#1 Edited by Tyrus (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

I just wanted to elaborate on this because it seems people have a hard time to separate recognition from natural success.

Avengers is a natural success, people continue to bash it over a non-existent live-action Justice League film. Now, that's not me saying that I'm not looking forward to a Justice League film in the future but I have a hard time backing up everyone's statements on how a Justice League film is "better than Avengers" just because they're "more recognized". Heck, this applies to the upcoming Superman/Batman movie - these characters most certainly are (arguably) two of the most recognized characters in the face of comic-book heroes but why is it that just because they are more well-known, their film will automatically be better than The Avengers (and it's sequels)?

A World's Finest film can be a failure if it wanted and people would still consider it better quality than The Avengers (or any other DC rivals) just because of the film's characters. There's been a lot of talk on this forum about this crap and it's getting tiring. Yesterday a Namor/Aquaman forum opened up over who's more recognized in the face of the general public and it turned into a war over who's a better character/who comes from the better company.

I certainly hope people will eventually see the light on this childish-banter.

#2 Edited by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

You need to get rid of Goyer or at least give him someone to write the screenplay, someone good. Snyder is not good enough for that type of movie.

#3 Edited by Wolverine08 (45540 posts) - - Show Bio

Hell no. The Avengers are the better team so a JL movie can't just automatically be better than The Avengers movie.

#4 Posted by The Stegman (25979 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd rather see JL than Avengers anyday

Online
#5 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2273 posts) - - Show Bio

JL > Avengers

#6 Posted by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

The recognition thing is a load of bull. In Avengers, besides Iron man and maybe Hulk ,they were relatively unknown to the general public and it still became a massive success.

Online
#7 Posted by Wolverine08 (45540 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

The recognition thing is a load of bull. In Avengers, besides Iron man and maybe Hulk ,they were relatively unknown to the general public and it still became a massive success.

This.

#8 Posted by batmannflash (6226 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the JL much better than the Avengers (although the X-Men can compete with JL). but I agree. I want a JL movie to be better but for a live action film, there's too many issues that need to be worked out before it can surpass the Avengers. Too early to tell, anyways!

#9 Posted by JulieDC (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

No. If they fail to convince the public that superman and batman can coexist the justice league movie will more than likely be dead on arrival. They'd have to take a several year break and reboot like they did with batman after batman and robin failure.

#10 Posted by War Killer (20290 posts) - - Show Bio

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

#11 Posted by Ace20XD6 (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@maccyd said:

The recognition thing is a load of bull. In Avengers, besides Iron man and maybe Hulk ,they were relatively unknown to the general public and it still became a massive success.

Well they all were known to the general public with the previous movies, besides Hawkeye and to an extent Black Widow, had they done straight Avengers and no other films prior Hulk would have been the only recognizable to the general public, where Justice League has three of the most iconic Superheroes, so they don't need multiple films for recognition like Avengers, other than that the recognition thing is a load of bull.

#12 Posted by The Stegman (25979 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

The recognition thing is a load of bull. In Avengers, besides Iron man and maybe Hulk ,they were relatively unknown to the general public and it still became a massive success.

They did well because each hero had a film leading up to Avengers so the public COULD recognize them.

Online
#13 Edited by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ace20xd6: They still had films, but the heroes had nowhere the recognition of the A-listers. Before Avengers, if you asked a non-comic fan about either Captain America or Thor, there's a 50/50 they'd ask who? Besides Iron man, the other films were moderate successes especially if you compare to Dark Knight or Man of Steel.

Online
#14 Posted by Ace20XD6 (235 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd: Yeah that's true, and which superhero team up does better can go either way anyways.

#15 Posted by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ace20xd6: Yep, people have been saying for years that a film with Robin would be brilliant. Then Batman and Robin was unleashed upon the world.

Online
#16 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6456 posts) - - Show Bio

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, is if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

The only person to make sense!

@tyrus said:

I just wanted to elaborate on this because it seems people have a hard time to separate recognition from natural success.

Avengers is a natural success, people continue to bash it over a non-existent live-action Justice League film. Now, that's not me saying that I'm not looking forward to a Justice League film in the future but I have a hard time backing up everyone's statements on how a Justice League film is "better than Avengers" just because they're "more recognized". Heck, this applies to the upcoming Superman/Batman movie - these characters most certainly are (arguably) two of the most recognized characters in the face of comic-book heroes but why is it that just because they are more well-known, their film will automatically be better than The Avengers (and it's sequels)?

