I have been dying to do an avatar vs anime CaV though I have noticed a misconception. A common point I see continuously brought up in Avatar characters vs anime threads is that Avatar characters aren't very fast. This is of course ridiculous Avatar characters especially higher up ones are very fast and have many other abilities which enable them to react or slow very fast and powerful characters.
Speed/ Reaction
Plenty of times in the avatar series and the sequel series legend of korra characters have shown the ability to perceive the world in slow motion.
This ability allows the characters to dodge and block many attacks. Avatars can see fast moving attacks and easily react.
Zuko easily swats an arrow out of the airHere Korra redirects a torpedoHere Korra reacts to dozens of attacks at once
Both Aang and Korra have also reacted to explosions at close range.
Edit: More explosive reaction feats.
Airbending
Airbenders have the ability to weave through attacks like a leaf.
Korra is able to weave through a very fast moving deviceHere Korra dodges attacks from three different dirrectionsHere Tenzin dodges multiple sneak attacks easily
Aang is an expert at this andhas proven that he's hard to hit.
Gallery
Aang has been described as faster than the wind and can run FTE and even on water.
Seismic Sense
This specialized earth bending technique created by Toph allows someone to sense and react to a move before it is made. This is instant and the person appears frozen even when in the air.
Notice she side steps before the rock is thrown
Bloodbending
While this will not necessarily speed up a the user, bloodbending can make an opponent seem very fast as every attack will be psychically "nudged" enough for the user to dodge. Amon uses this technique to be virtually impossible to hit.
He is pretty boss
Lightning Reaction
Lastly the highly disputed lightning speed. Many have claimed that lightning bending moves than in actual lightning to that I say proof? Even with that we have one confirmed lightning timer.
Iroh reacts to natural lightning
Also I won't say every character is this fast notice katarra isn't able to even move though zuko can move swiftly to the side.
Overall I think Avatar characters can react (and move for a short time) to at least move FTE and many can be considered supersonic or even hypersonic.
Comment bellow and let me know why you either agree or disagree.
As for speed i would say there somewhere around the neighborhood of Batman,Captain America, Wolverine and Daredevil. There definitely peak human but not very far above it at all. The feats depicted in the gifs and the show are nothing those four guys i mentioned couldn't perform with ease.
As for speed i would say there somewhere around the neighborhood of Batman,Captain America, Wolverine and Daredevil. There definitely peak human but not very far above it at all. The feats depicted in the gifs and the show are nothing those four guys i mentioned couldn't perform with ease.
As for speed i would say there somewhere around the neighborhood of Batman,Captain America, Wolverine and Daredevil. There definitely peak human but not very far above it at all. The feats depicted in the gifs and the show are nothing those four guys i mentioned couldn't perform with ease.
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Dope AMV, Though i would of chose another song. But other wise pretty good AMV.
About the explosions, can you prove that they're going supersonic, let alone hypersonic? Because most explosions actually travel at speeds below the speed of sound, it just depends on the way the explosion occurs. There are two types, deflagrations and detonations. Deflagrations are subsonic (anywhere from 1 to 100 m/s to be specific, often much lower than 100 m/s) and they usually take the form of gas explosions, vapor explosions, and dust explosions. They are also usually quite large (usually larger than detonations) and tend to look like huge expanding fires. Deflagrations occur much more than Detonations. Detonations are the supersonic type, and are often caused by high explosives like TNT, grenades, or C4.
So, what I want you to prove is that these explosions are actually detonations. But first, I'll give my reasons for why the ones shown so far are actually deflagrations, starting with combustionbending.
First, those rings you see around his heat streams? Those aren't the result of their bending breaking the sound barrier (as I've seen argued before), they're rings of superheated air. For instance:
You see that ring? That's the air being superheated. And it's very clear that nothing was being shot at this point, so it wouldn't make sense at all for the sound barrier to be breaking. Therefore, this must be the air being superheated (that's how this form of bending works, IIRC). Plus, breaking the sound barrier looks quite different. It's more like a cone shape rather than a ring actually. Thus, there is no proof that the stream formed with combustionbending travels at supersonic speed.
