Has Superman had his day?

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Wolverine008

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@sandman_:

I guess the stereotype of Superman being a whimsical character is due to the Donner films. I actually bought into that stereotype until I got into comic books. I'm still not a fan of Supes, but I do know that he isn't a corny/whimsical guy. I guess it's similar to the stereotype of Wolverine (my favorite character) being a typical anti hero who just stabs and cut things. People just have to inform themselves on characters before they make stereotypes about them

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SandMan_

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@sandman_:

I guess the stereotype of Superman being a whimsical character is due to the Donner films. I actually bought into that stereotype until I got into comic books. I'm still not a fan of Supes, but I do know that he isn't a corny/whimsical guy. I guess it's similar to the stereotype of Wolverine (my favorite character) being a typical anti hero who just stabs and cut things. People just have to inform themselves on characters before they make stereotypes about them

That right there is the problem. Not even Post-Crisis Superman was like that.

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New_World_Order

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#53  Edited By New_World_Order
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LeeSensei

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@jedixman said:

Superman, without the marketing, is still the most well known comic book superhero.

So... no.

Second most well known. I'd reckon that Batman is more well known than he is at this point. When it comes to Batman the average person can name more of his supporting cast, more of his villains and just know more about the character because he's always being put out in the public. Superman's pretty close though.

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joshmightbe

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@wolverine08: Sorry man no matter how Wolverine sells he will never be what Superman is, and they shouldn't try to make Superman more like him. His optimism isn't goofy its the entire reason he is a hero, its what lets him see the best in humanity despite all the horrible things we do, its what makes him believe its worth saving and why he will die to defend it. All these people claiming that optimism is his weakness do not understand the character at all, his optimism is why he isn't Zod.

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Wolverine008

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#56  Edited By Wolverine008

@joshmightbe:

I never said that DC should try make Superman like Wolverine. All I said was that DC has to show even though Superman is an optimistic and loveable guy, he is still a serious character.

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InnerVenom123

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The only symbol more recognizable worldwide than Superman's S is the f**king cross.

Superman isn't going anywhere.

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SOG7dc

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I don't think so. I think superman is about to make a come back. he just need what any character needs to be popular. great stories. an animated series to get kids interested, and merchandise. you know what else would make everyone gravitate towards him? a great videogame.

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joshmightbe

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@wolverine08: They have on numerous occasions, Kingdom Come, Birthright, For the Man who has everything, these are very serious stories, he has been placed in more serious stories than anyone in the history of comics aside from Batman, he has a movie where he killed a guy, why is it never enough with people. People say they don't want him to become a dark character but they refuse to admit the hundreds if not thousands of instances of proof against the golden boyscout stereotype exist. What exactly is it going to take for you to consider it a valid conscious effort to prove he can be serious? I'm not being a smart ass here I'm seriously asking because he's done everything aside from actually going full anti-hero (unless you count GA Superman) and its never enough with people.

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Wolverine008

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@joshmightbe:

Frankly, I don't care if Superman is considered dark or not because I do not really like Superman. But if his fans want him to be as popular among young people as characters such as Batman and Wolverine, he'll have to shed the boyscout image that I know from conversations with non comic books fans, still exists. The general public doesn't read stories like Kingdom Come, Birthright, etc. They get their information from things such as movies, and Donner's cornier Superman has shaped their opinion on Superman as a whole.

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SandMan_

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@joshmightbe: Do you think The Donner movies have some influence into this whole stereotype people have with Superman? Was there such a backlash in 2005 with Batman Begins?

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joshmightbe

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#62  Edited By joshmightbe

@wolverine08: I honestly don't care if he's popular among young people, frankly I'd rather the character disappear all together than be turned into something he's not just to meet some arbitrary standard of edginess.

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Wolverine008

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@joshmightbe:

*Sigh* I'm not saying that Superman should be *edgy*, but if he wants to be thought of as a serious hero by the general public like they do Batman, he'll have to shed the boyscout image that the Donner Superman films have cursed him with.

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JLDoom

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@wolverine08: But you said that they should try showing people that he can be a serious character and they did so with Man of Steel, but then you say that the movie got some backlash because that's not the Superman they're used to seeing, so I'm not entirely sure what do you want them to do if the biggest attempt so far wasn't entirely successful in your eyes.

