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#1 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

Would you still enjoy that character even after that character was written to look bad? A good example would be how Iron Man was written during "Civil War" and how his character might have been ruined because of that event, but it seems like his character hasn't really suffered, even after that event.

#2 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it would depend on what they did, and how it affected them. If they were really sorry about what they had done, and worked to put things right, I could probably forgive them, unless it was something really bad.

#3 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it would depend on what they did, and how it affected them. If they were really sorry about what they had done, and worked to put things right, I could probably forgive them, unless it was something really bad.

I agree. As long as the character set out to rectify the mistakes they made, then I would still like that character in the long run, as long as their personalities don't change for the worst.

#4 Edited by judasnixon (6217 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

#5 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84595 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

He had the right idea in principle. Its the execution of the plan I had issues with.

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#6 Edited by feebadger (1436 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler: @judasnixon: I guess, but i think he felt he needed to keep his actions a secret to protect everyone and i also think that Tony believed that his comrades would trust him more. Let's face it, as much as Cap was the 'hero ' of the story, he was pretty quick to go on the offensive against Tony, despite the fact they had been team-mates (with their differences) for years. Captain America was pretty self righteous through the whole thing, without looking at the bigger picture. Poor Tony, all he could see was the big picture and was tarnished as a villain ever since.

#7 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on the extent and the context of the writing:

Can I tolerate Geoff Johns' Batman? Yes - it's inaccurate but sufferable. Can I tolerate J. Michael's Superman? Lord no.

As for a character being written to be 'bad', I have to say that Captain America definitely suffered from this in AvX. He kind of jumped between authoritarian douche to sensible leader in that whole kerfuffle. I remember it got to one point on the CBR forums that people actually wanted Cap to be beaten up. And when Cap was eventually kicked out of the Illuminati, there was much rejoicing - and a lot of hate for my favorite Marvel being vindicated.

Personally, I didn't care much from the event because I knew it was a ill-thought-out attempt to boost sales. So Cap's portrayal in it wasn't taken seriously by me. But the amount of hate for Cap it generated in the fallout...I hadn't anticipated that.

#8 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still a Spider-Man fan even after Peter Parker—avatar for personal responsibility—sold his wife to the literal devil. So yeah I can still handle it. I'm also still a huge Star Wars fan even after the prequels.

#9 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7595 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

Johns didn't do that good on Batman? I hear he's pretty good with Green Lantern and I've really liked him on Aquaman.

Did his writing not translate well to Batman?

#10 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7595 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read AvX but I saw a few scans and he was acting totally out of character.

So whenever that kinda stuff happens I just remember the writing that made that character my favorite(Ed Bunker) and just hope he's written better in the future.

#11 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie

Batman is seemingly the one character that Johns can't write or stand, for that matter. I recall reading something about Johns not liking his lack of powers, but in nearly every appearance written by him, Batman comes off as near-useless (really, throwing thermate at Ocean Master? Tasering Supes?). I'm not saying Johns hates the character, just that he seems to lack an understanding of what makes Batman Batman. He misses the whole bit about the genius detective who keeps up with superhumans, and focuses on the paranoid prep master from Tower of Babel.

Ugh, yeah. Not liking Remender's present run, but here's hoping Cap gets to shine in the future.

#12 Posted by The_Tree (7235 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on how bad they've been effected by the writing. Hopefully Tim Drake gets reverted back to normal. :(

#13 Posted by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

Alas many of my favorites are written terribly. Cable can't stop dying, Sabretooth keeps getting dumber and weaker every appearance, Apocalypse often written as the weakest most powerful threat. I'm pretty sure Toad will beat him next time

*sigh*

#14 Posted by JakeN7 (10935 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_tree said:

Depends on how bad they've been effected by the writing. Hopefully Tim Drake gets reverted back to normal. :(

This.

Tim was the first character I thought of when I saw the title of this thread. It's honestly become pretty difficult for me to still consider him one of my favorite characters...

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#15 Posted by Joygirl (18716 posts) - - Show Bio

This is my life, essentially. It's horrible.

#16 Posted by SC (12717 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure, it just requires more effort as far as talking to people about your favorite character and good and bad writing. For all the criticism directed at the Iron Man character, a lot of characters were acting unlikable/idiotic in Civil War, both sides were wrong, but plot wise the story was interesting and compelling hence such mischaracterization was forgivable for many. In contrast AVX suffered from as much mischaracterization, and the plot was cheap and as a consequence its much more universally maligned.

