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#1 Edited by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

- I've seen many times here on the vine that people say Hulk is stronger than Hercules, but it was never shown in comics

- Hulk has problems with Thing and Abomination, while Herc one shotted both of them

- Hulk defeated Hercules during 90's, but Herc was greatly depowered in this state, and Hulk was really mad so it isn't valid for full powered Hercules

- During World War Hulk, Hulk took down Hercules with 3 punches, but Herc was just standing, and when he hit Hulk, Hulk actually fell and Herc made him bleed with one punch

- So what is the proof that Hulk is stronger than Hercules and we can say Thor also?

#2 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

That fight in the 90's after Onslaught is hardly valid for full powered Hulk either ---- it was during a period of time when his powers were constantly malfunctioning, his durability would occasionally go down the toilet, and the excess energy from the Heroes Reborn debacle was killing him slowly. Herc may have been stripped of his immortality, but Hulk was literally dying. The point about Thing is a pretty laughable attempt at lowballing ---- Thing has conceded inferiority to Hulk for decades now, their most recent fight had a weakened Hulk chump Thing and Wolverine simultaneously, and prior to that showing, an angry Thing pounded away at Hulk (who didn't even raise a finger in response) and didn't manage to faze him in the slightest. The Abomination lamp-post one-shot was idiotic.

Hercules has never managed to defeat Hulk. He's fought Hulk with an entire Avengers team backing him up and failed to even come close to stopping him.

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

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#3 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

Because feats rein supreme on the Vine, so....ya. Though I don't see it either really. Marvel also needs to repower Herc already, and quit depowering him...why they keep doing so I haven't a clue. However Herc holding the weight of the Earth/Heavens should point to, that he has no limits in what his strength is I am pretty sure that is what they were trying to point out.

#4 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15901 posts) - - Show Bio

He's not.

#5 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

He's not.

Well he is now, since they made Herc into a mere mortal with Greek weapons. :P

#6 Posted by Reignmaker (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

This. OP is basically cherry-picking to make his argument.

#7 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

That fight in the 90's after Onslaught is hardly valid for full powered Hulk either ---- it was during a period of time when his powers were constantly malfunctioning, his durability would occasionally go down the toilet, and the excess energy from the Heroes Reborn debacle was killing him slowly. Herc may have been stripped of his immortality, but Hulk was literally dying. The point about Thing is a pretty laughable attempt at lowballing ---- Thing has conceded inferiority to Hulk for decades now, their most recent fight had a weakened Hulk chump Thing and Wolverine simultaneously, and prior to that showing, an angry Thing pounded away at Hulk (who didn't even raise a finger in response) and didn't manage to faze him in the slightest. The Abomination lamp-post one-shot was idiotic.

Hercules has never managed to defeat Hulk. He's fought Hulk with an entire Avengers team backing him up and failed to even come close to stopping him.

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

Maybe you're right, but what are those high-end stuff Hulk has done? I'm not expert on either of them, I know that Herc fought Typhon to stalemate and all of the gods including Zeus were afraiding of him, and you saw what Zeus did to Hulk. Except this I can't recall much of Herc's high-end feats in recent years lol.

#8 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: The biggest one I can think of is Herc holding the weight of the Earth/Heavens, however...since it isn't possible to calculate the weight of the heavens, its more of showing that Herc's strength can't be calculated rather then showing a pure strength feat, at least that is how I see it(which on Herc's stat sheet his strength is labeled as Uncalcuable). So take that as what you will.

#9 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (15901 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

He's not.

Well he is now, since they made Herc into a mere mortal with Greek weapons. :P

ouch

#10 Posted by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer said:

@princearagorn1 said:

He's not.

Well he is now, since they made Herc into a mere mortal with Greek weapons. :P

ouch

Ya...doesn't really make much sense to me, I don't understand why Marvel keeps de-powering him...but hoping that he'll be re-powered soon(he should have been already...but can wait.)

#11 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

That fight in the 90's after Onslaught is hardly valid for full powered Hulk either ---- it was during a period of time when his powers were constantly malfunctioning, his durability would occasionally go down the toilet, and the excess energy from the Heroes Reborn debacle was killing him slowly. Herc may have been stripped of his immortality, but Hulk was literally dying. The point about Thing is a pretty laughable attempt at lowballing ---- Thing has conceded inferiority to Hulk for decades now, their most recent fight had a weakened Hulk chump Thing and Wolverine simultaneously, and prior to that showing, an angry Thing pounded away at Hulk (who didn't even raise a finger in response) and didn't manage to faze him in the slightest. The Abomination lamp-post one-shot was idiotic.

Hercules has never managed to defeat Hulk. He's fought Hulk with an entire Avengers team backing him up and failed to even come close to stopping him.

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

Maybe you're right, but what are those high-end stuff Hulk has done? I'm not expert on either of them, I know that Herc fought Typhon to stalemate and all of the gods including Zeus were afraiding of him, and you saw what Zeus did to Hulk. Except this I can't recall much of Herc's high-end feats in recent years lol.

What, in recent years? Destroying a planet with the equivalent of a high-powered fist bump seems like a decent enough feat.

Zeus is the most unreliable character imaginable when it comes to power comparisons. He has never had a stable power level. Zeus fought Thor for months to a stalemate. Hulk has beaten Thor unconscious with his own hammer.....twice. Clearly Hulk is more capable, amirite? But Zeus beat Hulk! But Zeus stalemated Thor! But Thor's strength is equal to Hercules! But Thor has lost to Hulk! So Hulk is stronger than Thor who is equal to Hercules who is greater than Zeus who is equal to Thor who is physically weaker than Hulk!

