I wish more females read comics.

@Batnandez said:

@Nelomaxwell: I want comics about things I care about not things women care about. That stuff exists and it's called trashy romance weirdo novels and manga.

You do know that not all woman like romance novels, right?

Like you know there are plenty of girls that enjoy action and romance as well, right?

Your opinion is based off an incorrect generalization.

@Batnandez said:

@Nelomaxwell: I want comics about things I care about not things women care about. That stuff exists and it's called trashy romance weirdo novels and manga.

You do know that not all woman like romance novels, right?

Like you know there are plenty of girls that enjoy action and romance as well, right?

Your opinion is based off an incorrect generalization.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm sorry what? I read manga in HS along with a lot of other males and females. In my experience the same amount of Males as females read manga Hence Shonen and Shojo Genre's the former for males the latter for females. You point's not made by the second statement, it's actually proving something else. That if you create subject matter that is appealing to someone then that someone will want to buy said product. Rap is a perfect example, in the 80's-90's rap was mainly black because it was about the black experience. Now it's about money and partying and materialism damn near eveyone in the world loves one if not all of those things and so everyone buys it the majority of album sales in rap of from people who aren't black.

Well as I said there are particular hobbies that are mainly followed by particular genders its not just comic books that are like that. Take football and sport for an example.

I personally am not really a fan of rap,but all people should enjoy it regardless same as comics.

I mean it is really to do with society and how people maybe made to feel they have to like certain things.But if things appeal to people then they will also become interested in them.

@Batnandez said:

@Nelomaxwell: I want comics about things I care about not things women care about. That stuff exists and it's called trashy romance weirdo novels and manga.

Of course, because women only care about romance and puppies and rainbows and whatever other ignorant crap you can come up with.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm sorry what? I read manga in HS along with a lot of other males and females. In my experience the same amount of Males as females read manga Hence Shonen and Shojo Genre's the former for males the latter for females. You point's not made by the second statement, it's actually proving something else. That if you create subject matter that is appealing to someone then that someone will want to buy said product. Rap is a perfect example, in the 80's-90's rap was mainly black because it was about the black experience. Now it's about money and partying and materialism damn near eveyone in the world loves one if not all of those things and so everyone buys it the majority of album sales in rap of from people who aren't black.

Well as I said there are particular hobbies that are mainly followed by particular genders its not just comic books that are like that. Take football and sport for an example.

I personally am not really a fan of rap,but all people should enjoy it regardless same as comics.

I mean it is really to do with society and how people maybe made to feel they have to like certain things.But if things appeal to people then they will also become interested in them.

@Batnandez said:

@Nelomaxwell: I want comics about things I care about not things women care about. That stuff exists and it's called trashy romance weirdo novels and manga.

You are a massive idiot.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm sorry what? I read manga in HS along with a lot of other males and females. In my experience the same amount of Males as females read manga Hence Shonen and Shojo Genre's the former for males the latter for females. You point's not made by the second statement, it's actually proving something else. That if you create subject matter that is appealing to someone then that someone will want to buy said product. Rap is a perfect example, in the 80's-90's rap was mainly black because it was about the black experience. Now it's about money and partying and materialism damn near eveyone in the world loves one if not all of those things and so everyone buys it the majority of album sales in rap of from people who aren't black.

Well as I said there are particular hobbies that are mainly followed by particular genders its not just comic books that are like that. Take football and sport for an example.

I personally am not really a fan of rap,but all people should enjoy it regardless same as comics.

I mean it is really to do with society and how people maybe made to feel they have to like certain things.But if things appeal to people then they will also become interested in them.

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one because it helps a person acclimate to something if they relate to it or want something from it. I'm going to assume women don't want a male power fantasy. I'd like a female to back this up for me though. Also why don't you like rap? What is it about it that you don't dig that a lot of other people do?

People can become interested in different things if it appeals to them and if it relates to them as well.There are plenty of characters I can relate to.

Comics aren't power fantasy what are you talking about? There are plenty of good female characters in comics.

