• 51 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by labarith (670 posts) - - Show Bio

For example, in marvel they often use the term "muties" as a racist term. 
 
If you used this term as a derogatory term referring to Marvel's mutants, is this a form of racism?  Even though mutants don't actually exist?

#2 Posted by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna say no. It's like hating Kryptonians...they aren't real so you don't have to feel ashamed of using the term mutie.

#3 Posted by labarith (670 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah, but if Klingons existed, hating them would be racist. 
 
So why does whether or not you're racist turn on facts about the world that are outside of your control? 
 
There is a difference, I think, besides joking (say, what many black people do when they use the "n" word), and using racist terminology qua racist terminology.

#4 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio
@PrinceIMC said:
I'm gonna say no. It's like hating Kryptonians...they aren't real so you don't have to feel ashamed of using the term mutie.
Wh...What do you...What do you MEAN Kryptonians aren't real?
#5 Posted by Mercy_ (92629 posts) - - Show Bio

Discrimination is discrimination.

Moderator
#6 Posted by Shadow_Thief (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

The trick is to hate everyone equally. ;)

#7 Posted by labarith (670 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadow_Thief said:
The trick is to hate everyone equally. ;)
No, that'd be equally unfair and biased. 
  
The trick is to hate people for what they personally do wrong - that is to say to treat murderers as murderers, liars as liars, and the hard working mentally retarded student who tries, and fails, to pass his tests as if he is a hard worker (who deserves good grades), not as a failure. 
 
The trick is to treat people how they deserve.  The problem with racism is that even if most people of a certain race (say because of their culture) are evil, this does not mean that they all are.
#8 Edited by Stuka69 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

OMG! This is pure gold! 
 
Can make believe creatures feel bad about your racism towards them? And how bad you should feel about it? Jesus effing Christ on a cross, mr. Labarith, dude, you just broke the fourth wall and political correctness records like few men before...

#9 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

Your answer lies in the question.  If you have to use the word 'racist' to ask if something is racist then yes it is racist.  That's like asking "Are funny blonde jokes funny?"

#10 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12586 posts) - - Show Bio

yes

#11 Posted by Westlife (1798 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadow_Thief said:
The trick is to hate everyone equally. ;)
#12 Posted by Billy Batson (57788 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a positive. 

BB

#13 Posted by .Mistress Redhead. (27083 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say yes.

#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I can understand people being upset by people discriminating against races that actually exist but if I make a joke about Kryptonians or Klingons and someone seriously gets angry at me for it I will never respect that person's intelligence again it's like getting mad at someone for calling Santa fat who the f**k cares he isn't real.

#15 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
I think so.
#16 Posted by cattlebattle (12592 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
Okay I can understand people being upset by people discriminating against races that actually exist but if I make a joke about Kryptonians or Klingons and someone seriously gets angry at me for it I will never respect that person's intelligence again it's like getting mad at someone for calling Santa fat who the f**k cares he isn't real.
QFT......
 
Don't get me started on his elves
#17 Posted by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not saying whether it is or isn't racist I'm saying it doesn't matter 

#18 Posted by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio

While we're on the subject has anyone else noticed how inherently racist Star Trek is to all the non human races. Every episode has the human captain talking down to the leader of some world that was exploring the galaxy while our ancestors were learning to walk upright, basically acting like the whole damn universe was waiting for us to get out there and teach them how to act right and for some reason Earth is the only planet with more than 1 or 2 cultures its always well all Klingons are this way and all Romulans are that way but us superior monkeys can be different from person to person again it's not something that really matters but it does make the whole thing seem a bit hypocritical since the whole point of star trek is supposedly bringing people of all races together in peace  

#19 Posted by TheRedRobin (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Its Rascist.
#20 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the title of your thread actually answers the question!!!

#21 Posted by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:

I think the title of your thread actually answers the question!!!


Exclamation mark!!!!! :P
#22 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio

Being racist is racist.

#23 Posted by gavinification (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Its being racist but it doesn't matter because they're not real.

#24 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

Since you created the topic I am going to say it is racist, to you.
 
To someone else, like myself, I wouldn't care and say don't be stupid they aren't real. Or you can take my approach and just hate everyone equally until they show they have some redeeming value to you.

