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#1 Posted by Ben836 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone wants to know who would in a fight between, Goku

and Superman but, we will do this death battles way, only using different

feats. We also won’t use power levels or power scaling, since death battle made

a good point as to why not too. The battle is based off of Goku’s training and

experience and biology. However, we will use power scaling for techniques Goku

shares with others in the series. If Kid Buu’s Kamehameha can destroy a planet,

and Goku has a more powerful version of the same technique, its safe to assume Goku’s

could arguably destroy something bigger.

However,

Ki is according to Kanzenshuu “Made up of things such as vigor, courage, and

one’s true mind.” It’s essentially life energy. And as Death Battle stated as

well, Ki isn’t magic. Goku can manipulate his Ki into various techniques.

-Ki blasts,

-Destructo disc

-Solar Flare

-Ki barrier

-Ki Cannon

-Spirit bomb

-Dragon fist

-Multiform

-Ki blocking

The spirit bomb only works against evil opponents, but Goku

can absorb its energy.

His most powerful techniques are the Dragon Fist and the

Kamehameha.

Variants of Kamehameha

-Jet: Propels Goku

Bending: Directed in mid air

Super: Planet busting power

Dragon Shot: Shot as spheres

Continuous-Rapid fire

10x-Max output of SSj4 Goku.

Goku also has other uses of Ki manipulation.

-Telekinesis

-Flight

-Ki Sense

-Instant Transmission

-Telepathy

-Mind Reading

(Instant Transmission is actually instant, faster than

light.)

Goku has a finite pool of ki energy but has techniques that

multiply his reserves to increase them.

This technique is the Kaioken.

-Taught to him by the North Kai

-Multiplies ki and physical power

-Too much strain could be fatal

-Amount of multiplication is controlled

-Highest multiplication:20x

(The strain on his body was later negated, when King Kai

stated throughout his whole fight with Frieza’s final form Goku was using the

Kaioken x10. It only strained him when he used the 20x.)

Power Pole

-indestructible

-Expands and Contracts on command

-limitless reach

Flying Nimbus

-Flies at Mach 1.5

Senzu

-Instantly heals any injury

-Restores Ki

Transformations

-Great Ape: Base power x10

-Super Saiyan: Base power x50

-Super Saiyan 2: SSJ1 x2

Super Saiyan 3: SSJ2 x4

Super Saiyan 4: GT Goku’s SSJ3 x10

Goku can in fact breathe in space, as evidence will be his

new movie. Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods.

ENTER SUPERMAN

Superman’s power source is the sun. He uses the sun to

constantly absorb power.

-Yellow sun increases his power

-Red Sun slowly decreases his power

-Blue Sun doubles his power

The closer his is to the sun, the stronger its effect.

After a sun dip or charging in the sun, Superman was able to

effortlessly move planets.

He has super senses such as:

-Super Hearing

-X-ray vision

-Telescopic vision

-Theta vision

Super abilities

-Flight

-Super Strength

-Super Speed

-Healing Factor

-Super Breath

-Arctic Breath

-Heat Vision

(Heat vision drains his solar power, quickly especially when

amped.)

Infinite Mass Punch

-Acceleration to near light speed creates a relativistic

mass

-Impact equivalent to 10 Octillion Megatons

-Uses a lot of energy from Superman

-Easily destroys a planet

-Speed Force regulates durability if necessary

(In comparison, the Tsar Bomb the Nuclear device ever tested

only had an impact of 50 megatons. In order to equal Superman’s infinite mass

punch, it would take 200 septillion Tsar Bombs.)

Genius Intellect

-Super Brain

-Perfect Photographic memory

-Technological Genius

Taught Kryptonian knowledge by Jor-El

Martial Arts

-Torquasm Rao and Torquasm Vo

-Enhanced senses

-Mental protection against mind tricks and psychic powers

Superman can withstand 10 Octillion tons of force.

(Anything like that 10 supernovas’ feat is PIS, if it were

10 Supernova’s it would’ve destroyed the moon.)

The strength needed to pull a planet in a vacuum is .001 of

its mass.

The earth Weighs in at 6.6 Sextillion tons. This means

Superman is powerful enough to lift 6.6 quintillion tons.

Superman was timed and was able to fly to the sun and back

in under two minutes which is 9.4 billion km/hr. or 3.9 billion miles/hr.

According to Batman, Superman can fly at 17 billion

kilometers per hour. But no math behind it.