I don't like rap,talking quickly just doesn't amaze me that much its never appealed to me either give me some heavy metal or some classical over that any day.And I don't have to like something just because so many other people do I am my own person with my own preferences.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm sorry what? I read manga in HS along with a lot of other males and females. In my experience the same amount of Males as females read manga Hence Shonen and Shojo Genre's the former for males the latter for females. You point's not made by the second statement, it's actually proving something else. That if you create subject matter that is appealing to someone then that someone will want to buy said product. Rap is a perfect example, in the 80's-90's rap was mainly black because it was about the black experience. Now it's about money and partying and materialism damn near eveyone in the world loves one if not all of those things and so everyone buys it the majority of album sales in rap of from people who aren't black.

Well as I said there are particular hobbies that are mainly followed by particular genders its not just comic books that are like that. Take football and sport for an example.

I personally am not really a fan of rap,but all people should enjoy it regardless same as comics.

I mean it is really to do with society and how people maybe made to feel they have to like certain things.But if things appeal to people then they will also become interested in them.

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one because it helps a person acclimate to something if they relate to it or want something from it. I'm going to assume women don't want a male power fantasy. I'd like a female to back this up for me though. Also why don't you like rap? What is it about it that you don't dig that a lot of other people do?

People can become interested in different things if it appeals to them and if it relates to them as well.There are plenty of characters I can relate to.

Comics aren't power fantasy what are you talking about? There are plenty of good female characters in comics.

I don't like rap,talking quickly just doesn't amaze me that much its never appealed to me either give me some heavy metal or some classical over that any day.And I don't have to like something just because so many other people do I am my own person with my own preferences.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm sorry what? I read manga in HS along with a lot of other males and females. In my experience the same amount of Males as females read manga Hence Shonen and Shojo Genre's the former for males the latter for females. You point's not made by the second statement, it's actually proving something else. That if you create subject matter that is appealing to someone then that someone will want to buy said product. Rap is a perfect example, in the 80's-90's rap was mainly black because it was about the black experience. Now it's about money and partying and materialism damn near eveyone in the world loves one if not all of those things and so everyone buys it the majority of album sales in rap of from people who aren't black.

Well as I said there are particular hobbies that are mainly followed by particular genders its not just comic books that are like that. Take football and sport for an example.

I personally am not really a fan of rap,but all people should enjoy it regardless same as comics.

I mean it is really to do with society and how people maybe made to feel they have to like certain things.But if things appeal to people then they will also become interested in them.

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one because it helps a person acclimate to something if they relate to it or want something from it. I'm going to assume women don't want a male power fantasy. I'd like a female to back this up for me though. Also why don't you like rap? What is it about it that you don't dig that a lot of other people do?

People can become interested in different things if it appeals to them and if it relates to them as well.There are plenty of characters I can relate to.

Comics aren't power fantasy what are you talking about? There are plenty of good female characters in comics.

I don't like rap,talking quickly just doesn't amaze me that much its never appealed to me either give me some heavy metal or some classical over that any day.And I don't have to like something just because so many other people do I am my own person with my own preferences.

And how do you relate to these characters? What characteristic do you have in common? If they're so good why don't they have their own books and why aren't more female writers writing them? I didn't say you had to like anything, And rap isn't actually talking quickly. There are any number of literary devices used in any given song but that's beyond the point. What I was saying was you like what you do, why? You like heavy metal why? does it speak to you? and if so why? Why do you like classical? What I'm getting at is reliability goes along way just because you can relate to stuff because of the way it is now doesn't mean others can.

Depends on the character.

Female characters have had their own comics.Again maybe it has to do with the target audience.Id like to see villains have their own run besides heroes as well.

Okay what is your point? I like that stuff because of the same reason I like comics and action figures because they appeal to me I enjoy them I am interested in them.Stuff that might relate to me might not to others I get that I never said anything to suggest otherwise.What is your point?

Hulk sure some girls read comics. Possibly millions. Puny human just need to find it.

