the guy to have planned for the wire

#41 Edited by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

Bruce also had the advantage as someone else mentioned TO train, with such great equipment. You're being ignorant.

Bruce watched his parents die, that is sad. Cap had to watch millions of soliders die right next to him, friends. Cap watched his best friend die. Cap saw alot of things happen around him, just as much IF NOT MORE than Bruce did.

I didn't say that earlier either. Bruce is the guy to waste the time trying to make the plan for the wire, while Cap would just solve it by sacrificing himself. Also, you keep repeating yourself after MANY others have countered your damn point. "WELL, BRUCE WORKED FOR IT.". After the fact he got all the money, after his parents died because that's when he truly gave a damn about criminal justice. Yes, Bruce would've made buildings, he would've been a nice guy. He still would've cared about the money. He still would've just been another business leader. He wouldn't have been on the streets, or even owning a Bat-Cave.

Where as even without the serum, Cap would've still stood up to people, even if the odds were against him. And it honestly doesn't matter what you think, Cap is the better hero by definition. Instead of trying to scare people into justice, Cap does the right thing. Cap is the hero, while Batman is on the brink of being an anti-hero. Cap would stand for the righteous. Bruce would, but he'd have to do so with fear. Cap would've stood for the righteous even without the serum. Bruce would've been in a building placing down more buildings.

Go ahead and read @ohitsthatguy's post. He nails it. Cap has seen more than Bruce has. Cap has had JUST as much tragedy, if not more. Yet, he doesn't have to "strike fear" to get the point across.

#42 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@ohitsthatguy: That's highly debatable that cap ha been through more than Bruce. I definitely disagree but that's a debate for another day. And regardless of monetary resources batman had to earn his athleticism. I can pay for a golds gym membership til I'm blue in the face but I still have to work to et results. Cap did not have to do that work. That's a fact. And o have already acknowledged that the skill came from practice but how hard is practice when you don't fatigue? Not hard at all.

#43 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@ohitsthatguy: That's highly debatable that cap ha been through more than Bruce. I definitely disagree but that's a debate for another day. And regardless of monetary resources batman had to earn his athleticism. I can pay for a golds gym membership til I'm blue in the face but I still have to work to et results. Cap did not have to do that work. That's a fact. And o have already acknowledged that the skill came from practice but how hard is practice when you don't fatigue? Not hard at all.

How is that even a debate? Damn, you sound so biased right now.

#44 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: An 8 year old boy watched his parents bleed to death....he found one of the only people he ever connected with die at the hands of a crazed clown. It is highly debateable. You sound very biased to me mister "caps the better hero"

#45 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

This question makes absolutely no sense. But in any case, I prefer Batman.

#46 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@sideburnguru: An 8 year old boy watched his parents bleed to death....he found one of the only people he ever connected with die at the hands of a crazed clown. It is highly debateable. You sound very biased to me mister "caps the better hero"

Cap has connected with his rogue list at times. Cap has had to turn his back on the government to uphold true justice. Cap has went through wars, watching people getting torn up left and right, CLOSE people, who could even be considered a second family, Bucky's death, his OWN death, having to leave the only life he ever knew, being put into a whole new generation.

How is that even CLOSE to debatable? Yes, Cap is the better hero, and I will take that anywhere with me. People can overhype Batman's OP b.s. all they want, they can see he beats "anyone with prep", say whatever you will. I'm never going to accept someone trying to say "Well, Batman is a better hero than Captain America" because that is the biggest pile of bull shit I've ever heard.

#47 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio
@kgb725 said:

Many people constantly state that Bruce is what a human can be at his peak but Cap arguably is better than him without the serum so who do you think is the better all around person and hero

Without the serum, combat-wise? It's Batman. Guys, I love Cap too, but remember that Steve Rogers was a sickly guy, small of frame and fairly gentle of demeanor before stumbling into the super soldier program. Bruce Wayne has reached the nebulous "peak of human potential" on his own, without outside intervention (yes, he was trained, but he was never given a miracle serum with permanent effects). As for a better person? Steve. He's friendlier, generally works better with teams and has a strong moral compass. Although I think Cap has killed on a number of occasions, and Batman refuses to, I don't know that that can be the sole metric for defining whether comic book characters are "good people."

