I wish more females read comics.

@Nelomaxwell said:

I love the medium of comics and I wish that more people felt welcome in it than just those who are current standing community.

Agreed.

But I have to say I am impressed with the general rise of women's interest in comics over time. I work a bit in my LCS and actually a fair percent of the people coming in are women. Maybe a third. I know that's nowhere near half, but it's a lot better than it used to be. I would hope it's enough that women who are interested in comics don't feel totally alone.

There was a study some time ago that said that in any group of people, like a board or classroom or office, you need at least 3 of an underrepresented kind of people (based on race or gender or whatever) in order for them to feel like like they are basically not the token whatever, and that they instead feel like they are perceived as an three-dimensional individual by the others in the company. Not to wander into politics, but I think this was kind of a key piece of data when both Kagan and Sotormayor joined Ginsburg on the Supreme Court...they can be seen as individuals, and no single one of them has to be seen as the "women's vote," etc. So, bringing this back to comics, I think ~30% hopefully is a decent level where women who like comics at least feel like a minority group rather than completely isolated individuals.

@Nelomaxwell: I'll defer you to the literally thousands of words I've written already explaining my extraordinary loathing of the series and everything it stands for (in the form of four or five blogs and dozens of posts), rather than try to take up that fight here. I wholeheartedly agree with @V_Scarlotte_Rose : had they not decided to endanger or kill characters people love, there are a lot of people who would have loved reading a deathmatch-style Marvel book.

@Nelomaxwell: I don't mind one as long as the one I'm having with can respect I have a different opinion. Your first post gave me a very strong impression that you wanted the comics to change to get females into comics. Maybe that wasn't your point but it what that impression it gave me and others.

@Nelomaxwell said:

I love the medium of comics and I wish that more people felt welcome in it than just those who are current standing community.

Agreed.

But I have to say I am impressed with the general rise of women's interest in comics over time. I work a bit in my LCS and actually a fair percent of the people coming in are women. Maybe a third. I know that's nowhere near half, but it's a lot better than it used to be. I would hope it's enough that women who are interested in comics don't feel totally alone.

There was a study some time ago that said that in any group of people, like a board or classroom or office, you need at least 3 of an underrepresented kind of people (based on race or gender or whatever) in order for them to feel like like they are basically not the token whatever, and that they instead feel like they are perceived as an three-dimensional individual by the others in the company. Not to wander into politics, but I think this was kind of a key piece of data when both Kagan and Sotormayor joined Ginsburg on the Supreme Court...they can be seen as individuals, and no single one of them has to be seen as the "women's vote," etc. So, bringing this back to comics, I think ~30% hopefully is a decent level where women who like comics at least feel like a minority group rather than completely isolated individuals.

@Nelomaxwell: I don't mind one as long as the one I'm having with can respect I have a different opinion. Your first post gave me a very strong impression that you wanted the comics to change to get females into comics. Maybe that wasn't your point but it what that impression it gave me and others.

@Nelomaxwell: Wack !

@Nelomaxwell: Indeed you are. My point was that writers should do the story they wanted and don't care if the a target towards males or females. If a writer for instance whats to do a romance, then he or she should do it. I probably won't read it, but everybody has their taste. My point was then that the comics/characters that are being done now IMO shouldn't change to get more female writers (here I used a steorotypical example like get more soap opera into comics) and if they do I wont buy the stories (because there is no reason to buy anything you don't like). The only thing I would like is that females in comics was protraited more diverse and that they way too often have way too little/few clothes on becaues that is believed that what is all men wants. This is overdone, borring, silly childish and has been old for years. If that change does that the comics get more female readers fine by me. But that is not my goal, my goal is to get good stories (stories I like).

