@lieren: I'm going to kick myself in the face! I found an interview where it is stated that BoG, and by extension everyone in it, is canon but it is stated by Toriyama.... anyway unless you know spanish I doubt you will believe me since it doesn't states that it is canon in the english wiki but it does in the spanish one (I think the universe hates me for some reason).
Also, while he states that his limit is 3 minutes it is explained that he made that limit himself because if he traveled further it would be a risk but it is never expressed that he can't go further, as a matter of fact, the exact words he says (in the spanish dub at least) are: (I will traduce them so you understand) Whis: Goku I can take you three minutes into the past so you can stop Frieza from doing this! Goku: Why not more? Whis: Because it would be a risk!
There, you see? He states that while it would be a risk he doesn't says it is his limit.
@tonking; It's nice to do this with someone who can back up their arguments. And I can understand a little Spanish so I may have found them eventually. If BoG is canon, then there is a definite chance of someone like Whis defeating Naruto, however, your own argument passes me the win on this one. He states that going back further than 3 mins is a risk. If he has set that limit on himself, I highly doubt he will take it upon himself to break said limit.
Therefore, without doing the time travel risk of random paradoxes (I'm assuming that is the risk, just seems the most likely) then Naruto will most likely win, as Naruto can actually negate anything that requires energy in a 70 metre radius due to the TSB, aside from Sage techniques. I believe it possible for Naruto to negate the thought process entirely, because it requires energy, which is a scary thing in its entirety.
The other thing is, even if Whis can match Naruto in Sage mode, which I'm going to go ahead and doubt, Naruto still has both the Kyuubi's chakra and the Six Paths Sage Mode, which I can't actually find a limit for, all I know is that it is a HUGE boost from Sage Mode.
Also, I'm going to go ahead and take into account Trunks' time travel explanation. If Whis' time travel works the same way, it actually wouldn't be the same Naruto he would defeat if he decided to go back 20 yrs or so, as the time travel would just send him back to an alternate timeline, not his own one. What's more is, there is very little time in the Naruto series where Naruto isn't accompanied by someone of a relatively large amount of strength, someone such as Kakashi, Tsunade, Jiraiya or even Hiruzen. Heck, even Yamato is around quite a bit, meaning that if Whis really wants to kill Naruto by going back in time, he would have to go back to a point where he was completely and totally undefended. He couldn't go back to the point of his birth, because the village would be on lock down of some form due to the Kyuubi attack, leaving any remaining shinobi on high alert. He couldn't o it during the time Naruto is in the academy, because of the amount of Chunin inside the academy that would be teaching the other students and protecting them. He couldn't do it while Naruto is under Kakashi's watch, as the guy is a genius in every sense of the word, and with the Sharingan added in, he is a total BAMF. Basically, Naruto would be either too badass or too heavily protected.
I'm going to end this with my conclusion. DBZ is a good show, great fight scenes, strong characters that many people grow to love over time, however, the characters in DBZ are almost always out punched by the characters of Naruto. I mean, look at Naruto in Sage mode! He can throw Kurama, the strongest of the Biju, not counting the Juubi as it isn't a Biju technically. But. But. There is one other thing I want you to consider. Kurama has his entire power divided by Minato when he seals the Kyuubi's Yin half into himself, taking more than half of the Kyuubi's power into the Shinigami with himself. All of that, and yet, Kurama is still powerful enough tooverpower Naruto's mind several times with his own chakra, simply due to how oppressive it is. In Naruto, Kurama is considered a natural disaster, something that actually cannot be stopped, just countermeasured. Kurama is said to be able to flatten mountains and cause tsunami's with a flick of a single tail. There just isn't enough power in the universe to defeat Naruto. Yet.
@lieren: Very well then. I'll admit defeat. Naruto is in fact stronger (For now). I must agree with one of your older comments "Naruto is a badass, Goku is a badass".
You have even conviced me to go and watch/read the series again (I left it around episode 50 of Shippuden). Your comment stole the words from me, "there is no one. Yet." but I highly doubt it will continue like that for long. The reason is: Dragon Ball is getting a new manga/series which I suppose will give Goku a little more leeway in things.
And you're right, this has been fun. I hope we can do this again.... if you are on a discussion, send me a message and we'll see how to undermine other people. I think this has been fun because we're actually debating instead of the usual: Give fake data, be proven wrong, insult and say that you're right and repeat the process.
@tonking: Don't let the naruto fans get the better of you. I could easily win a debate with Goku over naruto as could MANY other DBZ fans here on CV.
Goku massively outclasses him. But I REALLY hate dealing with Narutards
You have stated twice that me and several other people on this thread are 'Narutards.'
1. We are not Narutards, in fact, I like the DBZ series much more than I do the Naruto series.
2. You said that Goku could take on Naruto, Madara, Sasuke and Kaguya. Do you have any idea what has been posted on this thread? Go back to page three and read all of the calculations that I went through to prove that Naruto beats the crap out of Goku, no matter what the power up. Heck, I believe Naruto can defeat Whis with some difficulty.
3.You say that you could easily win a debate, as could many other DBZ fans. Prove it to me. Beat me in a debate, prove to me that my calculations are wrong. If you can do that, then I will give in and admit that Goku can defeat Naruto. However. If you are going to make such bold statements and not bother backing them up, get the hell off of CV.
@lieren:First off bro, I have read the entire Naruto manga and watched very episode of the manga (same goes for DBZ). And I actually dislike both shows in quality of characters and plot, but love both for nostalgic purposes. I DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, dislike Naruto, but I HATE narutards. Debating for naruto is awesome, he's become incredibly powerful lately, but not on the Superman/ Goku tier. I'm sorry it's just that simple.
Goku > Naruto
for starters I didn't mean Goku could defeat Sasuke, Kaguya etc. etc. at the same time I was simply saying he could defeat any single opponent in the Narutoverse is all. My bad there bro.
Also, I didn't call anyone but you a narutard. my first post was a joke. Calm down. Call me a DBZ wanker for all I care (despite me being the furthest thing from it).
Now let's get into some debunking.
203,280 tons.
Cool number. That's pretty strong but not when compared to Goku or Superman. Your very quick to use the term filler when debating against Ssj4 (which I agree isn't canon at all) but then neglect to consider that the arc where Goku is in other world tournament IS ALSO FILLER. Thus can't be counted at all.
Goku has caught and thrown ENTIRE ISLANDS. in base form without even using Kaioken.
But this doesn't even matter because how much you can lift doesn't equate to how hard you can punch. Goku's punches are MUCH more effective than anything Naruto can muster.
Let's look at BoGs Ssj3 Goku shall we?
Goku punches a hole clean through King Kai's planet. Remember King Kai's planet has a density of 10x's earths gravity. Meaning Goku ws punching A HOLE in a planet MORE dense than earth. Where as Naruto's punches are large crater level at best.
Heck Goku had Frieza spitting up blood with ONE PUNCH.
This is the same Frieza who survived a planet exploding, with no energy, WHILE SEVERED AT THE TORSO. And yet one punch and Goku FLOORS him.
So, Goku in Ssj3 hits at the MULTI-PLANETARY level. Naruto has never come close to continent level physical stats much less multi-planet.
Speed.
You admit yourself that Naruto moves just UNDER the speed of light in sage mode. Let's assume Naruto's speed gets multiplies by 3 in Six paths mode making him just under 3x light speed (being generous)
runs at nearly the speed of light
That's slow motion to Goku. Goku in base form is casually capable of dodging pure Photon beams (light beams) while being sneak attacked.
Heck in DRAGONBALL Goku was already FTL
Outruns solar flare during the 22nd Budokai.