@Nelomaxwell: I pray you're right for the sake of humanity.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm sorry what? I read manga in HS along with a lot of other males and females. In my experience the same amount of Males as females read manga Hence Shonen and Shojo Genre's the former for males the latter for females. You point's not made by the second statement, it's actually proving something else. That if you create subject matter that is appealing to someone then that someone will want to buy said product. Rap is a perfect example, in the 80's-90's rap was mainly black because it was about the black experience. Now it's about money and partying and materialism damn near eveyone in the world loves one if not all of those things and so everyone buys it the majority of album sales in rap of from people who aren't black.

Well as I said there are particular hobbies that are mainly followed by particular genders its not just comic books that are like that. Take football and sport for an example.

I personally am not really a fan of rap,but all people should enjoy it regardless same as comics.

I mean it is really to do with society and how people maybe made to feel they have to like certain things.But if things appeal to people then they will also become interested in them.

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one because it helps a person acclimate to something if they relate to it or want something from it. I'm going to assume women don't want a male power fantasy. I'd like a female to back this up for me though. Also why don't you like rap? What is it about it that you don't dig that a lot of other people do?

People can become interested in different things if it appeals to them and if it relates to them as well.There are plenty of characters I can relate to.

Comics aren't power fantasy what are you talking about? There are plenty of good female characters in comics.

I don't like rap,talking quickly just doesn't amaze me that much its never appealed to me either give me some heavy metal or some classical over that any day.And I don't have to like something just because so many other people do I am my own person with my own preferences.

And how do you relate to these characters? What characteristic do you have in common? If they're so good why don't they have their own books and why aren't more female writers writing them? I didn't say you had to like anything, And rap isn't actually talking quickly. There are any number of literary devices used in any given song but that's beyond the point. What I was saying was you like what you do, why? You like heavy metal why? does it speak to you? and if so why? Why do you like classical? What I'm getting at is reliability goes along way just because you can relate to stuff because of the way it is now doesn't mean others can.

Depends on the character.

Female characters have had their own comics.Again maybe it has to do with the target audience.Id like to see villains have their own run besides heroes as well.

Okay what is your point? I like that stuff because of the same reason I like comics and action figures because they appeal to me I enjoy them I am interested in them.Stuff that might relate to me might not to others I get that I never said anything to suggest otherwise.What is your point?

Hulk sure some girls read comics. Possibly millions. Puny human just need to find it.

@Nelomaxwell: What about female villains? What do you mean don't even go there?

Multiple things really its hard to explain when taking it in such a broad context.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@TheHulk said:

Hulk sure some girls read comics. Possibly millions. Puny human just need to find it.

I'm friends with a number of them but that doesn't negate the fact that it's a small number compared to the amount of males who read comics.

There seems to be more male characters and male solo titles. Maybe if there were more female characters with solo titles, being marketed as much as male characters, there might be more female readers. This is only a possibility, as it's not like I only follow female characters, but maybe other people would like to focus on characters of their own sex.

However, I have no idea what the ratio of male to female readers is. I could be pretty balanced for all I know.

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

@Nelomaxwell: What about female villains? What do you mean don't even go there?

Multiple things really its hard to explain when taking it in such a broad context.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@TheHulk said:

Hulk sure some girls read comics. Possibly millions. Puny human just need to find it.

I'm friends with a number of them but that doesn't negate the fact that it's a small number compared to the amount of males who read comics.

There seems to be more male characters and male solo titles. Maybe if there were more female characters with solo titles, being marketed as much as male characters, there might be more female readers. This is only a possibility, as it's not like I only follow female characters, but maybe other people would like to focus on characters of their own sex.

However, I have no idea what the ratio of male to female readers is. I could be pretty balanced for all I know.

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell: What about female villains? What do you mean don't even go there?

Multiple things really its hard to explain when taking it in such a broad context.

"Oh now it's female villains" Which ones bruh. Which ones would you wanna see? Then tell me since you're gonna say that's what you meant.

And not it's not just give me your top 5.

What? Well solo titles I would like to see would be ones of my favorite characters who are villains.Probably anyway.

Top five what?

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

Woo-ooh! :)

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Names bruh, names. Of females villains that you want to see, in solo books. Top 5 reasons you like Metal and top five reasons you like classical.