Convoluted as that string is, Thor is Hercules' equal in terms of strength according to several accounts, and Thor has had his ass handed to him by Hulk when he tried taking the Jade Giant on in a purely physical clash. ABC logic works both ways.

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#12 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15901 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@wolfrazer said:

@princearagorn1 said:

He's not.

Well he is now, since they made Herc into a mere mortal with Greek weapons. :P

ouch

Ya...doesn't really make much sense to me, I don't understand why Marvel keeps de-powering him...but hoping that he'll be re-powered soon(he should have been already...but can wait.)

Yeah, I literally forgot about his current version.. I thought of the omgpowerful hercules he was lol..

#13 Posted by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@citizenbane said:

That fight in the 90's after Onslaught is hardly valid for full powered Hulk either ---- it was during a period of time when his powers were constantly malfunctioning, his durability would occasionally go down the toilet, and the excess energy from the Heroes Reborn debacle was killing him slowly. Herc may have been stripped of his immortality, but Hulk was literally dying. The point about Thing is a pretty laughable attempt at lowballing ---- Thing has conceded inferiority to Hulk for decades now, their most recent fight had a weakened Hulk chump Thing and Wolverine simultaneously, and prior to that showing, an angry Thing pounded away at Hulk (who didn't even raise a finger in response) and didn't manage to faze him in the slightest. The Abomination lamp-post one-shot was idiotic.

Hercules has never managed to defeat Hulk. He's fought Hulk with an entire Avengers team backing him up and failed to even come close to stopping him.

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

Maybe you're right, but what are those high-end stuff Hulk has done? I'm not expert on either of them, I know that Herc fought Typhon to stalemate and all of the gods including Zeus were afraiding of him, and you saw what Zeus did to Hulk. Except this I can't recall much of Herc's high-end feats in recent years lol.

What, in recent years? Destroying a planet with the equivalent of a high-powered fist bump seems like a decent enough feat.

Zeus is the most unreliable character imaginable when it comes to power comparisons. He has never had a stable power level. Zeus fought Thor for months to a stalemate. Hulk has beaten Thor unconscious with his own hammer.....twice. Clearly Hulk is more capable, amirite? But Zeus beat Hulk! But Zeus stalemated Thor! But Thor's strength is equal to Hercules! But Thor has lost to Hulk! So Hulk is stronger than Thor who is equal to Hercules who is greater than Zeus who is equal to Thor who is physically weaker than Hulk!

Convoluted as that string is, Thor is Hercules' equal in terms of strength according to several accounts, and Thor has had his ass handed to him by Hulk when he tried taking the Jade Giant on in a purely physical clash. ABC logic works both ways.

Noting the planet destroying feat, wasn't under his power alone.

#14 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@bigcimmerian said:

@citizenbane said:

That fight in the 90's after Onslaught is hardly valid for full powered Hulk either ---- it was during a period of time when his powers were constantly malfunctioning, his durability would occasionally go down the toilet, and the excess energy from the Heroes Reborn debacle was killing him slowly. Herc may have been stripped of his immortality, but Hulk was literally dying. The point about Thing is a pretty laughable attempt at lowballing ---- Thing has conceded inferiority to Hulk for decades now, their most recent fight had a weakened Hulk chump Thing and Wolverine simultaneously, and prior to that showing, an angry Thing pounded away at Hulk (who didn't even raise a finger in response) and didn't manage to faze him in the slightest. The Abomination lamp-post one-shot was idiotic.

Hercules has never managed to defeat Hulk. He's fought Hulk with an entire Avengers team backing him up and failed to even come close to stopping him.

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

Maybe you're right, but what are those high-end stuff Hulk has done? I'm not expert on either of them, I know that Herc fought Typhon to stalemate and all of the gods including Zeus were afraiding of him, and you saw what Zeus did to Hulk. Except this I can't recall much of Herc's high-end feats in recent years lol.

What, in recent years? Destroying a planet with the equivalent of a high-powered fist bump seems like a decent enough feat.

Zeus is the most unreliable character imaginable when it comes to power comparisons. He has never had a stable power level. Zeus fought Thor for months to a stalemate. Hulk has beaten Thor unconscious with his own hammer.....twice. Clearly Hulk is more capable, amirite? But Zeus beat Hulk! But Zeus stalemated Thor! But Thor's strength is equal to Hercules! But Thor has lost to Hulk! So Hulk is stronger than Thor who is equal to Hercules who is greater than Zeus who is equal to Thor who is physically weaker than Hulk!

Convoluted as that string is, Thor is Hercules' equal in terms of strength according to several accounts, and Thor has had his ass handed to him by Hulk when he tried taking the Jade Giant on in a purely physical clash. ABC logic works both ways.

Noting the planet destroying feat, wasn't under his power alone.

Sure, but considering Herc has never done anything to suggest he could replicate the feat were he to face off against a physical peer, it doesn't really matter. Brushing off the planet exploding was under Hulk's power alone, especially notable since the force of the explosion was powerful enough to completely obliterate multiple beings who are usually capable of going toe-to-toe with Hulk.

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#15 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@citizenbane said:

That fight in the 90's after Onslaught is hardly valid for full powered Hulk either ---- it was during a period of time when his powers were constantly malfunctioning, his durability would occasionally go down the toilet, and the excess energy from the Heroes Reborn debacle was killing him slowly. Herc may have been stripped of his immortality, but Hulk was literally dying. The point about Thing is a pretty laughable attempt at lowballing ---- Thing has conceded inferiority to Hulk for decades now, their most recent fight had a weakened Hulk chump Thing and Wolverine simultaneously, and prior to that showing, an angry Thing pounded away at Hulk (who didn't even raise a finger in response) and didn't manage to faze him in the slightest. The Abomination lamp-post one-shot was idiotic.