Now we know Goku is ALREADY FTL in DRAGONBALL and since you yourself used the Saiyan Transformation numbers
Super Saiyan makes the user 50 times stronger. That makes his Super Saiyan limit 500 tones per limb, so 2000 tones on his entire body.
then we multiply through the transformation numbers (x50 then x2 then x4) and we come out with 400 TIMES the speed of light if he was ssj3 in DRAGONBALL. Not even considering the power increases in base form from DB to DBZ.
Goku would see Naruslow in slow motion.
Durability
Naruto's skin is peircable by metal objects. Goku in the first episode is well above that. And Bijuu mode and up has moon level durability ABSOLUTE MAX (dare you to prove me wrong here).
Goku shrugs off Trunks Frieza busting sword (remember how durable frieza is)
THIS IS DONE WITH ONE HAND. Way above any amount of durability displayed in naruto anywhere.
Trump card1 (of many)...
The Classic Kamehameha!
Ok so, goku's Kamehameha would obliterate the entire naruto SOLAR SYSTEM.
See that? Cell can bust a SOLAR SYSTEM (we know he's not bluffing due to power level sensing) and goku in ssj3 is at least 4xstronger. Naruto would be turned to ash
Countering technique's
Ki beam spam or telekinesis can easily wipe out mass numbers of clones.
Ki (in high amounts) disintegrates at the cellular level (buu and cell are examples) yet goku has withstood hundreds of high powered Ki blasts, thus his molecular structure is very dense making him resistant to rasenshuriken. and the truth seekers.
Anything else goku would laugh off. Naruto HAS NO FEATS OUTSIDE OF FANMADE CALCS TO SUGGEST HE'S EVEN CONTINENT LEVEL. Goku's durability is into the multi-planetary.
Bro u fail
You used power levels..........
You used VERY shaky calcs and theories
You MASSIVELY lowballed Goku
You claim to be a DBZ fan yet you cant tell what's filler from what's not and you used POWERLEVELS... LOL...
I (according to a guy with less than 100 posts) am not CV material, and am a dumbass for using my God given brain cells
HAHAHA Naruto couldn't defeat any of the saiyans much less Whis
You say I need to leave CV yet you used ZERO actual feats or instances of this Godlike power naruto apparently has but has never shown. CV is based around feats not fanboy calcs/ statements. If you cant grasp this concept I'm not the one that needs to leave.
Dumbass tree hacked down and lit on fire
to all the DBZ fans back home. I just wanna say... IGNORE THE NARUTARDS. im sorry but this guys was far too hilarious not to respond to, I had to...
@tonking your pal was unable to convince me of anything. please read my thorough owning of this narutard :)
@speedster101; You seem to forget that you are said dumbass tree.
For something to move at the speed at light, it means that they disappear from the visible spectrum. Therefore, solar flares and photon blasts are not moving at the speed of light.
A ninja running at the speed of sound (Rock Lee) which is 768 mph, would run at 12,441.6 mph. Naruto, who runs at nearly the speed of light, which is 670,000,000mph runs at 10,854,000,000 mph.
If you actually bothered to read any of my posts, then you would find that I stated Naruto would run at just below 16.2 times the speed of light, not light speed itself. This also means that Naruto is actually lifting 16.2 times the previously stated 203,280 tons, meaning he actually lifts 3,293,136 tons. If you plan on criticising something, at least read all of it.
Next, I believe you are using Death Battle's calcs, as you constantly reference superman throughout this. Death Battle's calcs are BS as the do these calculations while assuming that Goku takes no backlash from his own attacks and feats etc.
I have found numerous different arguments for Goku's base strength, and yet, you provide none. If you are going to argue, provide proof, not a picture. Pictures prove nothing unless you have the means to back them up. You have stated that Goku has superior strength, then prove it. Give me a definite strength.
Another thing that you seem to forget is the Pein arc in Naruto Shippuden, when Pein attacks Konoha. Nearing the end of the battle, Pein uses the jutsu Chibaku Tensei, a jutsu the uses gravity like the rest of the deva path attacks. It was able to overpower the gravity of Naruto's earth, which we have established must be at least 16.2 times that of earth's. Therefore, the gravity of the small moon that Pein created must be stronger than Naruto's earth, and it certainly wasn't bigger, therefore the jutsu at the centre must be denser than that of Naruto's planet. Why is this relevant? Because the jutsu pulls more material from Naruto's earth to increase the gravity of the jutsu, because it becomes bigger. Therefore, Naruto was fighting under the effect of constantly increasing gravity, which he then breaks out of, admittedly using the Kyuubi's chakra, but he breaks out all the same.
I'm just going to put this in now, the only reason I put the power levels in was for a point of reference. You can see that, even if an average Jounin's power level was that of 1, the 3rd Raikage was able to fight off 10,000 of them and Naruto was able to defeat that man without even a scratch, and that was only technically 1/1000 of Naruto because it was one of his 1000 shadow clones.
In response to countering techniques, you forget about the Truth Seeking Balls, which can negate any energy, and certain other things like immortality, aside from Sage mode techniques.
You say that Naruto has no feats that are even continent level, yet you fail to realise that the Elemental Nations are technically counted as a supercontinent. If you look at something such as a Bijudama, you can see the destructive capabilities. In the Naruto manga, the Juubi's bijudama is shown as only half of a visible explosion, with a huge curve along the land, showing that the bijudama is actually reaching around the world. Say that nothing in the Naruto manga could damage a continent, I dare you.
Just to prove that Naruto is a planet buster, and has more than enough power to destroy a freaking DIMENSION, which I have already stated happens in the Naruto manga whilst he fights Kaguya, I am going to do the calculations for the Rasengan after this.
Naruto: The Last proves that Naruto can survive falling from the moon and hitting the Naruto Earth, which I have already stated to be 16.2 x more intense on the ol' gravity. Without using Sage mode. I have already proven that Naruto can survive planets being piled on top of him, technically being inside of said planet while more and more debris piled up, making the Chibaku Tensei technique more powerful gravity wise.
Goku was unable to be pierced by metal objects WHILE IN SUPER SAIYAN! If you are going to try and convince me of something, be right why don't ya?
Sage Mode also adds that durability. The times that Naruto was pierced by metal, which I can remember, are Pein, whose chakra rods disrupt energy, meaning that Sage mode was disrupted around the area that it pierced. The other times I remember where by chakra enhanced weapons, such as Sasuke's lightning enhanced Kusanagi.
You say that Goku's Kamehameha can destroy the entire Naruto solar system. That wouldn't really make a difference as, somehow, shinobi can breath in space. Another thing is, as previously sted, is that Naruto destroyed a DIMENSION by flaring a TINY PORTION of his chakra. Goku hasn't done that and I doubt he will. Naruto has been shown in the manga to outrun instantaneous travel, therfore, he has to be faster than... Instant. Goku simply cannot beat that.
Here is another problem in your argument. You say that Cell could destroy a solar system and we know this because of power level sensing. Wait a second, could the mighty Speedster101 have made a mistake? Impossible, he couldn't have just referenced power levels which he himself stated are complete crap could he? No, must be some kind of illusion.
I'm also just gonna go ahead and list the known jutsu that we know for a fact that Naruto knows, though I will remove all of the Anime Only jutsu.
Just there for reference, you can go and look at what they do if you can even be bothered to do actual research.
Now for the calculations of the Rasengan:
You say that Naruto was barely capable of continent level destructive power. Lets test that.
First, the Ultra Big Ball Rasengan is stated, by Kishimoto, to be able to grind away a full mountain. Lets use this, ne?
An ultra big ball rasengan has a minimum size of 12 feet across. In Naruto's fight against Kurama, he created 23 clones, each wielding an Ultra Big Ball Rasengan that was at LEAST 25 times the size of Naruto in diameter.
Naruto at that age was 5"6', or 5.5 feet tall.
5.5 x 25 = 137.5 feet in diameter.
