How strong are the shinobi? (Naruto informative)

Status:

a) Haven't even started yet, get out and find something else to do! Or something nicer to that effect.

b) just started, but you can read a bit to see what it's about.

c) Finished the basics, adding extras

d) Finished the first draft, may add extra/wanted scans and deal with issues over time.

Finding the posts/areas you're looking for:

Post 1/OP: Dealing with purpose of the thread. That's what you're reading right now. (Also talking about power levels currently)

Post 2: mainly destructive capacity of the major characters. Dealing with the "planetary or not planetary?" question as well.

Hello everyone!

For those of who don't know, the main plotline of naruto manga ended with chapter 700. That's why the number of naruto threads has suddenly increased. And with it, a lot of clashes are taking place about how strong they are. This has caused many threads with potential for solid debating being used to simply express whether these characters are (translated in civil language) overestimated or underestimated. A common problem I observed is, a lot of users on both sides are only familiar with them from battles board, or some picked up from an arc they found interesting, so they missed out on many important details which were stated or shown before.

This thread is an attempt to gather as much on-panel evidence we have - It was originally only meant to establish their strength, but I thought it should also be used in order to deal with other frequent issues concerning characters of this series, or if someone asks something to be cleared up. It is possible that the final canon movie (The Last: Naruto the Movie) may show their power levels differently: they could be less than peak humans to blowing up galaxies. This thread only deals with what was shown in the manga. This is also the

Sources that will be used:

• Manga: I'll try to use the official translations whenever possible, and replace those which are not viz as I find time.
• Anime: Just to demonstrate what's happening, or how it will look. Or sometime, to cross-check for translations.
• Databooks: I know the databooks are really infamous about their mistakes, but 10-15 mistakes in 200+ pages does not make it completely irrelevant since more than half of the info we have comes from them. Basically, I'll use them to cement facts that coincide with what is shown/stated on-screen, and does not contradict anything canon.

Important: These posts are there in order to help you form your opinion on how strong they are, whether you're familiar with them beforehand or not. The one thing I'm asking you to is to put aside your earlier impression and go through the material posted: So that you don't twist the evidence to fit opinion, but form opinion based on what is shown.

Note: This is where the OP theoretically ends. The second post will be adaptation of whatever is written down below in a more organised manner, and it will, as it seems now, take months..

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How strong are the major characters?

Covering the non myth-level characters here

To get started, naruto, like (almost) all shonen manga, has a trend of rising in power as the main character advances through different arcs. Stronger and stronger enemies keep appearing.

First, when naruto was introduced, it was a series about characters that were seemingly human, but with high speed and capable of doing some random ninja magic. At the time, it was weakest of three major manga however, things changed as the manga progressed. Here's how:

At first, the only hope that they will get stronger was what was said on the first page of the manga:

"Demon fox capable of crumbling mountains with it's tails!"

At that time, the statement seemed like hyperbole, and it didn't seem possible that the characters who were seemingly just above street level could ever achieve destruction of a mountain. But later, we began to see more and more of these:

The last line: It can, "Easily" carve away a mountain.

The fun part about this is these two collaborate exactly, as naruto uses oodama rasengan on kyubi in their fight, and kyubi uses it's tails to stop it:

Time to see some actual mountain leveling?

Naruto's incomplete rasenshuriken:

The important part here is not to mistake the size. Do note the bridge in front of naruto, which shows the distance he is from the attack. Also, even if you say they are small, rasenshuriken destroys the target at extremely fine level: A living object caught in the blast will have it's individual cell attacked multiple times:

Even the very largest cell is about 0.1 mm in size, they can be thousands of times smaller than that.. To put it in perspective, it's one tenth of the smallest distance you have on your scale. Basically, caught in rasenshuriken explosion, you'll have 2-3 small blades passing through you in that small distance. Ouch.

This is how large a regular frs is after completing the technique:

The circle against which it is exploding is this one:

Nagato's chibaku tensei: the first time we see this plot-technique.

These aren't advanced variants of rasenshuriken though, he can put a lot more power in it..

If you're bored of explosionzzz, they can fry that area too: no, literally:

To see how large gamabunta is,

Not enough? Let's take it a step higher.

Gaara: Sand control: In gaara's fight against deidara, he was controlling enough sand to dwarf the capital itself:

chapter 248

Deidara: See? Birds are art.

Gaara: lol. k.

Deidara: C3: speciality 18 capable of blowing up the town:

Also shows how strong gaara's sand control is.. it contained the explosion without a problem:

Next is KN6 (six tailed form naruto's) incomplete bijuu bomb:

Remember the size of the bomb in question (It's in front of naruto's face, about equally big) at this point.

Why is it a big deal compared to what seen earlier? Because it's a lot bigger than it looks: Don't worry, I'm not going to use calcs.. only the official sources

The crater besides it is the konoha crater.

If you're wondering why a 'village' is so large, they only have one major village per country. That's why..

Just to add some perspective.. Tsar bomba, the strongest known nuke, is not capable of shattering a large mountain - it's explosion radius is about 2.5 km. Albeit it's destruction will be more spread about and versatile.

which brings us to: Deidara: c0 :

An explosion covering 10 km radius.

do check the size of hills and the city compared to the explosion..

Which is followed by pain's infamous one-hit-kill on konoha:

Considering the size of konoha shown above.. that's.. quite some power.

Other characters reach this level, or surpass it as well.

For example, ohnoki had to be restricted from using his jinton so he doesn't blow up the turtle island:

On the other hand, the blast of guy's hirudora was easily dwarfing turtle island:

note the turtle island in background.. and even the stones that don't actually touch the explosion shatter in the second scan.

If you are rather tired of old scans by now, here are some familiar ones:

Remember how large an explosion KN6 bijuu bomb made before? In the scan above? That was about half a feet ball of chakra and incomplete.. now these are full fledged tailed beast bombs:

...And the round 2:

Now compare the size of mountains to the blast ;)

Pay close attention to the geography shown below.. and see what you can find.

Notably, this is only half of kyubi - the other half is sealed at this point..

Speaking of a full kyubi, madara and hashirama were fighting through kyubi's bijuu bomb barrage:

Madara and hashirama really deserve a special mention either way.

Madara: Perfect susanoo:

...Things get fun when you realize that's not an average mountain.

Do note that even a meteor of around 10 km in size is capable of nearly life wiping earth..

Hashirama.. is the guy who beat madara every single time they fought in their life, they literally had to stay away from ground and on the sea, to keep the damage to surrounding minimal...

Now this is where the juubi arc begins: I'd say the anime of this is more enjoyable than the manga:

this is what they're blocking here:

So for those who say naruto is just mountain level.. they need to catch up: A lot. This is just a start of the main arc.

shouldn't this mean EOS naruto-sasuke should be casually shattering mountains? Yep..

But more on them later.

This should cover how powerful characters at kage/akatsuki level are.. in power. This doesn't even bother about the hax, specifically because of the impression that naruto characters are all about hax - As you see that is really not true (if you have not left the thread already)

I'll admit to have skipped a good amount of techniques here, but this was meant to establish a basic scaling line.

Which brings us to the other question

Planet level, or not?

All of the above begs the question. Yes, naruto characters seem strong and all (they do, admit it! :p), but a planet is so much larger! Based on what we have seen, planetary feats should be outlying at best, if even present. You'll be surprised because I'm not going against that at all. In fact, a good amount of you may remember how many times I have gone against this idea myself in earlier threads - and may wonder what changed my mind. Here I am listing some of the reasons..

The planetary characters are actually outlying, not because it's a one-time feat or anything, but they were meant to be outlying for the verse:

That line up consists of juubi - the creator God of naruto world and it's jinchurikis (madara and obito on-panel), plus sage of six paths, the one who distributed chakra to every character in the series, and his mother: kaguya.