Second, as combustionbending is just superheating air (a mixture of gases) into an massive expanding blast of fire (also a gas), I think it's safe to say that it's a gas explosion. Meaning that it's a deflagration, and so the explosion is actually somewhere between 1-100 m/s.
As for the barrel explosive, given the explosion's size for a single object and the resulting fire, I'm pretty sure that's also a deflagration.
Plus, the second explosion in this video is caused similar barrels, and we can clearly see the people and objects moving as the fireball expands, like that guy running away, and regular people definitely do not move at supersonic speeds. Starts at about 5:00.
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If a normal guy could move at all during the time it took an explosion to expand, as we can see in both normal time and in slow motion, then obviously the explosion wasn't going faster than sound. It should be pretty easy for more physically capable people like Korra to move fast enough to bend such an explosion.
The other two explosions, however, I do not know the sources of, as the gifs don't show them. But again, given their huge sizes and their appearances, I'm guessing those are deflagrations as well. Plus, since most explosions are deflagrations, the odds also say that they're deflagrations. Not to mention that we have to assume the low end, unless proven otherwise of course.
Overall, given how slow deflagrations are, it would make sense for anyone with even above average human level speed to react to and bend fast enough to avoid harm from them. It should be relatively easy for peak humans to pull off. So, since these are all most likely deflagrations, I wouldn't use these explosions as supersonic feats.
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As for seismic sense, I can believe that the sense itself is supersonic, in a way. However, being able to sense things at such speeds does not mean that they can actually react and move that fast. For instance, we can hear things at sound speed, since that's how hearing works, but we definitely don't move at sound speed. We can also sense light, given how eyes work, but, again, we are nowhere near LS. Most important here is the sound comparison since, like seismic sensing, it also is dependent on vibrations, just in different mediums. I'm not sure how fast vibrations travel in land (I read somewhere that vibrations in solid things like wood are about 13 times faster than the speed of sound in air, but I'm not exactly sure if that also applies to the ground), but regardless, Toph should not be reacting at those speeds. After all, the sensory information, like for any other sense, has to be received, processed, and then you make sense of this info and act accordingly.
Plus, we clearly see the sensing happening in slow motion, practically time stop, even for Toph and Aang, who can only act once the information has finished being received and processed, so I don't see how seismic sense would count as a speed feat. It's just a greatly enhanced sense of touch, not enhanced movements.
In fact, if anything, seismic sensing may be proof that no one in ATLA actually can't react at such high speeds (Mach 13 if it's similar to vibrations in wood), as the characters completely depend on the vibrations to be processed first. The vibrations are even shown to be far too fast for anyone, even the fastest characters, to move even a centimeter. Obviously, no one is anywhere near the speed of those vibrations.
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Also, I know it's been a while, but would you like me to give my response about the lightning thing?
@tsoj: I'll get back to this tomorrow but what lightning thing did you want me to respond to?
No, I meant me responding about the lightning argument we had a while ago in that Redhood vs Aang thread. I think that was it anyway. You probably don't remember it. In hindsight, it probably isn't very important anyway, so I'll just leave it out.
It turns out that I'll probably be really busy soon though, so I likely won't be able to respond to your argument for a while.
About the explosions, can you prove that they're going supersonic, let alone hypersonic? Because most explosions actually travel at speeds below the speed of sound, it just depends on the way the explosion occurs.
This is technically but a little misleading. When we think of explosions moving at subsonic speeds we think of standard everyday uses of combustions and explosions. This includes using a gas stove, most welding tools, gunpowder in guns, burning wood, etc.
There are two types, deflagrations and detonations. Deflagrations are subsonic (anywhere from 1 to 100 m/s to be specific, often much lower than 100 m/s) and they usually take the form of gas explosions, vapor explosions, and dust explosions. They are also usually quite large (usually larger than detonations) and tend to look like huge expanding fires. Deflagrations occur much more than Detonations.
Again Deflagration is more occuring but mostly because it is easier to achieve by an average person and can be used by an average person. Thier is very few uses of combustion but nearly every use of fire is deflagration. Deflagration is akin to firebending as that would be an expanding blast or fireball. Deflagrations that are slow tend to not look like explosions and even fast deflagration like gun powder ignition don't look like standard explosion in high quantities or when slowed down.
Detonations are the supersonic type, and are often caused by high explosives like TNT, grenades, or C4.
The reason I think the explosions are detonations is due to the fact that the are caused by actual explosives. Explosives (bombs) are always faster than the speed of sound. Now since these things are caused by explosives (made mostly by professionals as well they should stand)
prove is that these explosions are actually detonations. But first, I'll give my reasons for why the ones shown so far are actually deflagrations, starting with combustionbending.
First, those rings you see around his heat streams? Those aren't the result of their bending breaking the sound barrier (as I've seen argued before), they're rings of superheated air. For instance:
I actually wasn't talking about those rings that were formed around the beam constantly
Here you can see the sonic boom i was talking about. The flash that appears around the beam for a split second.
You see that ring? That's the air being superheated. And it's very clear that nothing was being shot at this point, so it wouldn't make sense at all for the sound barrier to be breaking. Therefore, this must be the air being superheated (that's how this form of bending works, IIRC. Plus, breaking the sound barrier looks quite different. It's more like a cone shape rather than a ring actually. Thus, there is no proof that the stream formed with combustionbending travels at supersonic speed.
Second, as combustionbending is just superheating air (a mixture of gases) into an massive expanding blast of fire (also a gas), I think it's safe to say that it's a gas explosion. Meaning that it's a deflagration, and so the explosion is actually somewhere between 1-100 m/s.
As for the actual explosion the proof of detonation rather than deflagration. One their is the blast wave you see it and it is needed for a lot of his feats.
In these feats you can definitely tell there are blast waves (deflagration do not generate strong blast waves). Combustion man disintegrates stone and destroys large bodies of water instantly which if it was deflagration would require ridiculous amounts of heat. But it can't even be as the shockwaves and force are humongous. This isn't just a flash fire as high speed deflagration can cause.
As for the barrel explosive, given the explosion's size for a single object and the resulting fire, I'm pretty sure that's also a deflagration.
Plus, the second explosion in this video is caused similar barrels, and we can clearly see the people and objects moving as the fireball expands, like that guy running away, and regular people definitely do not move at supersonic speeds. Starts at about 5:00.
If a normal guy could move at all during the time it took an explosion to expand, as we can see in both normal time and in slow motion, then obviously the explosion wasn't going faster than sound. It should be pretty easy for more physically capable people like Korra to move fast enough to bend such an explosion.
Actually there is a few things wrong here. Firstly let's talk about the guy moving. In the time it took the explosion to go off the guy had taken about half a step. The explosion had to travel the full length of the building and more and the guy didn't finish his step. Secondly the barrels aren't explosives but a fuel the explosion would be the grenade going off which would move at speeds faster than sounds in the Korra video we see there is an explosive device that goes off which she'd also have to react to. There are a few more problems but these are the big few. Overall Korra would have to shield her friends from the shock wave caused by the explosion (which is the deadliest part) and all shock waves are faster than sound (averaging between mach 5 and 8).
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The other two explosions, however, I do not know the sources of, as the gifs don't show them. But again, given their huge sizes and their appearances, I'm guessing those are deflagrations as well. Plus, since most explosions are deflagrations, the odds also say that they're deflagrations. Not to mention that we have to assume the low end, unless proven otherwise of course.
I would guess that they were detonations. Firstly in the Mako gif he was reacting to military grade explosives (definitely detonation) and in the Zuko gif he reacts to a bomb placed on his ship as stated bombs produce shockwaves which move much faster than the speed of sound. Overall deflagrations don't produce huge shock waves, aren't used for weapons and don't typically look like explosions. The evidence suggests these are detonations and Mako's literally can't be deflagration.
Overall, given how slow deflagrations are, it would make sense for anyone with even above average human level speed to react to and bend fast enough to avoid harm from them. It should be relatively easy for peak humans to pull off. So, since these are all most likely deflagrations, I wouldn't use these explosions as supersonic feats.
Again your view of deflagration explosions is a little wrong one of the fastest types of deflagration black powder still looks like it's burning over long distances.
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Regular firebending is much closer to deflagration and even that would be at least incredibly high speed deflagration based on it's speed and power.
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As for seismic sense, I can believe that the sense itself is supersonic, in a way. However, being able to sense things at such speeds does not mean that they can actually react and move that fast. For instance, we can hear things at sound speed, since that's how hearing works, but we definitely don't move at sound speed. We can also sense light, given how eyes work, but, again, we are nowhere near LS. Most important here is the sound comparison since, like seismic sensing, it also is dependent on vibrations, just in different mediums. I'm not sure how fast vibrations travel in land (I read somewhere that vibrations in solid things like wood are about 13 times faster than the speed of sound in air, but I'm not exactly sure if that also applies to the ground), but regardless, Toph should not be reacting at those speeds. After all, the sensory information, like for any other sense, has to be received, processed, and then you make sense of this info and act accordingly.
Plus, we clearly see the sensing happening in slow motion, practically time stop, even for Toph and Aang, who can only act once the information has finished being received and processed, so I don't see how seismic sense would count as a speed feat. It's just a greatly enhanced sense of touch, not enhanced movements.
This seems to be true (for the most part). Though this does help the characters reaction time as they are able to get a sensation quickly and therefore react to it faster than normal. You can see when seismic sense is used the characters are able to react much faster than the attacking characters. Moving in basically regular speed while the other characters are still moving in slow motion.
Again this is seen when Toph beats the boulder by bending at speeds only her and aang can perceive.
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In fact, if anything, seismic sensing may be proof that no one in ATLA actually can't react at such high speeds (Mach 13 if it's similar to vibrations in wood), as the characters completely depend on the vibrations to be processed first. The vibrations are even shown to be far too fast for anyone, even the fastest characters, to move even a centimeter. Obviously, no one is anywhere near the speed of those vibrations.
In the above vid it shows that Toph is able to move casually while the boulder is in slow motion. With peak human characters like Sokka completely missing the attack. Additionally most of my speed argument is reaction speed their are a few travel speeds and attack speeds that matter but reaction is mainly what this is all about.
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Also, I know it's been a while, but would you like me to give my response about the lightning thing?
@jucaslucasa: It's not an anime. Also i always found it weird that people called it a weak verse. It's not DBZ but it's still more powerful than a lot of things out there.
The characters are peak human in terms of speed in pretty much every category with a few dubiously supersonic reflex feats. As a rule though, the setting didn't operate at speeds beyond what a human could reasonably replicate. They can still be threatened by archers and are never depicted with speed beyond human capacity save in very rare situations. Too rare to be considered consistent.
Toph is actually one of the slowest upper tier Avatar characters in the series. Those scenes show the speed of her sensory ability, not her actual movement speed. If you watch your own gif closely you'll see her opponent starts moving again at the same time she starts moving her foot, and by the time speed resumes to normal both of them are moving at the same pace. She's just one step ahead of him because of her sensory move. The Boulder scene never shows both characters on the screen at the same time to properly gauge speed, but given every other feat by Toph in the series it's incredibly unlikely she did her leg move so fast the Boulder was a statue comparatively. She just isn't that fast.
In a way Toph is a bit like a jedi. She uses her earth senses to feel vibrations in the ground and then react to attacks before they are actually fired at her, with gives her the illusion of superhuman reflexes. She is already preparing a counter attack before the opponent finishes his move. That is what the Boulder scene was meant to convey. She stopped his move short before he actually finished by redirecting the ground where his foot was about to land.
When it comes to character speed reflexes are only half of it. Actual movement speed matters too. And in that regard Toph is lacking compared to say, Ty Lee, and Sokka is able to keep up with Ty Lee to some extent.
Most anime go over the top with speed, so it would be hard to find a setting that wouldn't be moving so fast the Avatar team can't perceive them. You might have some luck with Fullmetal Alchemist, just keep them away from King Bradley and anyone in his bracket, as he is perfectly capable of slicing things to pieces before peak humans can even see his hand move.
You'd be better off sticking to other western cartoons because as a general rule western animation is less likely to hand out incredible super speed to characters who don't even have speed in their described power set.
@metaljimmor: western animation isn't nearly as flashy but they can still be fast. For example wakfu, rwby, samurai jack, etc.
@jucaslucasa: The anime thing was a while ago it has evolved since then.
And off the top of my head Avatar as a verse is comparable to hxh, Attack on titan, Sword Art Online, and Fullmetal alchemist. It contains a few powerful haxes in bloodbending and energybending. And has city, mountain and island level god tiers.
Of those you mentioned I'm only familiar with Samurai Jack, and you're right. he IS very fast. But that's because he has consistent feats of blocking fully automatic machinegun fire with his sword and a couple feats that fully display his speed in relation to things falling. He is a very fast character, but he's also an exception to the rule.
I wouldn't put them against SAO characters. Mainly because SAO characters don't operate under the same rules as other fictional verses because their feats are the product of game mechanics. They don't really have durability feats, for example. Kirito can be survive a thousand slashes from one opponent but nearly get one shot by another entirely based on the level of said characters, even though in both cases he is tanking strikes from a sword.
@americanspeeddemon: animated flash is faster than literally everyone not in dbz and flashpoint barry may be faster than dbz verse dudes as well. Off course comics dbz gets god stomped
@kbroskywalker: I wouldn't count the force of an explosion being comparable to that of C4 as a good enough reason for it to be as fast as C4, especially since the materials of these explosions (gas and clay, respectively) are so different and are (apparently) why these different kinds of explosives have such different speeds in the first place, no matter their amount of force (IIRC, a gas explosion can have much more force than a C4 explosion, but the C4 explosion will still be far faster). Them being gas explosions means, AFAIK, that they're the speed of gas explosions, not clay explosions. However, I am no explosives expert, so I could have incorrect information.
Although, TBH I really don't care much about this anymore to do much of a debate, even if I am right. But maybe I'll feel more up to it later.
kbroskywalker and I were dishing this topic out on another thread and I have questions I would like anyone who thinks atla characters can move hypersonic and think the lightning feat is applicable to answer.
Heads up I'm not trying to discredit or lowball these characters. I could not love the series more but I just don't see how they are any faster than humans.
If these characters do in fact move at those speeds then how come it took them a month to get to the north pole? How come they didn't speed their way out of the desert? Are they really bending the elements to move as fast as mach speeds since they can project them faster than themselves? Any answers or opinions why would help as these questions were ignored.
It just seems like because of the lightning dodging some people have twisted the whole show to make it acceptable. I would bet that if this never happened there would be no question that they move at human speeds.
Oh and also where did this "perceive the word in slow motion" come from? Every example is just showing what is happening in seconds but giving us a better visual if I'm not mistaken.
@shepardoakenprime: Well lets see, it took them a month to get to the North pole because its at other end of the world, in the first season we saw Aang use his airbending to speed or run up walls(season 2) but in season one Katara was a novice until the end plus continuous bending across the world would just tire one out, since Aang's the Avatar he could probably speed his way across the world in his air sphere. Also as far as I know no human could react to lightning of any form, the best benders are above peak human, in speed and durability(as seen on the show benders like Aang or Ozai get blasted into rocks many feet away and come away unscaved). But back to speed, Imo benders like Aang can perceive lightning speeds(react to it), but not exactly fighting that fast(Kind of like Thor), in the Avatar state however I would argue that the Avatar can move alot faster like in Aang's fight with Ozai, I would say that the fastest benders are air>fire=water>earth overall.
I'll copy and paste what I said in his OTHER thread where he claimed Avatar characters to be hypersonic.
I see your anger over the Akame Ga Kill thread has spilled over to general discussion. Before your blatant misinformation persists I'm going to cut it right in the bud. I don't want to deal with this becoming a standard thing on the battle forums.
