goku is galaxy buster or multi solor system buster?

Lol as usual a bunch of dragon ball fans arguing over their own conflicting theories they can never actually prove.....

@thenaughtytitan: what arguing are you seeing

@dbzk1999: Look on the first page, homie.....

All above planet busting "feats" were stated and never shown or accomplished. Untill it's unquestionably proven in action there is nothing to suggest DBZ characters are anything more then planet busting. And btw to resolve any confusion in regards to battle of the gods. Whis does say at one point in the movie that if Beers is angered, then the entire solar system (taiyou-kei in Japanese) will be wiped out in no time flat.

So to confuse matters, apparently one of the fansubs for the movie floating around mistranslates Whis' line to say that the galaxy will be wiped out, rather than the solar system. This is a rather egregious error, as taiyou-kei translates pretty directly into "solar system": taiyou=sun/solar, and kei=system. Mostly like the translator had a poor grasp of astronomy, and simply considered "solar system" and "galaxy" to be interchangeable terms.

Cell is a solar system buster, so Goku by extension can logically destroy multiple solar systems.

Why do people believe many of Superman's lifting feats which for all we know could have been lies as we as readers have no way of determining the weights he has lifted usually except when we are told by other DC characters but refuse to believe DBZ characters when they claim they or someone else is powerful enough to accomplish certain feats?

@gustofwind: for starts maybe because Superman's lifting feats were actually accomplished... while DBZ "feats" at least in regards to solar system or galaxy busting were not. And anyway who brought superman into this discussion? This conversation was clearly about goku.

It's just something I've noticed, people just seem to apply different rules to DBZ characters to make them seem weaker. You say Superman's feats were actually accomplished, but a lot of the time we only have statements made by other DC characters to support that.

@gustofwind: Cell never destroyed a solar system... so it's only logical that it's highly unlikely he can and by extension the same goes for Goku. Seems like alot of people forget how big a solar system is... The Sun’s mass alone is equal to 333,060 Earths and makes up 99.86% of the solar system’s mass. Also the Sun is so large in size that approximately 1.3 million Earths could fit inside (if squashed in) or if the Earths retained their spherical shape then 960,000 would fit. Now that's only the sun... Jupiter’s volume is roughly equal to 1,321 Earths, though Jupiter’s mass is equal to just over 317 Earths.. these are simple facts about one star and gas giant that accounts as part of our solar system. So any earth busting feat accomplished ever in DBZ is literally nothing compared to steller masses like these. If hardcore DBZ fans would just use common sense and realize how big a solar system and galaxy are then they would realize how silly they sound when they say things like goku is a solar system or galaxy buster...

@gustofwind: again if the action is completed then it is believable it can happen.. I don't get what is so difficult to understand with some hardcore DBZ fans. A fan can assume all day about their favorite character but when in a debate or discussion forum you can't focus on what was said only. For example there are a few references in DBZ about solar system busting power but alot are a combination of translation error or out right hyperbole. Furthermore there has yet to be a actual cannon or in continuity showcase of raw "solar system or galaxy busting" power. DBZ is rittled with alot of over dramatization when it comes to the explanation of a characters power with hardly any actual proof that any said character can actually accomplish it.

Cell had no reason to lie and if it was so unbelievable that he possessed the power to destroy the solar system then the Z fighters wouldn't have been so worried. Not once is it ever suggested that Cell could have been lying or that he'd have any reason to do so. The fact that characters in DBZ could even destroy planets which is in itself pretty insane supports the view that they could accomplish seemingly unbelievable feats in the future.

@honeyboi_chad: you sir are amazing thank you

@gustofwind: why don't DBZ fans understand hyperbole? Cell thrived on fear and intimidation. He enjoyed scaring people into believing how superior he was to everyone else. As a matter of fact alot of DBZ villains had that similar personality trait. So yes Cell had every reason in the world to over hype his power. A prime example of cell not being solar system busting was durring the final showdown vs SSJ2 gohan. They both attacked each other with full powered Kamehameha waves and logic would say that if cell was indeed solar system busting and Gohan was equal in power if not stronger then the combined power of 2 full powered Kamehameha waves should essentially destroy the solar system 2x over and yet it didnt. It was even fired within earths atmosphere and destroyed cell but not earth or the solar system. So again common sense says that cell was not powerful enough to destroy a solar system.

@jeansummers: lml thx

@commanderandchief: its a battle of gods feat it was in the movie scene were goku lost to lords bill's finger. he punched a hole through a planet that is small and had 10x earths gravity meaning he punched through a highly dense structure that could match a neutron star in density meaniny he punched through the core of something insanely before he went ssj god lost it and his ssj1 became stronger than his ssj3. this is a basis for what we can expect to see in the next movie revival of F.

You expected realistic physics in a show about flying people who shoot beams from their hands? You're analysing DBZ too much and looking for meaning where it doesn't exist, the obvious explanation is what common sense dictates you should believe. Also comments can be said for dramatic effect and still be true, anything dramatic isnt automatically hyperbole. Victory looked like it belonged to Cell when he claimed he had the power to destroy the solar system, everyone believed they were going to die, do you really think Cell aimed to scare them by saying he was going to overkill them?

Can anyone name an instance where Goku blew up a planet and it didn't take 10 minutes of screaming and extreme concentration?

@jodin20723: cell has no actual reason to lie

The last time he used a full power kamehameha, he said that it would only destroy the planet

Why would he change suddenly from "dodge and the earth will be destroyed" to "I can now destroy the solar system" if he didn't think he could do it?

Give a reason that cell would lie

He already had gohan (who was the only one who can stop him) down for the count

He was thinking clearly (unlike vegeta who was in a blind rage)

Nut

Neither

He is an anime character from the DBZ franchise, there is literally nothing out of the realm of possibility for Goku.

All he needs is a villain powerful enough for him to warrant reaching such a destructive scale, a writer to orchestrate the tale and about 26 episodes to build up the final fight.

Goku never blew up a planet.

Ahhhh his problem is he just need to stop trying to apply real world logic to this stuff. The writer has them say these things so the watcher knows they have the power to do it, he basically uses the characters as a mouth piece to get his message across. Of course Akira Toriyama isn't going to actually have them destroying solar systems there would be like no story and everything that was established before the Solar system was destroyed would be destroyed pretty much making a lot of things void, and the story would fall apart. Akira Toriyama even confirmed on the back of the Dbz book that Cell had the power to blow up the Solar System.

This is something called fiction where there is a such thing as a character just being written stronger than another which it sounds like these Dbz characters are written to be. People can nit pick and make excuses all day, but in the end some characters are just written stronger than other, which is fine since even character is challenged properly according to their storyline and universe. Plus as a I stated above it is fiction there are going to be some inconsistencies and things like that.

It's times like these where I wouldn't mind banning dbz in its entirety from the site

@gustofwind: ahhhh yes when terms are loosely thrown around by DBZ fans about a specific character being able to "destroy a solar system or galaxy" with no actual in continuity evidence to prove such claims then yes I will apply real life physics to a show about "flying people" who "shoot beams from their hands". After all such real life physics are applied all the time to other fictional characters who can bench press the weight of earth and shoot heat from their eyes Lol. My point was only to show that DBZ lacks alot of proper proof for every feat above earth busting and yet most DBZ hardcore fans wank all over what is said instead of using common sense and realizing and understanding what Hyperbole is and how it directly relates to DBZ. It just bothers me how so many hardcore fans are so blinded by their fandom that they can't see what is right in front of them. I love characters like Thor, Batman, Silver Surfer, Superman etc. But I'm not gonna ever say that either one of them can do what's clearly above their power scale. But if I wanted too let me just say that batman with prep beats Galactus because batman has said numerous of times before that he is prepared for everything and batman has no reason to lie... see how that makes absolutely zero sense. Same logic applies to Cell and DBZ.

What every here is miss understanding is that the characters in dbz ate able to control their ki even after there attack. What the attack does and capable of doing is different in dbz. Such as a planet busting attack hitting the earth and not destroying it. If cell and ssj2 gohan could destroy the ss that doesn't mean there attacks will actually do it. 1 gohan doesn't want to so he want have his attack do so. 2 cell would but that would weaken his struggle against gohan. In the end dbz attacks are applied to the affected area of the attack not the power in which the attack has.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8422276/1/

@jodin20723: so you're saying that even though the creator confirmed,you still say it was an hyperbole?

@midnightdragon18: don't argue with retards.

Lol.

This is my reaction everytime someone says something was a hyperbole then Akira confirms it in his handbooks.

multi-galaxy

@princearagorn1:

Where is that quote from?

daizenshuu 7

@midnightdragon18: The creator confirmed what? That characters In DBZ can destroy a galaxy? Where is this SHOWN within the context of the ACTUAL SOURCE MATERIAL? I have to believe goku can destroy a galaxy because the creator tells me he can? For starters Akira Toriyama is basically a story telling novice. He changed the context of DB and DBZ so often that the story literally began to contradict itself constantly. Toriyama didn't even create half of the back story for DB and DBZ until halfway through the run of DBZ when fans began noticing all the plot holes within the story and flawed character development of alot of DBZ's major characters. That was the whole reason for the daizenshuu. Keep in mind this is not even taking into account the confusion that is the DBZ movies. Akira Toriyama is a rookie when it comes to writing a good story and in essence means alot of his statements about how powerful he believes a specific characters to be are in fact complete BS. Now this is in no way a jab at DBZ, as a matter of fact it's quite the opposite. DBZ is a very simplistic action manga/anime and I love it for that exact reason, but what bothers me is when DBZ fans hype up plot inconsistencies and hyperbole as if it's the end all be all for why goku is god. DBZ fans act like they have never heard the term PIS (plot induced stupidity) or WIS (writer induced stupidity) before. Aside from Toriyama telling you what you are supposed to believe what other concrete proof is there that goku can in fact actually destroy a galaxy? Ohh wait none, aside from the flawed dbz logic of "a specific character said he was galaxy busting and goku beat him or a being more powerful then him so that means goku is in essence galaxy busting". Funny thing about that said logic is that I can relate similar nonsense to any character. Like Monarch for example who was proven to be universe busting was defeated by Superman Prime in countdown #44. Its end result lead to the complete destruction of earth 51's universe. Now this was Superman prime who was infused with the power of the a Guardian, but this in dbz logic would make Superman prime a universe buster. Here is another one for you, Imperiex who was proven to be a galaxy buster was defeated by superman, so technically that makes Superman a galaxy buster. To add on that batman has defeated superman before on different accounts so that in turn must make batman a galaxy buster as well. Needless to say this only shows how flawed alot of DBZ fans over hyped logic is. Basically if it's not proven in the source material then he is not on that level.

If Goku put his mind to hit, he could destroy dimensions.

Goku is an everything buster

Ahh, of course, Solar System being destroyed is a common hyperbole used in fiction *sarcasm*.As fast as lightning and calm as sky are actual common hyperboles that are used but " I have not only enough energy to destroy the Earth but the entire Solar System is "obviously" a hyperbole.

"Cell thrived on fear and intimidation and scaring people into believing how superior he was eveyone?"

Cell didn't put fear into anybody when we even meet or when he even becomes perfect.Cell was superior to everyone with the only exception being Gohan due to his "potential".Perfect Cell was only testing out his powers out on everyone to pretty much show off his powers, but it's not an exaggeration or hyperbole by that alone.

As a matter of fact alot of DBZ villains had that similar personality trait.

Frieza was the only character who actually lived off the fear and intimidation of others, but none of these characters rarely lie ever.Vegeta was the only stupid guy who thought he could beat Frieza despite being able to sense energy.

So yes Cell had every reason in the world to over hype his power.

What do you mean, overhype? They can literally sense how much energy they have.Cell would or should logically be able to know his limitations because he's a super computer made by people who could make infinite energy generators made of a metal that could withstand planet level attacks and MFTL spaceships.Cell had an upperhand in this battle without a doubt.

A prime example of cell not being solar system busting was durring the final showdown vs SSJ2 gohan. They both attacked each other with full powered Kamehameha waves and logic would say that if cell was indeed solar system busting and Gohan was equal in power if not stronger then the combined power of 2 full powered Kamehameha waves should essentially destroy the solar system 2x over and yet it didnt. It was even fired within earths atmosphere and destroyed cell but not earth or the solar system. So again common sense says that cell was not powerful enough to destroy a solar system.

Maybe because they cancelled each other's out or the fact that the Kamehameha(s) didn't explode at all and dissipated.Cell charging his Kamehameha was literally shaking the whole planet without it being even shot out yet.Maybe Final Flash or Goku's Kamehameha isnt planet level because they didn't destroy the planet even though it didn't directly hit the planet just like Cell's or Gohan's did.

Maybe Vegeta's Big Bang Attack isn't planet level because it destroyed a villain who had planet durability but only made a crater.

The ONLY reason why Cell's claim is interpreted as hyperbole is because the lack of confirmation/exposition from the characters themselves.

@jodin20723: just curious have you anything by akira other than Dragon ball? It seems like your saying he sucks purely because of Dragon ball?

Didn't Read your post but i predicted you disregarded what i said about the author confirming.

Pretty much. AT is the ultimate authority over everything Dragonball. If he unequivocally says Goku can do something, then he can pretty much do it. It doesn't matter as much if it is published or not, because Toriyama has final say in what Goku can do anyway.

Corporate comics are different. Most characters lasting more than a few years are subject to work by many different authors, editors, and artists, none of whom ultimately have more authority than any of the others. Since no one author has the right to speak for what, say, Superman, truly can or cannot do, only express his opinion on the matter, we can't just take them at their word. That's why we go by what actually makes it to publication. It's not because feats are inherently the most logical and sensible way to do it (we all know guys like Superman, Thor, SS, etc are wildly inconsistent in their showings), it is just the most sensible when the statements of one author don't inherently carry any more weight than the statements of any other author.

Personally, I think this is one of the biggest obstacles in the comics vs. anime arena; there are a lot of people who insist that all works of fiction be judged by the exact same rubric, and while this has the appeal of looking fair and consistent on the surface, I think that completely ignoring the different natures of how different franchises are handled is a flawed way of thinking.

For starters Akira Toriyama is basically a story telling novice. He changed the context of DB and DBZ so often that the story literally began to contradict itself constantly.

It doesn't matter. Toriyama is the creative god of Dragonball. He owns and controls everything that happens in that universe. When George Lucas still owned Star Wars, he changed all kinds of crap back and forth whenever he felt like it. Enraged armies of fanboys to no end. And it didn't matter. At the end of the day, everyone still had to accept that Lucas' canon trumped everything else in Star Wars, including the older versions of Lucas' canon.

And sure, there are some contradictions, but I really don't think it is any worse than any number of plot holes, inconsistencies, or retcons you can find in American comics.

Keep in mind this is not even taking into account the confusion that is the DBZ movies.

There is no confusion of the DBZ movies. They are side stories. They were made by other people purely for entertainment and to bank off the name of the franchise. They don't count for anything as far as the actual DB saga is concerned. You could basically think of them as the Elseworlds of Dragonball.

but what bothers me is when DBZ fans hype up plot inconsistencies and hyperbole as if it's the end all be all for why goku is god.

Some people are just irrational. Sure, taking things out of context or taking hyperbole literally is always logically flawed, but it's not like DB fans have a monopoly on this. When I was posting more regularly, the Flash fanboys were probably the worst (e.g. claiming Wally West is a universe buster or could literally run faster than infinite velocity; you know someone's not actually thinking things through when they come to a conclusion like that), and the old Storm fanboys are nearly legendary in this regard. Sure, there are going to be people who make ridiculous, unwarranted claims about Goku, but that happens with almost any fiction. There are plenty of people who have a more calm and sensible approach to it though.

DBZ fans act like they have never heard the term PIS (plot induced stupidity) or WIS (writer induced stupidity) before.

Eh, I think Comic fans forget the terms frequently too, especially when they're arguing against Dragonball. When you turn it back to comics vs. comics, they tend to start remembering all the stupid stuff in comics again. There's also the problem that one fan's PIS is another's high-end feat. To use the Flash as an example again, he once fought the Antimonitor (time travelled back to the events of CoIE) and smashed up his armor. Now, most comics fans would look at that and go "OMG, that is the most amazingly idiotic fight I think I've ever seen published. Mark Waid must have been high as hell when the thought that up." But Flash fans? To them it's just concrete proof that Wally really is the most amazingly awesome hero ever. Every other fight he's ever had against someone weaker (i.e. EVERYBODY) where he has a hard time? Those are all PIS.