First hint that these characters may become country-planet level was given in invasion of pein arc:

Putting together the nine tailed beasts, a jutsu capable of instantly destroying a country will be created, and used. The world will know pain, and peace will be created - if it starts making trouble, another country it is.

Chapter 436:

Note that by 'land' pain is talking about countries such as land of fire, land of earth etc. as shown below:

To further clarify about this issue (whether 'land' here refers to country or something else)

the original raw scan, as well as japanese anime both directly mention country:

一国 or 

Ikkoku means 'whole country'

The english translated or dubbed anime also says 'nation'.

Either way, this is not the only time collection of tailed beasts is said to create countries either:

Look at the bijuu bomb explosions in the background: something similar to this:

I could spam several different calcs here, apparently "proving" how it is country level, but as said earlier, I won't. Size scaling at these scales is inaccurate at best. The two statements are enough to suggest the potency of attacks. Again, calcs are not needed for a well written manga ;)

Then, the fight against jinchuriki madara brought up some interesting points:

madara, using chibaku tensei, gathered mountains from different countries, and let the resultant drop on ground.. considering the previous comment on impact on earth, this is leagues beyond that.

Note that the large panel shows a part of map of naruto world, and you can actually see the base of God tree. We haven't covered that yet, but it's proportions are titanic.

If you still can't get the idea, most scalings put it spanning hundreds of kilometers. Honestly, covering it in this post will not be possible, maybe I will have a post on it some day.. Anyway.

Naruto, when amped by so6p, is capable of a rasenshuriken (noting how concentrated the destructive power is), big enough to cut the God tree in half:

they both casually shatter the meteors falling on them:

Note that the rubble falling down still dwarfing entire mountain ranges..

Now, at their fight in the valley of the end, naruto and sasuke cause shockwaves across the continent: Naruto and sasuke are fighting in the valley of the end in land of fire, kakashi is back at the original battlefield:

An argument I keep hearing about this is: "They fought in the valley, and yet the valley wasn't destroyed".

Incorrect: After a few quick exchanges (And after they were too exhausted to maintain flight anymore), they fought above the valley, in the atmosphere:

This is where we start the planet level journey. Juubi is the one who created all that exists in the world:

An incomplete juubi is already comparable to a smaller planet on a sensing sphere:

(middle left panel)

Also: Juubi's revival signifies the end of the world as per sage of six paths:

well, coming from someone who used his sword to recreate the world, that holds some credit:

Though the exact circumstances of why he had to recreate the planet are unknown, it's presumable because of the earlier battle with kaguya. Or possibly he meant reshaped it.

To sum up in tobi's words, juubi is the beginning and end of the world:

Now... "if he's a planet buster, why didn't he blow up the planet!?" "plot!!' "Excuses!" "he wanted to rule it, not blow it up!!" etc etc. the obvious arguments.

But the only way to know for sure is, if they were planet level, but didn't want to destroy the planet, shouldn't they do something on planet level? Yes, and they did:

Telepathy:

The weakest argument I've heard against the manga to date is infinite tsukuyomi is not planet level tp. That's outright false:

Moon is literally chunks of rock ripped out of earth. It does not give any telepathic boost to the user at all, it's just the way how the technique is used - the telepathic power behind it is caster's own.

Just to be clear, it is not low level tp or mind control for every individual in it. It is extremely advanced to: A 'normal' tsukuyomi allows the user to control all of time, space, matter in the genjutsu world:

meaning, the days kakashi spent stuck in genjutsu were just an instant in the real world.

I will add more about infinite tsukuyomi later.

Other is madara's shin: jukai koutan:

Do note the statement in konoha/minato scan as well, if you didn't have enough proof:

"Holy tree spreads over the world!!"

Now.. we go back to sage of six paths.

Even a researcher such as jiraya did not expect powers like that to exist.

We later find out more about him: Notably, the tablet was altered by black zetsu, but most of the stuff coincides with the facts established later:

first scan: everyone expects that he's just a fairy tale.. second, he saved the world from juubi.

he was the original user of izanami, and used it to control all creation:

Now, did he actually do anything that can be measured? Yep.

