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#1 Posted by coolguyr99 (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone please list all the characters they believe are more powerful than Yoda in the Star Wars Universe.

#2 Posted by Asgardian Hulk (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu? Emperor Palpatine? Starkiller?

These characters may be more powerful than Yoda, but it's hard to have a definitive answer.

Mace Windu is the best swordsman in the Star Wars Universe since he could defeat Palpatine in a lightsaber duel when even Yoda couldn't. But both Yoda and Palpatine are stronger with the force than Windu. Starkiller has some pretty impressive lightsaber/force feats too.

I would say Palpatine is the most powerful character since he defeated Yoda, and killed Mace Windu after losing a lightsaber duel, killed Starkiller after losing a lightsaber duel, and technically killed Darth Vader as Darth Vader threw Palpatine to his death. It seems the only thing worse than losing a fight with Palpatine, is winning a fight with Palpatine.

I would say that Emperor Palpatine is the only person more powerful than Yoda.

#3 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19891 posts) - - Show Bio

@Asgardian Hulk: Starkiller? Have I missed something?

"Be water my friend"

#4 Posted by jogoboom (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Starkiller is from the videogame series...if you're talking about solely the movies than possibly Palpatine.

Probably Anakin is more powerful, but he never seemed to really reach his full potential because he's either semi-light, or kind of dark, and not fully devoted to one or the other.

If you want to use the expanded universe (including video games, comics, books, etc...) I would say Luke Skywalker easily is more powerful than Yoda, but I'm not as familiar with the EU so I could be mistaken.

#5 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@Asgardian Hulk said:

Mace Windu? Emperor Palpatine? Starkiller?

These characters may be more powerful than Yoda, but it's hard to have a definitive answer.

Mace Windu is the best swordsman in the Star Wars Universe since he could defeat Palpatine in a lightsaber duel when even Yoda couldn't. But both Yoda and Palpatine are stronger with the force than Windu. Starkiller has some pretty impressive lightsaber/force feats too.

I would say Palpatine is the most powerful character since he defeated Yoda, and killed Mace Windu after losing a lightsaber duel, killed Starkiller after losing a lightsaber duel, and technically killed Darth Vader as Darth Vader threw Palpatine to his death. It seems the only thing worse than losing a fight with Palpatine, is winning a fight with Palpatine.

I would say that Emperor Palpatine is the only person more powerful than Yoda.

Mace is more powerful, how? Same with Starkiller.

When did Mace beat Palpatine?

#6 Posted by coolguyr99 (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: I think he is referring to Revenge of the Sith

#7 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@coolguyr99:

I thought Palps was throwing the fight?

#8 Posted by coolguyr99 (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: He/she might of only seen the movies so it is understandable that he/she would think Windu won.

#9 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@coolguyr99:

But he was throwing it, right?

#10 Posted by coolguyr99 (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: Yes.

#11 Posted by Inverno (13043 posts) - - Show Bio

Starkiller by means of terrible writing.

#12 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the old republic sith lords dwarf Yoda in power. Darth Sidious is also more powerful.

#13 Posted by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

Exar Kun.

#14 Posted by GodOfMischief (635 posts) - - Show Bio

Well if Anakin didn't lose his limbs against Obi-Wan he would of been twice as powerful as Palpatine. But that didn't happen so they only people I think that could beat Yoda in the films would probaly be Palpatine.

#15 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

Anakin Skywalker and all his descendents along with princess Leas descendents are as powerful as Yoda

#16 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Luke Skywalker
  • Palpatine
  • Possibly Cade Skywalker
  • Possibly Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus

Not Starkiller. Palpatine let him win and he didn't pull the Star Destroyer out of the sky he guided it.

#17 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke Skywalker
Palpatine
Darth Caedus  
 
Possibly more but I can't think right now. However...
 
NOT Starkiller, NOT Mace Windu, NOT Cade Skywalker, NOT Anakin Skywalker, NOT Leia (simply being a Skywalker means nothing)
 
And that's all I'm going to say here.