All of Superman’s abilities have been measured but Goku’s

aren’t.

After watching Death Battle’s calculations of Goku’s

strength I noticed they used one of the gag feats as a way to accurately

measured Goku’s strength. Goku’s best strength feat is arguably in episode 234,

when he threw a cube of Katchin. In DBZ Katchin was said to be the densest

metal in the universe. Our densest true

metal osmium, weighs 1350 lbs. per cubic foot. That cube was at least 250 cubic

foot and Goku was in base form. Do the math that comes out the 168 tons without

Super Saiyan. Multiply that by 50x for SSJ, then that x2 for SSJ2, then that by

x4 for SSJ3. This puts us at 67,500 tons in SSJ3 in the Buu Saga.

But

what Death Battle did and forgot was that, between the point Goku became SSJ3

and he discovered SSJ4. Goku trained, a lot. It was over 10 years and Goku was

able to fight a being who was equal to his SSJ3 form in the Buu Saga in base

form.(Evidence is the 28 Tenkaichi Budokai, Goku vs. Uub who is as powerful as

Kid Buu.) This would mean through training

for 10 years, Goku was able to surpass his limits and become as powerful as he

used to need transformations to achieve. However, Goku still has the ability to

use these transformations and they would multiply his new strength by their

respective multipliers. If Goku can now lift 67,500 tons in base form then you

multiply that by 50x, then x2, and then x4 for SSJ3. We have now, 27,000,000 or

27 million tons. Now, you can do the 10x for SSJ4 which would put you at

27,000,000,000 or 27 billion tons. Using Goku’s highest end feat, we find he is

far stronger than Death Battle made him out to be but still less than Superman.

But if you wanted, you could multiply this x20 incase Goku used the Kaioken or

factor what it would do if he absorbed a spirit bomb.

Now for Goku’s speed. Again they use base Goku’s feats all

the way from the saiyan Saga to use for GT. Everyone knows Goku’s base form is

stronger is the Frieza Saga than the Saiyan saga. So for all of our purposes

base Goku’s best speed feat is in DBZ episode 85, Goku flew from one side of Namek to the

other. Namek was stated to be 11x the size of Earth and the Earth has a

circumference of 40,075 km. Meaning, Namek would have a circumference of

440,825 km. We know Goku didn’t circle the whole thing, but rather half of it.

So divide that by 2. To get the distance of halfway across Namek which Goku

flew. He flew 220,412 km in only 21

seconds! So to get his speed per second we would need to divide 220,412 by 21.

We get 10,495 km/sec. This was in his base form, so we factor every Super

Saiyan transformations.

SSJ1-524,791 km/sec

SSJ2-10,495,582 km/sec

SSJ3-41,982,328 km/sec

But we cannot just go into SSJ4. Because once again, in the

time Goku discovered SSJ3 and SSJ4 he was able to achieve power of SSJ3 in Buu

Saga in base form. Meaning SSJ3 Goku Buu Saga=GT Goku base form. We know this

because SSJ3 Goku lost to Buu. GT Goku defeated his reincarnation and trained

him. Goku didn’t lose these transformations, and they now multiply his

increased power. So if GT Goku was equal to old SSJ3 Goku in base, then would

use that speed as the starting point.

GT SSJ1-2,099,116,400 km/sec

GT SSJ2-4,198,232,800 km/sec

GT SSJ3-16,792,931,200 km/sec

Now we can go to SSJ4. So we take 16 billion, 792 million,

931 thousand, and 200 km per second and multiply it by 10.

GT SSJ4- 167,929,312,000 km/sec!

That’s 167 billion, 929 million, 312 thousand km per second!

To put that into perspective, light only travels 300, 000 km per second. This

means Goku can fly at 55, 9764 times faster than light!!

Superman may be stronger, but Goku takes the cake for speed.

So comparing these side by side

Strength-GT SSJ4 Goku’s 27,000,000,000tons < Superman’s

6,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons

Speed-GT SSJ4 Goku’s 167,929,312,000 km/sec > Superman’s

17,000,000,000 km/sec

This time I used a measurable feat, without using any assumptions.

#2 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

this sounds a lot like power scaling.

GOSH DARN IT! I'm a fan of both and i freaking hate all these discussions about this! They would never fight unless forced to, which is basically what all the supposed fans are trying to do! jeeez

#3 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

"We'll never have to hear about this again" is officially the biggest lie ever.

#4 Edited by Skunkstein (591 posts) - - Show Bio

DONT POWER SCALE! It doesnt work like that!