#48 Edited by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: I think you're the one being ignorant. Refusing to see the other side of the debate.

It's a fact that even If Freddy roach trains me I still have to do work. Bruce still had to do work. Cap did not.

Bruce saw parents bleed to death when he was a child. He found a "son" dead. His real son died he's dealt with A's much trauma As cap

Well

I apologize If I falsely acused you of saying something that you did not say. But dying for a problem is better than solving it? That's kinda silly

I present to you that not a SINGLE person has mounted a credible argument A's to why money helped Bruce become athletic. It does not matter how much money you have to train it matters the effort you put in to train. It matters if you're willing to push past pain and limits. Regardless of monetary advantages Bruce had to work for something that was gifted to Steve

I think your wrong about the character Bruce would have had If

His parents raises him into afldulthood but I'll admit my point on this is greatly speculation, however credible but speculation monetheless so I'll concede on the basis of speculation

And dude can we be nicer to eachother? Golden rule. I have never argued that cap

Isn't the standard of heroism. But I believe Bruce stands shoulder to shoulder with him on that pedestal

And lastly Bruce doesn't "have" tostroke fear he chooses to. There's a difference in choice and necessity. Can we be a little less conentious now? Please?

#49 Edited by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss said:
@kgb725 said:

Many people constantly state that Bruce is what a human can be at his peak but Cap arguably is better than him without the serum so who do you think is the better all around person and hero

Without the serum, combat-wise? It's Batman. Guys, I love Cap too, but remember that Steve Rogers was a sickly guy, small of frame and fairly gentle of demeanor before stumbling into the super soldier program. Bruce Wayne has reached the nebulous "peak of human potential" on his own, without outside intervention (yes, he was trained, but he was never given a miracle serum with permanent effects). As for a better person? Steve. He's friendlier, generally works better with teams and has a strong moral compass. Although I think Cap has killed on a number of occasions, and Batman refuses to, I don't know that that can be the sole metric for defining whether comic book characters are "good people."

Batman hung a person by the neck from his Batwing and let him stay there. He kicked snapped someone's neck on purpose.

Cap killed when he had to, and was left no other choice. Unless you got scans of the people he's killed outside of nazis from the early comics.

#50 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@sideburnguru: I think you're the one being ignorant. Refusing to see the other side of the debate.

It's a fact that even If Freddy roach trains me I still have to do work. Bruce still had to do work. Cap did not.

Bruce saw parents bleed to death when he was a child. He found a "son" dead. His real son died he's dealt with A's much trauma As cap

Well

I apologize If I falsely acused you of saying something that you did not say. But dying for a problem is better than solving it? That's kinda silly

I present to you that not a SINGLE person has mounted a credible argument A's to why money helped Bruce become athletic. It does not matter how much money you have to train it matters the effort you put in to train. It matters if you're willing to push past pain and limits. Regardless of monetary advantages Bruce had to work for something that was gifted to Steve

I think your wrong about the character Bruce would have had If

His parents raises him into afldulthood but I'll admit my point on this is greatly speculation, however credible but speculation monetheless so I'll concede on the basis of speculation

And dude can we be nicer to eachother? Golden rule. I have never argued that cap

Isn't the standard of heroism. But I believe Bruce stands shoulder to shoulder with him on that pedestal

And lastly Bruce doesn't "have" tostroke fear he chooses to. There's a difference in choice and necessity. Can we be a little less conentious now? Please?

1. Bruce wouldn't have done the work without the parents. Also, as I said. He had the money to get the finest equipment. He did work for it, but it was never highlighted on the fact "HE WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET IT". The comics just say, he worked out.

2. That doesn't change anything. Cap has been the witness of more deaths, who were as close to him as family was to Bruce.

3. "Gifted to Cap." This is what pisses me off with you. He still had to go through different trials to earn it. The fact he was a hero,and that they needed someone with good intention was the first part. He risked his life taking the project. They told him he'd become the ultimate hero, and he was dedicated to the ideal, risking his own life to even TAKE THE CHANCE for the serum.

4. We don't know that. All we know is that Batman has always had to use fear.

I'll be nicer, sure.