Here on comicvine powerscaling for dbz is used constantly. It bothers me. So i wanted to know personally how powerful do you think the z fighters are without powerscaling or power levels?
Here on comicvine powerscaling for dbz is used constantly. It bothers me. So i wanted to know personally how powerful do you think the z fighters are without powerscaling or power levels?
if the creator admits to having no idea then idk how any fan would be able to get it down to a precise number...
My understanding of powerscaling is trying to determine a characters power (stregnth, speed, etc.) by comparing them to other characters. For example, Frieza is a confirmed planet buster, and even though we've never seen Goku bust a planet he beat Frieza. Therefore, via powerscaling we can say that Goku is also a planet buster. Powerscaling works based on the mathematical relationship known as transivity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_relation
-Uberhikari
ABC Logic is more of a comparison to the character themselves (not necessarily their abilities), but power-scaling revolves around abilities for the most part.
Examples:
Cell claimed to have enough power to bust the entire solar-system, and Super Saiyan 2 Goku is stronger than Cell so Goku could do so too (Power Scaling).
Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan didn't stand a chance against Majin Buu and was downed by a single blow, yet SSJ3 Goku was handling Buu perfectly fine so therefore Goku would easily beat SSJ2 Gohan (ABC Logic).
Without applying these methods of gauging dbz characters how powerful are they?
@jeepeh: Was on the hopper and just throwing something out there. No way Supes gets out of the way of a kameyamaya wave. Goku is able to pull off that move in less than hour at times. :/
My understanding of powerscaling is trying to determine a characters power (stregnth, speed, etc.) by comparing them to other characters. For example, Frieza is a confirmed planet buster, and even though we've never seen Goku bust a planet he beat Frieza. Therefore, via powerscaling we can say that Goku is also a planet buster. Powerscaling works based on the mathematical relationship known as transivity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_relation
-Uberhikari
ABC Logic is more of a comparison to the character themselves (not necessarily their abilities), but power-scaling revolves around abilities for the most part.
Examples:
Cell claimed to have enough power to bust the entire solar-system, and Super Saiyan 2 Goku is stronger than Cell so Goku could do so too (Power Scaling).
Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan didn't stand a chance against Majin Buu and was downed by a single blow, yet SSJ3 Goku was handling Buu perfectly fine so therefore Goku would easily beat SSJ2 Gohan (ABC Logic).
Without applying these methods of gauging dbz characters how powerful are they?
So, basically, how powerful would they be if they were featless? I'm guessing not very...
So if we only allowed feat the characters have shown themselves and not based off who've they fought or battle. lol Goku wouldn't be over an island buster.
So if we only allowed feat the characters have shown themselves and not based off who've they fought or battle. lol Goku wouldn't be over an island buster.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Better than Flash... So a DBZ character would survive a billion IMPs? Pffft Please. Let's not go into Superman Prime 1 Million. Tho I don't know if Batman could actually do anything against a DBZ character, even with prep.
@lucano: When has the Flash ever delivered a billion IMPs? Honestly, he had to get a running start to deliver his IMP and it did nothing but leave a crater in the ground. And not an impressive sized crater either. Impressive for a human maybe, but eh.
@the_last_kryptonian: No Flash has never had the need to deliver a billion, that's it. The IMP hits with the strength of a exploding white dwarf star, a DBZ character does not punch with that strength, let alone survived something of that magnitude, be it a billion or be it 1, they stand no chance against an IMP.
@the_last_kryptonian: No Flash has never had the need to deliver a billion, that's it. The IMP hits with the strength of a exploding white dwarf star, a DBZ character does not punch with that strength, let alone survived something of that magnitude, be it a billion or be it 1, they stand no chance against an IMP.
Do you have any feats or science to back that theory up?
LOL. So a saiyan is better than a guy who can run at quadrillion times the speed of light, can react at Zepto/Yoctoseconds, can punch with the force of a white dwarf star, and can tank thousands of Superman level Punches?
@deathhero61: Minus fanboy, I mean powerscaling, they are still rather powerful. Higher in strength and punching power than a fresh enraged hulk. As far as their energy manipulation, which is really what it come down to for them, that's harder to say.
@lucano: When has the Flash ever delivered a billion IMPs? Honestly, he had to get a running start to deliver his IMP and it did nothing but leave a crater in the ground. And not an impressive sized crater either. Impressive for a human maybe, but eh.
Wally was circling the White Martian Zum so fast that Zum could only perceive Wally as a continuous beam of light. He could have laid into Zum as many times as he wanted.
And then there's the fact that Wonder Woman, who's been hit by Superman loads of times, remarks that Zoom's light speed IMP packs more power than Superman's punches. There's enough evidence to rate Superman's striking power as above any DBZ character so that supports the conclusion that speedsters can easily build up enough mass for devestating punches.
Vegito would lose to Master Roshi with out power scaling.
And thus why power-scaling was brought into debates, because it really doesn't make sense for someone of a higher power to be bested by someone of vastly inferior power but better feats, regardless of the fact that everyone on the roster obtains the same abilities. I myself don't use it debating formally, but I stand by that opinion.
Cell or Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would be the most powerful canon character in Dragon-Ball without the uses of power-scaling, which like I said is ridiculous to believe they could best someone in a power battle such as Super Buu, let alone Vegito.
@the_last_kryptonian: Kai's planet is the size of an average mountain... God, I've seen people say Kai's planet/earth are stars because the word "gosh I" is colloquial Japanese for both star and planet...