137.5 x 23 = 3162.5 feet in diameter. Naruto can create an ultra big ball rasengan at LEAST that wide if he wanted to.
As stated, an Ultra Big Ball Rasengan can carve away a full mountain. The minimum size of a mountain is 1000 feet. A minimum UBBR is about 12 feet across.
1000/12 = 83.33
When a rasengan explodes, it increases in size by over 83 times.
Lets use that calculation on our previous UBBR
3162.5 X 83.33 = 263,531.125
Naruto could EASILY destroy 263.5 mountains in one shot.
But, that's not all. 1 mile = 5000 feet.
263,531.125 / 5000 = 52.7. Naruto's attack would do damage for about 52.7 miles in every direction.
Now, Naruto had split his chakra 23 times whilst doing this, and each clone was using Sage Mode, so each clone was using less than a third of its chakra to create those rasengans.
52.7 x 3 = 158.1
158.1 x 23 = 3636.3
That is the size of the rasengan if Naruto decided to focus all of that chakra into 1 attack, the diameter of the attack would be 3636.3 miles.
The explosive power behind the rasengan can destroy over 5 mountains at once.
The width of the USA is about 3000 miles. The diameter of the rasengan is 3636.3.
The Earth's core is about 3958.8 miles from the surface. The Rasengan is a grinding attack. The Earth is f*cked.Naruto is EASILY capable of destroying his world. Why doesn't he? Allies. What kind of IDIOT uses planet busting attacks when there are allies around?
This fight with Kurama is before the war and well before Naruto's prime. After the war, Naruto has much more chakra, jutsu and tricks to help enhance his strength. Rasengan for the f*cknig win.
Another thing you said is that you didn't mean that Goku could defeat all of these characters, yet I didn't imply this, simply stated your own words back at you, meaning that you actually confused yourself. I'm going to go ahead and question everything you put here, because if you can't understand yourself, you may as well give up on trying to understand others. FYI, calling me a Narutard? Not cool. I'm likely the furthest thing from a Narutard, I actually don't freaking worship the piss that comes from Naruto's d*ck like you seem to think. I have stated before that I like DBZ more than I like Naruto, and I will stick by that, however, even with my love of the series, I'm not blind to the fact that it is more likely that Naruto would win in this fight. There is simply no other outcome. So you can continue to throw out your own shaky theories on Goku's strength and speed and you can continue to debunk Naruto as an inferior fighter, but know this. No matter what you say, what you think, what you belive, I know for a FACT that I am right. All of my calculations where based on solid facts with minor mistakes that were pointed out by others and eventually fixed. You on the other hand seem to be here for the purpose of stroking your own ego, making yourself seem better than you are. You are unable to comprehend the fact that someone else is correct. No matter how many debates you believe you have won, know that there are at least two others you have lost, and know that there is always someone better at this than you.
@lieren: dude as a Naruto fan and as a anime fan in general i thank you for posting you're calc's for the sole reason that i find it absolutely disgusting people keep underestimating the NARUTO series and keep overestimating series like Dragon Ball with the only reason being something like ( No this suck's Goku can beat this guy because he can destroy this he can destroy that or No way Goku can fire a big ass laser and big ass laser bomb( that truthfully is very easy to dodge and you can actually kill him WHILE his charging said attack) so he has to be stronger and can kill anybody easily.... yeah the vast majority of DBZ fan's are THIS retarded while the very very small amount of fan's like tonking over there actually still have a brain in the thing they call a head are VERY few the number of them are so small they themselve's can be considered a endangered species and it is a very good thing they still have a thought process that mainly isn't dominated with something like this (he shot big laser so he stronger other guy dont shoot big laser so he weak and patethic) and are actually WILLING to listen to REASON they are the type of fan's i can talk,argue and debate without suddenly saying something like "die NARUTARD you suck go suck Naruto fucking limp dick for all i care Goku will curbstomp anybody out there" and aslo the guy called fairy tail dragon slayer where you got some if not most of you're calc's is actually still getting flame's from really but hurt retarded fan's of DBZ in that site i even talked to aguy called thugsbunny there he said "I only write and read naruto stories so that i can flame and rant on how awful it is and if you believe that loser fairy and his so called stat sheet's then go dig a ditch and die already wizardkoli stat sheet is the only true stat sheet there now go suck Naruto's dick you NARUTARD" you that was basically what he said to me in rundown version because of how long he wrote that rant when i questioned him on why he hate's Naruto
and as a fun fact about Naruto's durability his durability is truly BULLSHIT level type of durability want proof ? in the last movie Toneri uses a technique that basically take's nearly ALL of the target's Chakra leaving barely enough for said target to support his own life he then uses said stolen energy to blast Naruto through the moon with said blast being so hot it left fiery red and bright yellow lava and liquified rock's on the edge of said hole in the moon with said hole also being massive in size now you may ask HOW this prove's he has BULLSHIT level durability the proof look at Kakashi with Chakra exhaustion he was so weak a CIVILIAN woman can actually KEEP HIM DOWN ON A BED so that basically say's that with Chakra exhaustion you are basically WEAKER than a CIVILIAN and Naruto TANKED A BLAST THAT STRONG WHILE BEING WEAKER THAN A CIVILIAN and while also being in his ABSOLUTE WEAKEST STATE OF BEING and only getting MINOR to MODERATE level's of injury that's him in his absolute weakest state care to imagine what he can tank and take while being in his absolute STRONGEST state go on let that thought hang around and bounce around in you're head let it truly sink in to you're own mind let that specific thought process truly take root and truly imagine what that equal's to to people who say a Kamehameha can kill him then i dare you to re read this and still think that
and here is another fun fact the moon of the naruto world was mostlikely bigger than our entire planet remember it was a prison MADE for the Shinju and HOW BIG was the Shinju again it was atleast as big enough to pick up small mountain's in it's first form heck Kurama while still shrunk was barely the size of it's hand and it swatted both him and Gyuki like they were flies and the other fact that support's this you may ask? There was a entire civilization IN the moon the entire Otsutsuki clan moved IN to the moon to keep a close eye on the Shinju's husk they built entire civilization's there as the time passed that alone PROVE'S that the moon on Naruto was mostlikely bigger than our own planet
@nemises109; Thank you for mentioning that, I had forgotten that particular detail, and it is true, the moon in Naruto is actually bigger than Earth, ours specifically. In Naruto, the moon is actually about a 1/4 of the size of Naruto's Earth, meaning that if I take my previous calculation..
3,191,151,748.89 / 4 = 273,715,864.0194
The moon is over 4 times bigger than the REAL planet Earth. If Goku can survive Ki blasts and Naruto can survive something that is an energy blast that amplifies Ki and Reiyatsu (still not sure on that name), then Naruto's molecular density must be that of a damn God, forget Goku's molecular density.
@lieren: the dumbest argument i saw i guy saying instant teleportation is slower than light speed that's funny wasn't Naruto dodgeing and blitzing somebody with teleporting power's??
@nemises109; Yeah, Kaguya got her ass kicked by Naruto's pure speed. If I had to theorise on what Naruto's speed does, it would probably be something like 'he goes so fast that time moves backwards around him,' or something like that. While that is admittedly cliche, cliches tend to be the most likely. Anyway, while I am unsure of the mechanics behind Naruito's speed, it is fast enough to beat someone going from point A to point B instantaneously.
@midnightdragon18: nope im somebody else entirelythe fact we know the samething just make's it look like were the same person as proof i will tell you right know that i live in the philippine's
@lieren: just wanted to let you know that sage mode was re analyze here you go
I completely forgot about the Toad Statue that Naruto and Pa lifted, with Pa using a single hand to lift it. I also added Goku AND Vegeta's actual physical strengths in ALL of their forms... except Super Saiyan God since I don't know the multiplier for it.