@Gambit1024 said:

"We'll never have to hear about this again" is officially the biggest lie ever.

Haha, so true... the forums posts involving Goku and Superman just had a 1000 % rise.

#5 Edited by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

power scaling is not linear to power levels. Sorry. Classic Hulk could brace 150 billion tons. He is about as strong as SSJ4 if your math is legit. But, power scaling doesn't exist in DBZ in a linear fashion. Power Levels are just power levels and do not reflect a linear increase in physical strength or speed. There of course is an increase, but no proof that abilities increase in sequential linear fashion. IE double the power level does not mean double the speed.

Even at 25 billion tons or whatever you calculated it at, its nowhere near Superman in the current era. X20 that for Gokus max potential as a SSJ4, 100x that for the fusion, being very generous as we have no idea if a fusion is really 100x the normal state of just one of the participants, even then, its nowhere near Superman. The speed factor is 100% not linear in scaling at all. Goku and Vegeta could not outrun Buus death attack and pick up gohan and piccolo along with hercule and dende. They only had time to pick up one of them, and if they flew at light speed they can circle the earth a few times. So, power levels for speed and strength do not scale proportionally with power level.

#6 Edited by Ben836 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal: My math is 100% legit. These aren't just powerlevels, these are multiplier for each Super Saiyan form. It was even stated that each forms multiplies multiply speed, strength, durability, etc. I get that powerlevels don't directly correlate to ability, but it was stated they increase his strength and speed just as much. Death Battle put Goku at only 160,000 tons. I know Superman is stronger, but Goku SSJ4 IS that strong.

There is no powerscaling going on in this, unless you think comparing weaker Goku to Stronger Goku wrong. The reason Goku and Vegeta couldn't outrun Buu's attack was;

1.Goku was trying to focus I.T

2. Goku and Vegeta were both weakened and far below their max energy possible, when they did it.

3. I really doubt they are always flying their absolute top speed anyway.

#7 Posted by StudentOfJorEl (121 posts) - - Show Bio

Another dbz fanboy who can get over the lost of his goku religion. Why should we use all of marvel and dc against the dragon ball z universe before you cry.

#8 Edited by Varun_Gopal (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@ben836: Your logic's pretty solid. Only thing that doesn't add up is the circumference calculation. It's actually a lot more complicated than taking 40,075 and just multiplying by 11. If Namek is 11 times the size of earth, it probably means 11 times the volume. Assuming the earth is a perfect sphere (which it's not), and that Namek is also a perfect sphere, the math would look something like this:

Finding Earth's radius

2πx= 40,075 km

x= 6,378.13

Finding Earth's Volume

4/3π*(6,478.13*6,378.13*6,378.13)= x

X= 1.0868499689608e+12

Since Namek has 11 times the volume of Earth, you'd just multiply that number by 11. That's when things start getting tricky

4/3π(r*r*r)= 1.1955349658569e+13

r= 14,184.84379693911

Circumference of Namek

2π*14,184.84379693911= 89,126

Divide that by 2 and it's about 44,563 km. Divide that by 21 and Goku's speed is about 2,122 km/s. Multiplying up to SS4, he can travel about 3,395,200,000 km/s, which is still incredibly fast, and about 11,000 times the speed of light. Doing the math for superman, and putting him even at 9.4 billion km/s, Superman is at least around 3 times faster. However, this all changes if I use a feat where superman flew to the andromeda galaxy in a few hours while fighting Superboy prime. Assuming he took a full 24 hours to do this, (which is likely longer than it actually took), that means it took him just a day to travel 2,538,000 light years (the distance from earth to the andromeda galaxy) which means he travels about 30 light years/ second. One light year is over 9 trillion km, so superman far outclasses Goku's speed in this case. However if we're talking post crisis (because the superman that did that was infinite crisis supes, though you probably know that) their speeds are a lot closer. Good post though, you used actual reasonable feats and really good logic, which is more than I can say for many of these Goku vs Superman threads.

#9 Edited by MeleeGod (96 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku

#10 Posted by Mee09 (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoa... I have to say your math is actually LEGIT. Seriously I can't believe they over looked the fact that Goku AS A KID in GT was more powerful than DBZ SSJ3 Goku. He was probably somewhat depowered being a child too. So he didn't have as much power as he would have had if he had been an adult (which Death Battle portrayed him as). Since Kid Goku (base form) in GT was already above SSJ3 DBZ Goku. Imagine how powerful he'd be at just SSJ3 (as an adult in GT)? Not to mention SSJ4.