#25 Posted by Vortex13 (12223 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, is this supposed to be serious? They don't exist! It may be racist but it also doesn't matter and harms no one since they don't exist. I mean often you have parallels of actual racism through fictional races and cultures in comics. Mostly because the publisher are too big of wusses to use real races to show how ugly it is. They sugar coat it and it seems less harmful because of the fact they don't exist so it kind of makes it less effective. To use it as a parallel in the fifties through seventies made sense because they were too tense to actually except it so they discussed it in sort of a backhanded way. Of course while doing this they also perpetuated stereotypes of real races so they wouldn't get black listed (Looking at you fifties DC). So, to me, by dealing with racial tensions with fictional races you kind of make actual racism seem less harmful. Something that goes into marvels favor is they always were better at having minority characters in a positive light. Whereas DC was always better at showing women's rights. At least before the CCA act was placed in effect, then they pussyed out and stopped doing anything productive and helpful to minorities and women's issues. The parallels of racism through fictional races in comics may be supportive but it is less evil, I guess people would freak out if they saw real races being discriminated. This was mostly through fifties and eighties, and you know what it still continues to this day but I gotta say it has gotten better. To act racist towards fictional races may not be that bad and honestly I just see that kind of stuff as kind of a joke, but it still may is semi helpful to get people to think about the issues. Though seeing as it's fictionalized racism people may not see it for the actual harm real kinds can cause. I don't know, maybe I'm just reading to much into it but I feel it would be better if they showed more then genocide to these fake races, which is very extreme, but also just show it on a small scale because even on a small scale true racism and prejudice can be hurtful. Even telling a racist joke every now and again to a person of that race could be bad, of course it is all about context so who knows. Maybe my opinions are absolute s##t and completely unrealistic or accurate but hey whataya gonna do.

#26 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not racist.I hate skrulls but that doesn't make me racist.I have reasoning behind it and it's not because they are green or for anything irrational.They are annoying and the figurehead of one of the worst events in Marvel History.I hate them for wasting my time with that weak ass Secret Invasion not simply for the fact that they are skrulls.

Moderator
#27 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aiden Cross: It's my trademark

#28 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4157 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:

@Aiden Cross: It's my trademark

If that's true then where are the !!! in that statement?
#29 Posted by labarith (670 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
Your answer lies in the question.  If you have to use the word 'racist' to ask if something is racist then yes it is racist.  That's like asking "Are funny blonde jokes funny?"
Yup.  Never ask a question that you don't not only know the answer to, let alone one you don't have at least 2 ways to prove you're right about. 
@Stuka69
said:
OMG! This is pure gold!  Can make believe creatures feel bad about your racism towards them? And how bad you should feel about it? Jesus effing Christ on a cross, mr. Labarith, dude, you just broke the fourth wall and political correctness records like few men before...
Thanks.@joshmightbe said:
Okay I can understand people being upset by people discriminating against races that actually exist but if I make a joke about Kryptonians or Klingons and someone seriously gets angry at me for it I will never respect that person's intelligence again it's like getting mad at someone for calling Santa fat who the f**k cares he isn't real.
Look at the CARS that "die" in Cars 2.  Parents say the movie needed a PG13 rating.  Raters rated it a G because... well... they're idiots.  And cars aren't people.  But CARS in CARS 2 *ARE* people.  Fictionally.  In our everyday life, it doesn't make sense to say "Cars are people" - that'd get you locked up.  (See UK Transformers early issues when Brawn goes crazy and tries to save human cars from their evil human masters...).  However, the question is this:  If cars could talk, go on adventures, and act like douches or heroes... would it be okay to kill them?  The answer, of course, is "no" (unless they're Nazi cars, etc.).  But the ratings board didn't think of that.  Because they're racist (specist?  Constructionists?) against living cars.  Or some junk. 
#30 Posted by SC (12721 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure. Its like being racist towards non fictional races the difference being the non fictional races might potentially be offended. The fictional races will need to wait for a writer to demonstrate reaction. smile*

Moderator
#31 Posted by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio

Santa is racist against elves seriously what's more racist than slavery? He gets all the credit but he only works 1 day a year while elves work making the toys for nothing but cocoa and candy canes or whatever the hell Santa's elves eat 

#32 Posted by Belphegor (255 posts) - - Show Bio

No, no, no. Racism has to do with reality sooo being racist to a non-real character makes no sense.