#18 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

Luke Skywalker
Palpatine
Darth Caedus

Possibly more but I can't think right now. However...

NOT Starkiller, NOT Mace Windu, NOT Cade Skywalker, NOT Anakin Skywalker, NOT Leia (simply being a Skywalker means nothing) And that's all I'm going to say here.

Anakin had the potential but he never reached it.

Cade did have a unique force application that Yoda could not have managed but it has been a while since I read one of his comics and I can't remember how strong he is in the force in general.

#19 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio
@guttridgeb said:

@JediXMan said:

Luke Skywalker
Palpatine
Darth Caedus

Possibly more but I can't think right now. However...

NOT Starkiller, NOT Mace Windu, NOT Cade Skywalker, NOT Anakin Skywalker, NOT Leia (simply being a Skywalker means nothing) And that's all I'm going to say here.

Anakin had the potential but he never reached it.

Cade did have a unique force application that Yoda could not have managed but it has been a while since I read one of his comics and I can't remember how strong he is in the force in general.

Indeed. And we have no idea what he would have been, and therefore he's not applicable.
 
Cade didn't do anything. He beat faux Sith and had his advanced Shatterpoint ability (that's essentially what it was). That's about it, and he wasn't all that good with it - and even if he was, he wouldn't get his hands on Yoda to do it. Yoda is vastly superior in every single way.
#20 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7680 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb said:

  • Luke Skywalker
  • Palpatine
  • Possibly Cade Skywalker
  • Possibly Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus

Not Starkiller. Palpatine let him win and he didn't pull the Star Destroyer out of the sky he guided it.

#21 Posted by GodOfMischief (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil: Where does it say Palpatine let Starkiller win?

#22 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio
@GodOfMischief said:

@Jnr6Lil: Where does it say Palpatine let Starkiller win?

Read the novel. Pretty obvious.
 
That and Starkiller admits it's a trick and that Palpatine was faking it. Plus, if we take the DS ending into consideration, their "fight" involved Palpatine defeating him with ease.
#23 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7680 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodOfMischief: I wasn't agreeing with that part.

#24 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jnr6Lil said:

@GodOfMischief: I wasn't agreeing with that part.

It was true, however.
 
And... you actually agreed with the Cade comment?
#25 Posted by GodOfMischief (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Well the dark side ending isn't canon so it doesen't mean he could do the same just as easily, but why would Palpatine let Starkiller win?

That just doesen't seem to make much sense, seeing as Starkiller's death started the Rebel Alliance.

#26 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio
@GodOfMischief said:

@JediXMan: Well the dark side ending isn't canon so it doesen't mean he could do the same just as easily, but why would Palpatine let Starkiller win?

That just doesen't seem to make much sense, seeing as Starkiller's death started the Rebel Alliance.

I know.
 
Because he wanted to turn Starkiller to the dark side. Plus, if Starkiller called his bluff and killed him, he could just come back; he'd have succeeded in turning Starkiller. 
 
I don't see what that has to do with anything, however.
#27 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7680 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Yes. Cade can use midi-chlorian manipulation.

#28 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan: Yes. Cade can use midi-chlorian manipulation.

Care to prove that? Or care to explain how that would help him to win a fight?
 
Sorry, but no. It's just not happening. None of the characters in the Legacy comic series are powerful.
#29 Posted by GodOfMischief (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil: My bad, forgot that you were just quoting somebody. I agree with most of that list too, Anakin could of taken Yoda if he reached his potential and beat Obi-Wan.

#30 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7680 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: A technique like that shows he's really powerful. That's a technique even Palpatine didn't know. Not to mention he killed Krayt, someone Caedus & Luke feared.

#31 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan: A technique like that shows he's really powerful. That's a technique even Palpatine didn't know. Not to mention he killed Krayt, someone Caedus & Luke feared.