Also, to the IDIOT that said Gamabunta was 660 pounds... I delete your reviews because they are stupid. There are HUMANS that weight that much.
Turns out Sage Mode is STRONGER than I thought, going back over the evidence I noticed something.
The GIANT Toad statue that Naruto lifted with an incomplete Sage Mode is proof of this, because that was about as large as Gamabunta... and Naruto was able to lift it with trouble without the full might of Sage Mode... while Pa was able to hold it up easily with a single arm.
This is trying with REGULAR Chakra
This is trying with INCOMPLETE sage mode
This is Fukasaku
Remember Fukasaku is a centuries old toad and hasn't really used ANY of his sage techniques during that time is he a bit out of practice? highly likely
It was actually around the same size as Gamabunta... but it was made of stone.
Take you're pick they just keep getting BIGGER
The average weight of a boulder that is 1 Cubic Foot is 175 pounds.
55 x 55 x 110
Those are Gamabunta's measurements for his real height, not just what is shown in the anime where his size can be blown out of proportion.
55 x 55 x 110 = 30,250 Cubic Feet (Or 574,992,000 Cubic Inches)
A STONE Toad as big as Gamabunta would be MUCH heavier than Gamabunta himself, because it is literally made of stone.
30250 x 175 = 5,293,750 Pounds
5293750 divided by 2000 = 2,646.875 Tons
Pa would have the weight of about a human child of the same size, meaning Pa would weigh about 11 pounds.
5293750 divided by 11 = 481,250
Pa, in Sage Mode, lifted up over 481,250 times his own weight... with a single arm.
Pa can handle over 2,646.875 Tons of weight on each limb with relative ease.
On Pa's entire body he can handle over 10,587.500 Tons with ease.
Sage Mode is decided by how much chakra you have, and how much Sage Chakra you can create an balance. Naruto has MUCH more chakra than Pa, AND he has also mastered Sage Mode to the same level as Pa. Naruto would be getting a much larger boost than Pa when using Sage Mode,Which is NEARLY INFINITE by the way the sheer amount he has SCARES even Kurama who is a literal INFINITE Chakra Battery so actually Calculating it would most likely be IMPOSSIBLE but for the sake of calculations lets just say that the boost is the same.
Naruto weighs, at age 16 when he mastered Sage Mode, 112 pounds.
112 x 481,250 = 53900000 (Remember this is using Pa/Fukasaku's calcultion's NOT his own)
53900000 divided by 2000 = 26,950 Tons
On each limb Naruto can carry over 26,950 Tons. This is actually pretty accurate, since Naruto is shown easily lifting up Kurama and SLAMMING him on his back without even struggling. Also, Kurama may be MADE of chakra, BUT that chakra took the form of very dense muscle and organs. Kinkaku and Ginkaku survived for a week in his STOMACH, proving that Kurama is flesh and bone... and Gyuki bleeds when injured.
26,950 x 4 = 107,800 Tons
Over his body, Naruto can easily handle over 107,800 Tons of weight without struggling.
107,800 Tons x 2000 = 216,600,000 pounds of weight he can carry
216,600,000 divided by 112 = 1,925,000
In Sage Mode, the amount of Gravity that Naruto's body can take would be over 1,925,000 times that of Earth's gravity.
Planet Vegeta has 10 Times Earth's Gravity
Earth has Earth's gravity
King Kai's Planet has 10 Times Earth's Gravity
Goku trained in 100 Times Earth's Gravity on the way to Namek (With NO weighted clothes)
Grand Kai's Planet has Earth's Gravity
Supreme Kai's Planet has Earth's Gravity
Vegeta at the end of the series trained in 500 Times Earth's Gravity in his base form
(Note: Goku and Vegeta have about the same Base Strength)
Super Saiyan - 50 times base form
Super Saiyan 2 - 100 times base form
Super Saiyan 3 - 400 times base form
Super Saiyan 4 (Not Canon, but here it is anyway) - 500 times base form (10 times stronger than Super Saiyan)
50 x 500 = 25,000 times Earth's Gravity
100 x 500 = 50,000 times Earth's Gravity
400 x 500 = 200,000 times Earth's Gravity
500 x 500 = 250,000 times Earth's Gravity
Goku's Weight - 137 Pounds (Look it up)
Vegeta's Weight - 123 Pounds (Look it up)
Goku Base: 137 x 500 = 68,500 pounds
Vegeta Base: 123 x 500 = 61,500 pounds
68,500 divided by 2000 = 34.25 tons (8.5 Tons per limb)
61,500 divided by 2000 = 30.75 tons (7.6 Tons per limb)
Goku Super Saiyan: 34.25 x 50 = 1712.5 Tons (428 Tons per limb)
Vegeta Super Saiyan: 30.75 x 50 = 1537.5 Tons (384.4 Tons per limb)
Goku Super Saiyan 2: 34.25 x 100 = 3425 Tons (856.25 Tons per limb)
Vegeta Super Saiyan 2: 30.75 x 100 = 3075 Tons (768.75 Tons per limb)
Goku Super Saiyan 3: 34.25 x 400 = 13,700 Tons (3425 Tons per limb)
Goku Super Saiyan 4: 34.25 x 500 = 17,125 Tons (4281 Tons per limb)
I am not calling Goku weak, he can still blow up planets with KI attacks and all of that jazz, but can he beat Naruto in a fist fight while Naruto is in Sage Mode? Simply put... No.
Goku isn't fast enough to get around the Sensory and Predictionabilities of Sage Mode, only the ignorant truly believe Goku is faster than Light, and Goku can NOT sense Sage Chakra because he is NOT a Sage trained in Sage Chakra... that means that Goku has NO way of knowing or avoiding Naruto's Frog Kata techniques... which pack just as much of a punch as Naruto's real punches.
KI is also a bit different, if a KI user takes damage they LOSE KI. If Naruto punches Goku, he loses as much KI proportional to the damage he took from the punch.( This is actual FACT and don't even try to deny it )
Also, Goku is unable to maintain his Super Saiyan 3 for very long because of the limits he has with it in his living body. He can use Super Saiyan 3 twice before he is completely drained.
Sage Mode takes seconds for Naruto to enter... Goku takes longer to enter his more powerful modes.
Naruto's other abilities related to his use of Sage Mode are also more HAX than the raw power techniques that Goku uses to fight with. Goku might be able to destroy a planet, but Naruto can use a Sage Art: Rasenshuriken to destroy Goku at a molecular level.( And with his current mastery of the Rashenshuriken in the Last Movie he can make it with ONE HAND and CONTROL WHERE IT GOES WITH NOTHING MORE THAN HIS WILL OR MIND )
Considering that this is using 16 year old Naruto against 40+ Year Old Goku, not even End of the War Naruto, and Naruto STILL has extreme amounts of untapped potential by this point with PLENTY of other power ups... Goku would be boned in a fight.
Scans for the moon being 4x larger than earth. That's the most retarded wank I've heard this entire year. That's like saying dragon Ball earth is big as Jupiter by power scaling from early db characters .
