FCBD: The New 52 discussion

So I just finished reading the New 52 issue and Ive got to say I really liked it. It explains alot about Pandora and her motivations, has 4 all star artists and got me SUPER hyped for what appears to be DC's next event the Trinity War.

A couple things I noticed and especially liked

I REALLY like the Phantom Stranger's origin, and it was a huge shock learning who he was before his transformation

The "Trinity of Sin" is a pretty cool idea, though it is kinda weird what they did to The Question

Seeing a little more of Earth 2 in the Red Room

All the stuff in the Black room including what looked to be Etrigans armor from Demon Knights and freaking Haunted Tank

And Jim Lee's 4 page gatefold spread was AMAZING!

What do you guys think?

What issue are you talking about?

sold out............................

@BlackArmor said:

sold out............................

It's a free issue, how can it be sold out? :p
BB

@Billy Batson: touche

@BlackArmor said:

sold out............................

More like ran out.

I thought it was awesome. The rotating artists thing was cool, the page spread was awesome, and we could get to use this as guideline for future JL members. I'm thinking that according to this spread, we might be seeing all of those characters as members of the Justice League. I'm betting whoever that GL is that got hit by Superman's pillar thing may be Hal Jordan's replacement somehow. Also, does anyone know who that GL is? And, Pandora's story was awesome.

@noj said:

I REALLY like the Phantom Stranger's origin, and it was a huge shock learning who he was before his transformation

Who was he? All we saw was that he was greedy, for some reason.

Yeah, we need an image of the Black Room so we can begin identifying what all those pieces are... Haunted Tank was definitely there... I believe the Spear of Destiny... there was a throne, there was a dragon skeleton, there was some sort of ship... man, we've got a lot of work to do.

I though Phantom Stranger's identity was really good. I think that mostly because I started writing a story that used the same twist about a year ago... not a Phantom Stranger story, but still. Blast you DC FCBD for ruining my future. And w00t nevertheless. There were a lot of little hints, easter eggs and bits... make sure to read the fine print on crates too, there are hints there as well... I really shouldn't have bagged and boarded my issue.

Oh, and one thing I recall is that the magic inscription was dated 1775 in Roman Numerals... probably a breadcrumb there.

Oh yeah, theres a (partial view) of a Red Lantern in there as well. And the dated seal also contains the words Annuit Coeptis.

@Funrush said:

I thought it was awesome. The rotating artists thing was cool, the page spread was awesome, and we could get to use this as guideline for future JL members. I'm thinking that according to this spread, we might be seeing all of those characters as members of the Justice League. I'm betting whoever that GL is that got hit by Superman's pillar thing may be Hal Jordan's replacement somehow. Also, does anyone know who that GL is? And, Pandora's story was awesome.

@noj said:

I REALLY like the Phantom Stranger's origin, and it was a huge shock learning who he was before his transformation

Whi was he? All we saw was that he was greedy, for some reason.

You sort of have to read between the lines for it, but my reading was that he was originally Judas... an individual punished for his greed, for 30 pieces of silver... just like those that are tossed at him by the council, becoming his necklace/chains.

A great issue.

Loved the S H A Z A M council. In the past, we did not see much of them in the past (and Trials of Shazam was not great) and it was just awesome to see them together. I am intrigued by their diversity, a pantheon of ancient religions from around the globe.

I did not like the fact that the Stranger was given an origin story because by definition it did not make any sense and in the past, DC gave alternative versions which was a smarter move IMO.

I did not like Question's reboot either. The Vertigo/DCU has dozens of magical beings, why pick one character who has absolutely no link to magic (pre-reboot, he even died from cancer). I am guessing DC fears people might confuse him for Rorschach but he is the original, not the copy so I found it inappropriate.

Now as I said, I liked the issue overall but I do fear that DC promises too much here. I remember Justice League of America #0 and most of it never happened.

@TheOptimist: Nice catch on the Red Lantern! I completely missed that.

@DarthShap: I have to disagree about the Phantom Stranger's origin. Having multiple possible origins for a character is just confusing and doesnt make any sense. I much prefer having a single definitive origin now.

@TheOptimist said:

@Funrush said:

I thought it was awesome. The rotating artists thing was cool, the page spread was awesome, and we could get to use this as guideline for future JL members. I'm thinking that according to this spread, we might be seeing all of those characters as members of the Justice League. I'm betting whoever that GL is that got hit by Superman's pillar thing may be Hal Jordan's replacement somehow. Also, does anyone know who that GL is? And, Pandora's story was awesome.

@noj said:

I REALLY like the Phantom Stranger's origin, and it was a huge shock learning who he was before his transformation

Whi was he? All we saw was that he was greedy, for some reason.

You sort of have to read between the lines for it, but my reading was that he was originally Judas... an individual punished for his greed, for 30 pieces of silver... just like those that are tossed at him by the council, becoming his necklace/chains.