When he was about to die, he removed the juubi from himself, and sealed it in a chibaku tensei - the technique used by nagato on naruto. The seal is the moon:

What is notable about this is, he did it after taking out the tailed beasts from himself. Taking out a tailed beast from someone, even someone as powerful as naruto, weakens them to the point of death:

that's naruto after kyubi was taken out. Sage took out juubi when already dying, and.. created a moon.

An argument I've heard against it is, nagato used the chibaku tensei, and it wasn't that big at all. True... but nagato himself admitted that his chibaku tensei was nothing compared to what the sage was said to have made:

Nagato was basically a trial version of sage.. Nothing compared to the full version, if it is not obvious already.

To cement the feat, naruto and sasuke, when amped by sage of six paths chakra, replicated the exact same feat later, it is also notably different from nagato's simple chibaku tensei:

what's worth noting here that, this scan is used to say that the chibaku tensei is smaller than what's said:

So what happened? Did chibaku tensei get smaller? is it not as big as the moon? No: The answer is simple: It moved farther away from the planet, making it look smaller. You can actually see it's size compared to the planet here:

At that kind of distance, it's obviously going to look smaller.

That's already enough, but apparently kishi likes overkill: It was also stated by kakashi that it was as big as the moon..

So if a dying sage of six paths, or indra/ashura naruto/sasuke want to take out the planet, they should be able to do it simply by colliding the moon with it - even if we restrict the idea that they could simply put that chakra in a bijuu bomb, and a bijuu bomb like that would be.. catastrophic.

And at last: Kaguya:

Kaguya is in complete control of her dimension, as we saw, the dimensions contain at least one planet. She is capable of creating new dimensions mid-battle - and how does she do that? By literally erasing everything with her huge gudo dama:

The most efficient way to take out a planet: -erase- it with a gigantic eraser. At subatomic level. Seems good enough? Do note that she has already created several dimensions in the past - so that's at least four recreated planets that we know of.

Just a side note, kaguya came from a different world - she is not a part of juubi's creation. That's why the overall power equation seems skewed.

So, answer to the question is.. Are naruto and sasuke planet level? No. However, characters like sage of six paths, kaguya, juubi? I'd argue yes. Only time naruto and sasuke have been close to that level is when backed by sage of six paths - that is, indra/ashura mode.

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Basically, the thread is an effort to establish their power levels: I'll cover different stats, such as durability/endurance, clear up general misconceptions such as the one with genjutsu, and maybe add information on a subject someone else requested. Of course, this doesn't mean I'm correct on everything. You're welcome to suggest any improvements in the thread at any time.

Whew. That was a lot more than expected.

Also - just so people don't get confused - by planetary I mean they can affect the entire planet. Not that they can fire a beam at it and blow it up or anything like that.

@nyas: I said I'd tag you. I don't have the strength left to tag anyone else..

Holy wall of text! So is this a respect thread or an information thread?

I don't know anymore lol. An information thread seems more accurate for now..

Couldn't even finish reading it....too much information........but looks interesting lol.

you're telling me lol.

There are size inconsistencies for The Rasenshuriken scans.Note that the tree next to Naruto is exactly the same as the trees right next to the "mountains" and the Rasenshuriken explosion created a giant ball of smoke which doesn't completely confirm it being mountain level.Those mountains aren't that much bigger than the tree next to them.

Gamabunta's size just isn't that large nor is. Konoha's size to a real city from the birds eye view isn't that large.

Real Life Size comparisons comparisons help compare.

@sondeatheater:

There are size inconsistencies for The Rasenshuriken scans.Note that the tree next to Naruto is exactly the same as the trees right next to the "mountains" Those mountains aren't that much bigger than the tree next to them.

Ah, that's an easy one. Trees of myobokuzan can grow to insane sizes:

considering how far naruto is from the location, both are quite large.

and the Rasenshuriken explosion created a giant ball of smoke which doesn't completely confirm it being mountain level.

Actually, we know the effectiveness of the blast - and now we know the size. That's what makes it mountain level.

