#1 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

I used to work in a shop back in NYC called Forbidden Planet comics. If you've been there I was the black guy with the dreads. Anyway. I thought It sucked that most of females that came into the store went straight to the manga section or were shopping for their boyfriends. My reasons for want this is that more female readers probably means more female writers (at least women who aspire to write comics and set about doing so) This intern gives a broader perspective for readers and creates more Say it with me "Diversity". I love the medium of comics and I wish that more people felt welcome in it than just those who are current standing community. 

#2 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

Well if comics were sold outside of the niche market, there would be a bigger audience.

#3 Posted by ImmortalOne (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell said:

Anyway. I thought It sucked that most of females that came into the store went straight to the manga section

I just don't get it... how are comics considered childish when manga is the exact some thing, only Japanese and read from right to left?

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#4 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@ImmortalOne: Look at the genre's manga has, they vary and expand.
#5 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell: Times are a changing, it's slow ^-^

#6 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18459 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish there where more female "geeks" in general. Id love there to be more females who buy action figures too :(

#7 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fuchsia_Nightingale: To slow sis.
 
@mrdecepticonleader: Gotta make the culture less male centric. Comics as a medium for a long time have been superhero dominated. Superheroes are male power fantasies even Wonder Woman (especially her.) If the face of comics change from Superman, Batman and Spiderman (Notice all the mans) to Say Saga , American Vampire and say Morning Glories then we will see a change.
#8 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see it now...

Somewhere on the internet there is a scrapbooking site and there is a thread...

"I wish more men were into scrapbooking"

...Or insert your own female dominated hobby...

#9 Posted by Bruxae (14006 posts) - - Show Bio

Sad thing is that alot of females would like it if they were simply exposed to it by someone they know, ive converted a few of my friends already!

#10 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Captain_Yesterday said:

I can see it now...

Somewhere on the internet there is a scrapbooking site and there is a thread...

"I wish more men were into scrapbooking"

...Or insert your own female dominated hobby...

Was this an actual comment or are you being a jerk?  
 
@Bruxae said:

Sad thing is that alot of females would like it if they were simply exposed to it by someone they know, ive converted a few of my friends already!


Are you saying they feel like outsiders? who need to be let in to a secret club of some sort?
#11 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18459 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell said:

@Fuchsia_Nightingale: To slow sis.

@mrdecepticonleader: Gotta make the culture less male centric. Comics as a medium for a long time have been superhero dominated. Superheroes are male power fantasies even Wonder Woman (especially her.) If the face of comics change from Superman, Batman and Spiderman (Notice all the mans) to Say Saga , American Vampire and say Morning Glories then we will see a change.

I disagree I don't think comics are "male centric". I mean comics aren't really mainstream like say video games.I think when looking at other things in the media that are more mainstream they are able to appeal to a wider audience.

#12 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell: Whoa touchy touchy.

It was a comment on how women probably say the same thing about men and the hobbies/interests they like.

Jeez.

Chill Out

#13 Posted by AllStarSuperman (22317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday said:

I can see it now...

Somewhere on the internet there is a scrapbooking site and there is a thread...

"I wish more men were into scrapbooking"

...Or insert your own female dominated hobby...

this

#14 Posted by jeanlucpicard (1845 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that wont happen.

#15 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Captain_Yesterday said:

@Nelomaxwell: Whoa touchy touchy.

It was a comment on how women probably say the same thing about men and the hobbies/interests they like.

Jeez.

Chill Out

Sorry I like to be real with people didn't mean to make you feel threatened.
#16 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@Fuchsia_Nightingale: To slow sis.

@mrdecepticonleader: Gotta make the culture less male centric. Comics as a medium for a long time have been superhero dominated. Superheroes are male power fantasies even Wonder Woman (especially her.) If the face of comics change from Superman, Batman and Spiderman (Notice all the mans) to Say Saga , American Vampire and say Morning Glories then we will see a change.

I disagree I don't think comics are "male centric". I mean comics aren't really mainstream like say video games.I think when looking at other things in the media that are more mainstream they are able to appeal to a wider audience.

I'll have to agree to disagree. Neil Gaiman once spoke about this in a Sandman comic, I think it was trade 4. They did a story about a princess fantasy that all girls supposedly have and the opposite of that was the superhero male power fantasy. Also I don't think the main stream thing applies. Manga is not main stream but a lot more females read it. Why? Look at the Shojo genre.
#17 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell: Threatened? Interesting word, but no.