Still fail to see why it matters. He wasn't very skilled with it and he required physical contact.

Krayt has no feats that make him worthy of this fear.

#32 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7680 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan: A technique like that shows he's really powerful. That's a technique even Palpatine didn't know. Not to mention he killed Krayt, someone Caedus & Luke feared.

Still fail to see why it matters. He wasn't very skilled with it and he required physical contact.

Krayt has no feats that make him worthy of this fear.

Considering it's a technique that for pretty much the whole Star Wars series was most likely deemed to be impossible I think it matters and is a testament to his skills. And judging that he has brought back multiple people to life with it, he has skill in it. Not to mention he could injure others with the technique also.

Doesn't matter. They both knew however that he could've been more powerful than both of them.

#33 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan: A technique like that shows he's really powerful. That's a technique even Palpatine didn't know. Not to mention he killed Krayt, someone Caedus & Luke feared.

Still fail to see why it matters. He wasn't very skilled with it and he required physical contact.

Krayt has no feats that make him worthy of this fear.

Considering it's a technique that for pretty much the whole Star Wars series was most likely deemed to be impossible I think it matters and is a testament to his skills. And judging that he has brought back multiple people to life with it, he has skill in it. Not to mention he could injure others with the technique also.

Doesn't matter. They both knew however that he could've been more powerful than both of them.

It's not. You still haven't shown how he can use it in a combative capacity. He threatened used it on Talon after he beat her.

Also, I want proof that it was midi-chlorian manipulation. Perhaps I missed where this was stated; and I don't want assumptions.

"Could have." Could haves mean nothing.

#34 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1552 posts) - - Show Bio

Stronger than Yoda?

Taking everything into account (Games, Comics, Movies, Shows; as they're all one universe for me)- Luke Skywalker and Palpatine i'd say are definites. Darth Caedus, Darth Bane, Darth Revan and the Sith Emperor all come to mind as candidates. If Anakin hadn't been burned he'd have surpassed Yoda, but you know...he was. And that's all I got right now. I know i'm forgetting people though.

Cade Skywalker is not stronger than Yoda. He has a unique ability that Yoda doesn't have. That doesn't make him more powerful. Cade can heal people to an amazing extent, Yoda can predict the future to an amazing extent. And sense events on the other side of the galaxy.

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#35 Posted by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

Luke Skywalker
Palpatine
Darth Caedus

Agreed. Plagueis doesn't have enough feats for that. Caedus is debatable, unless you're talking about when Jacen achieved Oneness.

And I just realized there are more. Since the OP said "Star Wars universe", and NOT Jedi/Sith, Abeloth, Ones of Mortis, and Bedlam Sprits are also above Yoda.

#36 Edited by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Taking everything into account (Games, Comics, Movies, Shows; as they're all one universe for me)- Luke Skywalker and Palpatine i'd say are definites. Darth Caedus, Darth Bane, Darth Revan and the Sith Emperor all come to mind as candidates. If Anakin hadn't been burned he'd have surpassed Yoda, but you know...he was. And that's all I got right now. I know i'm forgetting people though.

Some of the beings you mentioned are ridiculous.

Darth Caedus - Potentially.

Darth Bane - This is utterly ridiculous. Apart from defeating Sirak, he has defeated nobody under his own skill in lightsaber duelling, apart from Hetton, who cannot even hold a lightsaber properly. Yoda has mastered the seven forms of lightsaber combat, while Bane only has mastered one and has proficiency in another, and Yoda has FAR better duelling skills. Bane's Force abilities are also insufficient to defeat Yoda.

Darth Revan - This has been gone over countless times. I'd love to see what Revan has done that even REMOTELY comes close to Yoda. He's duelling feats from the Revan novel were no better than an average Jedi Master's. He defeated mainly featless beings in his duels. His Force Powers are laughable compared to Yoda's. He got burnt defending against the Sith Emperor's Lightning, and Palpatine's, which is much more powerful (arguably the most powerful Lightning) was being held against by Yoda. Yes, he was overpowered in the end. Regardless, not as quickly as Revan and by far more powerful lightning.