@Nelomaxwell:Wack

@Nelomaxwell: Indeed you are. My point was that writers should do the story they wanted and don't care if the a target towards males or females. If a writer for instance whats to do a romance, then he or she should do it. I probably won't read it, but everybody has their taste. My point was then that the comics/characters that are being done now IMO shouldn't change to get more female writers (here I used a steorotypical example like get more soap opera into comics) and if they do I wont buy the stories (because there is no reason to buy anything you don't like). The only thing I would like is that females in comics was protraited more diverse and that they way too often have way too little/few clothes on becaues that is believed that what is all men wants. This is overdone, borring, silly childish and has been old for years. If that change does that the comics get more female readers fine by me. But that is not my goal, my goal is to get good stories (stories I like).

@Nelomaxwell:Wack

@Batnandez said:

@Nelomaxwell: Why aren't there more comics for senior citizens or muslims or any other demographic out there. Seriously I don't want to read comics geared towards women, I don't. [1] I like comics geared toward my demographic. [2] I don't understand how that makes me a massive idiot. [3] Apparently you all think women are idiots because they like manga. Good for them. I'm so sick of all this gender bs in society. [4] It's permeated into comics now and it's annoying. [5] Every week catwoman's boobs are too big. There aren't enough female centric comics. [6] YOU KNOW WHY!!! BECAUSE MEN READ COMICS MORE!!! OMG what a revelation!!! I can't be freakinglive that marvel and dc gear there comics towards mostly male readers, what a shocker.

This reply needs to be immortalized somewhere. My first post on Comic Vine was agreeing with someone who said Avengers Arena was everything wrong with comics, but I'll rescind that. This is everything wrong with comics.

1. Desiring that comics remain exclusionary.
2. Failing to understand how this desire is problematic.
3. Latent misunderstanding of foreign media coupled with misogynistic understanding of genre appeal.
4. Feeling threatened by desire of females to enter male-dominated field; overreaction surmising catastrophe should females actually become active part of said field.
5. Dismissal of others' concerns on the basis that they are not one's own concerns; read: belief that industry ought to cater to one's personal preferences at exclusion of those of others.
6. Mistaking effect for cause.
7. Belief that Marvel & DC catering to men by writing interesting comics attracts male readers, but denying that were they to also cater to women, more women would read comics.

Honestly. Epic.

@tupiaz said:

[1] But it will happen natural as the media gets more mature. It shouldn't be forced and change from one day to another.

[2] Let the stories come by the selfs when the writter has a story he or she wants to tell.

1. And how long do we have to wait? Comics have existed for over 3/4 of a century. The whole American society has changed in less than half that time to reflect women as equals. Gaming, which has only existed for 30-40 years (so less than half of the American comics industry's life) is already at a 50/50 split in gamer demographic and is making leaps and bounds towards having more women in the workplace and consciously evaluating whether the way it represents women is acceptable in a society that actually respects women as people. The industry may be maturing, but it's doing so at a preposterously retarded (slow, folks) pace. I'd say it definitely does need to be kicked into gear, because the rest of the world is absolutely flying past it.
2. If you don't have more female writers, or Muslim writers, or LGBT writers, then you're just not going to have many writers wanting to tell stories that prominently feature and celebrate those people groups. It won't just happen magically. It's had over 70 years to do that. Time's up. We need to get intentional.

@Nelomaxwell: It was to give examples and was the thoughts I got when you want more female readers. Today I think woman can go out and find the comics they want I don't think you need to focus on them. I also think that females are capable to get into comics if they want to. And if girls wants to read manga more than the want to read US comics then fine (that is my experience). Personally I think it is a bigger issue that many/most comic readers in US thinks that US comics is the only way to do comics and comics from Europe (which is very different) or manga isn't worth reading. I have nothing against female writers at all and they can do stories I like to read just like men. Ann Nocenti is writer I enjoy. Could you get different kind of stories with female writers sure. I don't know how many female writers gets rejected so I can tell you if there is a problem getting in as a female writter. My bet it is that it is easier to get in as a male though. I have only read Captain Marvel from the 80's and that is about ten years ago, so I don't remember it that well.

It was to give examples and was the thoughts I got when you want more female readers

Today I think woman can go out and find the comics they want I don't think you need to focus on them
 

I have only read Captain Marvel from the 80's and that is about ten years ago, so I don't remember it that well.