Avatar characters are not superhuman in stats. Not by fictional standards, at least. The term "peak human" is what is applied to them, which basically means they are at the highest level of what people's willingness to suspend disbelief will take them as far as the character being normal human. In other words they are in the same tier as Batman or Green Arrow.
Avatar is actually one of the most consistent shows around. The characters' physicals are well displayed, the art style favors the focus on martial arts over flashy superhuman displays, and any honest fan of the series can easily tell how fast these characters are moving at any given time. A dishonest fan might look to an extremely small collection of feats of them reacting to lightning (only once to true lightning and there's no indication that Iroh responded to the bolt rather than the bolt being brought down by Iroh to discharge the clouds), explosions (A couple times, but not all explosions are supersonic), and a torpedo (not even close to supersonic. More advanced torpedos travel around 250 miles per hour) and claim they are hypersonic+, but any rational person will understand that these are extreme outliers for characters who get tagged by arrows, boomerangs, and giant, steam powered mechas, and who run and jump at normal human speeds consistently through the whole series.
The, again very few, times we see the world slow down is typically tied to Toph's seismic sense, which makes perfect sense as sound waves do in fact move faster than humans. However this isn't super speed, but merely the speed at which Toph or Aang receive information. Normal humans receive information in the same way through sound waves through the air all the time, but we don't consider ourselves supersonic in terms of reaction speed because of it. The other times it's for dramatic effect, like Zuko's big "Noooooooo!" scene when he's intercepting Azula's lightning to save Katara.
In terms of durability one could argue they are beyond peak human as they do get smacked through stone walls a lot. But then so do comicbook peak humans. Batman has been smashed through a few brick walls in his time, and at least once has been shoved face first through pavement by Wonder Woman and had nothing more than a bloody nose. Still peak human, though. Ozai has the only true superhuman durability feat that comes to mind, and that itself is an outlier for the show as a whole.
Strength wise they are solidly peak human. The best feats of raw strength are Zuko breaking a metal chain with a heel kick and deflecting small boulders, but again this isn't something I wouldn't expect Batman to be able to accomplish. I know you think they can move mountains with physicals alone, but that is again quite dishonest. The only characters we've seen do that are earthbenders, which strongly suggests they are earthbending and not using raw physical strength to achieve the result. And even then they can't actually move mountains, just large pillars of stone.
Part of the beauty of Avatar is that the focus was on the martial arts and the bending, not on physical stats. The characters didn't zip around faster than the eye can see or take shortcuts with physicals to prove they were formidable. When you saw Azula fight what made her dangerous in your mind was the choreography and how well she used her moves, not her incredible strength or speed. To insist that Avatar characters have hypersonic+ speed or mountain busting strength is to ignore what the show was about to try and justify their characters winning on the battle forum, and that mentality, I feel, is harmful to the fandom as a whole.
@incursion2: I know it was at the other end of the world, but if they move at even mach 1 it would have just taken them 16 hours so that still doesn't answer my question. To run up the wall he had to run and gain speed iirc and anyone can get a few steps up running at just human speed and don't need to run at sonic speeds to get as high as he did. If he can speed his way around the world with his air sphere then he should have been able to fly circles around Ozai at the final fight and wouldn't spend as much time as he did trying to catch him. I can agree these characters have peak human or slightly above durability as there were consistent showings but the same can't be said for speed. I respect your opinion but as was shown he gets tagged by way slower objects and would make no sense that his reaction time got infinitely better in one episode.
@metaljimmor: Wow, and he just ignored it I'm guessing? That's the most logical explanation possible, definitely more than I could come up with, and some people just still want their favorite the be the most powerful. Wow. Kudos to you though and hopefully others will read it now and reconsider.
kbroskywalker and I were dishing this topic out on another thread and I have questions I would like anyone who thinks atla characters can move hypersonic and think the lightning feat is applicable to answer.
Heads up I'm not trying to discredit or lowball these characters. I could not love the series more but I just don't see how they are any faster than humans.
If these characters do in fact move at those speeds then how come it took them a month to get to the north pole? How come they didn't speed their way out of the desert?