None there aren't really any female villains I like that much to be honest.

Em

Metal

Interesting lyrics

Interesting themes

Guitar solos

Unique voices

General style of the music

Classical

John Williams

Relaxing

Sometimes no voices just instruments which I like sometimes

Can add a good atmosphere to things

General style of the music

Is this somehow relevant to the thread?

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Names bruh, names. Of females villains that you want to see, in solo books. Top 5 reasons you like Metal and top five reasons you like classical.

None there aren't really any female villains I like that much to be honest.

Em

Metal

Interesting lyrics?

Interesting themes?

Guitar solos?

Unique voices

General style of the music

Classical

John Williams

Relaxing?

Sometimes no voices just instruments which I like sometimes

Can add a good atmosphere to things

General style of the music

Is this somehow relevant to the thread?

If women/girls like comics for what they are, sure. But if they don't I don't see the need for comics to change so it will get more female readers. I don't need the comics to be more soap opera than they already are. It is fine with the personal life and such, but if you do make it too female friendly I wouldn't be interested, And yes I do believe there is subjects that women like more than men and visa versa. You can however expose females to comics or at least the femlaes you believe could enjoy it. Fine if the media can get a natural bigger audience. But remeber when a product need to focus on many people it will lose focus, if the product only have to serve a little group of fans. It isn't necessary a good think that comics will get more readers.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Names bruh, names. Of females villains that you want to see, in solo books. Top 5 reasons you like Metal and top five reasons you like classical.

None there aren't really any female villains I like that much to be honest.

Em

Metal

Interesting lyrics?

Interesting themes?

Guitar solos?

Unique voices

General style of the music

Classical

John Williams

Relaxing?

Sometimes no voices just instruments which I like sometimes

Can add a good atmosphere to things

General style of the music

Is this somehow relevant to the thread?

Okay so we're throwing your first point out the window then. It is I'm getting to that. I highlighted a couple of things that I think most people I know hate about metal and the reason why is because none of them are relate able to said people or just to discordant rhythmically to actually move anyone. . I won't touch classical because it's obsolete.

Well that is them,as I said its all down to personal taste and preference.

Obsolete? How is classical obsolete? Just because it might not be mainstream does not mean its not around anymore.Look at all the film and video game music that is classical.

If women/girls like comics for what they are, sure. But if they don't I don't see the need for comics to change so it will get more female readers. I don't need the comics to be more soap opera than they already are. It is fine with the personal life and such, but if you do make it too female friendly I wouldn't be interested, And yes I do believe there is subjects that women like more than men and visa versa. You can however expose females to comics or at least the femlaes you believe could enjoy it. Fine if the media can get a natural bigger audience. But remeber when a product need to focus on many people it will lose focus, if the product only have to serve a little group of fans. It isn't necessary a good think that comics will get more readers.

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

QFT.

This thread is pretty revealing though. Despite the hopes that people aren't serious, I think it's pretty clear that there are guys who do believe that girls can and do only like historically effeminate things. And so long as that belief prevails, you're not going to see an outreach to female readers. Because it's believed that they don't exist. Also that they have poor taste and anything women do like to read is crap.

I'm a very straight dude who has almost no interest in sports, cars, weightlifting, or just about anything else that is typically considered a man thing. Yeah, I like games and now I like comics. But those are media. To suggest that I like comics because I'm a guy is as stupid as suggesting women like novels because they're women. It's a medium. It has a range of genres. Different genres appeal to different demographics, sure, but there's no exclusionary principle. I enjoy some Nicholas Sparks novels and films. I also enjoy Quentin Tarantino's work. I don't consider the two mutually exclusive. And I don't consider myself less of a man because I couldn't care less about college basketball or the World Series or muscle cars. So why would I expect that all girls love knitting and chick flicks and gossiping? And why would I question the femininity of a girl who happens to love wrestling or watching giant robots kick the crap out of each other?

