Would you still enjoy that character even after that character was written to look bad? A good example would be how Iron Man was written during "Civil War" and how his character might have been ruined because of that event, but it seems like his character hasn't really suffered, even after that event.
If your favorite character was written terribly...
I think it would depend on what they did, and how it affected them. If they were really sorry about what they had done, and worked to put things right, I could probably forgive them, unless it was something really bad.
I think it would depend on what they did, and how it affected them. If they were really sorry about what they had done, and worked to put things right, I could probably forgive them, unless it was something really bad.
I agree. As long as the character set out to rectify the mistakes they made, then I would still like that character in the long run, as long as their personalities don't change for the worst.
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
He had the right idea in principle. Its the execution of the plan I had issues with.
@gambler: @judasnixon: I guess, but i think he felt he needed to keep his actions a secret to protect everyone and i also think that Tony believed that his comrades would trust him more. Let's face it, as much as Cap was the 'hero ' of the story, he was pretty quick to go on the offensive against Tony, despite the fact they had been team-mates (with their differences) for years. Captain America was pretty self righteous through the whole thing, without looking at the bigger picture. Poor Tony, all he could see was the big picture and was tarnished as a villain ever since.
It depends on the extent and the context of the writing:
Can I tolerate Geoff Johns' Batman? Yes - it's inaccurate but sufferable. Can I tolerate J. Michael's Superman? Lord no.
As for a character being written to be 'bad', I have to say that Captain America definitely suffered from this in AvX. He kind of jumped between authoritarian douche to sensible leader in that whole kerfuffle. I remember it got to one point on the CBR forums that people actually wanted Cap to be beaten up. And when Cap was eventually kicked out of the Illuminati, there was much rejoicing - and a lot of hate for my favorite Marvel being vindicated.
Personally, I didn't care much from the event because I knew it was a ill-thought-out attempt to boost sales. So Cap's portrayal in it wasn't taken seriously by me. But the amount of hate for Cap it generated in the fallout...I hadn't anticipated that.
Johns didn't do that good on Batman? I hear he's pretty good with Green Lantern and I've really liked him on Aquaman.
Did his writing not translate well to Batman?
I didn't read AvX but I saw a few scans and he was acting totally out of character.
So whenever that kinda stuff happens I just remember the writing that made that character my favorite(Ed Bunker) and just hope he's written better in the future.
Batman is seemingly the one character that Johns can't write or stand, for that matter. I recall reading something about Johns not liking his lack of powers, but in nearly every appearance written by him, Batman comes off as near-useless (really, throwing thermate at Ocean Master? Tasering Supes?). I'm not saying Johns hates the character, just that he seems to lack an understanding of what makes Batman Batman. He misses the whole bit about the genius detective who keeps up with superhumans, and focuses on the paranoid prep master from Tower of Babel.
Ugh, yeah. Not liking Remender's present run, but here's hoping Cap gets to shine in the future.
Depends on how bad they've been effected by the writing. Hopefully Tim Drake gets reverted back to normal. :(
This.
Tim was the first character I thought of when I saw the title of this thread. It's honestly become pretty difficult for me to still consider him one of my favorite characters...
Sure, it just requires more effort as far as talking to people about your favorite character and good and bad writing. For all the criticism directed at the Iron Man character, a lot of characters were acting unlikable/idiotic in Civil War, both sides were wrong, but plot wise the story was interesting and compelling hence such mischaracterization was forgivable for many. In contrast AVX suffered from as much mischaracterization, and the plot was cheap and as a consequence its much more universally maligned.
The thing about characters and writers is that writers come and go. So many of my favorite characters, Rogue, Emma Frost, Hulk, Harley Quinn, Bleez, Thor, Sentry, Wonder Woman, Gambit ave all experienced writers who objectively speaking made me dislike the character bearing the name of one of my favorites, but thats the nature of fictional characters. Usually a fan of a character has reasons for liking those characters, and the consistency of those those reasons applied will allow that fan to continue being a fan, and then deviation from that consistency may result in disliking of a character but its really more dislike in the change or writing of the character more accurately than the actual character. Sometimes unfortunately it can be a waiting game in comics, waiting for a new writer or direction. Its also why I am a huge fan of X-Factor and PAD, and generally a fan of writers being on a title for a while.
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
Probably.
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
Probably.
It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.
...
Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
Probably.
It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.
...
Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.
Alan Moore's always maintained that people weren't supposed to like Rorschach and look how that turned out.
Back on Civil War, I think most people have a hard time rooting for the guy who puts superheroes in a gulag.