You seem to be confusing travel speed with Combat Speed. Imo they have hypersonic combat speed but the best travel speed is probably Aang's which should put him at subsonic speeds (200-300+ mph).
Are they really bending the elements to move as fast as mach speeds since they can project them faster than themselves? Any answers or opinions why would help as these questions were ignored.
Probably this one is more iffy but throwing things with psuedo telekinesis doesn't have any obvious speeds though some things are seen as being really fast.
It just seems like because of the lightning dodging some people have twisted the whole show to make it acceptable. I would bet that if this never happened there would be no question that they move at human speeds.
Well characters like Sokka can react to arrows casually.
And Aang is a lot faster able to perceive attacks Sokka can't even see
Oh and also where did this "perceive the word in slow motion" come from? Every example is just showing what is happening in seconds but giving us a better visual if I'm not mistaken.
Korra does it most obviously.
Reacts to a point blank explosionDodges a laser that could cross a city in seconds
Here's some more
Aang reacts to an explosionZuko sees lightning bending in slow motion
Additionally if you want to know why i think lightning timing is a hypersonic+ feat here's my reasoning.
Gallery
In these we see the characters react to explosions. Yet we also get an interesting correlation as we see how fast the explosion is moving for the heroes to react and how fast it is moving in actuality which is much faster.
With this we now can look at how fast lightning is in an actual real perspective.
Here we see the lightning shooting past a mountain range and into the sky. Now the minimum mountain height is 1,000 ft. but as seen in the picture below these mountains are much bigger than the smaller ones at least 3-4 times their size.
Overall these mountains are at least 3,000 feet tall and the distance between the edge of the mountains and the edge of the screen is slightly greater than the size of the mountains (3,000+ feet). So the lightning moves approximately 6,000 feet in this scan. So after looking at this I checked the amount of frames it took for the mountain to touch the sky. It took in total 9 frames. Now this scene has a frame rate of 25 frames per second which means the lightning moved 6,000 feet in 9/25 of a second. This is aproximately 16,667.67 feet per second or mach 14.9. Now this is based off of estimates and has room for error, the mathematical estimate you can find here comes to about mach 12.3 so slightly less than mine. Obviously this isn't lightning speed but it is highly hypersonic.
To summarize Sokka can react to sub sonic attacks Aang is subsonic himself and has reacted to supersonic explosions and hypersonic lightning. Korra has reacted to supersonic explosions and High Hypersonic - low Massively Hypersonic spirit cannon blasts. Other characters have reacted to similarly fast objects or can scale to be comparable. The Iroh scene is a bit of an outlier as it's about 10x better than any other feat in the show.
He responded to it, but I don't think he read it. He responded to it by bringing up the same feats (Iroh's lightning and Korra's torpedo) that I addressed in my post as if I didn't already explain why they don't equal hypersonic speed.
@americanspeeddemon: For the first gif he is reacting to the projectile as he is getting ready to block it before it gets to him, and the second...I just don't see how Zuko can possibly have the travel speed, not combat speed, but travel speed to run in front of lightning. Yeah I was more aiming for the people who think he can travel at those speeds so glad we are agreed there.
Probably this one is more iffy but throwing things with psuedo telekinesis doesn't have any obvious speeds though some things are seen as being really fast.
Same thing aimed more for those who thought were hypersonic.
Well characters like Sokka can react to arrows casually. And Aang is a lot faster able to perceive attacks Sokka can't even see
Yes and that is acceptable and makes sense as it is easy for most peak human characters. Also agreed.
As provided by tsoj it is possible the explosion was barely mach 1, not saying it is but I doubt Korra has the reaction time that's above or well above mach 1 especially not having Aangs speed. For the laser she seemed to react to the charge up not when it was fired, she aim dodged it. Same thing for Aang and I just can't even fathom Zuko's scan as there is no explanation for it.