The thing about characters and writers is that writers come and go. So many of my favorite characters, Rogue, Emma Frost, Hulk, Harley Quinn, Bleez, Thor, Sentry, Wonder Woman, Gambit ave all experienced writers who objectively speaking made me dislike the character bearing the name of one of my favorites, but thats the nature of fictional characters. Usually a fan of a character has reasons for liking those characters, and the consistency of those those reasons applied will allow that fan to continue being a fan, and then deviation from that consistency may result in disliking of a character but its really more dislike in the change or writing of the character more accurately than the actual character. Sometimes unfortunately it can be a waiting game in comics, waiting for a new writer or direction. Its also why I am a huge fan of X-Factor and PAD, and generally a fan of writers being on a title for a while.

Moderator
#17 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17332 posts) - - Show Bio

i'd probably still like the character. But it still depends on what happens to them, i'd say that HULK , X-23 and Spider-man Would always remain favorites of mine, but if they go through some terrible characterization i might stay away from them and come back someone comes up who knows what their doing. currently rulk is suffering from this, he is written as a douche bag and not the good kind. Spider-man is also written poorly now, but i am still a fan of him.

i think this would be the most accurate to how i feel ~ If a character isn't one of my PERSONAL favorites, i MIGHT not hate him if he is written poorly, but still it depends on the characterization, it could be drastic like Iron mans role in Civil war.

#18 Posted by roboadmiral (538 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

Probably.

#19 Posted by JediXMan (29654 posts) - - Show Bio

I still like Samus Aran.

'Nuff said.

#20 Edited by JediXMan (29654 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

Probably.

It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.

...

Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.

#21 Edited by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

I stay far away from Spider-man post OMD and haven't even read the storyline. The concepts is just wrong and I stay with the old Spider-man stories from the past I haven't read. So yeah Spider-man as a recent character is ruined for me.

#22 Posted by JediXMan (29654 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

I stay far away from Spider-man post OMD and haven't even read the storyline. The concepts is just wrong and I stay with the old Spider-man stories from the past I haven't read. So yeah Spider-man as a recent character is ruined for me.

Same.

#23 Posted by roboadmiral (538 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@roboadmiral said:

@judasnixon said:

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

Probably.

It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.

...

Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.

Alan Moore's always maintained that people weren't supposed to like Rorschach and look how that turned out.

Back on Civil War, I think most people have a hard time rooting for the guy who puts superheroes in a gulag.

#24 Edited by mightyrearranger (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

All my favorite Secret Six members got the shaft in Flashpoint, so yeah... :/

King Shark and Ragdoll's deaths in particular, were almost blatantly impossible given their powers...

#25 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12570 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I'm still a Spider-Man fan even after Peter Parker—avatar for personal responsibility—sold his wife to the literal devil. So yeah I can still handle it. I'm also still a huge Star Wars fan even after the prequels.

Mephisto isnt the real Devil, he's a deviant who uses dark magic and pretends to be the devil, but i understand your point.

#26 Edited by mightyrearranger (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

On the topic of Secret Six/Suicide Squad members, I almost forgot how far off the deep end Adam Glass has gone with Waller, King Shark, and Deadshot in the nu52

#27 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I'm still a Spider-Man fan even after Peter Parker—avatar for personal responsibility—sold his wife to the literal devil. So yeah I can still handle it. I'm also still a huge Star Wars fan even after the prequels.

Mephisto isnt the real Devil, he's a deviant who uses dark magic and pretends to be the devil, but i understand your point.

I thought he was one of many true "devils". Such is the implication in current x-factor arc.

#28 Posted by dtm1980 (240 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher was written worse than Stark in the main Civil War arc. Fans were just so delighted that he was drawn and painted right for a change. In Matt Fraction's own run of War Journal, he was written so much better... but looked like a humanoid meatball.

I think between Ennis and Rucka, my favourite character there - ol' Frankie - has been treated pretty badly at times, receiving both bad writing and art work, but he's enduring and endearing oddly so that when a good writer gives him something to get his teeth into, really amazing things happen. But then I heard a lot of fans of the Avengers getting a little redfaced that Punisher turned out to be quite the contender (like that's a surprise).