You mean the one from the bible?

I LOVE PANDORA.

@noj said:

@DarthShap: I have to disagree about the Phantom Stranger's origin. Having multiple possible origins for a character is just confusing and doesnt make any sense. I much prefer having a single definitive origin now.

Normally I would obviously agree. For me, the Joker only has one origin story and that is the Killing Joke, the one that perfectly mirrors Batman's and makes their duo so meaningful.

However, the Phantom Stranger is supposed to hold a very special place in the DCU. By definition, he is only a stranger and as a result that he would have no origin stories or an infinite number of them was a very smart move (unsurprisingly, one of the stories was written by Alan Moore himself).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ,i cannot get that comic no where damn it

geoff johns needs to be SHOT...now hes going to ruin the history of 3 characters that first of all geoff should nto even be writting ALL at the expense of a possibly stupid arc. someone needs to text me geoff johns address so i can show himn what he really needs....all im saying..dont be suprised if geoff johns suddenly shows up to comiccon busted up with a black eye.

@zackattack529 said:

geoff johns needs to be SHOT...now hes going to ruin the history of 3 characters that first of all geoff should nto even be writting ALL at the expense of a possibly stupid arc. someone needs to text me geoff johns address so i can show himn what he really needs....all im saying..dont be suprised if geoff johns suddenly shows up to comiccon busted up with a black eye.

Three? Didn't Johns create Pandora? And also, don't be so quick to judge after literally ten pages, I think the event will be pretty cool.

I want to say it's lame, but...hey, it's free. It didn't impress me though. The bit with the room filled with artifacts was interesting but otherwise it bored me. But again, it is free I suppose.
 
I'm all for having good storytelling take precedence over established canon, I'd go as far as saying I'm in a minority of thought regarding to what extent I think that, but...Phantom Stranger having multiple origins fit his character. He's supposed to be mysterious, y'know? Attempting to cement his origin sorta conflicts with the 'stranger' part of his title. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all turns out.
 
Anyways, regarding the 4-page spread at the end. The green lantern costume looks kinda like a variation of Midnighter's costume. There was a green lantern ring shown in that "room filled with stuff" shown earlier on when Cornell was still writing too (the same room had a trapped daemonite and a holy grail box from Demon Knights - I made a thread about it in the Stormwatch forums ages ago I think). Plus, they're dealing with the Red Lanterns right now, right? (haven't read the most recent issue)

Did they say that the new Question is Vic in the comic? Because if not The Question could die during the 'Trinity War' somehow (seeing as I don't know that much about them I don't have any idea as to how, but it could still happen), and Vic could be inspired by The Question and take up the mantle. Not saying that it WILL happen, or even that it is likely to happen, just that i's possible.

@Funrush: ohh my bad thanks for noticing that. i pressed 3 by accident. 2 dc characters. see the thing is question and phantom stranger are supposed to be characters that dont need an origin because they provide mystery to the DC universe..theyr shuldnt be used in this way. sure the event will be an attempt of epicness. because thats what DC has geoff johns for...which other than blackest night i dont see any event that he has done thats any good, point is. he more or less tries to get these characters that dont get alot of attention and goes overbard with them in the long run.

can you imagine what he'd do if he had batman? he'd probabaly make this whole event of joe chill actually habing a reason for killing bruces parents and that his parents were secret agents or something... he ruins DC. and everyone is blind to see it!!

@zackattack529: DO you even know what youre talking about? The Question has ALWAYS had a concrete origin, this is just a different version of the Question than we have ever seen. The Stranger not having a singular origin never made sense and was just straight up confusing. Why do you think he's never been very popular? He may be cool but the lack of a real origin made his character very inacessible.

Geoff Johns DC work has created some of the best storylines in the past couple of decades. From his work on the Flash, Teen Titans, JSA, and ESPECIALLY Green Lantern his work has been met with both critical and commercial sucess. He is hardly "ruining" DC. I am SO sick of seeing people hate on him for no reason other than he's popular.

@Mercy_ said:

I LOVE PANDORA.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! She has already jumped onto my favorites list... she is a really well crafted character.

@tensor said:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ,i cannot get that comic no where damn it

You can "buy it now" on Ebay for a dollar... I know that makes it no longer "free" but it is an option.

