#1 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

Scientific development is reaching the point where Human Resurrection may quite possibly be a thing in our lifetime. Now we may not be in our old bodies, but the information from our brains can be passed along into robotic bodies or even into simulations. Many would argue that it takes away what it means to be human, and therefore attempt to protest against this field of science. What side of the argument are you on? Why?

#2 Edited by zbrush (14 posts) - - Show Bio

haha it can't be stopped! its called evolution. you can't protest against it to any degree of success. Think about it this way. If you can resurect someone were they dead in the first place? Death is a medical term doctors use meaning they can legally stop trying to revive you. 100 years ago people that drowned in water where pronounced dead. Now we have CPR and they can be "revived" after as much as 20min to my best guess. By all definition that is ressurection. So its already happening. Humans will eventually have similar powers as Wolverine

The concept of death is constantly moving back and being updated as new ways of reviving humans are being discovered. Eventually you will probably have a whole human body 2.0 that you can make backup copies of.

#3 Posted by nishi99 (385 posts) - - Show Bio

The good things science does will always out way the bad. And the way i see it Biotechnology Artificial intelligence and Nanotechnology could make this world a better place for us and the kids of the future.

#4 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@zbrush: Well said. Scientific advancement is another step in our evolution. I find it uncanny how the concept of death is being redefined as we speak. Couldn't agree with you more, it can't be stopped and those who opt out of it will remain in dark times.

@nishi99: Absolutely, the world would certainly be a less harsher environment to live in.

Science > Letting the universe have at you.

#5 Posted by CrimsonCake (2677 posts) - - Show Bio

Uh oh...Transhumanism.

The Singularity is near!

#6 Posted by CrimsonCake (2677 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as it gives us superpowers I'm fine.

#7 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonCake: Haha, I think it's safe to say we are getting close to achieving things resembling superpowers, maybe a decade or two, three tops. And if we are able to reach that particular milestone then perhaps you will be able to hold out until the real deal comes along :)

#8 Posted by Ms. Omega (4470 posts) - - Show Bio

Sweet I can finally nano tech body suit that gives me powers!

#9 Posted by JediXMan (30647 posts) - - Show Bio

.... I'd rather longevity and a purging of disease rather than living in... well the Matrix.

Moderator
#10 Posted by nishi99 (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170: Its sad that a lot of people don't see it that way. Like with self driver less cars which would end drink driving.

However in the end i think it will happen because no one can stop the future and it won't matter what those dumbass people think.

#11 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: When you look at the route of implanting your brain data into a robot that can look almost exactly like you (Depending on how much you would like to pay) it closely resembles longevity. It's nearly the same but possibly without the ability to experience the feelings of 'touch' in the beginning stages. Or even the run of the mill needs for an average human today. So far It appears that this way will beat out the simulation route.

@nishi99: Very true, I can't help but imagine some strong resistance. There will probably be two types of people, those who upgrade and those who don't. It's gonna be the greatest divide since blacks and whites. However, I think evolution will prevail once again.

#12 Posted by JediXMan (30647 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170:

Still. I don't like the idea of not living in my own born flesh.

Moderator
#13 Edited by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

Immortality is a terrible idea, if they "cured" death within a decade the whole world would suck. Death is a part of life if humans weren't predominantly cowards at this point they would understand that death has a valid and necessary purpose. So when its your time if you have the option its better to go out with some dignity than to have your brain dropped in a new body just cause you're scared.

#14 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Sure, some people may be scared but that's not the only reason one would embrace Resurrection/Tranhumanism. Many people want to experience the future, see the biggest questions of life get answered, stop losing loved ones, provide wisdom to forthcoming generations, and so on. Death is most certainly a part of life, though it is not a necessary part of it. We have the potential to rise above it and conquer it entirely. Death is but another thing that is not fine tuned about our universe, and we have the means to give it a middle finger. The only purpose death has is to provide more room on earth (Which will one day not be the only habitable place in our solar system) and keep consumption of resources at a minimum (Which we will not need post Resurrection/Transhumanism). There is no grand journey other than this one and once we enter the realm of transhumanism, those exact concerns of yesterday will be no more. For those who choose. The idea of death being necessary is poetic, but that is all.

#15 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170: The future isn't for us, its for the next generation. Taking up space that belongs to them just to see beyond your allotted years is selfish

#16 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay say we conquer death completely and you live long enough to do everything you could ever possibly do, then what? You just sit around bored until the universe dies that's what.