Honestly I don't care much for the younger demographics anyway, the number of kids and teenagers who read comic books has been decreasing for years now.

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Wolverine008

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@jldoom:

Man of Steel got backlash from critics and the general public because it didn't fit their preconceived notion of Superman that they got from the Donner films. That their shows that the whole general public thinks of Superman as a corny boyscout, not just teenagers. Superman still has to get rid of that stereotype.

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MadnessFall

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Yup, Supes is in danger of losing his top spot. He has the unlucky problem of not being marketed as well as other heroes in this era, and his happy and optimistic persona isn't really catching to the people of today (me included). The public seems to gravitate towards tortured, dark heroes like Batman, Hulk, Wolverine, etc.

i rather Superman over all the heroes you named.Batman is kinda over rated he's pretty good but he's not the best.My opinion Superman>Batman>Wolverine>Hulk

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JLDoom

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@wolverine08: But that was their attempt at changing that stereotype so what else do you want them to do?

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Wolverine008

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#68  Edited By Wolverine008

@madnessfall:

I don't care if you like Superman more than you like Batman, Wolverine, or Hulk, or if you think those guys are overrated (which they are not). That's not the point. The point is that the general public doesn't see Superman as a serious hero like they do Batman, Wolverine, Hulk, etc because the iconic Donner Superman has shaped their view on Superman as a whole.

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SandMan_

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@wolverine08: I can see what you are saying. Superman is a serious character. Who is also full of optimism. :D

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Wolverine008

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@jldoom:

They'll have to keep doing stuff like Man of Steel if they want to manage to show the public that Superman is serious. The first time it was quite jarring for the general public, but if Warner Brothers sticks to their serious Superman, the general public will eventually accept that Superman is a serious hero.

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MadnessFall

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@madnessfall:

I don't care if you like Superman more than you like Batman, Wolverine, or Hulk, or if you think those guys are "overrated". That's not the point. The point is that the general public doesn't see Superman as a serious hero like they do Batman, Wolverine, Hulk, etc because the iconic Donner Superman has shaped their view on Superman as a whole.

The only ones who doesnt consider superman as an hero are batman fans and cry for an bad ass jerks.You cant find an better superhero than Superman he's an hope symbol (This said superman is not my favorite).Yeah peoples consider superman as an hero they just mock his underwears(only stupids does that).Sorry for my bad grammar and i hope you got my point here.

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JLDoom

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@wolverine08: Well, I guess so. I was under the impression that was the plan.

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Wolverine008

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@madnessfall:

Batman is my second favorite hero behind Wolverine, are you saying that because I'm a Batman fan I stereotype Superman and call for "bad ass jerks"?

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MadnessFall

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@jldoom:

They'll have to keep doing stuff like Man of Steel if they want to manage to show the public that Superman is serious. The first time it was quite jarring for the general public, but if Warner Brothers sticks to their serious Superman, the general public will eventually accept that Superman is a serious hero.

Ps general public doesnt consider Hulk as an hero they consider him as an giant monster that kick asses.There is a difference between an Monster and an hero.I do consider Hulk as an hero but general public doesnt realy.

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novi_homines

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I'm actually starting to hate the whole dark and gritty thing because everything is going dark and gritty, we need Superman in comics as that beacon of hope and optimism now more than ever if you ask me because if I see one more anti-hero going all Punisher on a villain that is actually less awful than him I think I'll puke and this is coming from an actual Punisher fan.

This!!!

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SandMan_

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MadnessFall

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@madnessfall:

Batman is my second favorite hero behind Wolverine, are you saying that because I'm a Batman fan I stereotype Superman and call for "bad ass jerks"?

When did i call batman fans?I said peoples who only likes batman wolverine and Hulk are cry for an badass jerk(Peoples are jerks not the badass i'm sorry if you didnt understand my thought).Batman is my third favorite dc character behind

1-Flash 2-Superman 3-Batman&Green Arrow are equal in my book.

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MadnessFall

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Wolverine008

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#79  Edited By Wolverine008

@madnessfall:

Oh sorry, it looked like you said "The only people who don't respect Superman are Batman fans who call for bad ass jerks". Sorry for the misunderstanding, it's all good.