Gamabunta's size just isn't that large nor is.

It's actually one of the few scans depicting his size, instead of adjusting for action. Or if you want a clearer shot:

Konoha's size to a real city from the birds eye view isn't that large.

Birds eye view depends on the height from which the object is observed. Either way, we have a clear enough number given on-panel.. Scaling via birds eye view will involve calcs..

Real Life Size comparisons comparisons help compare.

ok...?

.....

@princearagorn1: If this is like a discussion thread or something of that nature, I'm down to participate though. Lol

@thevivas: feel free to do so. Did you manage to read through?

:(

@princearagorn1: It's just so much...a lot to process. Makes me want to read/watch Naruto again though.

@darthaznable: I wasn't expecting it'd be so big either.. Plus it's comicvine... the images disappeared - Twice.

But I had no idea what you were saying with "..."

@princearagorn1: Where are you getting the images? CV is pretty picky.

@princearagorn1: Fantastic thread, bro !

Each statement is backed by canon proof. Each point so very well explained. Really, you deserve respect !

Hopefully this will help viners realize the true potential of Naruto characters and silence the downplayer. :D

Ps: wow, It took me a while just to read this (totally worth it), I can't imagine how long it took you to write it

@nyas: Thanks :)

Ps: wow, It took me a while just to read this (totally worth it), I can't imagine how long it took you to write it

Yep, it took a while, specially after the post was eaten the first time lol.

Hopefully this will help viners realize the true potential of Naruto characters and silence the downplayer. :D

Time to tag.

Kuchiyose! Battle call-out phonebook!

@the_imperator@dratini1331@rogueshadow: @homicidalmaniac@funsiized: @soothing_sounds@sync1: @ratava: @nighthunder:

@redbird3rdboywonder@sophia89@jonez120: @tohoma: @theamazingimmortalman: @thitiki: @justsomerandomkid: @cjdavis103: @ssj_god: @etheral_dreams: @mr_ingenuity: @jashro44

Join in, guys! Anything that needs to be addressed?

Take you time reading, there's no rush..

....So a respect thread? Cool.

Looks good.

@justsomerandomkid: you could call it a respect thread of sorts, but's it's main purpose it to establish the level they are at, and dealing with other problems arising at battle board such as genjutsu.

A respect thread will generally focus on a character's advantages in a fight, if I'm not wrong.

@princearagorn1: You saved me; I was planning on doing this same thing. Still, you did more accurately than I probably could've managed and I can see all your hardwork. Good thread, 10/10 would link.

@etheral_dreams:

Good to know, and thanks :)

@princearagorn1: A very good post overall. I haven't read it overall but gave it a good skim. Though I'm a bit surprised/disappointed no speed calcs were included in the post.

This is an awesome thread and showcase for the Naruto characters, I commend you Prince :)

Any suggestions?

Well, you missed the part where it says the post is just there to establish their direct power output. Speed/Durability may be dealt with later.

thanks.

@princearagorn1

awesome thread, good work!!

Very nice man.

Nice

@princearagorn1: I would need to give it a read through when I have time but skimming through it I don't see any thing to add. This was very well done.

a-w-e-s-o-m-e

@PrinceAragorn1:

I really wish i had ten thumbs man, guess you'll have to make do with two. Excellent work man. Pat yourself on ur shoulder for me.

;)

@a1l_s2a3m4e5n: Thanks :)

This was so fucking amazing. :3

@princearagorn1: Hey, do you have anything to messure the average shinobi?

@princearagorn1: You should update this, maybe fix some of the images. This is always a worthwhile read.

You know what I am with everybody who suggested it before

That is that you should update this with the new information that we gave been given in both of the last movies

Epic BUMP!

You gotta update this prince.

Yeah, many of the images just don't work anymore. I'd suggest using this source instead. https://ww6.readnaruto.com/chapter/naruto-chapter-1/

@nyas: Factssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

very well done, shame that the imagegs aren´t working anymore

Lmaoooo

This is laughable