#17 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

Only fools would want a finite life

#18 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I absolutely see where you are coming from and I respect that, but who better to define this happy accident known as life better than those who reside in it itself? By the time we achieve this goal there will be more than enough room, there's already talk of sending people to other planets permanently. Just imagine somewhere 30 years down the road. There may also be much more efficient forms of resource recycling. Though if this wasn't the case I would agree with you whole heartedly, it would be selfish. However, my faith is in scientific advancement as my nihilistic nature would have it. To me, to accept death is to accept insignificance.

@joshmightbe said:

Okay say we conquer death completely and you live long enough to do everything you could ever possibly do, then what? You just sit around bored until the universe dies that's what.

Who's to say there's a limit to what we could possibly do? Conquering death would be only the beginning. We figure out the universe inside and out and perhaps one day leave it behind as well. The big bang is but one of many scientific theories of the universe today. Many scientists believe our universe is not the only one. Once again, we get it together and find a way to conquer these barriers as well. Perhaps one day we will actually hit a stumper but we would never run out of things to do up until the time the universe had died.

@Rumble Man said:

Only fools would want a finite life

How so?

#19 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: only cowards and selfish pricks want to live forever

#20 Edited by gfzb (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Okay say we conquer death completely and you live long enough to do everything you could ever possibly do, then what? You just sit around bored until the universe dies that's what.

Immortality is not an IDEA its just going to happen at one point. unless we destroy ourselves first! I am sure eventually people are going to start wars because they think immortality is bad. they will blow up medical facilities ETC. that's just sad

So why don't you just kill yourself now? not being a dick but trying to make a point. Nobody is working to give people immortality. Its just going to happen as technology advances. if you have cancer you won't take a cure for it? old age does not kill you. your immune system is weak in old age but something else actually kills you.

what are allotted years? Life expectancy was like 30 years old at one point. Does that mean you are living beyond your allotted years? think about it.

Also the "NEXT" generation is simply going to become immortal while you sacrificed your life for them LOL. By rejecting a life saving medication at 80 years old because you think you used your allotted years

#21 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@gfzb said:

what are allotted years? Life expectancy was like 30 years old at one point. Does that mean you are living beyond your allotted years? think about it.

Great example. Technology has already influenced our life spans drastically and continues to do so. The line between life and death could soon be a blur.

#22 Posted by gfzb (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Rumble Man: only cowards and selfish pricks want to live forever

What about people that want to live as long as life has something to offer them?

#23 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170: Whenever this argument pops out they only list the bad things about living forever, because they can only describe life from a finite perspective. They have never hopped to the other side so they are afraid of infinity.

@joshmightbe said:

@Rumble Man: only cowards and selfish pricks want to live forever

If you are so unhappy with life you can always jump off a bridge or swallow a bullet

#24 Posted by Onemoreposter (4054 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh. You are who/what you are.

#25 Posted by samuel_larson_10 (283 posts) - - Show Bio

death makes us human, besides, wouldn't you get "tired" of living?

#26 Posted by Mizz_Coconut (146 posts) - - Show Bio

it's a weird sort of idea. If someone was desperate enough yeah sure surrogates are totally possibly. People who are disabled may love this idea, as they could live the life they want to live, that is if they're not content with theres.

However if we're talking robotics it's a strange one, a robot is a metallic suit, it's not a human body, but if the brain was implanted then it would make it more human personality wise. However i think a part of life is getting some grazed knees along the way, some 'battle scars' you'd feel impenetrable, cold almost in a robot.

Personally even if they were to have surragotes, it's still not quite the same as the meat you were born in, sure vanity would take over but then we'd just be living in a vain society where everyone looked perfect. I guess that's not the worst thing, but beauty doesnt cover stupidity and ignorance for long.

As for immortality, i think it's naive to think we'll live forever and ever, not even the sun is going to live forever and ever it'll go black hole or supernova at some point, everything has a span. And if we all had immortality we'd have the, sorry to say idiots and drug addicts and people draining off society. The Earth itself can only hold so many people and we're already over capacity, we'd end up using all the resources and destorying some naturally beautiful areas to make way for more humans, who probably wouldnt contribute anything to society as it is.

There will always be a percentage of people dying from disease, accidents, murder etc, but why should someone who's lived a great life get to live longer, dont you want to bow out?

I mean look at gollum, dorian grey, vampires, death becomes her, groundhog day, were they happy?

If something comes along of course people are going to take it, but immortalities a strong word. The way society is going it seems the difference between clever and stupid is growing, even if you do live long enough no one is going to be eternally happy, theres always going to be some annoying Paris Hilton or reality tv show to irritate you, people who want something amazing will find it, the rest of us will rot

#27 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170: I'm on the "I DON'T WANT TO DIE, LET'S WORK ON THAT LIVING FOREVER THING" side.