Guys can hate "guy stuff" and like girly things. Girls can hate "girly stuff" and like guy things. It happens. A lot. People who like good things will like them regardless of the gender which is arbitrarily associated with liking those things. Meanwhile, the makers of those things -- whether they be the ads for sporting events, or the covers of comic books, or the trailers for video games -- should keep in mind that anyone could potentially enjoy those things, and market appropriately. Don't overdo the testosterone or estrogen factor of your product (unless of course your product really is meant to ostracize users of the opposite sex).

TL;DR: I think the issue isn't so much a failure to reach out to women; I think it's a failure not to drive them away. We don't need to make comics for women (though a couple would definitely be fine!); what we need is to portray comics as a universally enjoyable medium. If women see the majority of comics and get the impression "that's definitely not for me" then something's off.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@tupiaz said:

If women/girls like comics for what they are, sure. But if they don't I don't see the need for comics to change so it will get more female readers. I don't need the comics to be more soap opera than they already are. It is fine with the personal life and such, but if you do make it too female friendly I wouldn't be interested, And yes I do believe there is subjects that women like more than men and visa versa. You can however expose females to comics or at least the femlaes you believe could enjoy it. Fine if the media can get a natural bigger audience. But remeber when a product need to focus on many people it will lose focus, if the product only have to serve a little group of fans. It isn't necessary a good think that comics will get more readers.

We're not talking about across the board just making better comic subjects then guys flying around in capes. Cause to me as man that's wack now. And who says all women like soap operas?

My point was that you shouldn't change the comics I read (f the comics you read are bad, stop reading them and I do feel sorry for you) to appeal to women or to any other demographic. Let the artist do the story they want (if you want to make a romantic comic then do it, but don't Count me as a buyer). Comics is a media where all kind of stories can be told and let them be told. I don't see the need to change the comics to get more femlaes to read them. Let the stories be told by who wants to write them and let the buyers want to buy and read the stories they want to. A writer shouldn't be thinking about who this will appeal to but just write the story she/he fells for.

@akbogert said:

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

QFT.

I'm a very straight dude who has almost no interest in sports, cars, weightlifting, or just about anything else that is typically considered a man thing. Yeah, I like games and now I like comics.

YOUR NOT A MAN!

hehe jk :P

@Nelomaxwell said:

@tupiaz said:

If women/girls like comics for what they are, sure. But if they don't I don't see the need for comics to change so it will get more female readers. I don't need the comics to be more soap opera than they already are. It is fine with the personal life and such, but if you do make it too female friendly I wouldn't be interested, And yes I do believe there is subjects that women like more than men and visa versa. You can however expose females to comics or at least the femlaes you believe could enjoy it. Fine if the media can get a natural bigger audience. But remeber when a product need to focus on many people it will lose focus, if the product only have to serve a little group of fans. It isn't necessary a good think that comics will get more readers.

We're not talking about across the board just making better comic subjects then guys flying around in capes. Cause to me as man that's wack now. And who says all women like soap operas?

My point was that you shouldn't change the comics I read (f the comics you read are bad, stop reading them and I do feel sorry for you) to appeal to women or to any other demographic. Let the artist do the story they want (if you want to make a romantic comic then do it, but don't Count me as a buyer). Comics is a media where all kind of stories can be told and let them be told. I don't see the need to change the comics to get more femlaes to read them. Let the stories be told by who wants to write them and let the buyers want to buy and read the stories they want to. A writer shouldn't be thinking about who this will appeal to but just write the story she/he fells for.

@Nelomaxwell said:

We're not talking about across the board just making better comic subjects then guys flying around in capes. Cause to me as man that's wack now.

I find comics that are not about guys in capes or zombies wack ! runs away

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

QFT.

This thread is pretty revealing though. Despite the hopes that people aren't serious, I think it's pretty clear that there are guys who do believe that girls can and do only like historically effeminate things. And so long as that belief prevails, you're not going to see an outreach to female readers. Because it's believed that they don't exist. Also that they have poor taste and anything women do like to read is crap.

I'm a very straight dude who has almost no interest in sports, cars, weightlifting, or just about anything else that is typically considered a man thing. Yeah, I like games and now I like comics. But those are media. To suggest that I like comics because I'm a guy is as stupid as suggesting women like novels because they're women. It's a medium. It has a range of genres. Different genres appeal to different demographics, sure, but there's no exclusionary principle. I enjoy some Nicholas Sparks novels and films. I also enjoy Quentin Tarantino's work. I don't consider the two mutually exclusive. And I don't consider myself less of a man because I couldn't care less about college basketball or the World Series or muscle cars. So why would I expect that all girls love knitting and chick flicks and gossiping? And why would I question the femininity of a girl who happens to love wrestling or watching giant robots kick the crap out of each other?

Guys can hate "guy stuff" and like girly things. Girls can hate "girly stuff" and like guy things. It happens. A lot. People who like good things will like them regardless of the gender which is arbitrarily associated with liking those things. Meanwhile, the makers of those things -- whether they be the ads for sporting events, or the covers of comic books, or the trailers for video games -- should keep in mind that anyone could potentially enjoy those things, and market appropriately. Don't overdo the testosterone or estrogen factor of your product (unless of course your product really is meant to ostracize users of the opposite sex).

TL;DR: I think the issue isn't so much a failure to reach out to women; I think it's a failure not to drive them away. We don't need to make comics for women (though a couple would definitely be fine!); what we need is to portray comics as a universally enjoyable medium. If women see the majority of comics and get the impression "that's definitely not for me" then something's off.

I have met my fair share of girls who like comics, but what I think that Marvel and DC need to do is go outside the superhero genre, I get that's what they're bread and butter, but genre diversity is just as important to their future as racial/gender diversity. I like the sci-fi stuff DC doesn't make a lot of sci-fi books that arent about superheroes in some shape or form. Another thing that they can do is go for the all ages market. We need to get this notion out of our heads that all-ages = watered down kiddy stuff that adults can't enjoy. Archie hasn't had that problem. Archie the married life is a lot like a soap opera for adults. Sonic and Mega Man appeal to kids and adults and both are very well written.

@Nelomaxwell said:

@akbogert said:

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

QFT.

This thread is pretty revealing though. Despite the hopes that people aren't serious, I think it's pretty clear that there are guys who do believe that girls can and do only like historically effeminate things. And so long as that belief prevails, you're not going to see an outreach to female readers. Because it's believed that they don't exist. Also that they have poor taste and anything women do like to read is crap.

I'm a very straight dude who has almost no interest in sports, cars, weightlifting, or just about anything else that is typically considered a man thing. Yeah, I like games and now I like comics. But those are media. To suggest that I like comics because I'm a guy is as stupid as suggesting women like novels because they're women. It's a medium. It has a range of genres. Different genres appeal to different demographics, sure, but there's no exclusionary principle. I enjoy some Nicholas Sparks novels and films. I also enjoy Quentin Tarantino's work. I don't consider the two mutually exclusive. And I don't consider myself less of a man because I couldn't care less about college basketball or the World Series or muscle cars. So why would I expect that all girls love knitting and chick flicks and gossiping? And why would I question the femininity of a girl who happens to love wrestling or watching giant robots kick the crap out of each other?

Guys can hate "guy stuff" and like girly things. Girls can hate "girly stuff" and like guy things. It happens. A lot. People who like good things will like them regardless of the gender which is arbitrarily associated with liking those things. Meanwhile, the makers of those things -- whether they be the ads for sporting events, or the covers of comic books, or the trailers for video games -- should keep in mind that anyone could potentially enjoy those things, and market appropriately. Don't overdo the testosterone or estrogen factor of your product (unless of course your product really is meant to ostracize users of the opposite sex).

TL;DR: I think the issue isn't so much a failure to reach out to women; I think it's a failure not to drive them away. We don't need to make comics for women (though a couple would definitely be fine!); what we need is to portray comics as a universally enjoyable medium. If women see the majority of comics and get the impression "that's definitely not for me" then something's off.

I think what we're seeing here is sexism. Which proves why comics will never appeal to a wider audience.

simply put.

@Nelomaxwell said:

We're not talking about across the board just making better comic subjects then guys flying around in capes. Cause to me as man that's wack now.

I find comics that are not about guys in capes or zombies wack ! runs away

I have met my fair share of girls who like comics, but what I think that Marvel and DC need to do is go outside the superhero genre, I get that's what they're bread and butter, but genre diversity is just as important to their future as racial/gender diversity. I like the sci-fi stuff DC doesn't make a lot of sci-fi books that arent about superheroes in some shape or form. Another thing that they can do is go for the all ages market. We need to get this notion out of our heads that all-ages = watered down kiddy stuff that adults can't enjoy. Archie hasn't had that problem. Archie the married life is a lot like a soap opera for adults. Sonic and Mega Man appeal to kids and adults and both are very well written.

@akbogert said:

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

QFT.

I'm a very straight dude who has almost no interest in sports, cars, weightlifting, or just about anything else that is typically considered a man thing. Yeah, I like games and now I like comics.

YOUR NOT A MAN!

hehe jk :P

@Pyrogram said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@akbogert said:

@Pyrogram said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@modunhanul said:

I don't think girls like DC or Marvel comics. They like romances.

I currently get eight titles a month, four DC, Four Marvel, and I get TPBs and old issues from both companies quite often. I don't think I own any literature that can claim to be part of the 'romance' genre.

Just thought I should mention that.

You win the thread.

QFT.

This thread is pretty revealing though. Despite the hopes that people aren't serious, I think it's pretty clear that there are guys who do believe that girls can and do only like historically effeminate things. And so long as that belief prevails, you're not going to see an outreach to female readers. Because it's believed that they don't exist. Also that they have poor taste and anything women do like to read is crap.

I'm a very straight dude who has almost no interest in sports, cars, weightlifting, or just about anything else that is typically considered a man thing. Yeah, I like games and now I like comics. But those are media. To suggest that I like comics because I'm a guy is as stupid as suggesting women like novels because they're women. It's a medium. It has a range of genres. Different genres appeal to different demographics, sure, but there's no exclusionary principle. I enjoy some Nicholas Sparks novels and films. I also enjoy Quentin Tarantino's work. I don't consider the two mutually exclusive. And I don't consider myself less of a man because I couldn't care less about college basketball or the World Series or muscle cars. So why would I expect that all girls love knitting and chick flicks and gossiping? And why would I question the femininity of a girl who happens to love wrestling or watching giant robots kick the crap out of each other?

Guys can hate "guy stuff" and like girly things. Girls can hate "girly stuff" and like guy things. It happens. A lot. People who like good things will like them regardless of the gender which is arbitrarily associated with liking those things. Meanwhile, the makers of those things -- whether they be the ads for sporting events, or the covers of comic books, or the trailers for video games -- should keep in mind that anyone could potentially enjoy those things, and market appropriately. Don't overdo the testosterone or estrogen factor of your product (unless of course your product really is meant to ostracize users of the opposite sex).

TL;DR: I think the issue isn't so much a failure to reach out to women; I think it's a failure not to drive them away. We don't need to make comics for women (though a couple would definitely be fine!); what we need is to portray comics as a universally enjoyable medium. If women see the majority of comics and get the impression "that's definitely not for me" then something's off.

I think what we're seeing here is sexism. Which proves why comics will never appeal to a wider audience.

simply put.

I don't think it proves that it will never appeal to a wider audience. It's maybe why it's like that just now, but I imagine it'll get better eventually.

@Nelomaxwell: @Pyrogram: "Never" is a damning word. But it's the only option if the sexism doesn't go away -- because if sexism doesn't go away, comics will die, and then you're right -- they'll never appeal to women because they won't exist.

So we come back to what I said pages ago: that comics fans should be very worried at how backwards the thinking of the industry and its readers is about progressive issues like gender appeal. No industry survives the next fifty years without accepting that women are equal to men and doing its best to reflect that.

@GundamHeavyarms: I quite agree that the all-ages = crap mentality needs to go away. And I do think that genre diversity would be great.

But (and I'm not sure if you were implying this or not, but it bears saying) I don't believe superhero comics are inherently less interesting to women. So while I'm all about more diversity, I don't think that has anything to do with getting more female readers.