Now great job with finding the speed of lightning in that gif, but are you claiming that to be the speed of lightning in all showings? If so then I respectively disagree because of this:
If you are not then if you feel up for it you can find the speed here like you did previously but don't have to. The problem with your findings is that it wasn't when someone was reacting or dodging it. Here it should be obvious that the lightning speed was highly decreased which makes the previous found speed invalid as it wasn't the speed here or with Zuko. The other problem is that this and Zuko's gif isn't an example of combat speed but travel speed which was agreed they don't move even close to lightning speed nor the speed you found, yet both were able to intercept/dodge lightning easily. So if you do think the lightning was moving mach 14.9 or 12.3 at those times then they would be moving that fast as well. But the way I see it is that the lightning has way too many inconsistent speeds as it changes every time it's shown and in reality they can only react at mach 1 or so at best.
@metaljimmor: Well now we know better lol, I noticed in the Akame thread the first thing he posted was he liked atla better and was the first to say Aang solos so I should have known before I got into that mess.
He is extremely biased against Akame Ga Kill. He made a hate rant thread about it a while back, which is why I didn't bother getting involved in that particular debate. He just really, really hates Akame Ga Kill. Not judging. We all have our tastes. But it doesn't paint him as an unbiased observer.
@metaljimmor: Oh wow okay. Well that explains why he seems delusional with overpowering Aang, but doesn't excuse him devaluing 3 pages of that thread. That makes so much sense now. He just lost all respect as a debater from me.
@incursion2: I know it was at the other end of the world, but if they move at even mach 1 it would have just taken them 16 hours so that still doesn't answer my question. To run up the wall he had to run and gain speed iirc and anyone can get a few steps up running at just human speed and don't need to run at sonic speeds to get as high as he did. If he can speed his way around the world with his air sphere then he should have been able to fly circles around Ozai at the final fight and wouldn't spend as much time as he did trying to catch him. I can agree these characters have peak human or slightly above durability as there were consistent showings but the same can't be said for speed. I respect your opinion but as was shown he gets tagged by way slower objects and would make no sense that his reaction time got infinitely better in one episode.
Moving at mach 1 across the world while bending would just completely exhaust the bender it just is not feasible unless the Avatar state is involved probably even than it would be out of character. Aang ran a ways up the Ba sing se wall, don't think a human could do that. Also many faster comic book characters get tagged by much slower characters and objects all the time, just because your faster does not make you invincible, speed is not everything. Ozai was moving very fast as well, he was no slouch. Once again I would like to point out Thor, he can perceive and react BUT he can't exactly run that fast, kind of like people your reaction to somthing would probably be faster than how fast you can run.
Moving at mach 1 across the world while bending would just completely exhaust the bender it just is not feasible unless the Avatar state is involved probably even than it would be out of character
Okay that makes sense, though Aang seemed to never tire out whenever he was running fast, and all characters. showed to have incredible stamina with how much movement they do per fight.
Aang ran a ways up the Ba sing se wall, don't think a human could do that.
True and wasn't what I was trying to get at, it's possible for someone to get even 10 ft, so Aang running at 100+ mph should have no problem and he even lost traction at the end.
Also many faster comic book characters get tagged by much slower characters and objects all the time, just because your faster does not make you invincible, speed is not everything. Ozai was moving very fast as well, he was no slouch.
I am aware of this and I agree, but most of the time there is some explanation or PIS involved, not all of the time, but if Thor has his game on I doubt he would get tagged by slower objects. Yes Ozai was fast but if Aang can move even faster in that state it shouldn't have been a contest in terms of speed.
Once again I would like to point out Thor, he can perceive and react BUT he can't exactly run that fast, kind of like people your reaction to somthing would probably be faster than how fast you can run.
Thor can actually fly FTL from what I looked up, so it makes sense he can perceive lightning fast and be able to react. Aang can only move 300 mph at his highest (possibly faster) and shouldn't be able to react at lightning speed unlike Thor. Even if he can react that fast, it still doesn't mean he should be able to do anything about it as he needs the speed to dodge which he doesn't.
@shepardoakenprime: You seem like a well rounded respectable user, nice talking about this with you, and yeah if Thor was in game mode all the time he probably wouldn't get tagged half as much.
Peak human in terms of speed and strength imo, except when increased with bending. In terms of durability it can arguably be higher considering there are consistent showings of getting back up after blown through earth for some characters.