I'm actually glad that the other guy above bumped this or I wouldn't have been able to see this. Your calculations about Goku are very accurate. But here is what you have gotten wrong about Superman. For one Goku is slower than Superman as was proven above. But Superman can't effortlessly move planets. He has needed some kind of help to do it in the past. He can probably move them. But far from effortlessly he'd have to try. Also on a side note. Superman is more durable than Goku (as you know). But Goku has more than enough power to hurt him as your math proved (Superman has also been ko'd by moon busting explosion before).

If they fought each other the winner determined would be very circumstantial. Because you'd have to take into consideration the personalities of both characters. They both love their planets and the people on it. They won't do things like charge into the center of the Earth and just blow it up *coughs*Death Battle*coughs* to defeat somebody. Especially if they are good. If they just fought in a completely random encounter they would realize they are both heroes and it would turn into a sparring match. Unless at least one of them is blood lusted there wont be clear winner. If Superman is blood lusted DBZ Goku has no chance. But GT Goku will definitely be able to put up a fight. If Goku is blood lusted Superman might get knocked out trying to calm him down.

Hardcore Superman fans. The reason that a great deal of DBZ fans believe that Goku is a great match for Superman is because of their morals. Believe or not they do have a critical impact on how both of them fight. On top of that. Goku has enough power with his Ki to knock out Superman (it is a first encounter he wont know what to expect until it has already hit him). Has enough speed to keep up with him (in combat). And he has enough striking power to hurt him. If Goku had better (well more consistent) durability it would be an even better match up.

#11 Edited by GoldenOozaru22 (238 posts) - - Show Bio

@varun_gopal: I agree with your math for comparing earth to namek, but I disagree with your speed feats comparisons. You can't necessarily say superman far out matches Goku's speed. Only because superman's feats were in a vacuum, While Goku's were in an atmospheric environment.

Also, superman does not use bukujutsu to fly like goku does, superman uses DC logic and tends to fly faster the longer he flies (especially in space).

when goku flies long distances, he gets slower do to him using his ki because of bukujutsu.

But flight speed is irrelevant in a fight anyways. Combat speed is what matters, and since goku can use instant transmission in a fight, he out classes superman's speed..only in a fight....

#12 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Way too long to read

#13 Edited by GreatCaesarsGhost (3152 posts) - - Show Bio

#14 Edited by Easternwind (3890 posts) - - Show Bio

@greatcaesarsghost: This is , while not completely legit and very lacking, no where near to that level of sheer, wtfedness

#15 Posted by raecinio (92 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman stans will say Superman can beat anyone. To them, he is their god. But unfortunately for them, Superman doesn't hold a candle to Goku, let alone anyone else in the DBZ universe. Superman is strong, yes that is true. Goku is also absurdly strong. The biggest difference between the two is that Goku is one of the best fighters, Superman's fighting skills is equal to that of a random guy on the street. His entire strategy is to dive head first into opponents and start swinging away. That's usually enough in DC where they match Superman against giant robots and such. Even when he goes up against heavy hitters like Darkseid, it turns into a slug fest with no strategy. Goku fighting Superman would be like Bruce Lee fighting the world's strongest body builder. Sure, Superman MIGHT be able to bench press more than Goku, but that has no bearing on a fight. And that's ruling out Goku's ability to just teleport Superman into a red sun system and leave him there in space, asphyxiating to death.

#16 Edited by ariesxmasters (454 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't really judge this one. Their both very inconsistent characters. One minute their Super strong next minute their vulnerable. Super Saiyan Goku can eat punches from Full power Frieza, but Krillen throws a rock at goku head and that hurts him. Supergirl in her comic countless times mentions how she is feeling weak at certain moments, because the sun is not out, but next thing you know Superman is on another planet with no sun at all and he fights at full potential and is fine even though their both kryptonian and need the sun.

#17 Edited by Mrnoital (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

didn't read and don't know why it was bumped, but am satisfied with his saying superman is stronger, and goku faster, still can't say who wins

#18 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11415 posts) - - Show Bio

#19 Posted by Freefa11 (2418 posts) - - Show Bio

I really have a hard time respecting the math of anyone who doesn't seem to understand how to use basic scientific notation or significant figures. It almost always comes across to me as simply trying to dazzle people with the largest string of digits they can possibly come up with.