Posted by Riot_Sqrrl (262 posts) - - Show Bio

..........

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#1 Posted by ccraft (5016 posts) - - Show Bio

eh.. I don't mind. The Batman and Superman related comics are fine imo, but to address the Starfire & Harley things, the vid shouldn't compare cartoons to comics, because comics are for more matured audiences. They do make kid comics too.

#2 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone needs to get a rake! Anyway it's important to get boys used to violence and sexiness in order to integrate them into the culture. Sex and violence are here to stay and that's a good thing. Showing that violent death is a possibility raises the stakes and ups the drama. Back during the days of The Code death and violence were taboo, the stories were also more predictable in their conclusions. Catwoman's recent "death" in JLA had people fascinated. Conversely no one talks about the latest issue of Marvel Adventures or Tiny Titans, the reason? Those books aren't stimulating, they lack meaningful conflict and the possibility of change.

Sexiness in comics is also a boon. Characters like Wonder Woman, Ms. Marvel and Emma Frost are pretty, why hide this? Contrary to popular belief boys don't shrink from the female form. Rather they appreciate it, with maybe a few giggles.

Also Marvel has it's share of violence. Imagine some poor young boy who was tricked into buying an issue of Thor God of Thunder! He might appreciate the cool and brutal characters and the mythic way in which they battle! Instead of breezing through some sterile "parent approved" non-canon drivel.

#3 Posted by The Stegman (22765 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not even gonna watch this. I see Harley in the thumbnail and know he's gonna rant about how "overly sexy'' she is, a complaint I have heard enough.

Online
#4 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

The new-52 is fine, hence why my current pull list have 8 DC titles.

The only thing I can't stand is the new Harley and...that's it.

#5 Posted by Trollheim (243 posts) - - Show Bio

"Stories should not make audiences uncomfortable for no reason" Says who?

I was expecting an actual argument, not showing a little kid repeatedly and some sexualized characters.

#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (38141 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the New 52 does have some problems. Hence why I only have 1 DC title on my pull list. Or maybe it's just because I'm apathetic towards DC.

#7 Posted by ccraft (5016 posts) - - Show Bio

I think to many people get upset when their cartoon version is different than the comic version. Like the video shows a picture of pre new 52 Harley and Starfire and those both pictures are cartoon versions. Last time I remembered Dick and Starfire were always getting it on pre new 52.

From what I remember (Suicide Squad) they had to steal clothes and that's what Harley found, don't get so upset about it. Also I thought Harley was written well in SS, maybe not the best version, but at least she's not hand cuffed to Joker in the new 52. Harley doesn't need to be with Joker 24/7 to be interesting.

#8 Posted by batmannflash (6170 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the New 52. Although there are some changes that may bother me, it's nice to start fresh and there are some changes that I like. Overall, I don't mind. I like it

#9 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6037 posts) - - Show Bio

Violence is fine, as long as it's not too extreme for the age group, but I'm not into oversexualising characters.


Someone needs to get a rake! Anyway it's important to get boys used to violence and sexiness in order to integrate them into the culture. Sex and violence are here to stay and that's a good thing. Showing that violent death is a possibility raises the stakes and ups the drama. Back during the days of The Code death and violence were taboo, the stories were also more predictable in their conclusions. Catwoman's recent "death" in JLA had people fascinated. Conversely no one talks about the latest issue of Marvel Adventures or Tiny Titans, the reason? Those books aren't stimulating, they lack meaningful conflict and the possibility of change.

Sexiness in comics is also a boon. Characters like Wonder Woman, Ms. Marvel and Emma Frost are pretty, why hide this? Contrary to popular belief boys don't shrink from the female form. Rather they appreciate it, with maybe a few giggles.

Also Marvel has it's share of violence. Imagine some poor young boy who was tricked into buying an issue of Thor God of Thunder! He might appreciate the cool and brutal characters and the mythic way in which they battle! Instead of breezing through some sterile "parent approved" non-canon drivel.

Do you have any thoughts on girls reading comic books?

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#10 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, Pre-52 Harley is much better than New 52 Harley.

Pre-52 kids could see their favorite clown girl from the animated series get beat around brutally -.. oh.

It didn't change. Starfire was always sleezy. Harley always dressed a bit flashy. I dislike the idea behind New 52, but my lord.