Hercules has never managed to defeat Hulk. He's fought Hulk with an entire Avengers team backing him up and failed to even come close to stopping him.

Proof? Go feat by feat and you'll struggle to find anything from Herc that matches most of the more high-end stuff Hulk has done. In virtually any category you care to mention.

Maybe you're right, but what are those high-end stuff Hulk has done? I'm not expert on either of them, I know that Herc fought Typhon to stalemate and all of the gods including Zeus were afraiding of him, and you saw what Zeus did to Hulk. Except this I can't recall much of Herc's high-end feats in recent years lol.

What, in recent years? Destroying a planet with the equivalent of a high-powered fist bump seems like a decent enough feat.

Zeus is the most unreliable character imaginable when it comes to power comparisons. He has never had a stable power level. Zeus fought Thor for months to a stalemate. Hulk has beaten Thor unconscious with his own hammer.....twice. Clearly Hulk is more capable, amirite? But Zeus beat Hulk! But Zeus stalemated Thor! But Thor's strength is equal to Hercules! But Thor has lost to Hulk! So Hulk is stronger than Thor who is equal to Hercules who is greater than Zeus who is equal to Thor who is physically weaker than Hulk!

Convoluted as that string is, Thor is Hercules' equal in terms of strength according to several accounts, and Thor has had his ass handed to him by Hulk when he tried taking the Jade Giant on in a purely physical clash. ABC logic works both ways.

I heard that Zeus only wanted to test Thor in that battle.

#16 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian:

this all depends on which hulk. worldbreaker is stronger than herc but normal hulk isnt. the fanboys are going to jump on you because apparently nobody is allowed to be stronger than hulk. Normal herc starts out stronger than normal hulk but hulk will eventually become stronger. same thing with thor, thor starts out stronger but hulk eventually becomes stronger. the strength debate between these characters is always endless because they are so close and it really becomes your opinion at this point, not fact like the fanboys think.

Thor getting beat by hulk is always questionable because majority of the time thor will just forget how to fight or use his powers against hulk but against someone like herc, thor never forgets how to fight. Comparing a character to character fight is silly because thor always gets a bad showing against hulk. thor can take down silver surfer, beta ray bill and glory but cant take down hulk?

#17 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian:

this all depends on which hulk. worldbreaker is stronger than herc but normal hulk isnt. the fanboys are going to jump on you because apparently nobody is allowed to be stronger than hulk. Normal herc starts out stronger than normal hulk but hulk will eventually become stronger. same thing with thor, thor starts out stronger but hulk eventually becomes stronger. the strength debate between these characters is always endless because they are so close and it really becomes your opinion at this point, not fact like the fanboys think.

Thor getting beat by hulk is always questionable because majority of the time thor will just forget how to fight or use his powers against hulk but against someone like herc, thor never forgets how to fight. Comparing a character to character fight is silly because thor always gets a bad showing against hulk. thor can take down silver surfer, beta ray bill and glory but cant take down hulk?

Yeah, that's what I hate about Hulk vs Thor, Thor is constantly shown hurting and beating herald and even skyfather level characters and he still fails to beat Hulk lol.

#18 Posted by dtm1980 (239 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor practically batted Hulk out of the park in Fear Itself as I remember and it wasnt with much effort compared to their past bouts. Doesn't it all just depend on the writer putting them together. And then you have the whole 'plot armour' factor?! I hate using that phrase, makes me feel dirty...

Anyhoooo... I'd say it could really go either way with Hulk and Herc. All just depends who gets the upper hand. Herc being the strongest ever and Hulk being one big ball of RAGE-QUIT!!!

#19 Posted by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Citizen Bane pretty much nailed it.

It basically comes dow to Thor being Herc's physical equal, the fact that Hulk has proven physically above Thor and Herc's inability to get any wins over Hulk, except with back-up and intent to kill. And he barely won then.

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@bigcimmerian:

this all depends on which hulk. worldbreaker is stronger than herc but normal hulk isnt. the fanboys are going to jump on you because apparently nobody is allowed to be stronger than hulk. Normal herc starts out stronger than normal hulk but hulk will eventually become stronger. same thing with thor, thor starts out stronger but hulk eventually becomes stronger. the strength debate between these characters is always endless because they are so close and it really becomes your opinion at this point, not fact like the fanboys think.

Thor getting beat by hulk is always questionable because majority of the time thor will just forget how to fight or use his powers against hulk but against someone like herc, thor never forgets how to fight. Comparing a character to character fight is silly because thor always gets a bad showing against hulk. thor can take down silver surfer, beta ray bill and glory but cant take down hulk?

Yeah, that's what I hate about Hulk vs Thor, Thor is constantly shown hurting and beating herald and even skyfather level characters and he still fails to beat Hulk lol.

You should really read more Hulk, Big C.

#20 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

Citizen Bane pretty much nailed it.

It basically comes dow to Thor being Herc's physical equal, the fact that Hulk has proven physically above Thor and Herc's inability to get any wins over Hulk, except with back-up and intent to kill. And he barely won then.