I wish more females would hook up with comic book buyers.

I wish more females would hook up with comic book buyers.

@akbogert: Nope stories before forced female, lesbian or muslim. I would rather read a good story written be white jerk than a bad story written by a lesbian muslim. I'm not saying these stories shouldn't be told. But getting bad stories instead of good stories about the subject will just hurt more than bideenefit. When this will happened I don't know. when or if the comic sales will ever be 50/50. My question is does it need to be and why. Isn't it ok some media is more used by some geneders/sexuality than others. I'm pretty sure more females buys a sewing machines and food magazines than men. But is that bad is that something we need? Likewise is comic something women need? Let the females decide if they want to read comics or not. If they want to that will change the market naturally.

A middeleast comic book company has by the way already made a comic about muslim culture and religion. It is called The 99 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_99No as far as I know there isn't a comic about muslim in the West.

@Nelomaxwell said:

My ex who was built like an amazon btw loved Walking Dead, Scalped and Fables all because I introduced her to them and they weren't male centric.

Well that's okay.

@tupiaz said:

Isn't it ok some media is more used by some geneders/sexuality than others. I'm pretty sure more females buys a sewing machines and food magazines than men.

The answer to that is extremely simple: Sewing machines and cooking aren't storytelling artistic media. Comics are. Storytelling is not a masculine thing, it is a human thing. The ability to tell and be told stories has nothing to do with gender, race, or creed. So no, it's not okay that mostly men use comics to tell and to be told stories, anymore than it would be okay if men or women made a small portion of filmmakers/viewers, book writers/readers, photographers, sculptors, painters, etc. etc. etc.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@ImmortalOne: Look at the genre's manga has, they vary and expand.

I think manga has an advantage in that they come out on a weekly basis, which allows the writers to develop stories quicker, I would trade in colored pages for four times the comics a month. Also it is easier to get manga then comics, I read it online for free, I buy my comics.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@tupiaz:

It was to give examples and was the thoughts I got when you want more female readers

But I'm asking why was that the thought because it seems stereotypical.

To give a simple exsample.

@Nelomaxwell said:

Today I think woman can go out and find the comics they want I don't think you need to focus on them

Not if they don't feel welcome and don't know where to start.

Apparently I have more faith in females than you. If they want to ask where to start the can do it rather easy on the internet. Here you don't even know the gender if you have a nick that is sexual neutral. I do believe a women can either search on the internet to get a top ten list of good comics for character X and Y or make a account on a comic forum and ask. I also blieve they are can go to a comic book store and by their books or get them on amazon

.@Nelomaxwell said:

I meant the current series where Carol Danvers AKA MS. Marvel is now Captain Marvel.

Nope haven't read it. Worth checking out?

@akbogert: Nope stories before forced female, lesbian or muslim. I would rather read a good story written be white jerk than a bad story written by a lesbian muslim. I'm not saying these stories shouldn't be told. But getting bad stories instead of good stories about the subject will just hurt more than bideenefit

@akbogert said:

@tupiaz said:

Isn't it ok some media is more used by some geneders/sexuality than others. I'm pretty sure more females buys a sewing machines and food magazines than men.

The answer to that is extremely simple: Sewing machines and cooking aren't storytelling artistic media. Comics are. Storytelling is not a masculine thing, it is a human thing. The ability to tell and be told stories has nothing to do with gender, race, or creed. So no, it's not okay that mostly men use comics to tell and to be told stories, anymore than it would be okay if men or women made a small portion of filmmakers/viewers, book writers/readers, photographers, sculptors, painters, etc. etc. etc.

Made need food as much as females acutally we need more food. My point is car magazines and football magazines have a costumer base of men. This is wrong or against female rights. Just like more men buying comics is against female rights is. If the femlaes wants to read comics. They will chech it out a buy it. If it doesn't rock their boat they wont. If they want something new and fresh then they can start it by the selfs for instance by kickstarter.