#18 Posted by akbogert (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday: to be fair, he asked the question, didn't just accuse you. I, too, wasn't sure if you meant that girls probably wish the same thing or if you were saying in a tongue-in-cheek way "this would only happen in a guy-dominated space." Nor am I positive that those who agreed with you meant the same thing as you did :P

This is a chicken/egg scenario for sure. Comics pander to men. They are made mostly by men. They are read mostly by men. In order for them to be more attractive to more women, there need to be more women making comics. But of course if women don't read, women won't write, so they'll never write stuff that more women want to read.

Could I have just said the first sentence there? Probably.

But as has been noted, times are changing. Representation's still off, and the industry's still more chauvinistic than not, but it is evolving. I just think it needs to move faster. Gaming has existed for a fraction of the time that comics have been around -- and was born as a male-centric industry -- and is already much more progressive than comics. The fact that another medium joined the race so late and is already winning it should have comics fans and makers more concerned.

#19 Posted by Bruxae (14006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell said:

@Captain_Yesterday said:

I can see it now...

Somewhere on the internet there is a scrapbooking site and there is a thread...

"I wish more men were into scrapbooking"

...Or insert your own female dominated hobby...

Was this an actual comment or are you being a jerk?

@Bruxae said:

Sad thing is that alot of females would like it if they were simply exposed to it by someone they know, ive converted a few of my friends already!

Are you saying they feel like outsiders? who need to be let in to a secret club of some sort?

No.

Im saying that females arent typically exposed to comic books as much as males are, thus more males read comic books.

That includes myself, I had barely heard about comic books until a year or two ago.

#20 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Captain_Yesterday said:

@Nelomaxwell: Threatened? Interesting word, but no.

You told me to chill out as if you assumed I was becoming defensive. However I was asking a legitimate question because of the high volume of trolls on here. So yes threatened because in my experience that's what people say when they feel threatened.
#21 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bruxae said:

@Nelomaxwell said:

@Captain_Yesterday said:

I can see it now...

Somewhere on the internet there is a scrapbooking site and there is a thread...

"I wish more men were into scrapbooking"

...Or insert your own female dominated hobby...

Was this an actual comment or are you being a jerk?

@Bruxae said:

Sad thing is that alot of females would like it if they were simply exposed to it by someone they know, ive converted a few of my friends already!

Are you saying they feel like outsiders? who need to be let in to a secret club of some sort?

No.

Im saying that females arent typically exposed to comic books as much as males are, thus more males read comic books.

That includes myself, I had barely heard about comic books until a year or two ago.

Ah so why do you think they aren't expose to it.
 
@akbogert said:

@Captain_Yesterday: to be fair, he asked the question, didn't just accuse you. I, too, wasn't sure if you meant that girls probably wish the same thing or if you were saying in a tongue-in-cheek way "this would only happen in a guy-dominated space." Nor am I positive that those who agreed with you meant the same thing as you did :P

This is a chicken/egg scenario for sure. Comics pander to men. They are made mostly by men. They are read mostly by men. In order for them to be more attractive to more women, there need to be more women making comics. But of course if women don't read, women won't write, so they'll never write stuff that more women want to read.

Could I have just said the first sentence there? Probably.

But as has been noted, times are changing. Representation's still off, and the industry's still more chauvinistic than not, but it is evolving. I just think it needs to move faster. Gaming has existed for a fraction of the time that comics have been around -- and was born as a male-centric industry -- and is already much more progressive than comics. The fact that another medium joined the race so late and is already winning it should have comics fans and makers more concerned.


Well said.
#22 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: The comment could be applied either way and I meant it both ways.

Either way it was still related to the topic and hand and showed no signs of trolling or anything like that, it wasn't that hard to figure out.

If there was question to it's actual meaning then why not ask how you did? Instead of with an aggressive undertone simply because they did not understand it.

@Nelomaxwell: No you asked a question like a closed minded hard ass and I responded to it trying to lighten you up.

If there was a question to what I meant by my the statement you simply could of asked in a civil way.

I guess my subtly was lost on you, next time I'll be more direct.

#23 Edited by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a shame mini marts and quick stops don't sell comics anymore.

#24 Posted by Xwraith (19601 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish more women read comics too. I also wish geekdom would stop being so sexist.