@bigcimmerian said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@bigcimmerian:

this all depends on which hulk. worldbreaker is stronger than herc but normal hulk isnt. the fanboys are going to jump on you because apparently nobody is allowed to be stronger than hulk. Normal herc starts out stronger than normal hulk but hulk will eventually become stronger. same thing with thor, thor starts out stronger but hulk eventually becomes stronger. the strength debate between these characters is always endless because they are so close and it really becomes your opinion at this point, not fact like the fanboys think.

Thor getting beat by hulk is always questionable because majority of the time thor will just forget how to fight or use his powers against hulk but against someone like herc, thor never forgets how to fight. Comparing a character to character fight is silly because thor always gets a bad showing against hulk. thor can take down silver surfer, beta ray bill and glory but cant take down hulk?

Yeah, that's what I hate about Hulk vs Thor, Thor is constantly shown hurting and beating herald and even skyfather level characters and he still fails to beat Hulk lol.

You should really read more Hulk, Big C.

I was actually considering giving him a shot. Can you tell me some good storylines involving Hulk? To be honest I've read only World War Hulk, several comics of Avengers with Hulk in it, his fights with Thor and his fight with Zeus. Most of my knowledge about Hulk comes from comic vine.

#21 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

I just find it retarded tbh...but eh, I accept it, I kinda blame that they keep nerfing Herc at times which is just retarded too but w/e. Though as I recall Herc has beaten Hulk and vis versa, with something to 3:2 or something like that.

#22 Posted by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: Sure thing! Planet Hulk TPB, Hulk Visionaries: Peter David (PAD), Hulk Visionaries: John Byrne and Hulk: Future Imperfect are all great, imo.

#23 Edited by Binski (643 posts) - - Show Bio

What I always wondered about Hulk and his "infinite strength" is doesn't he get stronger the madder he gets? but isn't there a limit to how mad you can get? how pissed can you be at something? I dunno

#24 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby: getting wins over a character does not determine their power levels. Hulk may have 2 wins over herc but the aren't genuine wins. Hulks was able to beat a depowered herc, doesnt really count. In wwh, herc gets the upper hand against hulk then stops fighting to allow hulk to pound on him. again, doesnt count.

theres also other factors to a fight other than strength like fighting skill especially when hulk maybe has the strength edge over herc. herc is by far a better fighter which accounts for alot more.

#25 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: popularity, thats why thor will never beat hulk. the hulk fans will go into an outrage if hulk loses to thor which doesnt make sense

#26 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@binski said:

What I always wondered about Hulk and his "infinite strength" is doesn't he get stronger the madder he gets? but isn't there a limit to how mad you can get? how pissed can you be at something? I dunno

Not in the comic world. Though if I recall right, Hulk did reach a point where he did stop being angry.

#27 Edited by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby: getting wins over a character does not determine their power levels. Hulk may have 2 wins over herc but the aren't genuine wins. Hulks was able to beat a depowered herc, doesnt really count. In wwh, herc gets the upper hand against hulk then stops fighting to allow hulk to pound on him. again, doesnt count.

theres also other factors to a fight other than strength like fighting skill especially when hulk maybe has the strength edge over herc. herc is by far a better fighter which accounts for alot more.

I don't recall Herc being depowered when he fought Hulk, with the help of the Avengers, and barely won. Or when Hulk merely flexed and flung Hercules away.

How did Herc have the upper hand? Herc took way more punishment and 'holding back" doesn't lower his durability.

And you skipped the part where I mentioned Hulk's superiority to Thor, Herc's physical equal.

Despite Herc's better martial skills, he still doesn't have a solo win over the Hulk and is typically shown to struggle against him, even when he has back-up.

There's no "maybe" about it. Hulk IS stronger than Hercules and that's been supported by the books themselves. He simply has more/better feats.

#28 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby: But Hulk also doesn't have solo win against Hercules :P

#29 Edited by TheAcidSkull (17152 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk beats hercules every time, they don't have the same power levels now.

Hulk wins every time.

#30 Posted by ZombieMowlcher (671 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by SC (12508 posts) - - Show Bio

You shouldn't put much stock into what anyone says on the Vine before you establish how credible they are as far as definitions, ability to reason, familiarity with the comics and honesty or at least willingness to discuss why and how they arrive to the conclusions they do. Then apply your own knowledge and reasoning into the mix. Look at how people use subjective terms rendering their meaning pointless, look at the failure of propositional logic used as a basis for arguments. Its all very sad.

Anyway as fictional characters go, Hulk has higher stock than Hercules, as far as writers and as far as readers go, unless Hercules suddenly becomes a villain or some writer comes along with an idea that involves raising Hercules profile dramatically, generally stories will reflect Hulk as a stronger character, but these things are subjective at the best to times, and contrary to popular belief all characters have unlimited potential for strength by virtue of being fictional characters. With Hulk thats just emphasized in the in story narrative because its a big part of the character and much admired trait. Ultimately no one can stop you for believing your own ideas as far as which characters should various magnitudes of strong. Just probably not a smart idea to expect a story anytime which reflects that or one where Hercules gets to be shown as strong as Hulk, or Thor, or Hyperion for that matter. Tis very unfortunate perhaps for a Hercules fan. Even more so when the only writer who has taken interest in Hercules by a self admitted bigger fan of the Hulk. Which led to great Hercules stories but would never ever lead to that writer implying that Hercules be stronger.

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#32 Posted by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby: But Hulk also doesn't have solo win against Hercules :P

Actually, I think Hulk has beaten Hercules. But if Hercules was Hulk's equal/superior, he'd have a much better track record, especially since he has help in most of their encounters.

And, again, Hulk HAS beaten Herc's physical peer, Thor. ;-)

(And proven physically above Silver Surfer, too, I might add.)