@Nelomaxwell: That definitely is an issue (though I think getting upset about making someone else Spider-Man is perhaps more nuanced than mere racism or resistance to change). On the other hand, my ability to believe in the well-wishing of bigwigs is strained, to say the least. If Alonso cared about fans he would not have greenlit a project like Avengers Arena, which is pretty much 100% fueled by the way it pisses off fans. In fact, its major marketing ploy is the way it disregards fans. Change is one thing, but change for change's sake (rather than because the changes are sensible and well-intended) is hardly inherently praiseworthy.

@Nelomaxwell: Why aren't there more comics for senior citizens or muslims or any other demographic out there. Seriously I don't want to read comics geared towards women, I don't. I like comics geared toward my demographic. I don't understand how that makes me a massive idiot. Apparently you all think women are idiots because they like manga. Good for them. I'm so sick of all this gender bs in society. It's permeated into comics now and it's annoying. Every week catwoman's boobs are too big. There aren't enough female centric comics. YOU KNOW WHY!!! BECAUSE MEN READ COMICS MORE!!! OMG what a revelation!!! I can't be freakinglive that marvel and dc gear there comics towards mostly male readers, what a shocker.

@Nelomaxwell said:

Where did I ever say they'd change the comics you read I'm talking about appealing comics. Who said anything about romance comics. Who says all women like romance? Where do you get your facts from? And by bad I'm assuming your referring to most superhero books.

If you want to have a discussion fine, but do it in propper manner or else I wont be in it. The OP wanted the comics to be target more towards girls because we don't have enough female readers and writters (at least that is how I understand it. Then my point was that a writter shouldn't be thinking about targeting a certain reader, but just focus on a good story. I would love comics in general to see more women far more two dimensional thant one dimensional. Also to stop darwing them in eay to little outfits. But it will happen natural as the media gets more mature. It shouldn't be forced and change from one day to another. I'm not saying you can do certain stories or you can have comic with typical female subjects. However I don't see why the comics that are made today should change so that the media is more femlae friendly. Let the stories come by the selfs when the writter has a story he or she wants to tell.

@Nelomaxwell: well, not to derail, I'd point out that Battle Royale (and Lord of the Flies, and Hunger Games, and any other ready comparison) all introduced new characters for their deathmatches, not ones which people had already spent years growing attached to.

@Nelomaxwell: Why aren't there more comics for senior citizens or muslims or any other demographic out there. Seriously I don't want to read comics geared towards women, I don't. I like comics geared toward my demographic. I don't understand how that makes me a massive idiot. Apparently you all think women are idiots because they like manga. Good for them. I'm so sick of all this gender bs in society. It's permeated into comics now and it's annoying. Every week catwoman's boobs are too big. There aren't enough female centric comics. YOU KNOW WHY!!! BECAUSE MEN READ COMICS MORE!!! OMG what a revelation!!! I can't be freakinglive that marvel and dc gear there comics towards mostly male readers, what a shocker.

@akbogert said:

@Nelomaxwell: well, not to derail, I'd point out that Battle Royale (and Lord of the Flies, and Hunger Games, and any other ready comparison) all introduced new characters for their deathmatches, not ones which people had already spent years growing attached to.

I've thought of this before. If they had released a series with new characters, and have the winner go on to be an important character in the Marvel universe, that probably would've been O.K.

@akbogert said:

@Nelomaxwell: well, not to derail, I'd point out that Battle Royale (and Lord of the Flies, and Hunger Games, and any other ready comparison) all introduced new characters for their deathmatches, not ones which people had already spent years growing attached to.

I've thought of this before. If they had released a series with new characters, and have the winner go on to be an important character in the Marvel universe, that probably would've been O.K.

@Nelomaxwell: I'll defer you to the literally thousands of words I've written already explaining my extraordinary loathing of the series and everything it stands for (in the form of four or five blogs and dozens of posts), rather than try to take up that fight here. I wholeheartedly agree with @V_Scarlotte_Rose : had they not decided to endanger or kill characters people love, there are a lot of people who would have loved reading a deathmatch-style Marvel book.