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#25 Posted by akbogert (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday: See, I disagree. The two ways in which it could be interpreted actually undermine one another, and the fact that you said you meant both actually justifies the measured defensiveness you received. If you're saying that women wish more men liked things they liked, that's fine. But if you're also saying that women would never make a thread like this, then you're undermining the previous statement. AND you're suggesting this isn't a topic worth discussing (rather than answering the question or ignoring it because you think it's pointless), which is trolling, or at least suggestive thereof. I appreciate that you appreciated my approach, but ultimately OP and I seem to be more on the same page, especially given the name-calling.

OP didn't ask a close-minded question. In fact, he backed up the reason for his observation with personal experience, having actually seen the buyer demographic at his store. He noted a phenomenon and asked why people thought it existed. There's nothing close-minded about the question at all, but the fact that you responded in an aggressive manner and have quickly escalated seems to justify his caution about interpreting your first reply.

Let's not start arguing here. It's petty.

#26 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Captain_Yesterday said:

@akbogert: The comment could be applied either way and I meant it both ways.

Either way it was still related to the topic and hand and showed no signs of trolling or anything like that, it wasn't that hard to figure out.

If there was question to it's actual meaning then why not ask how you did? Instead of with an aggressive undertone simply because they did not understand it.

@Nelomaxwell: No you asked a question like a closed minded hard ass and I responded to it trying to lighten you up.

If there was a question to what I meant by my the statement you simply could of asked in a civil way.

I guess my subtly was lost on you, next time I'll be more direct.

I'm sorry I'm used to people being more direct and not skirting. I kinda like to catch bull$hit before it starts, makes things easier. But thanks for the info. For my own edification how was I being closed minded? 
#27 Posted by SC (13266 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish more people read comics. Even males are leaving in droves. Though in a way this is potentially a positive. Maybe comics needs to die before it is reborn stronger. Right now Marvel and DC are being directed by dinosaurs. Thats not so much an insult as much as just the reality of society and people and how they move and progress and understand things from objective angles. When the comic industry struggles, they don't try to identify why, they just resort to traditional methods of keeping it afloat. They look at their competition within in comics and try to undermine them or "beat" them. Maybe they need a really big wake up call, maybe the fans do too, I see so many fans defending comics just because they personally like them, blind to the fact that its not about them. Personal appreciation and fandom are different things from business. Ironically they often try to use the excuse that comics is a business to justify their personal preferences, its hilarious.

Anyway - comics is thriving, just the not in a way people are making lots of money off or from. So its sort of going underground, its why so many people fan fict and RPG and why places like Deviant Art are booming and why more people have their own websites with their own web art and webcomics is exploding and why a few non Marvel or DC books enter the top 300 sales each month.

Every generation has the potential to surpass the awareness and empathy and intelligence of the former. Traditionally minorities had a head start over writing other minorities well - society is splintering off a lot younger and a lot more so now we are getting even more types of minorities as well as giving traditional minorities more representation, opportunity and power. I love comics too, I actually don't want it to hit rock bottom first - it would be great if it just started to embrace its best qualities a bit more and stopped living in a bubble world with apologetic fans and yes men.

Moderator Online
#28 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Ok I misunderstood what you meant. I simply meant women probably say the same things about men and their things and although some women may get into comics they will never be as mainstream to women. Men and women are different in some ways in their likes and dislikes and that's not gonna just change.

I wasn't arguing but why are you calling not too right after making a long post.. where you're arguing? Either way, calling people jerks is not the way to open up conversation That's where the aggression started, not on my end. In fact my first response was simply to chill out all while answering his question by clarifying my response.

And show me where I did any name calling. I didn't. I could have leaved the 'threatened' thing along, but I found it interesting he used that word after he was the one who started off aggressive. As if he thought he was bullying me or something and I was getting scared. When merely I was trying to chill him out and tell him with I meant, because he asked me the question.

Jeez sorry I said anything.

#29 Posted by akbogert (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday: Generally I consider saying someone behaved "like a close-minded hard[@$$]" to constitute name-calling, but perhaps that's just me. Chill out was followed by the close-minded thing, hence my own reaction. And while I can see why you thought you were being called a jerk, he was really just asking whether or not you were being a jerk -- and i think we all now understand why he might have thought you were just trolling him. I can also see where you see what I'm doing as arguing but I'm more just stepping into what looked like a potential argument between you two -- I technically wasn't even involved.

But it seems you two have reconciled and I hardly needed to say anything in the first place.