Just please do not let Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron or Mark Millar near my favourite character again please!

#29 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

Sure, it just requires more effort as far as talking to people about your favorite character and good and bad writing. For all the criticism directed at the Iron Man character, a lot of characters were acting unlikable/idiotic in Civil War, both sides were wrong, but plot wise the story was interesting and compelling hence such mischaracterization was forgivable for many. In contrast AVX suffered from as much mischaracterization, and the plot was cheap and as a consequence its much more universally maligned.

The thing about characters and writers is that writers come and go. So many of my favorite characters, Rogue, Emma Frost, Hulk, Harley Quinn, Bleez, Thor, Sentry, Wonder Woman, Gambit ave all experienced writers who objectively speaking made me dislike the character bearing the name of one of my favorites, but thats the nature of fictional characters. Usually a fan of a character has reasons for liking those characters, and the consistency of those those reasons applied will allow that fan to continue being a fan, and then deviation from that consistency may result in disliking of a character but its really more dislike in the change or writing of the character more accurately than the actual character. Sometimes unfortunately it can be a waiting game in comics, waiting for a new writer or direction. Its also why I am a huge fan of X-Factor and PAD, and generally a fan of writers being on a title for a while.

I definitely agree with all this! Usually, the best thing I could do is wait for a good writer to come along and start writing my favorite characters better. So, I usually don't get so upset if I don't read any current issues that features my favorite characters being written terribly since once the new writer comes in, most of those issues would be wiped away (sometimes).

#30 Edited by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@roboadmiral said:

@judasnixon said:

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

Probably.

It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.

...

Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.

What would Miller know about that when he didn't wrote the story? Did he talked to Millar?

#31 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

It depends on the extent and the context of the writing:

Can I tolerate Geoff Johns' Batman? Yes - it's inaccurate but sufferable. Can I tolerate J. Michael's Superman? Lord no.

As for a character being written to be 'bad', I have to say that Captain America definitely suffered from this in AvX. He kind of jumped between authoritarian douche to sensible leader in that whole kerfuffle. I remember it got to one point on the CBR forums that people actually wanted Cap to be beaten up. And when Cap was eventually kicked out of the Illuminati, there was much rejoicing - and a lot of hate for my favorite Marvel being vindicated.

Personally, I didn't care much from the event because I knew it was a ill-thought-out attempt to boost sales. So Cap's portrayal in it wasn't taken seriously by me. But the amount of hate for Cap it generated in the fallout...I hadn't anticipated that.

That's the problem with badly written events, they can cause a huge fallout for the characters involved and I don't know if half of these characters will be written better in the future.

#32 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabbitearsblog

Indeed. And it wasn't just Cap who suffered in the fallout. Prior to AvX, Cyclops was the general of the entirety of mutantkind - he made questionable decisions but he was still portrayed as a loyal leader. And I know his fanatical belief in Hope had been building for some time, and yeah the Phoenix played a part, but I'm not a fan of how he went full-revolutionary after AvX.

#33 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@rabbitearsblog

Indeed. And it wasn't just Cap who suffered in the fallout. Prior to AvX, Cyclops was the general of the entirety of mutantkind - he made questionable decisions but he was still portrayed as a loyal leader. And I know his fanatical belief in Hope had been building for some time, and yeah the Phoenix played a part, but I'm not a fan of how he went full-revolutionary after AvX.

Me either. It felt too forced for me and it seemed like they were trying so hard to make Wolverine the leader of the X-Men that they were willing to make Cyclops seem like the bad guy to make it work when there were other ways this could have been done, like kill off Cyclops and Wolverine steps up (although that would be too controversial for the fans).

#34 Posted by JediXMan (29654 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@jedixman said:

@roboadmiral said:

@judasnixon said:

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

Probably.

It's worth noting that, according to Miller, Iron Man was the one who the fans were supposed to side with.

...

Something got seriously screwed up somewhere, if that's the case.

What would Miller know about that when he didn't wrote the story? Did he talked to Millar?

I meant Mark Millar. Autocorrect changed it to "Miller." Think it was pretty obvious who I meant, though.

#35 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (32848 posts) - - Show Bio

If I don't like it I just drop the book

#36 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I also like to add that I still like Cyclops, even though he's not one of my top favorite X-Men. Just lately the way he's been written as a bit of an antagonist to the X-Men was a bit too abrupt and I would have been okay with all of these changes if they had actually spent some time developing all of these changes instead of forcing them in these events.