#33 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

If you care then yes 
but if you ignore then no  
It all depends on who makes a big fuss about it actually  
 
Try making fun of actual races in comics for the hell of it 

#34 Posted by SC (12721 posts) - - Show Bio

Racism is not about treatment, as in poor treatment, its about discrimination.  
 
Now there is the aftermath and really thats where one possibly can make a case about the absurdity of offense.  
 
If Santa went to Elf land, and decided to grab some elves to be slaves based on their looks, maybe their noses were more pronounced or eyes were angled, or their skin was darker, and so Santa based on that, whilst knowing that otherwise they were the same as other elves just with, in his eyes, inferior features then Santa would be racist. Except one can argue, eh no one cares, so it doesn't matter. No actual elves get hurt, but that doesn't mean that Santa isn't racist. Thats an independent function. More than that, one can recognize a racist attitude present.  
 
Thor is not real. Asgardian's aren't, they are fictional characters. There is a danger though in say, if I decided to treat and view Thor and Sif as being inferior than myself, because their skin is fairer. Okay, well they may be fictional, but there are people in real life with fairer skin than me too, so... now if I was discriminating against Thor because I think his power makes him dangerous, then I am not holding a negative perception of him based off his skin color. Hence its not racism. A joke about Superman, is NOT the same as saying Superman is inferior because he looks jewish, lulz but he is not real so I am not sure why people are upset at me? That Skrull is inferior to us humans? They are violent? Well, actually, Skrulls are kind of violent, they are a war faring race. Thats not racism, you actually have historical and demonstrated evidence they are aggressive and violent and so you have substance to your reasoning. Same attitudes can be applied to real life. Now say attacking and murdering Hulking because he has Skrull features? Well see we get into more complicated territory. The discrimination there may have had some logic, but the reaction was somewhat excessive, especially in light of the evidence of Hulking actually being rather peaceful as a Skrull. 

Moderator
#35 Posted by mavfan626 (4121 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

Discrimination is discrimination.

#36 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nova`Prime` said:

@Final Arrow said:

@Aiden Cross: It's my trademark

If that's true then where are the !!! in that statement?

Cause it's my trademark and I will use it where I want :p !!

#37 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread totally screwed up my understanding of what it even means to be racist, but I think it's an interesting topic.  I mean as people pointed out, being racist is being racist, obviously. It's like asking if a trees a tree.    Or is it like asking "Is a fictional tree really a tree?". So what does it mean to be racist.

 Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in people's traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race, however defined, and that, as a consequence, justify the different treatment of those people, both socially and legally. Moreover, racism is the practice of the different treatment of certain a group or groups, which is then justified by recourse to racial stereotyping or pseudo-science.


I think the problem is how the question is phrased. Are you asking if believing that the  "inherent differences in"  fictional character's  "traits and capacities ... entirely due to their race" then technically yes because those differences aren't based in their race, the differences come from how they are written.  I think most people don't really consider it one way or the other because no one is really getting hurt to begin with. As a consequence it really doesn't matter, but it does make an interesting philosophical question. I thought about it for awhile and one "race" I might be racist against are vampires, zombies, and demons in general. It's probably because I'm religious. For example in vampire comics and movies like Blade I see nothing wrong with indiscriminately massacring a room full of vampires because I assume all of them kill people in order to feed off of them. To some degree I don't even like Blade as much as I could cause he's part vampire and he doesn't even feed on people.   I mean he's cool, but I just don't like demons. For example characters like Spawn or Ghost Rider I like alot less. If you took the same characters, but say that their powers came from heaven I'd like them alot more. I think there cool, but something about getting your powers from hell really bothers me. But usually I wouldn't consider my dislike racist even though it kinda fits the definition.