@tupiaz said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

Today I think woman can go out and find the comics they want I don't think you need to focus on them

Not if they don't feel welcome and don't know where to start.

Apparently I have more faith in females than you. If they want to ask where to start the can do it rather easy on the internet. Here you don't even know the gender if you have a nick that is sexual neutral. I do believe a women can either search on the internet to get a top ten list of good comics for character X and Y or make a account on a comic forum and ask. I also blieve they are can go to a comic book store and by their books or get them on amazon

.@Nelomaxwell said:

I meant the current series where Carol Danvers AKA MS. Marvel is now Captain Marvel.

Nope haven't read it. Worth checking out?

I didn't bother asking or looking anything up. I just starting buying stuff to see what I liked. Worked out pretty well

I read Captain Marvel. and I like it. Opinions seem to be divided on the current artist, but the story is good. And there's a mini crossover event with Avengers Assemble starting in a few months.

Perfume samples. That is all.

@Nelomaxwell: I'm not but I don't believe they are going to just good. They can be good and bad like everything else. I just want a good story before a story about a certain topic. That those mean you shouldn't do a story with these topics. You could make some very good and within comic groundbreaking story. But let us get the groundbreaking story first and not a ton of bad ones.

Your argument was that you'd like more females to read comics for a) diversity and b) more female writers, right?

I'm good with diversity, but diversity for the sake of diversity is kind of meaningless, which is why I felt that your second point was a bit more...well, meaningful.

I don't feel writers should be judged on gender, period, therefore more female writers is kind of an iffy idea to me. Just hire the good ones, people, it's not that hard.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@tupiaz:

The series is good unless you have an issue reading a female character written by a female.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: How did you get into comics?

I've liked films, cartoons, toys etc throughout life, and just got the idea one day to see what comics were like. So I just started buying a variety of them, whatever I could get cheap, found some characters I liked, and started buying things with them in them.

@tupiaz: Do you pick up romance novels off the shelves when you see muscly, shirtless guys and roses on them?

No?

Is it possibly because the representation on the cover just tells you the material inside isn't targeted towards you? Is it possible that there's actually some very good storytelling in some of those books, but because the people who write them "know" men will never read them, they market them just towards women?

See, if the writers of those books were actually writing stuff that was solidly artistic and appealing to men and women equally, then they would want to attract men and women to read them and they would have a vested interest in making sure the covers of the books, among things, were welcoming to all readers. So the comics which already are good for both genders, all they need to "change" is making sure their covers aren't overly male fanservicing. But if the trouble is that the stories and the handling of females in general is misogynistic, then having a good cover won't fix things, anymore than having a normal cover on a crappy romance novel would make it good writing or appealing to your typical male.

It's in everyone's best interest to have more comics that women can pick up and that will "rock their boat." I don't believe that women are so dramatically different that writing something women will like requires writing something men wouldn't like. If all you like is misogynistic fantasy, then maybe you're right. But if you like good stories with cool characters, then there's no reason to think that marketing towards women will result in stories that suck.

Magazines may have target demographics, and its true that certain hobbies have gender biases. You probably won't find too many car magazines targeting women. But you'll find plenty of magazines targeting women. The genres may differ in their appeal, but the entire medium is equal. And that's what should happen with comics. There should be more equality. There should be books which are written specifically with women -- with girly girls -- in mind, as well as books which cater to all audiences. Right now there's very little of any of the former, and there's some of the latter, and there's a whole lot of catering to manly men. That's the backwards thinking I'm saying needs to go away. That's the change I want to see happen fast rather than at its own (snail's) pace.

First I didn't want to say anything, then I read something like,

females only like shojo manga and romance

and I just have to say... No!

I'm female, I like manga and comics, but that doesn't mean that:

• I like love stories (I'm okay with them, if their good written, but I don't need them)
• want girly stuff in comics (just no Dx)

if you ask me which manga genres I like, it would be

• action
• mystery
• supernatural
• comedy

e.g. Baccano!, Blue Exorcist, Detective Conan, Fullmetal Alchemist, One Piece, etc...

I like them for the stories, not for the romance (even when Baccano and Detective Conan do have love stories in them), the same goes for comics. I love reading comics because of their stories and I don't need necessarily any romance in it, that I read them.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@tupiaz:

The series is good unless you have an issue reading a female character written by a female.

Why would I. Seems like you want to put certain opinions on me that I don't have.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I'm assuming you are a lady? If so I would like your opinion about how you see the comic culture. You can probably give a better picture what how it is to be a female in the comic culture than a male.

Your argument was that you'd like more females to read comics for a) diversity and b) more female writers, right?

I'm good with diversity, but diversity for the sake of diversity is kind of meaningless, which is why I felt that your second point was a bit more...well, meaningful.

I don't feel writers should be judged on gender, period, therefore more female writers is kind of an iffy idea to me. Just hire the good ones, people, it's not that hard.

@tupiaz said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@tupiaz:

The series is good unless you have an issue reading a female character written by a female.

Why would I. Seems like you want to put certain opinions on me that I don't have.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I'm assuming you are a lady? If so I would like your opinion about how you see the comic culture. You can probably give a better picture what how it is to be a female in the comic culture than a male.

I am. What would you like to know?

It's probably better if you ask me questions, just so I can be more specific about what aspects you're curious about.

@Nelomaxwell: Well, good writing is good writing. It involves a variety of things, virtually all of which boil down to the writer's skill. I believe good writing requires proper and interesting characterization, a good and followable plot, good wording, and a point. It needs to be well (or at least decently) executed, and have as little filler as possible (filler being anything which is strictly unecessary, in this case).

@Nelomaxwell: Well, good writing is good writing. It involves a variety of things, virtually all of which boil down to the writer's skill. I believe good writing requires proper and interesting characterization, a good and followable plot, good wording, and a point. It needs to be well (or at least decently) executed, and have as little filler as possible (filler being anything which is strictly unecessary, in this case).

@Nelomaxwell: Wack

@Nelomaxwell said:

Is it possible that something can be written well and people not care about it because it say doesn't hold any interest to them?

This has happened to me

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

I'm really sorry if you felt any disrespect. I wrote something I didn't mean. I just meant DC or Marvel fans are mostly boys but not all of them and a lot of girls I've met liked romances, but I know there are girls who like DC or Marvel and there are boys who like romances.

@Nelomaxwell: Yes, but why would the reader be reading it if it didn't interest them?

I know that's kind of idealized, but I'm talking about fiction here, so I'm hoping it's at least somewhat valid :P

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@SC:You'd think comics might be more popular considering all the comic book based movies they have made since the late 90s and onwards. Id also like to raise another point comic books don't seem to be for children anymore, due to their themes that people consider to be for older audiences and the higher price point too.And I mean comics ,comics the ones that get discussed on here. That is what it seems like to me anyway. I also actually think why comics may not be doing as well is because of technology and video games at one point comics were one of the only sources of entertainment for children,maybe that is why they cater to an older audience now.

Well yes its tricky the way other medium influence affects other mediums, suffice to say that there are lots of bridges to be gapped. Movies would probably assist collected trade paper backs if those graphic novels were sold in places almost beside the entrances of theaters. Even then its tricky. Movies can increase awareness but not necessarily comic sales. How both are digested also are factors as far as sales. Collected TPBs/graphic novels tends to be more digestible to casual non comic fans. Great point about age range, since yeah, the age for comics is incredibly broad but they are still being released and marketed to a niche.