A World's Finest film can be a failure if it wanted and people would still consider it better quality than The Avengers (or any other DC rivals) just because of the film's characters. There's been a lot of talk on this forum about this crap and it's getting tiring. Yesterday a Namor/Aquaman forum opened up over who's more recognized in the face of the general public and it turned into a war over who's a better character/who comes from the better company.

I certainly hope people will eventually see the light on this childish-banter.

Thats basically what this thread is becoming.

#17 Posted by Ace20XD6 (235 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd: Well remember now Batman and Robin was a sequel to Batman Forever, who had Robin.

#18 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

Unfortunately they are rushing everything.

#19 Posted by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ace20xd6: I knew there was another film with robin..my bad, forget most of the plots of the early batman films.

Online
#20 Edited by Tyrus (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_ said:

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

Unfortunately they are rushing everything.

Can't blame 'em, FOX is doing the same thing (X-Force and what? Right, nothing, pfft...). A recent article said that Snyder was considering doing a solo Batman-reboot but he apparently wanted to get things moving forward/faster. If the rumours about Justice League being released in 2017 are true then that would be... OK, but they should get working on casting and storyboarding AS SOON as production on Superman/Batman finishes (by the end of next year I'm guessing).

#21 Edited by War Killer (20290 posts) - - Show Bio

@tyrus said:

@sandman_ said:

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

Unfortunately they are rushing everything.

Can't blame 'em, FOX is doing the same thing (X-Force and what? Right, nothing, pfft...). A recent article said that Snyder was considering doing a solo Batman-reboot but he apparently wanted to get things moving forward/faster. If the rumours about Justice League being released in 2017 are true then that would be... OK, but they should get working on casting and storyboarding AS SOON as production on Superman/Batman finishes (by the end of next year I'm guessing).

Which in all honesty DC is really pressured by fans right now, because with Avengers being a huge hit for Marvel, DC fans have pretty much demanded that they want Justice League. The biggest problem I can see is DC rushing things too much, wanting to catch up with Marvel and ultimately giving us another half-baked movie like Green Lantern. Really, I think DC should slow things down, focus on establishing their DC Cinematic Universe with a sequel to Man of Steel, get the Batman reboot rolling, and a Wonder Woman out there and use them as the foundation for the Justice League movie.

I can understand DC not wanting to "copy" Marvel's way with how they set up Avengers with Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor first and I do think that there idea of bring the characters together first, then explain to us who they are, I think it could work if they do it right. My fear, and others may disagree with me, but outside of fans of the comics, to most people, characters like Wonder Woman and the Flash aren't that popular. Green Lantern's a little more well known due to his movie, but overall my biggest fear is that these characters aren't as well known as DC hopes and could cause their plan to bring them all together without any prior knowledge of them, who they are and what their story is, it could cause the Justice League movie to flop simply due to lack care or interest in these characters, simply due to not truly knowing them in the way like people were introduced to Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor.

#22 Posted by deaditegonzo (3690 posts) - - Show Bio

@tyrus: Are people saying the JL movie or Superman/Batman movie will be automatically "better", or just automatically more "successful"? Because, it automatically being better is a stupid argument to make, im terrified WB will drop the ball, especially since their decision making seems to be completely braindamaged based on the fact they made MoS2 into Batman Vs Superman.

That said, I do believe that as far as success goes, its WBs game to lose. They have a better chance at success out of the gate then the Avengers, as their characters are more recognizeable to the general audience, and the Avengers movie didnt even have access to 2 Marvel's most popular characters (Wolverine and Spidey). Even though everyone here knows I hate the idea of Batman vs Superman, as I have said before, as long as the early word of mouth isnt bad, it will crush Avengers 1 and 2 at the box office.

#23 Edited by RedLantern23 (890 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a huge DC fanboy, but even I can admit its gonna be hard for anything DC does to come close to the success of the MCU.

Marvel has put in hard work and its paying off. We live in a world where Ant Man and Guardians Of The Galaxy films are being made, and will proboably be financially successful. Think about that for a second. If you would have told me that 10 years ago I would have laughed in your face.

Meanwhile DC/WB cant even make a film without Supes or Bats in it without it flopping. Honestly, I dont know if I even want a Justice League movie right now. For one, only 2 of the members will have been established. Secondly, I dont think I trust the Snyder/Goyer combo to do it justice (no pun intended) Give me a kickass Flash or Wonder Woman or Aquaman movie and maybe I'll get on board.