Sith Emperor/Vitiate/Tenebrae: And once again, how is this possible? Vitiate could barely even hold a lightsaber properly in the Revan novel, had no experience fighting with a lightsaber, and didn't even wield it in combat. Yoda crushes him in saber duelling. In terms of Force Powers, Revan's "Oneness usage" (which was merely a fancy, powerful Force Push, and was incorrectly done in multiple ways) sent the Emperor flying. Yoda has far better TK etc. The Sith Emperor's lightning is not as powerful as Sidious', and Yoda will not have trouble deflecting it, unlike Revan. Vitiate's TK is insufficient to match that of Yoda's.

#37 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Stronger than Yoda?

Taking everything into account (Games, Comics, Movies, Shows; as they're all one universe for me)- Luke Skywalker and Palpatine i'd say are definites.

These are the only two truly worth noting.

Darth Caedus,

It's debatable.

Darth Bane

Not even in his wildest dreams. He has no combat feats to even put him in Yoda's league, let alone in the majority of sword-masters during the ROTE era. And to be blunt, his force powers are a complete joke.

Darth Revan

I'm getting sick of seeing Revan constantly being put on these lists. What has he done exactly to make people believe that he's so powerful? He's defeated a featless Sith Lord by re-directing her lightning and barely stood up against Vitiate. Yoda re-directed Palpatine's lightning and fought and held his own against the most powerful Sith of both his time and a millennia. Add on the fact that he's completely featless in regards to saber combat, nothing he's done should put him above the average Jedi Master during the ROTE era.@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Sith Emperor

Considering that Revan had started to gain a slight footing against Vitiate during their fight proves that he's far weaker than people assume him to be. The power he possesses is not even his own. He had to under-go a ritual that gathered dozens of Sith Lord's from across the Galaxy and siphoned their life force as well as the planet's to become immortal and as "powerful" as he was claimed to be. He was a power hungry fool who's only fear was the loss of his own power.

Some refused to answer his call. But many more came. After all, what could one man do against a hundred Sith Lords?

- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

Once they arrived on Nathema, they quickly fell under Lord Vitiate's control. He dominated their minds, crushed their resistance. He turned them into slaves to his will, forcing them to participate in the most complex ritual of Sith Sorcery ever attempted. Calling on the dark side, Lord Vitiate devoured them. He fed on their powers, absorbing it into himself, utterly obliterating all traces of his victims.
But the ritual was not confined to the doomed Sith Lords. They were but the eye of the storm; the center of a vortex that spread across the entire planet. Every man, woman and child on Nathema died that day. Every beast, bird and fish; all the insects and plants; every living thing being touched by the force was consumed. When the ritual ended, Nathema was no longer a world. It was a husk sucked dry. Lord Vitiate sacrificed millions, stealing their life force to make himself immortal. Their deaths also made him stronger than any Sith who had come before, and he ceased to be known as Lord Vitiate. On that day, the Emperor was truly born.

- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

His force power was nigh-unmatchable in his time, but he was also completely featless in regards to saber combat. I don't think it was even stated that he held a saber.

The only potential candidate that was possibly as or more powerful than Yoda himself was Plagueis, but he was lacking in fights, albeit the feats he did possess were indeed impressive. Besides that:

@ShootingNova said:

Abeloth, Ones of Mortis, and Bedlam Sprits are also above Yoda.

Moderator
#38 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

As others have pointed out, it's ambiguous. Yoda is obviously powerful, but then he had to train Luke to defeat Vader/Palpatine. There's an element of destiny that screws the curve.

#39 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan said:

Luke Skywalker
Palpatine
Darth Caedus

Agreed. Plagueis doesn't have enough feats for that. Caedus is debatable, unless you're talking about when Jacen achieved Oneness.