More directly, I take issue with your statement that comics "will never be as mainstream to women." In fact, I think that mindset is the very root problem, and so long as it is held by people it will result in self-fulfilling prophecy. If people continue to believe that comics can't appeal equally to women, then comics never will. Start believing that it's just another artistic medium, and that people are equal and respond to all forms of art equally, and the path towards making comics reflect that reality will become clearer.

#30 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish more females would read comics.

I blame the industry for failing to market their product appropriately.

#31 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Yes it didn't involve you but you stepped in, why? As you said, it was over until you felt entitled enough to stir things up instead of just commenting on the topic. What was that about trolling again?

You must not have read things whole thing. I said chill out in my second statement in response to being called, or implied, a jerk.

In, fact the close-minded part came in AFTER you chimed in, after it was over and done with or the both of us. And I'll admit it was a poor choice of words. I simply meant he was coming off as close minded by automatically regarding me as a troll instead of looking at my statement objectively.

Either way it's done with and didn't involve you so can you just stop talking so we can stop derailing this thread even more because I do think it's an interesting topic.

#32 Posted by Joygirl (20075 posts) - - Show Bio

If I was black I would totally have cool dreadlocks.

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#33 Posted by akbogert (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday: As I said, and as you just repeated, you called OP close-minded after having said you weren't trying to be aggressive and to calm down. You said "chill out" and then personally escalated the situation. If it had truly been "over" you would not have needed to proceed with calling him close-minded. I appreciate you informing me that I "can just stop talking," but I've never really needed your permission to stop talking or to continue doing so. I do admit to having participated in the derailing, but as you might notice I spent half my last post actually on topic, discussing a mindset I consider harmful to the industry and relevant to the question of why fewer females read.

@lykopis said:

I wish more females would read comics.

I blame the industry for failing to market their product appropriately.

Do you think the product is inherently appealing to the majority of females? It seems to me that the marketing is only part of the issue.

#34 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: No I didn't my first response was Chill out. Then you poked you head in for no reason and it got me going yadda yadda I'm not going over this again with you. It's. is. over. I never said you needed my permission to stop talking, just that you're the one who continues to derail the thread regardless of what little input you add to the subject after the fact.

It

Is

Over

Move on.

Have a nice day.

#35 Posted by Pyrogram (41151 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

It's a shame mini marts and quick stops don't sell comics anymore.

^^ that, If they did I am sure more females would buy them just beacuse they are so much easier to have access to.

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#36 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@lykopis said:

I wish more females would read comics.

I blame the industry for failing to market their product appropriately.

That's true too.@Joygirl said:

If I was black I would totally have cool dreadlocks.

I already do. They allowed me to save the world one time.
#37 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pyrogram said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

It's a shame mini marts and quick stops don't sell comics anymore.

^^ that, If they did I am sure more females would buy them just beacuse they are so much easier to have access to.

I agree. I also think and have seen from experience that graphic novels and trades in book store chains are better received by a wider audience.
#38 Posted by Pyrogram (41151 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

It's a shame mini marts and quick stops don't sell comics anymore.

^^ that, If they did I am sure more females would buy them just beacuse they are so much easier to have access to.

I agree. I also think and have seen from experience that graphic novels and trades in book store chains are better received by a wider audience.

Yup.

Online
#39 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl said:

If I was black I would totally have cool dreadlocks.

Also you maybe looking for my other thread.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic/5/black-people-thread/748292/#300
#40 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34023 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: More pepole need to read good comics instead of reading DC/Marvel comics just because there DC/Marvel comics. If pepole want awesome female characters then come to Valiant and read about Kris, Charlene and best of all Faith:

#41 Edited by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Looks lame to me ^-^

#42 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34023 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fuchsia_Nightingale: well it's really not since every issue from all the major comics sites has been reviewed at 4/5 or above. Guaranteed that Faith >> your favourite female character.

#43 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Sure sure.

#44 Posted by SpidermanWins (3982 posts) - - Show Bio

If only....

#45 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34023 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fuchsia_Nightingale said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Sure sure.

check the reviews if you like.

#46 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fuchsia_Nightingale said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Sure sure.

He's right Fush. Valiant is actually really good, Trust me I'm a Black Guy.
#47 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: I will, but I'm sorry, a flying fat lady doesn't seem like win for Woman everywhere .

#48 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34023 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fuchsia_Nightingale: right so you judge characters on there look/power set then?

#49 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Yep ^_^

#50 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nelomaxwell said:

@Fuchsia_Nightingale said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Sure sure.

He's right Fush. Valiant is actually really good, Trust me I'm a Black Guy.

I'll try.