#33 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby: you may not recall herc being depowered but he was, just because you dont remember doesnt mean it didnt happen.

upper hand by having hulk on the ground saying he doesnt want to fight him. it may have been brief but he did. herc obviously took more punishment when he stopped fighting to show hulk what he was doing is wrong.

i didnt skip anything, hulk has no superiority over thor. thor has been able lift planet weights making him just as strong as hulk and so is hercules. as i said before thor and hercules start out stronger than hulk but hulk will become stronger if we are assuming standard characters for all. this makes more sense that what most fanboys are suggesting.

hulk doesn't have a real win over herc, that makes your point useless. using character vs characters as your entire argument is idiotic. wolverine has beaten hulk, despite being incredibly weak. does this mean wolverine is as strong and durable as hulk? no, thats why using character vs character arguments is dumb. hulk has been beaten by cap and spiderman as well despite being out of their league. spider man has beaten firelord, does this mean spidey is more powerful than firelord? i could go on and on but i hope you got my point. the more popular character normally wins fights, not who logically should win. thats why we have battle forums, to get rid of the stupidity involved in most fights and find the logical answer. if we are assuming standard levels herc definitely is on par with hulk despite what the fanboys think. i know someone like worldbreaker is out of herc league like how skyfather herc is out of hulks league. thats why it is a maybe and debatable. simply saying it is a fact without proving it in any way possible is as good saying nothing.

please tell me you didnt just say hulk is physically above surfer.

#34 Posted by Dernman (14611 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't believe Herc is truly in Hulks league and that might be because he isn't as big a name.

#35 Edited by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby: you may not recall herc being depowered but he was, just because you dont remember doesnt mean it didnt happen.

upper hand by having hulk on the ground saying he doesnt want to fight him. it may have been brief but he did. herc obviously took more punishment when he stopped fighting to show hulk what he was doing is wrong.

i didnt skip anything, hulk has no superiority over thor. thor has been able lift planet weights making him just as strong as hulk and so is hercules. as i said before thor and hercules start out stronger than hulk but hulk will become stronger if we are assuming standard characters for all. this makes more sense that what most fanboys are suggesting.

hulk doesn't have a real win over herc, that makes your point useless. using character vs characters as your entire argument is idiotic. wolverine has beaten hulk, despite being incredibly weak. does this mean wolverine is as strong and durable as hulk? no, thats why using character vs character arguments is dumb. hulk has been beaten by cap and spiderman as well despite being out of their league. spider man has beaten firelord, does this mean spidey is more powerful than firelord? i could go on and on but i hope you got my point. the more popular character normally wins fights, not who logically should win. thats why we have battle forums, to get rid of the stupidity involved in most fights and find the logical answer. if we are assuming standard levels herc definitely is on par with hulk despite what the fanboys think. i know someone like worldbreaker is out of herc league like how skyfather herc is out of hulks league. thats why it is a maybe and debatable. simply saying it is a fact without proving it in any way possible is as good saying nothing.

please tell me you didnt just say hulk is physically above surfer.

1. I didn't say it didn't happen, just I didn't recall it. if you could provide some proof (scans, issue #'s, etc.) that'd be appreciated. I've heard this claim many times but no evidence .

2. It doesn't matter what Thor's done, as far as lifting. In direct comparisons (i.e. Hulk actually going directly against Thor) Hulk has proven physically superior. Thor has better lifting feats than Thanos or even Galactus. Are you sayng he's stronger than them, too?

3. Wolverine has beaten Hulk, with the help of Wendigo (who's already on par with Savage Hulk.) He's also only done so ONCE, while the rest of their fights show Hulk is clearly above him. Hercules doesn't have the same feats as Hulk nor does he as good when they fight one on one or he has help. Bringing up SMvFL proves nothing, especially if you ignore the context of that fight, which you did. And I'm not using single fights to show who's stronger, but rather, their entire history.

4. Yes, Hulk IS physically above Surfer. I can provide direct comparisons, if you'd like (there are a few.)

#36 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby:

  1. The incredible hulk-hercules unleashed #1
  2. wow, you seemed to ignore my entire argument and replace it with your own ludicrous argument. "it doesn't matter what thor's done, as far as lifting", yes it does. This is the whole basis as to how you judge a characters power levels. We use feats to judge a characters limit and their power levels. thor is capable of of lifting planet weights making him equal physically to hulk. Thor does not have better lifting feats than galactus or thanos, you're lying for majority of your argument
  3. wolverine has also beaten hulk without the help of wendigo. according to your argument i could say wolverine has a better durability during these fights because thats what happens during the majority of their history. Whether you choose to believe it or not wolverine vs hulk is a close fight majority of the time with wolverine actually getting a few wins. the only time hulk was clearly above was during wwh which is the anomaly during these fights.
  4. Hercules has feats to show he is on par with hulk. im beginning to think you know nothing on hercules. hulk does not dominate during their fights like you keep claiming. nearly every fight ends in a draw and no side has a win so you can't claim hulk dominates every fight.
  5. Spiderman vs firelord proves the fact the popular character wins regardless of who he is fighting. spider man dumps water on a energy construct, thats bad writing
  6. No hulk is not. surfers durability triumphs hulks and strength is close but surfer can easily amp himself making himself stronger.
#37 Edited by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@80sbaby:

  1. The incredible hulk-hercules unleashed #1
  2. wow, you seemed to ignore my entire argument and replace it with your own ludicrous argument. "it doesn't matter what thor's done, as far as lifting", yes it does. This is the whole basis as to how you judge a characters power levels. We use feats to judge a characters limit and their power levels. thor is capable of of lifting planet weights making him equal physically to hulk. Thor does not have better lifting feats than galactus or thanos, you're lying for majority of your argument
  3. wolverine has also beaten hulk without the help of wendigo. according to your argument i could say wolverine has a better durability during these fights because thats what happens during the majority of their history. Whether you choose to believe it or not wolverine vs hulk is a close fight majority of the time with wolverine actually getting a few wins. the only time hulk was clearly above was during wwh which is the anomaly during these fights.
  4. Hercules has feats to show he is on par with hulk. im beginning to think you know nothing on hercules. hulk does not dominate during their fights like you keep claiming. nearly every fight ends in a draw and no side has a win so you can't claim hulk dominates every fight.
  5. Spiderman vs firelord proves the fact the popular character wins regardless of who he is fighting. spider man dumps water on a energy construct, thats bad writing
  6. No hulk is not. surfers durability triumphs hulks and strength is close but surfer can easily amp himself making himself stronger.

1. Yeah, that's not the issue I was talking about. Here's what I was speaking of:

Hercules pummels Hulk with more than two dozen blows to the head in rapid succession yet Hulk is unfazed and casually flexes him off. HULK VS. HERCULES: WHEN TITANS COLLIDE

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/43cf38b88b

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/16e6ccafbc

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/ee5ee1c5ce

IH #322. Avengers are now trying to kill Mindless.

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/462eb268

<-- Mindless has been weakening and dying since before the Avengers arrived.

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/5d0222ad

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/3dc86790

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/cbb1d144

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/69c572bc

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/968abe9e

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/7b8b3b45

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/9411848b

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/7e875d24

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/d37de117

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/91ba0c9d

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/d53fac56

http://mynetimages.com/viewimage/fc20b4ac

A thunderclap sends the Avengers, including Hercules, reeling. IH #404

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/f65ce4f85b

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/5cae3bde63

Hercules wasn't depowered in those instances.

2. No, I didn't ignore anything. Just stating that lifting feats are good for comparison when the characters in question have never fought but not when we have direct match-ups.

And, lying? Really? Tell you what, go ahead and show me any LIFTING feat of Thanos or Galactus that's greater than Thor or Hulk. I'll concede the point if you do.

3. When? While he was amped by Apocalypse's Celestial tech? Cause that's an amp.

4. "On par" means lttle when Hulk's level is dynamic by nature. Again, Hercules, when shown to fight Hulk directly, struggle even with help. Compare how Hulk and Hercules (immortal), whose power had been augmented by the Evolutionary’s evolution chamber, fared against a blast from the High Evolutionary. AVENGERS Annual #17 (scans courtesy of Jonathanos from Herochat):

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/49c822315f

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/128ad155a6

5. No, SMvFL proves it sometimes happens, yes but, again, there was context behind the win there. Plus, it happened once. Hercules has continuously been shown as below Hulk.

6. Marvel disagrees with you (scans courtesy of Jonathanos from Herochat):

The Defenders (Big 4) are trapped inside an energy-depleting Kree field. Only one has the power to break free. DEF vol. 2 #8

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/0d20a28cc8

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/77800d7c42

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/762e2d66f5

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/faa3a1c693

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/c88be1239a

Both the Hulk and Silver Surfer passed through the energy-draining Great Portal leading to Sakaar. Surfer passes out. The Hulk not only remained conscious but still had a lot of fight left in him. IH vol. 2 #95 and 92

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/79a0489a97

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/f97cc57017

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/c290bc6b3a

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/b9958e8ed1

The Hulk saves his fellow Defenders from being sucked into a tear in the fabric of a macrocosm… even when Namor inadvertently rams him. DEFENDERS #3.

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/8e4dd4164e

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/62a280f4c2

http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/2ef2a3a9d6

#38 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby:

  1. Your scans for the most part are irrelevant because it does not show hulk having any dominance over herc. Hulk was in pain when herc hit him and throwing herc or being able to do a thunderclap counts as dominance? You are very confused, especially because herc was able to get good hits in. My favorite is you saying "hulk was unfazed" in your first few scans because hulk has a bloody nose and is fazed, lol.
  2. I've already told what's wrong with direct matchups, according to your logic wolverine has a durability on par with hulk.
  3. Thanos and galactus don't need lifting feats because they mainly use energy projection and other manipulative powers to show their power. But if you insist on strength feats for thanos, he's had the infinity gauntlet
  4. Incredible hulk #340, wolverine beats hulk with no amps. According to your logic wolverine is now stronger than hulk.
  5. You've proved nothing by saying hulk has a definitive edge over herc and thats just an example of inconsistency and bad writing. Hulk has no resistance to matter manipulation and has been shown to to have no resistant to it more times than not. Hulk has been beaten by spider man and cap, does that mean we should hulk powers in their class? No, because thats not what he's been consistently shown to do. Herc has been shown to be in Hulks class whether you like it or not.
  6. Again, you've proved nothing
  7. Def vol 2 #8-they said they took surfer by surprise and they are draining his powers, proves nothing. Planet hulk- They didn't go through the same portal and the one surfer went through was designed to drain him, hulks wasn't. Def #3- This proves nothing. Im going to end this now by showing more impressive feats for surfer.
Cacually blows up a planet and survives it
Casually survives the explosion
Casual sun dip and is fine
Using your own logic against you, here a depowered surfer out muscles hulk
Surfer has a fight in a black hole and the black hole doesn't affect him.
Another sun dip

#39 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@80sbaby: getting wins over a character does not determine their power levels. Hulk may have 2 wins over herc but the aren't genuine wins. Hulks was able to beat a depowered herc, doesnt really count. In wwh, herc gets the upper hand against hulk then stops fighting to allow hulk to pound on him. again, doesnt count.

theres also other factors to a fight other than strength like fighting skill especially when hulk maybe has the strength edge over herc. herc is by far a better fighter which accounts for alot more.

I don't recall Herc being depowered when he fought Hulk, with the help of the Avengers, and barely won. Or when Hulk merely flexed and flung Hercules away.

How did Herc have the upper hand? Herc took way more punishment and 'holding back" doesn't lower his durability.

And you skipped the part where I mentioned Hulk's superiority to Thor, Herc's physical equal.

Despite Herc's better martial skills, he still doesn't have a solo win over the Hulk and is typically shown to struggle against him, even when he has back-up.

There's no "maybe" about it. Hulk IS stronger than Hercules and that's been supported by the books themselves. He simply has more/better feats.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/757444-samsonvs2_super.jpg

#40 Posted by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby:

  1. Your scans for the most part are irrelevant because it does not show hulk having any dominance over herc. Hulk was in pain when herc hit him and throwing herc or being able to do a thunderclap counts as dominance? You are very confused, especially because herc was able to get good hits in. My favorite is you saying "hulk was unfazed" in your first few scans because hulk has a bloody nose and is fazed, lol.
  2. I've already told what's wrong with direct matchups, according to your logic wolverine has a durability on par with hulk.
  3. Thanos and galactus don't need lifting feats because they mainly use energy projection and other manipulative powers to show their power. But if you insist on strength feats for thanos, he's had the infinity gauntlet
  4. Incredible hulk #340, wolverine beats hulk with no amps. According to your logic wolverine is now stronger than hulk.
  5. You've proved nothing by saying hulk has a definitive edge over herc and thats just an example of inconsistency and bad writing. Hulk has no resistance to matter manipulation and has been shown to to have no resistant to it more times than not. Hulk has been beaten by spider man and cap, does that mean we should hulk powers in their class? No, because thats not what he's been consistently shown to do. Herc has been shown to be in Hulks class whether you like it or not.
  6. Again, you've proved nothing
  7. Def vol 2 #8-they said they took surfer by surprise and they are draining his powers, proves nothing. Planet hulk- They didn't go through the same portal and the one surfer went through was designed to drain him, hulks wasn't. Def #3- This proves nothing. Im going to end this now by showing more impressive feats for surfer.
Cacually blows up a planet and survives it
Casually survives the explosion
Casual sun dip and is fine
Using your own logic against you, here a depowered surfer out muscles hulk
Surfer has a fight in a black hole and the black hole doesn't affect him.
Another sun dip

1. I didn't say dominance, but he does look better when, even with assistance, Hercules struggles to bring down Hulk (and more than once.) And the fact that he was able to so casually get Herc off of him also speaks to their comparative strength. Hercules was even surprised by the ease in which Hulk did it.

2. Except there are more examples of Wolverine being below Hulk, even in direct match-ups. And the fights between Hulk and Wolverine you were speaking of had context behind them. You ignored that. I'm not.

3. We're talking about proving Thanos or Galactus are physically stronger than Thor based on lifting feats, remember? What form of attacks they primarily use is irrelevant. But I'll take this as your concession that they do not, in fact, have better lifting feats than Thor. So, my question is, how do you know they're stronger, physically, than Thor? And no, having the IG is NOT a strength (specifically, lifting) feat. How could you even try to make that claim?

4. No, according to me, that's a one-time outlier. I'm not saying one feat trumps all others, so not sure why you keep brining it up.

5. Actually, Hulk has very good showings against matter manipulation. In fact, I believe your claim that it works "more often than not," is false. But let's prove it. You post all the many examples of matter manipulation working on Hulk and I'll post the times it failed. You go first.

6. In Defenders, they ALL were being drained. So, yeah, Hulk proved superior to Surfer there. In Planet Hulk, there's only one Great Portal and it wasn't "designed" for Surfer. They passed thorugh the same gateway and Hulk took it better than Norrin.

Your examples prove nothing because: The weakest version of Hulk has survived enough destructive force to destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth. Hulk has taken Human Torch's Nova flame on multiple occasions (Nova flame is as hot as the Sun.) Surfer wasn't de-powered during Planet Hulk. He was weakened and mind-controlled but Hulk was also weaker. So, no, you're not using MY logic at all. You're posting out of context scans. So, again, Hulk has either matched or shown directly exceeding Norrin, physically, as I stated. And he's done so on multiple occasions, unlike Wolverine defeating Hulk or SMvFL.

#41 Posted by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@80sbaby: getting wins over a character does not determine their power levels. Hulk may have 2 wins over herc but the aren't genuine wins. Hulks was able to beat a depowered herc, doesnt really count. In wwh, herc gets the upper hand against hulk then stops fighting to allow hulk to pound on him. again, doesnt count.

theres also other factors to a fight other than strength like fighting skill especially when hulk maybe has the strength edge over herc. herc is by far a better fighter which accounts for alot more.

I don't recall Herc being depowered when he fought Hulk, with the help of the Avengers, and barely won. Or when Hulk merely flexed and flung Hercules away.

How did Herc have the upper hand? Herc took way more punishment and 'holding back" doesn't lower his durability.

And you skipped the part where I mentioned Hulk's superiority to Thor, Herc's physical equal.

Despite Herc's better martial skills, he still doesn't have a solo win over the Hulk and is typically shown to struggle against him, even when he has back-up.

There's no "maybe" about it. Hulk IS stronger than Hercules and that's been supported by the books themselves. He simply has more/better feats.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/757444-samsonvs2_super.jpg

Sorry, not sure what you meant by this?

#43 Posted by Bruxae (12200 posts) - - Show Bio

Cause Herc is a sissy.

Online
#44 Posted by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

survives sun feats isnt Impressive,because even a h-bomb would be hotter than sun core

blows up a planet?energy feats,just like world break hulk fight with red she hulk,both was energy can destroy planet,survives the explosion was good,but bill done it,thor done it

#45 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby:

  1. You keep saying hulk looks better but how? Does hulk look better because he can throw herc? If thats dominance, sorry much better looking in a fight than you need to reevaluate the definition. Both get their punches in and look even, you keep claiming herc has trouble bringing down hulk, but hulk has trouble bringing down herc. That scan provided shows herc stating that hulk is actually beneath him in case you can't tell. It only furthers my point.
  2. More examples, would you like to provide them. the only 1 example I can think of is wwh and besides that they look even since their first fight in wolverine's debut.
  3. I've already told you why they don't have lifting feats, because they don't need them to know their power and strength. There is probably no scans or maybe some obscure one but powerhouses like thanos and galactus don't need lifting feats. I only brought up the infinity gauntlet because of the power gem and unlimited physical strength.
  4. I keep bringing it up because you claim hulk has dominance in every fight with wolverine but it isn't true. I was able to find a scan of the first between hulk and wolverine and guess who wins, Wolverine! Thats now 2 wins for wolverine! Whether you like it or not, wolverine has close fights with hulk showing them to be on par with each other meaning wolverine is just as durable as hulk, maybe more......
  5. Theres are the few i was able to find as of right now. Ill be able to provide more soon.
Is getting manipulated by another source and strange

Dormammu easily transmutes hulk
drains hulk
the most famous of hulk getting drained

6. You're missing the point, surfer was getting drained and was already out. He was basically powerless while hulk wasn't as affected as surfer. It said it was calling surfer so they had a plan ready to capture him and your scans were incomplete because hulk gets taken down easily as well. Lol, surfer was mind controlled during planet hulk now? You people keep making excuses. Surfer powers is the power cosmic, if he can't use that ability, he's powerless. Surfer couldn't access the power cosmic during planet meaning he is powerless. Hulk on the other hand was weakened but not to the extent of surfer because hulk still had his powers while surfer didn't. A depowered surfer was able to outmuscle a weakened hulk, its simple logic.

7. While i admit these scans are not my best they are still better than what hulk can survive. An asteroid is not the same composition as a planet for obvious reasons. Its a lot different going into the sun and staying in it for a few minutes like surfer than hulk surviving johnnys weak nova flame for a second Hulk has not come close to surviving a black hole like surfer did. If my scanner works I have something even better that i know is better.

#46 Posted by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

I don't believe Herc is truly in Hulks league and that might be because he isn't as big a name.

.....Did you just really say this?...

#47 Posted by Dernman (14611 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

I don't believe Herc is truly in Hulks league and that might be because he isn't as big a name.

.....Did you just really say this?...

Please don't tell me you actually think MARVEL's Herc is as big as Hulk. There is a difference between Hercules of myth and the comic character.

#48 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@wolfrazer said:

@dernman said:

I don't believe Herc is truly in Hulks league and that might be because he isn't as big a name.

.....Did you just really say this?...

Please don't tell me you actually think MARVEL's Herc is as big as Hulk. There is a difference between Hercules of myth and the comic character.

Its the same character Marvel did go over and take from the myth and included what Hercules went through in myth, Hercules is Hercules no matter what, sure there may be different showings of how he looks and what he does, but the basic character remains the same.

#49 Edited by Dernman (14611 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer said:

@dernman said:

@wolfrazer said:

@dernman said:

I don't believe Herc is truly in Hulks league and that might be because he isn't as big a name.

.....Did you just really say this?...

Please don't tell me you actually think MARVEL's Herc is as big as Hulk. There is a difference between Hercules of myth and the comic character.

Its the same character Marvel did go over and take from the myth and included what Hercules went through in myth, Hercules is Hercules no matter what, sure there may be different showings of how he looks and what he does, but the basic character remains the same.

No it takes elements but it's not the same characters. In Marvel the gods although called gods are really space aliens from another dimension like Kirby originally reimagined the gods. Regardless though Herc still has never held as high of name value were Marvel is concerned. Herc has never and from what I've seen will not be one of their top names as far as they are concerned.

#50 Edited by Wolfrazer (5939 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@wolfrazer said:

@dernman said:

@wolfrazer said:

@dernman said:

I don't believe Herc is truly in Hulks league and that might be because he isn't as big a name.

.....Did you just really say this?...

Please don't tell me you actually think MARVEL's Herc is as big as Hulk. There is a difference between Hercules of myth and the comic character.

Its the same character Marvel did go over and take from the myth and included what Hercules went through in myth, Hercules is Hercules no matter what, sure there may be different showings of how he looks and what he does, but the basic character remains the same.

No it takes elements but it's not the same characters. In Marvel the gods although called gods are really space aliens from another dimension like Kirby originally reimagined the gods. Regardless though Herc still has never held as high of name value were Marvel is concerned. Herc has never and from what I've seen will not be one of their top names as far as they are concerned.

It is, the bio of him shows. Yes as Marvel is concerned seeing as Hulk is their creation, was that what you were meaning? Or were you meaning in general? I was meaning in general.