@flashback0180: and how did you come to the conclusion that it was wank huh unless you're saying the Juubi is ONLY the size of a mountain then yes it will mostlikely be smaller than that the problem Kurama and Gyuki where considered small mountain's by there sheer size and that's Kurama at his REDUCED size and if you look at the chapter where he was split in two you will see that he was atleast shrunk by 5 TIMES his original size ( look at the hand print left behind after he shrunk ) and also look at the scene where he attacks Konoha crouching down and he was already the size of the Hokage Monument imagine how big he is while standing up. And Kurama (at his reduced size)and Gyuki where barely the size of the Juubi's hand and were swatted like they were flies
Here's a fun fact each form of the Juubi got bigger and bigger and also much stronger than the last form it had and the final form we see is so big it's eye alone was the size of a freaking mountain madara was seen standing under it and wasn't even close to the size of one of the tomoe in it's eye
Another fun fact the main thing that supports the theory of the elemental nation being that big the animal's and before you say it no not the summon animal's the regular animal's good example of domesticated animal's akamaru you are an idiot if you think a normal size planet will produce something like that another one that come's to mind the Turtle the GIANT island Turtle CLOSE to the size of the Juubi's first form if not a little bit bigger it has an ENTIRE FOREST ON IT'S BACK with animal's as big as building's and actual summon animal's walking around the Forest of Death come's to mind too it has super size animal's there too
DBZ earth is an actual normal earth HOW in the the name of hell did you think power scaling would make it bigger really enlighten us all of us in this discussion forum we REALLY wanna hear HOW you came up with that theory
Because none of that is consistent , unless you got any scan that says naruto moon/earth is bigger than our earth/moon ALL YOUR CLAIMS ARE PURE BOLLOCKS .
The sad part is you actually think mountains and moon matter , EVERY FEAT in naruto is only a fraction of the mass of earth. The moon it self is 1.24 x 10^-2 % of the mass of earth. Size doesn't imply density . in simpler terms its 1/80th mass of earth
Mass (1024 kg) = 0.0123 ( ratio )
The moon itself is a fraction of earth. and here you are claiming its 4 times the size of earth.
@lieren: I don't need to respond i 'be given LEGIT FEATS of Goku's capabilties not fan calcs that aren't backed up by ANYTHING FROM THE SOURCE MATERIAL.
saying I need more than images of what in taking about is retarded and is what debating on CV is based on.
I'm not the one who needs to leave. Get your 30 post self out of here.
Good day sir.
Now I'm done arguing with you Narutards. Go troll on animevice
@speedster101:So you're saying you are wright because you have a hundred above post while we don't so were wrong wow quite the arrogant one aren't you and those FEATS are legit they were made and calculated USING the source material next time read before saying he didn't use the source material
@flashback0180:you're dodging the question and did you even read stat for how big the Elemental Nation is go back a couple of pages you will see it and did i say OUR earth i meant the Elemental Nation's and let me guess you're one of those type's who believe it's smaller just because it has one continent
@nemises109: lol twisting my words I see? I said u have a low post count meaning that you clearly don't know how CV works it's based on ACTUAL statements and feats within the source material NOT FAN CALCS
Some knower viners are amazing debaters like @attackonshabaz: but you and your alt on the other hand are... Just... *facepalm*
@nemises109: yes thats exactly why i said its bull. i can make up BS calculation on spot , thats like saying piccolos ki blast reached the moon in a second but buus life wrapping ki blast took more than the second ie the surface area of earth is greater than the distance between earth and moon (333,000km)
you can't debunk that because its a actual feat, anyone in front computer can create these kind of feats using inconsistencies which even the author never cared about.
@flashback0180: read the name of this discussion what does it say oh yeah Goku vs Naruto CALCULATION'S and Comparison since you just said you can make calculation's on the spot make one right know on how big the Elemental Nation's is then and only then will i listen to you and also take into fact that the bullshit calculation you say is wrong was made USING facts FROM the manga you know the ACTUAL source material for calculation's in the first place and remind me again why you are here this was a discussion on who was stronger not what was bigger
@nemises109: lol no. It's viable calculations, you are claiming fan calculation as facts, you are basing how fast a person can run and scaling it into feats, the area itself is never mentioned. Also the worst part is you calculated the entire distance using the travel time between the capitals like kanoha and San while using the entire nations area. I've gone through this thread days ago, You have yet to give a single evidence that the moon is 4x larger than the earth. I stand by my word, You're bs calculation is just as legit as my bs calculation.
@flashback0180@speedster101 Okay, when did we ever claim these to absolute facts? If anything you are the ones that are claiming that your calculations are facts, I simply use calculations to determine the most likely outcome of something. I cannot account for all universes being created differently, so I use our universe as a point of reference. I never claimed that the Naruto moon was denser, in fact I would instead assume that it was hollow if not for the Juubi that was contained inside. All I stated was that, based on the source material, the moon would be larger than our Earth, with Naruto's earth being much bigger than ours. You claim that we are twisting your words, yet you do the same to us. You use evidence from posts that were actually changed or corrected and you claim such things as Goku having a larger molecular density, then when we bring up a similar point about Naruto, you dismiss it as BS. Make f*cking sense. This isn't my first debate site you know, I have been on plenty, yet because I post very little on this site, you claim that I am inaccurate or am simply doing things wrong? You seem to be claiming superiority over your own larger amount of posts and belittle us for having less. Do you know what the name for someone who belittles someone because they believe they are superior? That is known as racism. Nice one.
@lieren: THATS THE ISSUE WE DONT USE FAN CALCS I POSTED CANON IMAGES.
Fail.
I never discussed Naruto's debsity and the thing is let's say Naruto's moon is 4x earth, GOKUS FINGER CAN TANK DOZENS OF MULTI PLANETARY ATTACKS IN SSJ1.
In Ssj3 he is MUCH more durable than just four earths exploding.
Debunked.
Also you ARE doing thins wrong. You have thirty posts and ive never heard of you I have more debates under my belt and ANY great debater will tell you, you NEED to support your arguments with FEATS. Again if you don't get this through your thick narutard skull you ARE doing this wrong.
HAHAHAHAHHA Racism? Really? Wow... Immature much? This is nothing close to racism, I didn't belittle anyone I posted here and you responded calling me a dumbass. And don't talk to me about racism, I'm Mexican and can tell you I have gone through racism. I don't belittle YOU I belittle YOUR OPINION and the way you debate for a character.
Now don't respond to me please. If you do I won't respond to you.
@lieren: Lol What? I've read your statements where did you get that Naruto Moon is 4x larger than our Earth? please let me see scans of that.. And I'v been looking all over for the Kishimoto interview (where you said in your earlier comments)where he said that Ultra Big Ball Rasengan is stated, by Kishimoto, to be able to grind away a full mountain, I would like a link to that too..
@lieren: Though I do respect your calculation which tells me your your a true fan(I know someone else who does that with goku but he actually shows scans), but without proof their nothing but an hypothesis.. And before any of you say that I'm someone else alt, I'm not i'm my own person..
lol what ? you kept claiming the moon and earth as "facts" throughout the thread. nice try though. Using fan calculation is BS and using it as evidence like you did is nothing but baseless speculation. And i ask again where in the hell does it say the moon is 4x larger than earth , you are right now writing your own feats into the series. FACTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SOME FANs IMAGINATION
NO , scan for earth being bigger than our earth , your entire argument is absurd and baseless , provide actual evidence ,Not some BS calculation, if you keep persisting on this then i'll be using my biased theories how DBZ earth is bigger than Jupiter . even a 10 year old come up with fan calulations.
You claim that we are twisting your words, yet you do the same to us. You use evidence from posts that were actually changed or corrected and you claim such things as Goku having a larger molecular density,
dafuk.. !????....what are you talking about, I haven't talked anything about goku in this entire thread .
then when we bring up a similar point about Naruto, you dismiss it as BS. Make f*cking sense.
This isn't my first debate site you know, I have been on plenty, yet because I post very little on this site, you claim that I am inaccurate or am simply doing things wrong?
no,The point is your argument is biased and flawed with little to no feats to back it up ,therefore my opinion wont change. i don't care even if you have over 9000 points or you are a mod on the site, hell i'm willing to bet you are a another alt seeing how inactive few users have been.
@flashback0180; A large amount of that was pointed toward Speedster101, just to let you know. Me being an alt? How many people do you see here that write in this style. I have only one account and I am happy with it thank you.