 On a side note, I think the key is to hate peoples faults, not actual people or entire races (real world). 
#38 Posted by Stuka69 (117 posts) - - Show Bio
@labarith said:
@Green Skin said:
Your answer lies in the question.  If you have to use the word 'racist' to ask if something is racist then yes it is racist.  That's like asking "Are funny blonde jokes funny?"
Yup.  Never ask a question that you don't not only know the answer to, let alone one you don't have at least 2 ways to prove you're right about. 
@Stuka69
said:
OMG! This is pure gold!  Can make believe creatures feel bad about your racism towards them? And how bad you should feel about it? Jesus effing Christ on a cross, mr. Labarith, dude, you just broke the fourth wall and political correctness records like few men before...
Thanks.@joshmightbe said:
Okay I can understand people being upset by people discriminating against races that actually exist but if I make a joke about Kryptonians or Klingons and someone seriously gets angry at me for it I will never respect that person's intelligence again it's like getting mad at someone for calling Santa fat who the f**k cares he isn't real.
Look at the CARS that "die" in Cars 2.  Parents say the movie needed a PG13 rating.  Raters rated it a G because... well... they're idiots.  And cars aren't people.  But CARS in CARS 2 *ARE* people.  Fictionally.  In our everyday life, it doesn't make sense to say "Cars are people" - that'd get you locked up.  (See UK Transformers early issues when Brawn goes crazy and tries to save human cars from their evil human masters...).  However, the question is this:  If cars could talk, go on adventures, and act like douches or heroes... would it be okay to kill them?  The answer, of course, is "no" (unless they're Nazi cars, etc.).  But the ratings board didn't think of that.  Because they're racist (specist?  Constructionists?) against living cars.  Or some junk.   
I just want to point out, that one marker of clinical insanity is being unable to understand the difference of fantasy and reality. Carry on the conversation...
#39 Posted by Feliciano2040 (654 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
Okay I can understand people being upset by people discriminating against races that actually exist but if I make a joke about Kryptonians or Klingons and someone seriously gets angry at me for it I will never respect that person's intelligence again it's like getting mad at someone for calling Santa fat who the f**k cares he isn't real.
 Unless you were making an elaborate speech on why muties should be discriminated.
 
In that case you'd be called a rascist.........and a freak !
#40 Posted by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio
@Feliciano2040: I wouldn't be discriminating against mutants and if people like Cyclops and Magneto existed in the real world they wouldn't be mobbed on because people would be terrified natural animal instinc would make them flee like a herd of wildebeests running from lions  
#41 Posted by Feliciano2040 (654 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
@Feliciano2040: I wouldn't be discriminating against mutants and if people like Cyclops and Magneto existed in the real world they wouldn't be mobbed on because people would be terrified natural animal instinc would make them flee like a herd of wildebeests running from lions  
 
Dude I was joking, don't worry.
#42 Edited by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio
@Feliciano2040: I figured you were  just pointing out how its stupid in the comics when people are running up to jump people they know for a fact can level a city in under a second that's not mob mentality that's suicidal 
#43 Posted by SC (12721 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
@Feliciano2040: I wouldn't be discriminating against mutants and if people like Cyclops and Magneto existed in the real world they wouldn't be mobbed on because people would be terrified natural animal instinc would make them flee like a herd of wildebeests running from lions  
 
That would be flight. The other natural animal instinct is to fight, even when outmatched. Like that time those wildebeest scared those lions off, and of course the Lion King, where SPOILERS 
 
 
 
 
They stomped holes in Simba's biological father. 
Moderator
#44 Posted by joshmightbe (24691 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: that's when they have no other option or like 200 to 1 odds
#45 Posted by PowerHerc (81645 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't dealing with real racism enough to work on without having to ponder fictional racism? Sheesh.

#46 Posted by shackle (215 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate unicorns.   I run over any unicorns that cross the road while I'm driving.  Is PETA going to come after me? 

#47 Posted by SC (12721 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
@SC: that's when they have no other option or like 200 to 1 odds
 
Well... 300 hundred mutants,  billion humans... every day unfortunately people with no weapons have to stare down with those with automatic rifles. People stand for strange things and die for even stranger things. Just like Mufasa.... *wipes tear from eye* 
Moderator
#48 Posted by TransgressionsofSociety (195 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't fictional racism dealt with in comics by the characters themselves?  Why do we even have to worry about it?

#49 Edited by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

It Depends on Reason 

Like " I Hate Kryptonians because they are too overpowered and are making comics boring" 
Is nothing in front of 
"I Hate   Kryptonians because they are not humans" or something like that  

#50 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep