How confusing it must be to be religious in the Marvel Universe

Now this is my first post so please be nice and give fair criticism on how I can improve.

I was reading an Avenger issue the other day and suddenly remembered that there are A LOT of gods in the Marvel Universe. Only off the top of my head there is both the Norse and Greek pantheon of gods, the Christian god and devil, the egyptian god that created Moon Knight and several demi-gods. But then there are also characters like the Eternals, the Celestials, the Beyonder etc, who while not technically gods, still are god-like characters.

My question is, with all these character shown to LITERALLY exist, how does religious characters in the Marvel Universe justify their faith? Whether your Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever, this obviously contradicts at least part of your beliefs. Has it ever been adressed(I don´t have an all-encompassing knowledge of the Marvel Universe so its possible I have missed it)? Do you think it should be adressed? Personally I think it could make for a great mini series for example if handled carefully, since as we all know religion can be a very sensitive subject.

What do you think? Is it a good idea or should they stay away from it? If such a story was to be made, what writer/artist would you like to see on it?

The same goes with the DC universe. There's Zeus (the father of Wonder Woman), the new gods / old gods but also the Monitors, who shape the universe(s) etc etc. It doesn't make sense but hey, it's comics.

I guess DC does have a similar setup, though I dont know as much about them as I do of Marvel(always preferred Marvel over DC) thats why I specifically talked about Marvels side of it. I was hoping for a bit longer of an answer than:"hey, its comics" though :)

Also: How many "normal" people are aware of the gods existence in the DC Universe? As I understand its mostly just the superhuman community, though I could be wrong. In the Marvel Universe you could ask a person on the street and they would know or have seen at least a few of them.

How come I never thought of this? 0_0

It's confusing when they make their existence known.

Someone being god-like does not equal them being a god. Similar, but not the same. Though, I guess it's all perspective, in such a universe.

I loved in The Avengers, from the Cap: “There’s only one God, ma’am, and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that.”

I think for the most part, they don't accept these people as God if that makes sense. They are viewed by the people as extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional beings and not the creators of all that the Christian God and other religion's gods are. There was an exchange in Busiek's Avengers 45 (I believe) between Thor and Firebird (Bonita Juarez is a devout Christian). She basically tells him that he is not her God when they were arguing about Thor wanting to distance himself from mortals because he is growing to attached to those who will perish in a blink of an eye for him.

Thats a great point you make :) I guess that is a reasonable reaction,

Does the Christian god even exist in the Marvel Universe? I mean One Above All might fit the bill but he is certainly not like the mythos. Even Angels and Demons are discussed as being branches of mutants or just extra-dimensional beings

The judeo-christian gods exists but are pretty much never used as to not offend anyone. Lesser deities like angels are used a bit more often.

One Above All has nothing to do with christianity, or any other religion/belief, which many people still seems to believe for some reason.

@perpetr8rmike: I was just assuming so, seeing as we have Mephisto for all intents and purposes is the devil. This "One Above All", is that a character from Ghost Rider?

No he is the one above the Living Tribunal in the Marvel Multiverse.. basically he is how Christians think of God he is All Powerful, All Knowing, and can do anything.

Personally this conflict between the "scientific" explanations for what were originally "supernatural" characters is why I avoid Marvel and DC.

Thor and Asgaard ( within the Marvel U) never has made any sense to me. I think it is basically because of lazy writers who didn't really think out the repercussions of incorporating elements from one view of reality (supernatural) into another (scientific).

I think such cross breeding should be avoided because it can only lead to the denigration of the supernatural aspects of "gods" into the more structured and predictable "scientific" explanation of reality. I also think (for basically the same reasons) that various characters "religious" proclivities should be avoided. Exploring Superman's religious belief system would be ridiculous and in some ways a little disrespectful to actual religions by involving them into such mundane superficiality (ie Don't take the Lord's name in vain, etc) This is even more true of actually using a god as a character.

I also disagree with ascribing scientific explanations to things like traditional Vampirism. That is a deal breaker for me when I read that crap. Vampires don't come out during the day because of the symbolic, supernatural powers of the sun not because of ultraviolet light. Therefore specially formulated sunscreen, silver or garlic based antidotes or ultraviolet ray guns are stupid.

Of course there are smart ways to reframe what was once a supernatural idea (like Zombies) into scientific explanations. But it takes a little more creativity than just the wholesale adoption of a character like Thor and Odin and forcing them into a predominately scientific worldview. It is easy to see the results of the poor planning in all the different ways it has been asked whether or not the Hulk could lift Mjolnir.

They may see them as just another superpowered fellow or they may be thinking with the idea of 'if it bleeds you can kill it'. Thor and herc bleeds a lot so they can be killed and thus and thus god can't be killed so they are not god enough(?). So they want to believe something bigger. While writing about it an idea came to my mind. Seeing them would be a let down. You know you read a book that is so awesome in your mind with your imagination and then they make a movie about the book. So you see a character in the book and you're not impressed 'cause you imagined something better. So that would be like it too. Imagining a god that is stronger may make them feel better.

Lets see if i can address this.

Firstly all Gods in Marvel Earth are born from energy of 1 being and 1 being alone, The Demuirge (which means The Maker), which is the living embodiment of life giving energy

Now this first gave rise to the Elder Gods, then they became bad, and fought against itself.. and yada yada yada.

Important point was it was the same life giving energy that was gave birth to divinity , while the same energy took different form, the from was picked by what men choose to believe.