F**k every other side.

#28 Posted by AmazingFantasy15 (259 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing is though the choice isn't live forever or live a normal life span, if we had the ability to live forever we could just live as long as we wanted, though if immortality was possible there probably be a legal age limit to avoid over crowding and government positions would all need a limit for how long you could do it, even jobs like chief of police (businesses would probably do the same) so the world could progress at every level so the same people aren't in charge forever.

#29 Posted by zbrush (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@samuel_larson_10 said:

death makes us human, besides, wouldn't you get "tired" of living?

I would rather have the choice to die rather than suffer for years with cancer or whatever is going to kill me before I die. Also who says we are going to stay human. We all evolved from something else

#31 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonCake: Don't have to go that far, some types of lobsters live forever until they are killed

#32 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: Why is it that people always assume because I don't feel the need to keep living beyond my usefulness mean I hate life? I'm in no rush to die just saying when its my time I'm fine with going because I realize that when my body wears out its my time to go, I can accept that because it is the natural order. Every attempt mankind has ever made to subvert the natural order has turned out bad. Its the reason we have global warming and a dwindling supplies of important natural resources.

#33 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@Bluefox170: Whenever this argument pops out they only list the bad things about living forever, because they can only describe life from a finite perspective. They have never hopped to the other side so they are afraid of infinity.

Ah ok I get you, I was half way asleep last night when I read your post and read finite as infinite :)

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Bluefox170: I'm on the "I DON'T WANT TO DIE, LET'S WORK ON THAT LIVING FOREVER THING" side.

F**k every other side.

Lmao, I like the honesty. Our predatory instinct for survival allows this to be a perfectly valid answer.

@samuel_larson_10 said:

death makes us human, besides, wouldn't you get "tired" of living?

There are many things that make us human, as gfzb said above, Many years ago living to age 30 is what made us human. Nowadays living to age 100 can be considered human. decades from now when we have the ability to have infinite life, nothing will change about our human stature. We simply redefine death as we always have and will continue to do. Plus, if you get tired of living is up to you, "Life is what you make it" But I assume if you want to die, they won't force you to stick around if you don't want to.

#34 Posted by CrimsonCake (2677 posts) - - Show Bio

We could have a real-life Vandal savage :D

#35 Edited by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mizz_Coconut said:

it's a weird sort of idea. If someone was desperate enough yeah sure surrogates are totally possibly. People who are disabled may love this idea, as they could live the life they want to live, that is if they're not content with theres.

However if we're talking robotics it's a strange one, a robot is a metallic suit, it's not a human body, but if the brain was implanted then it would make it more human personality wise. However i think a part of life is getting some grazed knees along the way, some 'battle scars' you'd feel impenetrable, cold almost in a robot.

Personally even if they were to have surragotes, it's still not quite the same as the meat you were born in, sure vanity would take over but then we'd just be living in a vain society where everyone looked perfect. I guess that's not the worst thing, but beauty doesnt cover stupidity and ignorance for long.

As for immortality, i think it's naive to think we'll live forever and ever, not even the sun is going to live forever and ever it'll go black hole or supernova at some point, everything has a span. And if we all had immortality we'd have the, sorry to say idiots and drug addicts and people draining off society. The Earth itself can only hold so many people and we're already over capacity, we'd end up using all the resources and destorying some naturally beautiful areas to make way for more humans, who probably wouldnt contribute anything to society as it is.

There will always be a percentage of people dying from disease, accidents, murder etc, but why should someone who's lived a great life get to live longer, dont you want to bow out?

I mean look at gollum, dorian grey, vampires, death becomes her, groundhog day, were they happy?

If something comes along of course people are going to take it, but immortalities a strong word. The way society is going it seems the difference between clever and stupid is growing, even if you do live long enough no one is going to be eternally happy, theres always going to be some annoying Paris Hilton or reality tv show to irritate you, people who want something amazing will find it, the rest of us will rot

I agree, everything has a span. Currently. I also agree that we are already reaching over capacity, though as I mentioned earlier, there will be more areas of science developing than just this one. Perhaps we find a much more solid way of recycling the earths resources (Which we wouldnt need much post tranhumanism), and there is also already talk of billionaires sending people to other planets permanently creating more room. Even birth control could be much more effective if it isn't already made law to have restrictions. I believe those who wish to bow out can bow out on a good note. Those who wish to stick around to witness discovery and never lose their loved ones can go the other route. Though as you say everything has a span even the universe, one day perhaps that will just be another obstacle to conquer or leave behind. Shed like a snake sheds its skin. We'll only know when we come to that bridge.

#36 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Death is a nessecary part of life. If we cheat it, we cheat nature itself.