All my favorite Secret Six members got the shaft in Flashpoint, so yeah... :/
King Shark and Ragdoll's deaths in particular, were almost blatantly impossible given their powers...
I'm still a Spider-Man fan even after Peter Parker—avatar for personal responsibility—sold his wife to the literal devil. So yeah I can still handle it. I'm also still a huge Star Wars fan even after the prequels.
Mephisto isnt the real Devil, he's a deviant who uses dark magic and pretends to be the devil, but i understand your point.
On the topic of Secret Six/Suicide Squad members, I almost forgot how far off the deep end Adam Glass has gone with Waller, King Shark, and Deadshot in the nu52
I'm still a Spider-Man fan even after Peter Parker—avatar for personal responsibility—sold his wife to the literal devil. So yeah I can still handle it. I'm also still a huge Star Wars fan even after the prequels.
Mephisto isnt the real Devil, he's a deviant who uses dark magic and pretends to be the devil, but i understand your point.
I thought he was one of many true "devils". Such is the implication in current x-factor arc.
Punisher was written worse than Stark in the main Civil War arc. Fans were just so delighted that he was drawn and painted right for a change. In Matt Fraction's own run of War Journal, he was written so much better... but looked like a humanoid meatball.
I think between Ennis and Rucka, my favourite character there - ol' Frankie - has been treated pretty badly at times, receiving both bad writing and art work, but he's enduring and endearing oddly so that when a good writer gives him something to get his teeth into, really amazing things happen. But then I heard a lot of fans of the Avengers getting a little redfaced that Punisher turned out to be quite the contender (like that's a surprise).
Just please do not let Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron or Mark Millar near my favourite character again please!
Sure, it just requires more effort as far as talking to people about your favorite character and good and bad writing. For all the criticism directed at the Iron Man character, a lot of characters were acting unlikable/idiotic in Civil War, both sides were wrong, but plot wise the story was interesting and compelling hence such mischaracterization was forgivable for many. In contrast AVX suffered from as much mischaracterization, and the plot was cheap and as a consequence its much more universally maligned.
The thing about characters and writers is that writers come and go. So many of my favorite characters, Rogue, Emma Frost, Hulk, Harley Quinn, Bleez, Thor, Sentry, Wonder Woman, Gambit ave all experienced writers who objectively speaking made me dislike the character bearing the name of one of my favorites, but thats the nature of fictional characters. Usually a fan of a character has reasons for liking those characters, and the consistency of those those reasons applied will allow that fan to continue being a fan, and then deviation from that consistency may result in disliking of a character but its really more dislike in the change or writing of the character more accurately than the actual character. Sometimes unfortunately it can be a waiting game in comics, waiting for a new writer or direction. Its also why I am a huge fan of X-Factor and PAD, and generally a fan of writers being on a title for a while.
I definitely agree with all this! Usually, the best thing I could do is wait for a good writer to come along and start writing my favorite characters better. So, I usually don't get so upset if I don't read any current issues that features my favorite characters being written terribly since once the new writer comes in, most of those issues would be wiped away (sometimes).
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
Probably.
It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.
...
Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.
What would Miller know about that when he didn't wrote the story? Did he talked to Millar?
It depends on the extent and the context of the writing:
Can I tolerate Geoff Johns' Batman? Yes - it's inaccurate but sufferable. Can I tolerate J. Michael's Superman? Lord no.
As for a character being written to be 'bad', I have to say that Captain America definitely suffered from this in AvX. He kind of jumped between authoritarian douche to sensible leader in that whole kerfuffle. I remember it got to one point on the CBR forums that people actually wanted Cap to be beaten up. And when Cap was eventually kicked out of the Illuminati, there was much rejoicing - and a lot of hate for my favorite Marvel being vindicated.
Personally, I didn't care much from the event because I knew it was a ill-thought-out attempt to boost sales. So Cap's portrayal in it wasn't taken seriously by me. But the amount of hate for Cap it generated in the fallout...I hadn't anticipated that.
That's the problem with badly written events, they can cause a huge fallout for the characters involved and I don't know if half of these characters will be written better in the future.
Indeed. And it wasn't just Cap who suffered in the fallout. Prior to AvX, Cyclops was the general of the entirety of mutantkind - he made questionable decisions but he was still portrayed as a loyal leader. And I know his fanatical belief in Hope had been building for some time, and yeah the Phoenix played a part, but I'm not a fan of how he went full-revolutionary after AvX.