#37 Posted by Strider92 (16133 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler said:

@judasnixon said:

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

He had the right idea in principle. Its the execution of the plan I had issues with.

Nah he was just wrong!

http://i.imgur.com/HfdoT3l.gif

#38 Posted by Raw_Material (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

It's already happened to Aquaman before.

#39 Edited by Echelon (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@the_tree said:

Depends on how bad they've been effected by the writing. Hopefully Tim Drake gets reverted back to normal. :(

This.

Tim was the first character I thought of when I saw the title of this thread. It's honestly become pretty difficult for me to still consider him one of my favorite characters...

I think it's hard for all of us Tim Drake fans.

#40 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6116 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope. I started reading comics an year ago and he reason I became fan of some characters is because I liked the writing. I became Punisher fan after reading Greg Rucka's series. Now that Way is writing Punisher. I just -_-

#41 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84595 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler said:

@judasnixon said:

Am I the only one who thought Tony Stark was right during Civil War?

He had the right idea in principle. Its the execution of the plan I had issues with.

Nah he was just wrong!

I can live with that

Confrontation defused ;P

Moderator
#42 Posted by Strider92 (16133 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler: That was well handled! Honestly I was just looking for an excuse to use the gif.......cuz its hilarious!

#43 Posted by Night Thrasher (3605 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: @rabbitearsblog: Iron Man was written to character in Civil War. If you read Operation: Galactic Storm and Armor Wars it fits his character. He's always been brash and impulsive. If he thinks something is right then there is no debate with him. He's very one sided in his thinking and because he's a genius he doesn't see his mistakes. Civil War was just another chapter in the long Captain America/Iron Man ideology debate.

To answer the question in the OP; I have continued to buy and enjoy when my favorite character was written poorly. When Spider-Man went through "Clone Wars" and OMD, I was right there with my money in hand both smiling and cringing at the same time. I was very optimistic the whole time and really didn't get to feel better about it until JMS came aboard.

#44 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: @rabbitearsblog: Iron Man was written to character in Civil War. If you read Operation: Galactic Storm and Armor Wars it fits his character. He's always been brash and impulsive. If he thinks something is right then there is no debate with him. He's very one sided in his thinking and because he's a genius he doesn't see his mistakes. Civil War was just another chapter in the long Captain America/Iron Man ideology debate.

To answer the question in the OP; I have continued to buy and enjoy when my favorite character was written poorly. When Spider-Man went through "Clone Wars" and OMD, I was right there with my money in hand both smiling and cringing at the same time. I was very optimistic the whole time and really didn't get to feel better about it until JMS came aboard.

I sometimes get optimistic too if my favorite character is written badly. I usually hope that a better writer comes along to do the character justice and sometimes it happens, I just have to wait for it to happen.

#45 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind too much, Hulk's various personalities leads to different behaviour anyway so its not like he would be out of character.

Superman - my second favourite currently - I would mind though.

#46 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind too much, Hulk's various personalities leads to different behaviour anyway so its not like he would be out of character.

Superman - my second favourite currently - I would mind though.

I think Hulk is probably the only time that I also wouldn't mind the constant character changing, since his personality does depend on how angry he gets.

#47 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

My favourite characters;

Batman

Cyclops

Spider-Man

the Sentry

Black Bolt

Ms Marvel

Emma Frost

Superman

Wally West

Hulk

Hank Pym

Eddie Brock

Doctor Doom

Lex Luthor

Damian Wayne

-------------------------------------

Those in bold are either ruined, being written TERRIBLY (by everyone other than Morrison) or dead.

The only one that I still enjoy reading about is.... wait, none of them.

#48 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't blame characters for bad writers, but I will stop reading their titles until things get good again. It seems like I've been waiting a long time for Spider-Man to stop sucking.

#49 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't blame characters for bad writers, but I will stop reading their titles until things get good again. It seems like I've been waiting a long time for Spider-Man to stop sucking.

It seems that Spider-Man hadn't been the same ever since "One More Day" got started.

#50 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10362 posts) - - Show Bio

HMMM...IDK when The Hulk/Banner is written badly It's painful ...but think I could endure it.