You say my argument has no feats to back it up. Okay, have you read anything I have posted, or are you just an alt as well? Everyone who criticises me seems to forget that I have referenced the manga in some way during my calculations.
To calculate the size of Naruto's planet, I used the map of the elemental nations. In the manga, Kakashi states that it would take 3 days to get from Konoha to Suna. They take their pills and run for that time straight. To calculate Naruto's strength I referenced something he lifted, calculated its approximate mass and then used that to determine his strength. To calculate his speed, which was difficult let me assure you, I used the tools at my disposal to try and find the speed of the average Genin and worked from there. The results may seem shaky, but have you tried to do it? It wouldn't seem so. You say that fan calculations are BS, but do you not see the validity that the majority of them contain? Yes, some may be wrong and yes some may be shaky after being corrected, but it is the best we have to compare with. If you don't want fan calculations, don't bother arguing because that is what this particular thread is about. CALCULATIONS. We are literally here to try and find the most likely outcome via calculations. The Death Battle calcs on the first page of this thread can be counted as fan calcs because they weren't made by AT, yet here you are. If you are going to criticise me, you are pretty much criticising anyone who makes these calculations, including Death Battle.
What Nemises109 says is true. We are here for calculations and comparisons and that is it. If you want to b*tch about me, do it on a thread for b*tching, but I honestly don't care about your opinion of me. I have managed to calculate using the manga, the actual source material, and yet you still state that my calculations are BS. To get Kishimoto stating the rasengan is able to carve away a mountain, read the data books.
You question my age when I say that you believing yourself to be superior and myself inferior racist. Look at the definition. It is quite clear.
@speedster101: I don't care if you respond to this, but look up the definition of racism. You should get what I'm saying here.
You deliberately antagonized me by repeatedly calling me a Narutard. I responded with a watered down insult that wouldn't hurt a 5 year old, and yet you continue to call me something that I don't want and never will want to be a part of. The term Narutard is an insult to me, no matter what others may say. I assure you, the day I become a Narutard is the day I believe that the sun is made of ice cream. Also, you still didn't give me a definite limit for Goku's base form. You do that and maybe then I will concede. One last thing, you are dropping out of the debate, therefore I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore what you have posted so far as, to me at least, what you have said has become irrelevant. Thanks for trying though. I normally enjoy intelligent debates, but this has pretty much devolved into a glorified insult match.
@gsp444; Go and look through the data books. Kishimoto authors them and states that the rasengan can carve away a mountain. As I said before, I have referenced the manga, the source material. It is simply that I am working from a phone here and I can't figure out how to post pictures yet, no matter how many times I'm told it's easy.
@lieren:First off bro, I have read the entire Naruto manga and watched very episode of the manga (same goes for DBZ). And I actually dislike both shows in quality of characters and plot, but love both for nostalgic purposes. I DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, dislike Naruto, but I HATE narutards. Debating for naruto is awesome, he's become incredibly powerful lately, but not on the Superman/ Goku tier. I'm sorry it's just that simple.
Goku > Naruto
for starters I didn't mean Goku could defeat Sasuke, Kaguya etc. etc. at the same time I was simply saying he could defeat any single opponent in the Narutoverse is all. My bad there bro.
Also, I didn't call anyone but you a narutard. my first post was a joke. Calm down. Call me a DBZ wanker for all I care (despite me being the furthest thing from it).
Then you should have said it on the first one NOT here for all we know you're just lying
Now let's get into some debunking.
203,280 tons.
Check the new one and that was done USING Pa/Fukasaku's own stat's not Naruto's own stat's
Cool number. That's pretty strong but not when compared to Goku or Superman. Your very quick to use the term filler when debating against Ssj4 (which I agree isn't canon at all) but then neglect to consider that the arc where Goku is in other world tournament IS ALSO FILLER. Thus can't be counted at all.
Goku has caught and thrown ENTIRE ISLANDS. in base form without even using Kaioken.
What chapter of the MANGA is this?? because aslong as i don't see it for myself this as good as nothing more than filler
What chapter of the MANGA is this?? because aslong as i don't see it for myself this as good as nothing more than filler
But this doesn't even matter because how much you can lift doesn't equate to how hard you can punch. Goku's punches are MUCH more effective than anything Naruto can muster.
Let's look at BoGs Ssj3 Goku shall we?
Goku punches a hole clean through King Kai's planet. Remember King Kai's planet has a density of 10x's earths gravity. Meaning Goku ws punching A HOLE in a planet MORE dense than earth. Where as Naruto's punches are large crater level at best.
REALLY king kai's planet is ten time's denser than earth even though it's hilariously smaller by comparison? i wonder what it's made of because as YOU said it's 10x denser than Earth i wonder what's it made of then because it sure as hell cant be rock's or earth because as YOU said it's 10x denser than Earth
Heck Goku had Frieza spitting up blood with ONE PUNCH.
Read the re analysis of sage mode strenght and keep in mind we calculated his strength USING Pa/Fukasaku's stat's NOT his own we just USED Pa/Fukasaku's for calculation's and for the fact that it would actually be pretty hard to downwright impossible to actually calculate his own
This is the same Frieza who survived a planet exploding, with no energy, WHILE SEVERED AT THE TORSO. And yet one punch and Goku FLOORS him.
So, Goku in Ssj3 hits at the MULTI-PLANETARY level. Naruto has never come close to continent level physical stats much less multi-planet.
Frieza can survive a planet explosion but you do see that there are huge chunk's of of the planet floating around right the chance's of him BEING ON ONE OF THEM was pretty much guaranteed fun fact when a planet explode's it usually explode's out ward's hence the reason for there being chunk's in the first place
Here's a fun fact for you
'Frieza survived Namek exploding while cut in half and weakened.'
That is Semi-true, while he was cut in half... that doesn't really mean much considering that we don't know how fatal that would be to Freiza's species. After Goku GAVE him Ki, he seemed just fine. Also, there were chunks of rock in space so it isn't he couldn't have survived. He could have been on one of those rocks.
Chapter 326 - 327
Speed.
You admit yourself that Naruto moves just UNDER the speed of light in sage mode. Let's assume Naruto's speed gets multiplies by 3 in Six paths mode making him just under 3x light speed (being generous)
runs at nearly the speed of light
That's slow motion to Goku. Goku in base form is casually capable of dodging pure Photon beams (light beams) while being sneak attacked.
Yeah PHOTON beam's that the enemy SEES and you do realize they SENSED the android's were there before they even got to the general area of the android's so sneak attack really it's not a sneak attack if they already knew there were enemie's there surprise yes sneak no the difference surprise you can still react sneak it's like somebody slitting you're throat without you even realizing it
Heck in DRAGONBALL Goku was already FTL
The FACT that they notice it prove's it wasn't FTL
Outruns solar flare during the 22nd Budokai.
Now we know Goku is ALREADY FTL in DRAGONBALL and since you yourself used the Saiyan Transformation numbers
Yeah are you stupid you just showed WHEN he used solar flare not BEFORE show us that first before this this doesn't prove ANYTHING if all you're showing us is this you're not even showing us what happened BEFORE he used it so you debunked you'reself....again
Super Saiyan makes the user 50 times stronger. That makes his Super Saiyan limit 500 tones per limb, so 2000 tones on his entire body.
then we multiply through the transformation numbers (x50 then x2 then x4) and we come out with 400 TIMES the speed of light if he was ssj3 in DRAGONBALL. Not even considering the power increases in base form from DB to DBZ.
Goku would see Naruslow in slow motion.
Durability
Naruto's skin is peircable by metal objects. Goku in the first episode is well above that. And Bijuu mode and up has moon level durability ABSOLUTE MAX (dare you to prove me wrong here).
I'm gonna be much more terrified of the thing CALLED CHAKRA METAL that can channel the user's Chakra Element INTO said Metal you know like a LITTLE wind application to something as SMALL as a HAND KNIFE pretty much CUT THROUGH SEVERAL TREES STOPPING HALF WHY THROUGH STONE
Did you even READ my comment on his Durability here let me show you
And as a fun fact about Naruto's durability his durability is truly BULLSHIT level type of durability want proof ? in the last movie Toneri uses a technique that basically take's nearly ALL of the target's Chakra leaving barely enough for said target to support his own life he then uses said stolen energy to BLAST Naruto through the moon with said blast being so hot it left fiery red and bright yellow lava and liquified rock's on the edge of said hole in the moon with said hole also being massive in size and with the blast itself sending thousand's of GIANT meteorite's hurdling toward's the planet in the process now you may ask HOW this prove's he has BULLSHIT level durability the proof look at Kakashi with Chakra exhaustion he was so weak a CIVILIAN WOMAN not a MAN a WOMAN can actually KEEP HIM FIRMLY DOWN ON A BED WITH NO EFFORT AT ALL so that basically say's that with Chakra exhaustion you are basically WEAKER than ANY CIVILIAN and NARUTO WHILE SUFFERING FROM CHAKRA EXHAUSTION TANKED A BLAST THAT STRONG WHILE BEING WEAKER THAN A CIVILIAN and while also being in his ABSOLUTE WEAKEST STATE OF BEING and only getting MINOR to MODERATE level's of injury that's him in his absolute weakest state care to imagine what he can tank and take while being in his absolute STRONGEST state go on let that thought hang around and bounce around in you're head let it truly sink in to you're own mind let that specific thought process truly take root and truly imagine what that equal's to to people who say a Kamehameha can kill him then i dare you to re read this and still think that
GIVE ME PROOF Goku can survive SOMETHING like what Naruto survived WITHOUT POWER UP'S OF ANY FORM like what Naruto did WHILE ALSO BEING IN HIS ABSOLUTE WEAKEST that MEAN'S no KI no Super Saiyan no Fusion no great ape Transformation no Senzu Bean's no nothing GIVE me PROOF he can TANK something of that scale NO ARMOR NO SHIELD"S AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE THAN THE CLOTHES ON HIS BACK
Oh and Fun Fact it's actually EASIER to DESTROY a moon rather than blasting a hole through it or cutting it in half with destroying it you just have to have enough power to make it explode with blasting a hole through it you have to have enough energy to blast a hole through it with out said moon falling apart or exploding with cutting basically the same only easier you have to have enough power to either to create something on the scale of the moon and cut it or split it apart using nothing more than brute strenght
Goku shrugs off Trunks Frieza busting sword (remember how durable frieza is)
THAT IS A REGULAR SWORD as in MADE OF REGULAR METAL as in a METAL OBJECT what gave you the idea that it was something special?
THIS IS DONE WITH ONE HAND. Way above any amount of durability displayed in naruto anywhere.
Trunk's Sword cut through Frieza, but Goku blocked it with 1 finger'
Chapter 334
Goku even mentioned that Trunks had no intention of fighting him, so Trunks wasn't seriously trying to cut Goku. That makes all the difference
You already provided the picture there's the chapter care to read that entire chapter
Trump card1 (of many)...
The Classic Kamehameha!
Ok so, goku's Kamehameha would obliterate the entire naruto SOLAR SYSTEM.
That would be true IF the world's in Naruto even HAD KI BECAUSE if you look at how Goku make's a Spirit Bomb it pretty much CONFIRM'S thing's like plant,trees,rock heck even water had KI inside them the Human and mostlikely Alien's of the Narutoverse WOULD have KI it's one of the component's to form Ninjutsu Chakra but the plants,rock's,and every other thing in the Narutoverse BESIDE'S Human's,Alien's,Summon Animals,and heck maybe even normal animals there WONT HAVE KI so will it ignite anything ?NOPE ZIP NOTHING so you still wanna know what you Kamehameha would look like if it was fired in the Narutoverse Solar System it would look like...A TINY LINE MOVING IN SPACE that's what it would look like there's literally nothing for it to ignite because that what it just basically does it IGNITES the KI in the atmosphere of the planet itself
See that? Cell can bust a SOLAR SYSTEM (we know he's not bluffing due to power level sensing) and goku in ssj3 is at least 4xstronger. Naruto would be turned to ash
Countering technique's
Ki beam spam or telekinesis can easily wipe out mass numbers of clones.
Truth Seeking Ball's negate ALL FORMS OF MATTER AND ENERGY
Ki (in high amounts) disintegrates at the cellular level (buu and cell are examples) yet goku has withstood hundreds of high powered Ki blasts, thus his molecular structure is very dense making him resistant to rasenshuriken. and the truth seekers.
And WHERE is you're PROOF of that exactly that KI Disintegrates at a cellular level and it's more likely his KI OVERWHELMED the opposing KI
And you don't read do you it wont matter HOW DENSE YOU ARE BOTH OF THOSE ATTACK'S IGNORE ANY FORM OF DURABILITY
Anything else goku would laugh off. Naruto HAS NO FEATS OUTSIDE OF FANMADE CALCS TO SUGGEST HE'S EVEN CONTINENT LEVEL. Goku's durability is into the multi-planetary.
Since WHEN exactly??
Bro u fail
You used power levels..........
You used VERY shaky calcs and theories
You MASSIVELY lowballed Goku
You claim to be a DBZ fan yet you cant tell what's filler from what's not and you used POWERLEVELS... LOL...
I (according to a guy with less than 100 posts) am not CV material, and am a dumbass for using my God given brain cells
HAHAHA Naruto couldn't defeat any of the saiyans much less Whis
You say I need to leave CV yet you used ZERO actual feats or instances of this Godlike power naruto apparently has but has never shown. CV is based around feats not fanboy calcs/ statements. If you cant grasp this concept I'm not the one that needs to leave.
Dumbass tree hacked down and lit on fire
to all the DBZ fans back home. I just wanna say... IGNORE THE NARUTARDS. im sorry but this guys was far too hilarious not to respond to, I had to...
@tonking your pal was unable to convince me of anything. please read my thorough owning of this narutard :)
btw both of you, welcome to the vine...
to actually use anime scene's for proof pretty much debunked and nullified you're little rant here everybody know's that DBZ anime had so much filler in it it may as well have been an entire anime with nothing more than filler and stuff the animator's added in to make the character's look better and the Frieza surviving a planet explosion you do see that there are huge chunk's of of the planet floating around right the chance's of him BEING ON ONE OF THEM was pretty much guaranteed and REALLY king kai's planet is ten time's denser than earth even though it's hilariously smaller by comparison? i wonder what it's made of because as YOU said it's 10x denser than earth i wonder what's it made of then cause it sure as hell cant be rock's or earth because as YOU said it's 10x denser than earth and as for Trunk's sword being unable to cut Goku here is proof from the chapter of the MANGA itself that pretty much counter's that
@lieren: THATS THE ISSUE WE DONT USE FAN CALCS I POSTED CANON IMAGES.
Cannon images from the anime yeahhhh rightttt because the anime is reallllyyy reliable go to the source next time you idiot you know the ACTUAL Cannon Source you know the MANGA so in you're own word's below
Fail.
I never discussed Naruto's debsity and the thing is let's say Naruto's moon is 4x earth, GOKUS FINGER CAN TANK DOZENS OF MULTI PLANETARY ATTACKS IN SSJ1.