And I just realized there are more. Since the OP said "Star Wars universe", and NOT Jedi/Sith, Abeloth, Ones of Mortis, and Bedlam Sprits are also above Yoda.

Caedus was able to fight Luke Skywalker. They fought evenly for a bit; I'd say that's a good feat.

Bedlams spirits, probably. I do not recognize Abeloth, the Mortis guys, etc.

#40 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7680 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan: A technique like that shows he's really powerful. That's a technique even Palpatine didn't know. Not to mention he killed Krayt, someone Caedus & Luke feared.

Still fail to see why it matters. He wasn't very skilled with it and he required physical contact.

Krayt has no feats that make him worthy of this fear.

Considering it's a technique that for pretty much the whole Star Wars series was most likely deemed to be impossible I think it matters and is a testament to his skills. And judging that he has brought back multiple people to life with it, he has skill in it. Not to mention he could injure others with the technique also.

Doesn't matter. They both knew however that he could've been more powerful than both of them.

It's not. You still haven't shown how he can use it in a combative capacity. He threatened used it on Talon after he beat her.

Also, I want proof that it was midi-chlorian manipulation. Perhaps I missed where this was stated; and I don't want assumptions.

"Could have." Could haves mean nothing.

The fact that they feared him yet never met him is safe to say he is more powerful.

And he can't use it in a combative compacity, other than to injure people. It's a technique, called dark transfer that works similar to midi-chlorian manipulation. Given that it's a technique that brings back those from the dead, this is a high-level technique that could make Cade's force knowledge superior to that of Yoda's, possibly making him more powerful.

#41 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@JediXMan: A technique like that shows he's really powerful. That's a technique even Palpatine didn't know. Not to mention he killed Krayt, someone Caedus & Luke feared.

Still fail to see why it matters. He wasn't very skilled with it and he required physical contact.

Krayt has no feats that make him worthy of this fear.

Considering it's a technique that for pretty much the whole Star Wars series was most likely deemed to be impossible I think it matters and is a testament to his skills. And judging that he has brought back multiple people to life with it, he has skill in it. Not to mention he could injure others with the technique also.

Doesn't matter. They both knew however that he could've been more powerful than both of them.

It's not. You still haven't shown how he can use it in a combative capacity. He threatened used it on Talon after he beat her.

Also, I want proof that it was midi-chlorian manipulation. Perhaps I missed where this was stated; and I don't want assumptions.

"Could have." Could haves mean nothing.

The fact that they feared him yet never met him is safe to say he is more powerful.

And he can't use it in a combative compacity, other than to injure people. It's a technique, called dark transfer that works similar to midi-chlorian manipulation. Given that it's a technique that brings back those from the dead, this is a high-level technique that could make Cade's force knowledge superior to that of Yoda's, possibly making him more powerful.

Bingo. You just said similar. Dark Transfer =/= midi-chlorian manipulation; there ya go. Still fail to see how it makes him more powerful.

And again, it means nothing. Show me feats that show Krayt is anywhere near Yoda's league. Feats.

#42 Posted by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: You mean when Caedus had an advantage? Caedus also got scared off by Luke's illusory fleet.

Bedlam Spirits are omnipotent. They are for sure. Yes, FotJ was appalling, but Abeloth is more powerful. G-Canon fails, but Lucas said the Ones could only be matched by Abeloth and Anakin at his full potential.

#43 Posted by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Suggesting Krayt had power even remotely on-par with that of Yoda's is laughable.

#44 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: You mean when Caedus had an advantage? Caedus also got scared off by Luke's illusory fleet.

Bedlam Spirits are omnipotent. They are for sure. Yes, FotJ was appalling, but Abeloth is more powerful. G-Canon fails, but Lucas said the Ones could only be matched by Abeloth and Anakin at his full potential.

Caedus had an advantage, but Luke had the element of surprise. Caedus was caught off guard and still managed to come back. Before Luke got caught in Caedus' "toys," the two were matching speed for some time. That alone is a worthy feat.