Indeed. And it wasn't just Cap who suffered in the fallout. Prior to AvX, Cyclops was the general of the entirety of mutantkind - he made questionable decisions but he was still portrayed as a loyal leader. And I know his fanatical belief in Hope had been building for some time, and yeah the Phoenix played a part, but I'm not a fan of how he went full-revolutionary after AvX.
Me either. It felt too forced for me and it seemed like they were trying so hard to make Wolverine the leader of the X-Men that they were willing to make Cyclops seem like the bad guy to make it work when there were other ways this could have been done, like kill off Cyclops and Wolverine steps up (although that would be too controversial for the fans).
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
Probably.
It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.
...
Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.
What would Miller know about that when he didn't wrote the story? Did he talked to Millar?
I meant Mark Millar. Autocorrect changed it to "Miller." Think it was pretty obvious who I meant, though.
I also like to add that I still like Cyclops, even though he's not one of my top favorite X-Men. Just lately the way he's been written as a bit of an antagonist to the X-Men was a bit too abrupt and I would have been okay with all of these changes if they had actually spent some time developing all of these changes instead of forcing them in these events.
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
He had the right idea in principle. Its the execution of the plan I had issues with.
Nah he was just wrong!
Depends on how bad they've been effected by the writing. Hopefully Tim Drake gets reverted back to normal. :(
This.
Tim was the first character I thought of when I saw the title of this thread. It's honestly become pretty difficult for me to still consider him one of my favorite characters...
I think it's hard for all of us Tim Drake fans.
Nope. I started reading comics an year ago and he reason I became fan of some characters is because I liked the writing. I became Punisher fan after reading Greg Rucka's series. Now that Way is writing Punisher. I just -_-
Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?
He had the right idea in principle. Its the execution of the plan I had issues with.
Nah he was just wrong!
I can live with that
Confrontation defused ;P
@gambler: That was well handled! Honestly I was just looking for an excuse to use the gif.......cuz its hilarious!
@judasnixon: @rabbitearsblog: Iron Man was written to character in Civil War. If you read Operation: Galactic Storm and Armor Wars it fits his character. He's always been brash and impulsive. If he thinks something is right then there is no debate with him. He's very one sided in his thinking and because he's a genius he doesn't see his mistakes. Civil War was just another chapter in the long Captain America/Iron Man ideology debate.
To answer the question in the OP; I have continued to buy and enjoy when my favorite character was written poorly. When Spider-Man went through "Clone Wars" and OMD, I was right there with my money in hand both smiling and cringing at the same time. I was very optimistic the whole time and really didn't get to feel better about it until JMS came aboard.
@judasnixon: @rabbitearsblog: Iron Man was written to character in Civil War. If you read Operation: Galactic Storm and Armor Wars it fits his character. He's always been brash and impulsive. If he thinks something is right then there is no debate with him. He's very one sided in his thinking and because he's a genius he doesn't see his mistakes. Civil War was just another chapter in the long Captain America/Iron Man ideology debate.
To answer the question in the OP; I have continued to buy and enjoy when my favorite character was written poorly. When Spider-Man went through "Clone Wars" and OMD, I was right there with my money in hand both smiling and cringing at the same time. I was very optimistic the whole time and really didn't get to feel better about it until JMS came aboard.
I sometimes get optimistic too if my favorite character is written badly. I usually hope that a better writer comes along to do the character justice and sometimes it happens, I just have to wait for it to happen.
I wouldn't mind too much, Hulk's various personalities leads to different behaviour anyway so its not like he would be out of character.
Superman - my second favourite currently - I would mind though.
I wouldn't mind too much, Hulk's various personalities leads to different behaviour anyway so its not like he would be out of character.
Superman - my second favourite currently - I would mind though.
I think Hulk is probably the only time that I also wouldn't mind the constant character changing, since his personality does depend on how angry he gets.
My favourite characters;
Batman
Cyclops
Spider-Man
the Sentry
Black Bolt
Ms Marvel
Emma Frost
Superman
Wally West
Hulk
Hank Pym
Eddie Brock
Doctor Doom
Lex Luthor
Damian Wayne
-------------------------------------
Those in bold are either ruined, being written TERRIBLY (by everyone other than Morrison) or dead.
The only one that I still enjoy reading about is.... wait, none of them.
I don't blame characters for bad writers, but I will stop reading their titles until things get good again. It seems like I've been waiting a long time for Spider-Man to stop sucking.
I don't blame characters for bad writers, but I will stop reading their titles until things get good again. It seems like I've been waiting a long time for Spider-Man to stop sucking.
It seems that Spider-Man hadn't been the same ever since "One More Day" got started.
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