#24 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8870 posts) - - Show Bio

The characters popularity doesn't equal automatic success, it's about delivery. The Avengers and, hell, every comic based movie has the potential to bomb simply based on how ridiculous the characters can be at times. It's about pulling the audience in to make it believable, and perceive that what these fantastic individuals face is a legitimate threat.

Also outside of Batman, and recently Superman in MoS, DC has not churned out a good superhero film in the last 20 years. They need to select their writers carefully and not rely on popularity (Superman Returns).

#25 Posted by SheenLantern (6895 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

There was no plot in Avengers.

#26 Posted by Tyrus (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

There was no plot in Avengers.

There is no plot for Justice League.

#27 Posted by SheenLantern (6895 posts) - - Show Bio

@tyrus said:

@sheenlantern said:

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

There was no plot in Avengers.

There is no plot for Justice League.

I wasn't aware you could see into the future.

Mind giving me next week's lottery numbers?

#28 Edited by Tyrus (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern said:

@tyrus said:

@sheenlantern said:

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

There was no plot in Avengers.

There is no plot for Justice League.

I wasn't aware you could see into the future.

Mind giving me next week's lottery numbers?

What are you on about? There's literally no plot for Justice League.

#29 Posted by SheenLantern (6895 posts) - - Show Bio

@tyrus said:

@sheenlantern said:

@tyrus said:

@sheenlantern said:

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

There was no plot in Avengers.

There is no plot for Justice League.

I wasn't aware you could see into the future.

Mind giving me next week's lottery numbers?

Uh, there's no plot for Justice League.

Truth.

What do you even mean by that?

You don't think there will be a plot in JL? Well you can't see into the future.

You can't think of a plot for JL? Well you're not a profesional writer.

#30 Edited by Tyrus (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern said:

@tyrus said:

@sheenlantern said:

@tyrus said:

@sheenlantern said:

@war_killer said:

No, the only way it will be better than Avengers is...is if it's better than Avengers. Meaning it has to have a superb cast and plot that out does the cast and plot in Avengers. But just because DC makes an JL movie doesn't mean it will be an automatic hit, if the story and acting sucks, the movie will suck.

There was no plot in Avengers.

There is no plot for Justice League.

I wasn't aware you could see into the future.

Mind giving me next week's lottery numbers?

Uh, there's no plot for Justice League.

Truth.

What do you even mean by that?

You don't think there will be a plot in JL? Well you can't see into the future.

You can't think of a plot for JL? Well you're not a profesional writer.

As I said in my edited my post, what are you on about? What do you even mean by that? There is literally no plot for Justice League so why are you saying there's no plot for Avengers? Is there a secret live-action Justice League film that's been released that I don't know about?

Also it's a little creepy that you know I'm not a professional writer and psychic.

#31 Posted by Commander_Kane (717 posts) - - Show Bio

I love them both, an I think they will be equally great films. I prefer DC, but yeah. As long a I see my heroes on screen, an I'm entertained, that's all I need.

#32 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

What makes one movie better than the other will have absolutely nothing to do with the characters involved. Nothing. Comic fans in general have a hard time understanding this because the vast majority of them base their buying habits first and foremost around characters.

Whether a movie succeeds or fails will depend on the same factors that any movie relies on: good writing, good direction, good acting, etc. The Avengers franchise appears to have those things, based on the one movie it released already. I hope to God that Justice League gets those things also.

But any nerd that argues JLA is going to be better at this point is about as convincing as if he were to just stand stationary, making fart noises with his armpits.

#33 Posted by Jayc1324 (13393 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it will. You say the more recognized thing is bull, but it's not. It's fact. Yes the avengers was sucessful but c'mon this is batman and superman. More famous than any other comic character. If avengers could do it, they can do it better. And there will probably be a better story and less hero banter bickering and jokes. More people will pour out to see this movie than avengers thanks to the success of the dark knight trilogy and mos

#34 Posted by RustyRoy (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

Time will tell.

#35 Posted by Bezza (3859 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, recognition does not a good movie automatically make. People forget that Marvel were very clever. They introduced Hulk, Iron Man, Thor and Cap America and put teasers at the end of each movie in preparation for the Avengers. By the time the Avengers came out, everyone was up for it and everyone knew who the big characters were.

Out in the real world most kids/jo public know about Batman and Superman but that's about it! The Green Lantern film flopped and very few people outside of the comic book community know much about GL, Flash, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter. As for Wonder Woman, most people born after 1980 who don't read comics will probably struggle to recall her either!

DC really need to pull this one off. Everyone will compare JL to the Avengers and its got a lot to live up to.