Bedlam Spirits, I know and I say, fine. The others: I ignore them.

#45 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: Suggesting Krayt had power even remotely on-par with that of Yoda's is laughable.

Agreed. It's quite disturbing.

#46 Posted by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Well, the advantage took away most of the advantage of having the element of surprise.

Okay, but you worded it differently. And ignore them as you please, I couldn't care less.

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: Suggesting Krayt had power even remotely on-par with that of Yoda's is laughable.

Agreed. It's quite disturbing.

Well, I don't like the way people barge in and spread misinformation for the sake of looking cool.

#47 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: Well, the advantage took away most of the advantage of having the element of surprise.

Okay, but you worded it differently. And ignore them as you please, I couldn't care less.

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: Suggesting Krayt had power even remotely on-par with that of Yoda's is laughable.

Agreed. It's quite disturbing.

Well, I don't like the way people barge in and spread misinformation for the sake of looking cool.

So doesn't that kind of balance it out, in an odd twisted sense? Just throwing that out there. But I'm not talking about the point when Caedus got the upper hand; I'm talking about when the two of them matched speeds, becoming blurs that Ben couldn't even follow.

I just said "probably." I don't recall whether they were immune to physical damage or not; if not, I could always claim that Yoda could blitz at least one of them if he felt inclined to do so. I'm reaching at this point, but...

I just ignore... well, most of what comes out recently, it appears.

#48 Posted by JediXMan (29295 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: Suggesting Krayt had power even remotely on-par with that of Yoda's is laughable.

Agreed. It's quite disturbing.

Well, I don't like the way people barge in and spread misinformation for the sake of looking cool.

Who does? This thread in general irritates me.

#49 Posted by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

So doesn't that kind of balance it out, in an odd twisted sense? Just throwing that out there. But I'm not talking about the point when Caedus got the upper hand; I'm talking about when the two of them matched speeds, becoming blurs that Ben couldn't even follow.

I just said "probably." I don't recall whether they were immune to physical damage or not; if not, I could always claim that Yoda could blitz at least one of them if he felt inclined to do so. I'm reaching at this point, but...

I just ignore... well, most of what comes out recently, it appears.

Yes, but it could be possible Luke was holding back. It's been a while since I've gone around this part but Luke does tend to hold back, and against family he would be more inclined to do so.

They can manipulate time/mass etc. So Yoda would just be frozen. I thought they were intangible? But they can change shapes, and I think they can make themselves formless.

LOL.

@JediXMan: Not necessarily anybody specifically, just that it's happened before and I don't like it. Just throwing it out. But questions like this are better answered by Silver etc.

#50 Posted by ShootingNova (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Asgardian Hulk said:

Mace Windu? Emperor Palpatine? Starkiller?

These characters may be more powerful than Yoda, but it's hard to have a definitive answer.

Mace Windu is the best swordsman in the Star Wars Universe since he could defeat Palpatine in a lightsaber duel when even Yoda couldn't. But both Yoda and Palpatine are stronger with the force than Windu. Starkiller has some pretty impressive lightsaber/force feats too.

I would say Palpatine is the most powerful character since he defeated Yoda, and killed Mace Windu after losing a lightsaber duel, killed Starkiller after losing a lightsaber duel, and technically killed Darth Vader as Darth Vader threw Palpatine to his death. It seems the only thing worse than losing a fight with Palpatine, is winning a fight with Palpatine.

I would say that Emperor Palpatine is the only person more powerful than Yoda.

No. Utterly and truly incorrect.

Mace Windu himself has attested to being inferior to Yoda in duelling skill:

Perhaps only Master Mace Windu equaled him in skill and reputation-though Master Windu argued that he was still but a Padawan compared to Master Yoda.