Vegito would lose to Master Roshi with out power scaling.
And thus why power-scaling was brought into debates, because it really doesn't make sense for someone of a higher power to be bested by someone of vastly inferior power but better feats, regardless of the fact that everyone on the roster obtains the same abilities. I myself don't use it debating formally, but I stand by that opinion.
Cell or Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would be the most powerful canon character in Dragon-Ball without the uses of power-scaling, which like I said is ridiculous to believe they could best someone in a power battle such as Super Buu, let alone Vegito.
this. although cases can be made for other characters, even with power scaling. But yeah vegito is pretty much featless aside from fighting other right?
Although there are definately tons of comic characters who are just as strong.
@lucano: When has the Flash ever delivered a billion IMPs? Honestly, he had to get a running start to deliver his IMP and it did nothing but leave a crater in the ground. And not an impressive sized crater either. Impressive for a human maybe, but eh.
Wally was circling the White Martian Zum so fast that Zum could only perceive Wally as a continuous beam of light. He could have laid into Zum as many times as he wanted.
And then there's the fact that Wonder Woman, who's been hit by Superman loads of times, remarks that Zoom's light speed IMP packs more power than Superman's punches. There's enough evidence to rate Superman's striking power as above any DBZ character so that supports the conclusion that speedsters can easily build up enough mass for devestating punches.
Nuff said I think.
High tier Dragon Ball Z Characters move many times the speed of light. This sort of speed shouldn't be a disadvantage at all. And theoretically, they should be able to replicate the same feat.
@the_last_kryptonian: Kai's planet is the size of an average mountain... God, I've seen people say Kai's planet/earth are stars because the word "gosh I" is colloquial Japanese for both star and planet...
The size of it means literally nothing. King Kai's planet was stated as being ten times the Gravity of Earth, meaning ten times the mass and density, which would make King Kai's planet far more durable than Earth. And the fact that the airfrom Goku's punch, which was not even intended to hit the planet, caused such a significantly large hole is more than enough evidence that he's far greater than island buster in terms of power. If he'd intended to hit the planet, I have no doubt he could obliterate it completely.
@lucano: When has the Flash ever delivered a billion IMPs? Honestly, he had to get a running start to deliver his IMP and it did nothing but leave a crater in the ground. And not an impressive sized crater either. Impressive for a human maybe, but eh.
Wally was circling the White Martian Zum so fast that Zum could only perceive Wally as a continuous beam of light. He could have laid into Zum as many times as he wanted.
And then there's the fact that Wonder Woman, who's been hit by Superman loads of times, remarks that Zoom's light speed IMP packs more power than Superman's punches. There's enough evidence to rate Superman's striking power as above any DBZ character so that supports the conclusion that speedsters can easily build up enough mass for devastating punches.
Nuff said I think.
High tier Dragon Ball Z Characters move many times the speed of light. This sort of speed shouldn't be a disadvantage at all. And theoretically, they should be able to replicate the same feat.
Wally can move much faster than what was shown here.
@jeepeh: Was on the hopper and just throwing something out there. No way Supes gets out of the way of a kameyamaya wave. Goku is able to pull off that move in less than hour at times. :/
Superman was lightspeed and planet level before going in the sun for 15,000 years. Being in the sun for a few minutes makes him capable of effortlessly pushing planets. How fast will he be after coming out of the sun after 15,000 years? Unless the Kamehameha can travel hundreds or thousands of times faster than light, he's not hitting Superman, neither is he hurting him.
@the_last_kryptonian: Kai's planet is the size of an average mountain... God, I've seen people say Kai's planet/earth are stars because the word "gosh I" is colloquial Japanese for both star and planet...
The size of it means literally nothing. King Kai's planet was stated as being ten times the Gravity of Earth, meaning ten times the mass and density, which would make King Kai's planet far more durable than Earth. And the fact that the airfrom Goku's punch, which was not even intended to hit the planet, caused such a significantly large hole is more than enough evidence that he's far greater than island buster in terms of power. If he'd intended to hit the planet, I have no doubt he could obliterate it completely.
How come people use this logic for Goku and not for Dangai Ichigo?! I said this (The air thing) about Ichigo and suddenly I'm stupid because "anime attacks travel farther than they should be able to normally, so actually hitting it wouldn't do more". I call bull. T_T
@the_last_kryptonian: Kai's planet is the size of an average mountain... God, I've seen people say Kai's planet/earth are stars because the word "gosh I" is colloquial Japanese for both star and planet...
The size of it means literally nothing. King Kai's planet was stated as being ten times the Gravity of Earth, meaning ten times the mass and density, which would make King Kai's planet far more durable than Earth. And the fact that the airfrom Goku's punch, which was not even intended to hit the planet, caused such a significantly large hole is more than enough evidence that he's far greater than island buster in terms of power. If he'd intended to hit the planet, I have no doubt he could obliterate it completely.
Jumping in real quick, but higher gravity does not mean higher mass or density; just look at Jupiter compared to Earth. Also, size really does matter, because usually the bigger the planet, the higher the gravity....so King Kai's planet is weird lol. But anyways, all you can really know for certain is that Goku is 10 times heavier on King Kais planet. The density and mass is something we really can't determine....
@jeepeh: I think he could hit him, supes has been hit by weaker characters before right? Not saying goku would win but I think he could hit him if he uses instant transmission.
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