#37 Posted by gfzb (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Rumble Man: Why is it that people always assume because I don't feel the need to keep living beyond my usefulness mean I hate life? I'm in no rush to die just saying when its my time I'm fine with going because I realize that when my body wears out its my time to go, I can accept that because it is the natural order. Every attempt mankind has ever made to subvert the natural order has turned out bad. Its the reason we have global warming and a dwindling supplies of important natural resources.

because "beyond my usefulness" is a relative term. How are you going to establish whether you are useful or not? at what date will you be useless? What Date is your time up? Unless your the type of person who refuses to take vitamins, do exercise to stay fit, go to the doctor when your sick and rejects all forms of medicine and treatment forever etc etc. Your usefulness is going to keep being pushed further and further back until one day you wake up and your immortal.

It does not mean you hate life no. I am make the point that health is the MOST IMPORTANT THING in the world. its the most valuable thing in the world. and as long as you have it. you are going to keep on happily living.

Also there is a whole universe out there. I mean a car sized probe just landed on mars. we are headed for colonization and space mining of asteroids and future with abundant renewable energy.

Humans and post humans will find a way.

#38 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superguy0009e said:

Death is a nessecary part of life. If we cheat it, we cheat nature itself.

Fair opinion, and too the point. I like that. But what does it mean exactly to cheat nature? Nature is a cycle that we have continuously and continue to expand and reshape to our needs. Not to call you out or anything, I just enjoy hearing everyones opinions on the subject :)

#39 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@gfzb: when the body I was born in dies that's when I cease to be useful.

#40 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

  • Why is it that people always assume because I don't feel the need to keep living beyond my usefulness mean I hate life? (You do not simply decide when to become obsolete, others do that for you)
  • I'm in no rush to die just saying when its my time I'm fine with going because I realize that when my body wears out its my time to go, I can accept that because it is the natural order. (FYI getting old is a genetic defect)
  • Every attempt mankind has ever made to subvert the natural order has turned out bad. (tell that to the cavemen who invented weapons to fend off predators, we became the dominant species that we are today because we fight against natural order. So far we are winning)
  • Its the reason we have global warming and a dwindling supplies of important natural resources. (Its also the reason we have electricity, internet and homes)
#41 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superguy0009e said:

Death is a nessecary part of life. If we cheat it, we cheat nature itself.

Why'd we invent medicines, homes and weapons then since naturally we would be killed by disease and also natural predators. We have been doing 'exactly' that for many centuries, and we seem to be doing a good job at it.

#42 Posted by Bluefox170 (382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@joshmightbe:

  • Why is it that people always assume because I don't feel the need to keep living beyond my usefulness mean I hate life? (You do not simply decide when to become obsolete, others do that for you)
  • I'm in no rush to die just saying when its my time I'm fine with going because I realize that when my body wears out its my time to go, I can accept that because it is the natural order. (FYI getting old is a genetic defect)
  • Every attempt mankind has ever made to subvert the natural order has turned out bad. (tell that to the cavemen who invented weapons to fend off predators, we became the dominant species that we are today because we fight against natural order. So far we are winning)
  • Its the reason we have global warming and a dwindling supplies of important natural resources. (Its also the reason we have electricity, internet and homes)

Bravo, good sir.

#43 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170 said:

@Rumble Man said:

@joshmightbe:

  • Why is it that people always assume because I don't feel the need to keep living beyond my usefulness mean I hate life? (You do not simply decide when to become obsolete, others do that for you)
  • I'm in no rush to die just saying when its my time I'm fine with going because I realize that when my body wears out its my time to go, I can accept that because it is the natural order. (FYI getting old is a genetic defect)
  • Every attempt mankind has ever made to subvert the natural order has turned out bad. (tell that to the cavemen who invented weapons to fend off predators, we became the dominant species that we are today because we fight against natural order. So far we are winning)
  • Its the reason we have global warming and a dwindling supplies of important natural resources. (Its also the reason we have electricity, internet and homes)

Bravo, good sir.

#44 Posted by TheBigRedCheese (372 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure a lot politicians and dictators would love this technology.

#45 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bluefox170:

How do we know for sure that we have souls, the thing we know for sure is that we experience life through our identity and our consciousness bound in time/space. Afterlife is a belief but there is the notion that exists when we die we simply cease to exist, all our moments in creation vanish like candle fire. I live as a religious person who has no fear of death, however it would be nice experiencing life through a different perspective. We are human, our life is short because of that we are scared that we might disappear, because of that we created love to protect each other, and because of that we are tied together as social creatures.

We have always tricked nature one way or another, and we are winning.