-Taken from the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook

And he did not defeat Palpatine either:

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

Furthermore, he can't even react to Palpatine by standard means:

Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

Windu required an amp of gargantuan level to even react and fight against Sidious:

Because Mace, too, has an attachment. Mace has a secret love. Mace Windu loves the Republic.
Many of his students quote him to students of their own: "Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace."
For Mace Windu, for all his life, for all the lives of a thousand years of Jedi before him, true civilization has had only one true name: the Republic.
He has given his life in the service of his love. He has taken lives in its service, and lost the lives of innocents. He has seen beings that he cares for maimed, and killed, and sometimes worse: sometimes so broken by the horror of the struggle that their only answer was to commit horrors greater still.
And because of that love now, here, in this instant, Anakin Skywalker has nine words for him that shred his heart, burn its pieces, and feed him its smoking ashes.
Palpatine is Sidious. The Chancellor is the Sith Lord.
He doesn't even hear the words, not really; their true meaning is too large for his mind gather in all at once.
They mean that all he's done, and all that has been done to him—
That all the Order has accomplished, all it has suffered—
All the Galaxy itself has gone through, all the years of suffering and slaughter, the death of entire planets—
Has all been for nothing.
Because it was all done to save the Republic.
Which was already gone.
Which had already fallen.
The corpse of which had been defended only by a Jedi Order that was now under the command of a Dark Lord of the Sith. Mace Windu's entire existence has become crystal so shot-through with flaws that the hammer of those nine words has crushed him to sand.

.......................

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith (the ...... is other parts of the book that aren't necessary)

And Mace can do nothing against Palpatine's lightning:

Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"

This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

In fact, Palpatine has also moved faster than the eye of Anakin:

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

-- Taken from Revenge of the Sith

Who can see sub-light speed movement in slow-motion:

Obi-Wan was already making that exact move as Anakin spoke. But they were inverted to each other: breaking right shot him one way while Anakin whipped the other. The tri-fighters' cannons ripped space between them, tracking faster than their starfighters could slip. His onboard threat display chimed a warning: two of the droids had remote sensor locks on him. The others must have lit up his partner. "Anakin! Slip-jaws!"
"My thought exactly."
They blew past the tri-fighters, looping in evasive spirals. The droid ships wrenched themselves into pursuit maneuvers that would have killed any living pilot. The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.
But these particular pilots were far from merely human.
The Force nudged hands on control yokes and the Jedi starfighters twisted and flashed past each other belly-to-belly, close enough to scorch each other's paint.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

So Anakin and Windu have similar levels of natural reaction. But Windu can fight and react as fast as Palpatine, right? Then how is it possible that he never moved faster than Grievous, Ventress, Dooku or Sora Bulq's eyes could see? The answer is: he can't.

Furthermore, even Saesee Tiin has sparred with Windu evenly:

Hopefully I don't have to explain this again.

Galen Marek (Starkiller) is overrated. His duelling skills are absolutely appalling, and his Force Power is nowhere near Yoda's either.

@Strafe Prower said:

Some of the old republic sith lords dwarf Yoda in power. Darth Sidious is also more powerful.

Really? Like who? Revan? Bane? Nihilus? Traya? Sion? Vitiate? Exar Kun? Ulic-Qel Droma? King Adas? Dathka Graush? Naga Sadow? Ludo Kressh? Marka Ragnos? Tulak Hord? Ajunta Pall? Sorzus Syn? All are inferior to Yoda, save for Nihilus who has the potential chance to defeat Yoda in combat, but that chance is so slim and remote it is completely buried by Yoda's far higher chance of defeating Nihilus.

@DarthShap said:

Exar Kun.

And this is incorrect as well. Exar Kun has some impressive duelling feats and skills, but not on-par with Yoda's; he stalemated Ood Bnar. And you also have to note that he was amped by trinkets and relics also.

This is true of Force Powers as well; without relics and trinkets, Kun's showings are greatly inferior to that of Yoda's, not exactly vastly, but by quite a bit.