So how does this help

1. There is but 1 creator of Gods in marvel, whose name simply means maker.

2. It was its own energy that took the form of gods from various pantheon. Intersting is the it was the mind of man that gave it form. For people who believe in a god similar to Norse mythology, had Odin and co, people who shared Hindu belief had Vishnu and Co and so on.

So while these are not your sterotypical gods, and they are not even defined at steriotypical god, its the energy of the maker, given form by man's mind, a man's faith.

I think that by itself is easier to swallow.

@fantasyfreak: Mephisto isn't the devil, the throne of Hell is empty creatures like Mephisto, dormammu and Shuma-Gorath want to take the throne but no one can because he then will be beaten by the other creatures.

Mephisto is not the true devil, or biblical form of devil, in fact marvel has said that time and time again that if there is such a true biblical version of devil it has never been shown on marvel universe.

Mephisto is a class 2 demon, much like a whole lot of Class 2 demon, there are other like him Pluto, Hela, Seth, Satan, Sattanis and other (i could look them all up if you like) none of them are the true devil.

The One Above All in marvel is the embodiment of writer, FF for one have been to heaven, and found that it was marvel headquater and a guy with a pencil decides the fate of all reality in marvel.

Uatu has spent billions of years observing the multiverse, and he's monotheistic

@betatesthighlander1: Just wait, let's change the writer and we'll have him saying something different..

@princearagorn1: but that was written by Stan Lee

seriously, did Uatu ever say something that would ho against that statement?

I should have phrased myself better, I know Mephisto isnt technically the devil in the Marvel Universe, but no matter how much Marvel themselves would want to deny it at any given time all the symbolism and iconography surrounding Mephisto(the fact that he has that as his name in itself says pretty much) makes it pretty clear who he is supposed to be. But I don´t want to argue that any further. Nice discussion you´ve got going :) I think a lot of you raise valid points and I guess its up to each new writer that comes on to a book how they want to tackle it. Now in hindsight I realize it can be good to have many different ways of approaching this instead of just one.

@fantasyfreak: LOL I love this. But you know those Bible Belt Baptist Church nutballs (the really gullible ones). Jesus could come back from the dead if he ever existed and tell them face to face that evolution and other forms of revolutionary science are all very valid and they'd just disown him, murder him and carry on dictating the "Word of Christ" and other alleged Bible Speak over fact. In comic books I expect them to be the same.

@killemall: Demiurge? that sounds very interesting if looked from a Gnostic view and may explain god's inadequacy in marvel.

@Nerx: As a gnostic myself, that is exactly what I thought as well :)

@fantasyfreak: I read the notes, seems interesting

although in topic a blind idiot god who is running the show, no wonder cosmics can fuzzle all over its domain

I agree that a religious person in say the DC or Marvel universe could be very confused as there are actual gods present. For example we dismiss Greek and Norse gods as mythology but I would think that would be more difficult in a world where Zeus and Odin actually walk the Earth from time to time not to mention other gods. I am surprised that no one (at least I do not recall) has based some stories around modern worship of gods. I mean in those universes there is more proof of them then there is of God.

Also when talking about religion in comics there are those that pervert religion to use it for hateful purposes. The best example I can come up with is the Church of Humanity from the X-Men, a group that has the trapings of Christanity but with some of the attitudes of white supremacist groups and radical Christian group but the hate is directed toward mutants. If people started poping up with super powers in the world I could easily see a group like this forming.

Thor and his Asgardian brothers are not gods. Just super beings

I would just assume that God (Christian god) is just above everyone else. God can't be beaten but Thor and celestials can.

Its easier being an atheist in a comic once you've seen it all.

Hasn't the biblical devil already appeared in Marvel??? Lucifer???

Anyways this is a good thread and I too have always wondered what the OP pointed out, but that was until I read these scans of Howard the Duck meeting the Christian God and the Christian God saying ALL GODs have a "share in creation". I have to look for those scans.

You mean non-religious? Because being in a comic would actually debunk atheist beliefs that a higher being does not exist.

That's why I'd live in DC where Yahweh is proven to exist.

@prophetvivec36: well, the other gods exist... Capital G is just better than them.

I approve your idea. I would certainly enjoy reading a well-written series about religion in the Marvel Universe.

it would be quite easy. In marvel there are many Gods for different people, planets and beliefs. In fact most of the worlds religions would be vindicated knowing that gods do exist. most religions would have to retool their teachings to include the existence of many Gods but it would still work.

@prophetvivec36: Not gonna get into that debate here.

@the_stegman: wise of you. He was clearly looking to start something

@prophetvivec36: lol objectively right? Read the thread again. No one was trying to push any agenda or beliefs on others. It was a passive discussion.

You were the one attacking another's belief.

He didn't fall for it. You then used "good". That's called "goading".

Get over yourself guy

@prophetvivec36: lmao you sure you wouldn't? You're clearly capable of being disrespectful on the Internet.

That anonymous keyboard protection working wonders.

Great work!

@nite_nite: and to this I give a thumbs up

@prophetvivec36: lol you have both terms confused. Common mistake for the simple minded. I don't care about your respect. IRL being disrespectful I'd put my hands on you. Honestly. Which is why I brought up your using the keyboards protection to be disrespectful. No harm taken guy

@ablackmask: Thats pointless every religion to have ever been thought of is in the MU

@prophetvivec36: respect on the Internet? Your priorities are screwed guy. But I really chuckled cuz this whole time I thought you was the little white boy behind the keyboard. I didn't threaten you that was a honest statement. Lol I'm really not acting tough I didn't start whatever's going on here. You'll be okay guy