I read comics, but nowadays only purchase them online. Honestly, I've had a few bad experiences when I stepped into a comic book shop. I was around 12-14 and would go in there with my mom to buy the packs of Pokemon cards, but a lot of the time I wanted to look around because I'd see spiderman comics, a few other marvel characters and some females that I knew. Needless to say though the shop owner told me to "Hurry up and buy your pokemon cards and get out." I was a kid and didn't say anything (my mom didn't go with me that day), but it left a bad experience for me. I sort of felt like I had no business going in there. By the time I was in my teens, I visited another local comic shop and would search for manga, but one time a female was working at the clerk so I asked her if she could suggest a comic for me to start. What I got was a drilling in questionaries in which case the manager joined in too, I'm not crazy as I'm into other things like video games and I know if I had went in a game shop and asked them to suggest a game, they'd have done the same. It's just that when I didn't know about certain events, they would in turn become super negative and at the end of it said they had nothing to suggest for me, even when I clearly told them I considered myself a beginner.

Nowadays I won't go in a comic shop if I see one unless I'm with a friend who knows their stuff. I think a lot of it has to just do with business tactics, being that its a niche market. I'm pretty thick skinned too, so I can say that it wasn't because I got butthurt. I get that fans of a certain series or thing can be real intense, but if you want females to join you the environment should be as welcome, open and friendly as possible. I'm not saying that all women are gentle sheltered snowflakes, but just be nice to newbs in general. If a female has a good experience and time at your store, she's more likely to bring a friend along and vice versa.

@SC said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@SC:You'd think comics might be more popular considering all the comic book based movies they have made since the late 90s and onwards. Id also like to raise another point comic books don't seem to be for children anymore, due to their themes that people consider to be for older audiences and the higher price point too.And I mean comics ,comics the ones that get discussed on here. That is what it seems like to me anyway. I also actually think why comics may not be doing as well is because of technology and video games at one point comics were one of the only sources of entertainment for children,maybe that is why they cater to an older audience now.

Well yes its tricky the way other medium influence affects other mediums, suffice to say that there are lots of bridges to be gapped. Movies would probably assist collected trade paper backs if those graphic novels were sold in places almost beside the entrances of theaters. Even then its tricky. Movies can increase awareness but not necessarily comic sales. How both are digested also are factors as far as sales. Collected TPBs/graphic novels tends to be more digestible to casual non comic fans. Great point about age range, since yeah, the age for comics is incredibly broad but they are still being released and marketed to a niche.

Yeah that is true.I also think it has to do with people would rather watch something that provides them with all the experience as opposed to sitting and reading something.I am not saying movies are bad or anything I love watching movies but that is just what its like I suppose.Though the films may get people into actually reading comics as well.

I'm female and I have never read a magna comic book. I don't even know where that section is in my comic book store. I only  read comic books that have male heroes and/or vilains in them. If I had the choice between two comic books, one about a male character in it, and one about a female character in it I wouldn't even give the one with the female in it a look.  There was an issue of Punisher (I can't remember which one) where he was on the cover kissing Electra and I thought to myself that the cover wouldn't been so much better with just him on it and not them together.

*raises hand* I read comics. A lot.

Unfortunately all my female friends still believe that the average comic book reader is middle aged, balding and a virgin. They think I'm an anomaly, a one-off. IMO unless the stereotypes are destroyed, there will be fewer female comic readers. (For many it still seen as a stigma, though the opinion is changing slowly.....)

Though I fully understand that this is also a rather 'narrow' way of looking at things.

Why aren't there more black & Scandinavian mainstream writers? Why aren't comics more popular in Africa, south america, Scandinavia, etc? I wish more comics got advertised as much as you know other publicized stuff.

@Nelomaxwell: Yes, but why would the reader be reading it if it didn't interest them?

I know that's kind of idealized, but I'm talking about fiction here, so I'm hoping it's at least somewhat valid :P

@Nelomaxwell: Wack

@Nelomaxwell said:

Is it possible that something can be written well and people not care about it because it say doesn't hold any interest to them?

This has happened to me

@akbogert: You're a moron, when you have to try and force women to do something it's not a fit. I guarantee you will never see firefighters, police men, military dominated by women. There will be SOME women in these fields but they will remain male dominant. Just like comic books. You can appeal to the small group of women who find comics appealing but that group isn't growing anytime soon.