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JLDoom

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@madnessfall said:

@sandman_ said:

@madnessfall: @jldoom: @wolverine08: Chill guys. Superman is awesome.

I'm ''chill'' i didnt mean to sound mad or something like that.I'm making an argument i'm not mad lol.

Me neither, I didn't think my posts sounded abrasive. If that's the case, I apologize.

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SandMan_

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@madnessfall: @jldoom: If you ask me, I think that in this cynical times is where Superman is more relevant. That's why he will never disappear.

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Wolverine008

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Guys, I like Superman. He isn't one of my favorites (that's reserved for Batman and Wolverine), but I like and respect him for being the shining paragon of hope that he is, and I want him to succeed. I don't think he should become a "badass" like Batman or Wolverine, but he needs to shed the boyscout image that he has been straddled with ever since the Donner Superman films. The general audience just has to be shown that there is a serious character underneath all that hope and optimism :)

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MadnessFall

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@sandman_ said:

@madnessfall: @jldoom: If you ask me, I think that in this cynical times is where Superman is more relevant. That's why he will never disappear.

There's too many superman fans in the world for him to dissapear.

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MadnessFall

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#84  Edited By MadnessFall

@wolverine08 said:

Guys, I like Superman. He isn't one of my favorites (that's reserved for Batman and Wolverine), but I like and respect him for being the shining paragon of hope that he is, and I want him to succeed. I don't think he should become a "badass" like Batman or Wolverine, but he needs to shed the boyscout image that he has been straddled with ever since the Donner Superman films. The general audience just has to be shown that there is a serious character underneath all that hope and optimism :)

General public doesnt realy matter because most of the general public wont buy an comic.In general culture comics are not an good thing,yes movies are well presented,peoples like it but comics is an whole different thing.Comics have many haters

-Peoples says it for kids (not all but many does)

-Most of the mangas fans hates comics(i dont hate mangas so i dont get the point -_-).

-Etc

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reignmaker

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#85  Edited By reignmaker

Supes lost his top spot to Bats decades ago. He's only number one in the eyes of romantics who are looking into the past at the glory days. That's why Man of Steel wasn't a hit for a lot of people. It's because they don't want Superman to change. And I think it's that inability to change with the times that has ultimately hurt his popularity. Batman hasn't had that problem. He has adapted to the times multiple times, and will very likely continue to do so.

I'm not trying to rag on Superman. He's obviously still popular and in many ways relevant, but I'm just explaining why I don't think he's number one anymore.

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SandMan_

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#86  Edited By SandMan_

@sandman_ said:

@madnessfall: @jldoom: If you ask me, I think that in this cynical times is where Superman is more relevant. That's why he will never disappear.

There's too many superman fans in the world for him to dissapear.

Despite contrary belief, general public does like Superman...Most of them though.

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2chimcha3

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#87  Edited By 2chimcha3

Superman is still alive. MoS is reminding people how great of a character he really is.

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Wolverine008

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#88  Edited By Wolverine008

Supes lost his top spot to Bats decades ago. He's only number one in the eyes of romantics who are looking into the past at the glory days. That's why Man of Steel wasn't a hit for a lot of people. It's because they don't want Superman to change. And I think it's that inability to change with the times that has ultimately hurt his popularity. Batman hasn't had that problem. He has adapted to the times multiple times, and will very likely continue to do so.

I'm not trying to rag on Superman. He's obviously still popular and in many ways relevant, but I'm just explaining why I don't think he's number one anymore.

This is sadly the truth of it all.

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Franchise1590

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Batman id definitely the topdog in the comic world. He casts a shadow so big that other fanbases get insecure and bitter about his success.

Supes is a solid 2nd so I don't think he ever lost his "day". I will say he's been losing ground to Spiderman who's a rough 3rd but Marvel hates Spiderman for some reason soSupes should number 2 for awhile whivh is an amazing place to be.

Superman fans need to accept a change in his character like a more modern darker at times Supes for him to ever overtake Bats again.

MOS has should they won't budge which could open the door for guy like Spiderman or Wonder Woman, or even Wolverine as the years pass.

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ccraft

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You can't really compare sells of MoS to Iron Man 3 and Avengers, because IM has had 3 successful movies and Avengers is sort of like all of Marvel movies put together. But MoS did beat Iron Man 1 which makes more sense to compare these two.

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