#11 Posted by Binski (643 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the new 52 and will continue to read the new 52 I let my nephews read other comics because Teen and Teen + comics aren't for kids just like R rated movies aren't for kids, I think Axe Cop is the only comic not guilty of this :p

#12 Edited by Teerack (5219 posts) - - Show Bio

That wasn't what Starfire or Harley looked like pre52 lol

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#13 Posted by Riot_Sqrrl (262 posts) - - Show Bio

To continue this conversation, I would advise the creator to do more research; continuity was not completely abandoned, but manipulated from book to book. Batwoman seems to incorporate the entire pre-52 Detective Comics JH Williams III story, and Chase seems only vaguely different than the version iintro'd in her own book and expanded upon in Manhunter. I posted this, not because the evidence presented was without holes, but consider the original thesis that story is being sacrificed for the other elements. The ultimate solution to "Make Mine Marvel" is completely invalid, though I would argue that part of the storytelling in the first five issues of Savage Wolverine is contingent on Shanna's mode of dress and the violence in that story. Still, is Batman a detective or is he a vigilante, punishing crimes rather than preventing them? Does Deathstroke offer readers anything other than Beavis & Butthead chuckles when he decapitates someone? Does Starfire's sexual forwardness advance the story or distract from it?

The only other blog entry I wrote was a slam on Fearless Defenders because many female fans claim it is a great feminist book, but it's only advanced certain archetypes/stereotypes. Batwoman and Lois Lane in the New 52 are certainly two very different examples of how DC is at least succeeding on that front. I feel Wonder Woman is dropping the ball and will be resigned to a fate as a supporting character in Superman mythos, which completely undermines any feminist rhetoric her writers might espouse. What do the rest of you ladies think? Gentlemen?

Good conversation so far by all. Thanks for looking.

#14 Posted by Riot_Sqrrl (262 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose:

Yeah, I'd certainly not give Suicide Squad or Batman to a preadolescent to read.

#15 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, you can't please everybody. I personally enjoy the New 52. I have 11 DC books on my pull.

#16 Edited by ImmortalOne (3264 posts) - - Show Bio

I just wanted to point out that this is Starfire, pre-52.

It's not like she always looked like her Teen Titans incarnation and only looked sexual after the New 52.

Plus, the bulk of the guy's argument was that it was mature and not kid-friendly. Comics have never been kid friendly, unless something like getting shot in the spine is considered family friendly reading material.

#17 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: I mean sure a small amount of girls read superhero comics, but they are read by men mostly.

People talk about the lack of girls reading comics as an issue, but what would you have us do? Is it really a few lascivious panels keeping girls away from comics? Seems to me the only way to get more girls to read comics isn't to change the stories or the art, but to change girls at a fundamental level. To make more cool comic reading girls is a tall order when girls are hardwired to enjoy different things.

#18 Posted by Catsnlynne (982 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey, why only show women with big boobs. I want to see men being well very manly if you know what I mean. But seriously if you think a comic book (s) are too mature for young kids, then don't let them read it.

#19 Posted by Riot_Sqrrl (262 posts) - - Show Bio

We're talking a lot about what's age appropriate, and again, that is the weak evidence presented in the video. However, does an over abundance of sexual exploitation and violence distract from the story being told or enhance it?

#20 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

We're talking a lot about what's age appropriate, and again, that is the weak evidence presented in the video. However, does an over abundance of sexual exploitation and violence distract from the story being told or enhance it?

Good question. If it fits the story -- then it's the story cheesecake positions of female characters (and now -- even some male) is just distracting. It garners an eye roll from me. I am mostly a Marvel fan so I can't comment specifically to the New52 with any real substantial input but the days of most comics being for the under 12 crowd have gone. It's too bad but it doesn't prevent me from encouraging young kids I know to try out other books like Adventure Time, or Wolverine and the X-Men. (Not restricted to those titles, just as examples)

The only other blog entry I wrote was a slam on Fearless Defenders because many female fans claim it is a great feminist book, but it's only advanced certain archetypes/stereotypes. Batwoman and Lois Lane in the New 52 are certainly two very different examples of how DC is at least succeeding on that front. I feel Wonder Woman is dropping the ball and will be resigned to a fate as a supporting character in Superman mythos, which completely undermines any feminist rhetoric her writers might espouse. What do the rest of you ladies think? Gentlemen?

Good conversation so far by all. Thanks for looking.

Bolded part: I agree with your statement about the Fearless Defenders title (I posted in your other blog about it) and as for Wonder Woman, it's a concern for sure. While her own book seems to be in a world of it's own -- even that has taken some weird turns that I have yet to really marinade in to get an opinion on (plus I am sooo behind in my reading).