Aside from Toriyama telling you what you are supposed to believe what other concrete proof is there that goku can in fact actually destroy a galaxy? Ohh wait none, aside from the flawed dbz logic of "a specific character said he was galaxy busting and goku beat him or a being more powerful then him so that means goku is in essence galaxy busting". Funny thing about that said logic is that I can relate similar nonsense to any character.

I would say the big difference here is that DBZ really does work largely on ABC logic, and is actually remarkably consistent with it. The pecking order tends to be pretty clear, and rarely does a weak character have any truly great success against a stronger one (as compared to, say, Flash smashing up the AM, or Spiderman defeating Firelord). Also, most characters in DBZ have largely the exact same power set (regeneration being the main monkey wrench sometimes thrown in). If Cell could blow up the solar system with a kamehameha, and Goku or Gohan or Vegeta are stated to be more powerful, then they could blow up the solar system too, because they all have the same kind of energy blast powers that Cell did. Conversely, Superman Prime does not have the same kind of energy powers that Monarch does, so Monarch blowing up something doesn't mean Prime could accomplish the same level of destruction in the same way. ABC logic fails more in comics than DBZ because there are much more diverse power sets in comics. Also, again, comics have lots of writers, which actually adds in inconsistencies even between characters who have already fought.

Incidentally, I believe the idea of Batman actually beating Superman was debunked pretty thoroughly by Saren. It is a popular belief many people have, but if you actually go through all their published battles, even including Elseworlds, Batman has only ever won maybe once or twice, with massive prep or crazy circumstances, and never in main continuity. At best, he manages to inconvenience Superman for a while.

Small town level at best.

@freefa11: well said, i don't think we'll get through to him.

As much as I appreciate the effort, the logic is still flawed all the same because of a general lack of PROOF. I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind here but you definitely can't expect me to believe that specific characters (goku, gohan, vegeta, etc) post cell saga are of a Skyfather level of energy projection or higher and can easily stomp characters like Galactus, Tyrant, Beyonder, Anti-monitor, The Guardians, Monarch, Imperiex, etc. Because when people say goku is "solar system or galaxy busting". A power like that is on par if not beyond what is displayed by any of these high end characters who are SHOWN to be clearly far far more powerful then anyone in dbz (including beerus and whis) combined on pure showcase alone. What blows my mind is the pure ignorance some dbz fans have of how big a solar system and galaxy is compared to earth let alone someone of human size like goku. The energy needed to literally wipe out a galaxy would need to be billions upon billions upon billions of times more powerful then any of the strongest planet busting attacks ever shown in DBZ (no exaggeration). Just to destroy our solar system alone Goku would have to be powerful enough to destroy the earth close to a million times over in order to be able to completely vaporize our sun. Funny thing is our sun is considered a "small star" compared to others within our galaxy, like Mu Cephei for example a star within our milky way galaxy that is close to 1650x larger then our sun and is also thousands of light years away. Keep in mind also that this is one star compared to the billions of other stars within our galaxy, so technically if goku was a "galaxy buster" then the simple act of destroying a planet should be so easy that he could do it with a flick of his eye lash. But again I guess common sense like that does not apply to anime and it's special rules for what is considered a canon feat. After all we only need to have Akira Toriyama just tell us that Goku is god and in essence the creator and destroyer of all and therefore can not be beaten by any flawed corporate American fictional characters. Hahaha still blows my mind how people really can think that different rules of what is considered canon apply for manga/anime compared to any traditional comic book character. But reguardless, if you choose to accept what Mr Toriyama says as a cannon showcase of true power over anything that was clearly shown in the anime or manga then have at it. Just don't expect others with common sense to believe such nonsense. Fyi this is coming from a hardcore dbz fan within myself.

Goku is a nut-buster =)

Probably multi-solar system level at best.

solarsystem at best in canon.

@honeyboi_chad: You're math is right but king Kai's planet is not that dense According to the anime.

In words of @judasnixon

Cell was a solar system buster Goku at ssj3 is multi solar system

Casual Multi solar system if composite

Low multi solar system level if canonn only