Mind telling me what a debsity is first time i heard of that
WOW i never knew Trunks SWORD was a PLANET BUSTER that must either be the Worlds BIGGEST sword or it can do something like Gilgamesh Sword and Tear Apart the Fabric's of Reality itself....hmmm i wonder why he DIDN'T use his PLANET BUSTER SWORD against the Android's of the Future or the Android's of the Past/Present or even against Cell......Oh yeah that's right it's because it was BROKEN by the Android's LIKE IT WAS GLASS hmmm weird i never knew PLANET BUSTER SWORDS would BREAK like that
In Ssj3 he is MUCH more durable than just four earths exploding.
NO his not and WHERE is you're PROOF of this CLAIM of yours
Debunked.
Also you ARE doing thins wrong. You have thirty posts and ive never heard of you I have more debates under my belt and ANY great debater will tell you, you NEED to support your arguments with FEATS. Again if you don't get this through your thick narutard skull you ARE doing this wrong.
HAHAHAHAHHA Racism? Really? Wow... Immature much? This is nothing close to racism, I didn't belittle anyone I posted here and you responded calling me a dumbass. And don't talk to me about racism, I'm Mexican and can tell you I have gone through racism. I don't belittle YOU I belittle YOUR OPINION and the way you debate for a character.
Now don't respond to me please. If you do I won't respond to you.
First Goku creates his own Ki in Kamehameha he doesn't need to draw in Narutos.
Second King Kai's planet is 10x earths gravity. Thus 10x denser if you can't comprehend the difference between surface area and density then go Back to first grade.
Third I gave evidence of Trunks sword cutting Frieza (a multi planetary character) and yet can't stratch Goku. Saying that it broke to the Anrdriods is only a good feat for the androids not a low showing for Trunks.
Fourth ONLY TWO things I posted werent from the manga and one was BoGs that is confirmed Canon. Please learn to count.
Lastly YOU ASK FOR PROOF OF MY CLAIMS YET IGNORE MY FEATS POST OF CANON MATERIAL. Not fan calcs.
Lastly, no u fail. Racism is disliking someone for a reason only based on their race or appearance. I have a reason to think your a retard or a troll because of the moronic way you present yourself.
Now can you and your alt spot talking to me? Thank you :)
@lieren: So far I'v read Naruto data book 1-3 and not in one of the books did did Kishimoto say Naruto Ultra Big Ball Rasengan is able to grind away a full mountain, but you still might be telling the truth since I haven't read the latest book 4 yet(which is annoying to find, but I will find it).. And like I said before your calculations is your Hypothesis without links to back up your calculation people wont believe you in any VS forums..The only one who is allowed to do that without any form of links and for people to believe them are the creators of both anime.. But anyways here the link to Book 1-3(this person was nice enough to put it in a forum, it has stats for everybody and has Kishimoto answering some questiones) http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=497214
First Goku creates his own Ki in Kamehameha he doesn't need to draw in Narutos.
I know that stupid care to read what i wrote again did i ever write anything there that say's he has to absorb or draw KI from Naruto's world that was HOW he made a Spirit Bomb read stupid i did not say that was how he made a Kamehameha i just explained that EVERYTHING in DBZ has KI even inanimate object's where he can draw KI from to make a Spirit Bomb heck it may as well be floating around in the air they breathe in DBZ where as in Naruto's world not everything has KI or in their case Physical Energy only living creature's have them
Second King Kai's planet is 10x earths gravity. Thus 10x denser if you can't comprehend the difference between surface area and density then go Back to first grade.
You're dodging my question just because it's 10x Earth's gravity doesn't mean it's denser a more likely answer it's magic and the question was what is it made of to be denser because as we can clearly see it's made of Earth how is that supposed to be denser
Third I gave evidence of Trunks sword cutting Frieza (a multi planetary character) and yet can't stratch Goku. Saying that it broke to the Anrdriods is only a good feat for the androids not a low showing for Trunks.
Trunk's Sword cut through Frieza, but Goku blocked it with 1 finger'
Chapter 334
Goku even mentioned that Trunks had no intention of fighting him, so Trunks wasn't seriously trying to cut Goku. That makes all the difference
LEARN TO READ
The difference between Goku and Frieza's encounter with Trunk's sword Trunk's INTENTED TO CUT AND KILL Frieza and Goku himself MENTIONED as in HE SAID IT HIMSELF THAT TRUNK'S HAD NO INTENTION OF FIGHTING HIM as in CUTTING HIM or STABBING HIM that ALONE make's a HUGE difference
Fourth ONLY TWO things I posted werent from the manga and one was BoGs that is confirmed Canon. Please learn to count.
The heck do you mean even i know BoG was cannon
Lastly YOU ASK FOR PROOF OF MY CLAIMS YET IGNORE MY FEATS POST OF CANON MATERIAL. Not fan calcs.
Where are you're so called FEAT'S exactly all i see are picture's?? that have no explanation whatsoever
Lastly, no u fail. Racism is disliking someone for a reason only based on their race or appearance. I have a reason to think your a retard or a troll because of the moronic way you present yourself.
Now can you and your alt spot talking to me? Thank you :)
What alt im a different person from lieren you idiot i already admitted that
@nemises109: Again I dont know where your getting at with Trunks not trying to cut Goku.. Your right that Trunks had no intentions of fighting Goku, but you also need to know that a sword is not a blunt object, once a person skin his hit by it by a certain amount of force your getting cut or losing a limb.. Yes Trunks had no intentions of fighting Goku(In my opinion him meaning an all out fight) but the way his ki was flared up(aura) and the speed and force of his sword attacks he was using on Goku i'm he was trying to cut Goku cause if wasn't he would have to tap goku for him not to cut him.
But In Dbz case If your power level is that High(I would say from the trunks saga and up) Sharp objects wont even leave a mark, like when Krillins destructo disc not only didn't cut cells head off he didn't even flinch nor was he paying attention or this
@nemises109: It seems 2 of my post didn't get threw(which is annoying, with finding the scans) but i'll try to make this quick .. The first is Frieza not only was he cut in half his disc also cut one of his arm, but thats part of the case, what you and speedster101 didn't add was he took a full blast head on by Goku( and I know everyone who first saw this episode thought that was what finished frieza off).. But not only did he survive that he was able to survive Namek explosion with his condition.. I dont know what you mean when you say the chunks of rocks have anything to do with frieza survival, but i'm sure you can explain it to me..
@nemises109: First, your correction has several fails that we need to fix so let's start:
In the kamehameha topic you're trying to cancel it using a completely different attack that has nothing to do with it in the first place. While it is true that the Spirit Bomb collects energy from all the living things, the Kamehameha doesn't so trying to debunk it stating that it needs ki from someone or something else is completely wrong. The second thing wrong with your correction is that you state that everything in DBZ has ki which is wrong and if you don't believe me check the re-analisis for Goku vs Superman where it is stated that inanimate objects like bullets don't have ki.
That Freezer were on a "chunk" doesn't mean that the explosion didn't hit him and that is wrong due to the fact that when his father picks him up it is shown that he's floating in the middle of space.
What filler? Dragon Ball has 5 to 7 episodes of filler in every saga. You want to talk about filler? Talk about Naruto's filler... seriously that anime used 13 filler episodes to reach the new arc and you couldn't see 10 episodes without at least one of them being filler.
My recomendation? Stop debating about this until both series are finished and we can get an accurate description of each character powers... yes, one of them is not finished. Try and find which one is not... I'll leave it as a homework for you.
P.S: You really sounded like a hypocrite when you tried to make fun of him for a typo when both your grammar and spelling are that bad.
Take into account that I already admited that Naruto is stronger but I solely tried to correct your correction about Goku and the only time I mentioned Naruto was when I gave an example of what can be considered as a lot of filler and never the character.
@tonking: Thanks for coming back and clearing this up a bit, it basically turned into a d*ck measuring match to see who could throw the worst insult. Also, I know for a fact the Naruto manga has finished and is going to be having a new one coming out, is DBZ getting one too? Can't wait for that then.
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