Someone needs to get a rake! Anyway it's important to get boys used to violence and sexiness in order to integrate them into the culture. Sex and violence are here to stay and that's a good thing. Showing that violent death is a possibility raises the stakes and ups the drama. Back during the days of The Code death and violence were taboo, the stories were also more predictable in their conclusions. Catwoman's recent "death" in JLA had people fascinated. Conversely no one talks about the latest issue of Marvel Adventures or Tiny Titans, the reason? Those books aren't stimulating, they lack meaningful conflict and the possibility of change.

Sexiness in comics is also a boon. Characters like Wonder Woman, Ms. Marvel and Emma Frost are pretty, why hide this? Contrary to popular belief boys don't shrink from the female form. Rather they appreciate it, with maybe a few giggles.

Also Marvel has it's share of violence. Imagine some poor young boy who was tricked into buying an issue of Thor God of Thunder! He might appreciate the cool and brutal characters and the mythic way in which they battle! Instead of breezing through some sterile "parent approved" non-canon drivel.

I started reading this thinking you were being clever, parody-wise but it doesn't seem to be the case. So -- would do you think comics can be considered like a Playboy-lite for the just-pubescent? Boys that is?

#21 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

You treat Playboy as if it's a bad thing. What specifically is wrong with appreciating the female form?

Do we at least agree that comic book violence is good?

#22 Posted by Dernman (14612 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

You treat Playboy as if it's a bad thing. What specifically is wrong with appreciating the female form?

Do we at least agree that comic book violence is good?

The only thing wrong with playboy is the airbrushing and photoshopping. It makes the woman look fake. I never seen a playgirl but if it's the equivalent of a playboy then there isn't anything wrong with that either.

#23 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

You treat Playboy as if it's a bad thing. What specifically is wrong with appreciating the female form?

Do we at least agree that comic book violence is good?

Where did I say Playboy is a bad thing? Where did I say appreciating the female form is a bad thing? My question to you was can comics be considered a Playboy lite for pubescent boys (as in young boys who are 10 to 12). I am simply asking for clarification on your initial post.

Uhm -- no, I wouldn't say comic book violence is "good" -- if it fits the story being told, that it's simply the graphic representation of said story. If there is violence in the story -- then there you go. And as long as the books' ratings are being adhered to, I see no problem with it.

@dernman said:

@godtriggerhulk said:

@lykopis:

You treat Playboy as if it's a bad thing. What specifically is wrong with appreciating the female form?

Do we at least agree that comic book violence is good?

The only thing wrong with playboy is the airbrushing and photoshopping. It makes the woman look fake. I never seen a playgirl but if it's the equivalent of a playboy then there isn't anything wrong with that either.

Is this a comment for me to respond to? Please refer to my above response if it is, if not, please ignore.

#24 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

I thought detected an Internet sneer with the mentioning of Playboy, oh well, we are all human.

Yes boys can use comic books to appreciate the female form.

And yes of course violence should fit the story.

#25 Posted by Wolverine08 (38141 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk:

I'm a teenager, and I appreciate the female form through comics! Lol.

#26 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

I thought detected an Internet sneer with the mentioning of Playboy, oh well, we are all human.

Yes boys can use comic books to appreciate the female form.

And yes of course violence should fit the story.

I have no sneers towards Playboy. Adults are involved all around and those who like, like and support and those who don't, don't have to support.

My point is that if a comic is rated for a certain age demographic then it should be available only to said age demographic. Pretty much that's it.

#27 Posted by Riot_Sqrrl (262 posts) - - Show Bio

Time to confuse all of you. Sexuality, whether too much, too little, or Goldilocks' "just right" is always part of the story, as that it demonstrates the character's ideas of gender through his or her performance. The interplay of these performances are the foundation for all stories, fiction or no. Contrary to what I've said previously? Perhaps. Maybe I am fickle, or there is the possibility I like to posit multiple positions in order to cultivate different ideas for your consideration. Maybe I'm just a pretentious know-it-all. Whatevs. Tra la la!

#28 Edited by BadVoodoo (381 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortalone said:

I just wanted to point out that this is Starfire, pre-52.

It's not like she always looked like her Teen Titans incarnation and only looked sexual after the New 52.

Plus, the bulk of the guy's argument was that it was mature and not kid-friendly. Comics have never been kid friendly, unless something like getting shot in the spine is considered family friendly reading material.

This is one thing i despise about comics... Women always have to have double D's and 8 inch waist. The sexualization is annoying as f**k. I love women but when every single comic has a tits on a stick thats nothing more then a insecure love interest thats ready to give her virginity to the first superhero thats nice to her... ugh

Do you know how many "Which comic book character would i bang" threads popped up in the last week.

#29 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

Okay great, I've got no problem with a rating system.