@Adnan said:

I'm all for having good storytelling take precedence over established canon, I'd go as far as saying I'm in a minority of thought regarding to what extent I think that, but...Phantom Stranger having multiple origins fit his character. He's supposed to be mysterious, y'know? Attempting to cement his origin sorta conflicts with the 'stranger' part of his title. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all turns out. Anyways, regarding the 4-page spread at the end. The green lantern costume looks kinda like a variation of Midnighter's costume. There was a green lantern ring shown in that "room filled with stuff" shown earlier on when Cornell was still writing too (the same room had a trapped daemonite and a holy grail box from Demon Knights - I made a thread about it in the Stormwatch forums ages ago I think). Plus, they're dealing with the Red Lanterns right now, right? (haven't read the most recent issue)

I'm probably in the minority on this one... I've been wanting a Phantom Stranger origin for some time... although the character has thrived as a consequence of not having one... the thing is, he still remains incredibly mysterious for the moment, at least to me... particularly given that his 'true' identity is only suggested, not explicit, leaving a lot of room for interpretation... also, the real mystery remains with his purpose and power set... offering a little more definition to the character also provides him a little more ground to establish a sustainable title... which I'm in favor of.

I had the same gut reaction to the Green Lantern, but now that you've mentioned it... and I can't believe I didn't realize it was the same room from Stormwatch... good thing I've got those issues handy to reflect on. And yes, they're dealing with the Red Lanterns right now. Or rather, they dealt with one.

@Tunsieon said:

Did they say that the new Question is Vic in the comic? Because if not The Question could die during the 'Trinity War' somehow (seeing as I don't know that much about them I don't have any idea as to how, but it could still happen), and Vic could be inspired by The Question and take up the mantle. Not saying that it WILL happen, or even that it is likely to happen, just that i's possible.

I agree that this is a possibility... I'd actually rather see him as this universe's Vic Sage, and if we need the more traditional version of the character to manifest have it come through one of the other available parallel worlds.

@noj said:

Geoff Johns DC work has created some of the best storylines in the past couple of decades. From his work on the Flash, Teen Titans, JSA, and ESPECIALLY Green Lantern his work has been met with both critical and commercial sucess. He is hardly "ruining" DC. I am SO sick of seeing people hate on him for no reason other than he's popular.

While I do believe that people have a right to their varying opinions, I as well am slightly exhausted of the constant Johns attacks. Clearly there are many of us that enjoy his work, and clearly there are enough people that buy his work... just as I won't go out of my way to persuade someone that their lack of enjoyment is "wrong" I would appreciate it if other people would stop trying to convince us that we are in the wrong for appreciating his work. I'd like to be able to enjoy the comics I'm reading.

@DarthShap said:

Normally I would obviously agree. For me, the Joker only has one origin story and that is the Killing Joke, the one that perfectly mirrors Batman's and makes their duo so meaningful.

However, the Phantom Stranger is supposed to hold a very special place in the DCU. By definition, he is only a stranger and as a result that he would have no origin stories or an infinite number of them was a very smart move (unsurprisingly, one of the stories was written by Alan Moore himself).

Understandably many people are going to be divided over this... personally, in the first example, I don't hold to the Joker having a definitive known origin... similarly, I believe the same can be offered for the Phantom Stranger... too often we overlook the fact that we have our own creative licensing and interpretive abilities as readers... just because you've seen multiple variations of origins on the Joker doesn't mean that they detract from the one you've selected as your personal definitive interpretation... so too can it be said for the Phantom Stranger in this instance. Yes, it may be particularly story tied in the future, but with a shrug and a little imagination, you can treat this as a loose piece of information which you can discard as soon as it is no longer needed for the development of plot.

@noj said:

@zackattack529: DO you even know what youre talking about? The Question has ALWAYS had a concrete origin, this is just a different version of the Question than we have ever seen. The Stranger not having a singular origin never made sense and was just straight up confusing. Why do you think he's never been very popular? He may be cool but the lack of a real origin made his character very inacessible.

Geoff Johns DC work has created some of the best storylines in the past couple of decades. From his work on the Flash, Teen Titans, JSA, and ESPECIALLY Green Lantern his work has been met with both critical and commercial sucess. He is hardly "ruining" DC. I am SO sick of seeing people hate on him for no reason other than he's popular.

Not to mention he totally revived Aquaman in the eyes of thousands of people.

@TheOptimist said:

@DarthShap said:

Normally I would obviously agree. For me, the Joker only has one origin story and that is the Killing Joke, the one that perfectly mirrors Batman's and makes their duo so meaningful.

However, the Phantom Stranger is supposed to hold a very special place in the DCU. By definition, he is only a stranger and as a result that he would have no origin stories or an infinite number of them was a very smart move (unsurprisingly, one of the stories was written by Alan Moore himself).

Understandably many people are going to be divided over this... personally, in the first example, I don't hold to the Joker having a definitive known origin... similarly, I believe the same can be offered for the Phantom Stranger... too often we overlook the fact that we have our own creative licensing and interpretive abilities as readers... just because you've seen multiple variations of origins on the Joker doesn't mean that they detract from the one you've selected as your personal definitive interpretation... so too can it be said for the Phantom Stranger in this instance. Yes, it may be particularly story tied in the future, but with a shrug and a little imagination, you can treat this as a loose piece of information which you can discard as soon as it is no longer needed for the development of plot.

For the first example, I completely recognize that it was just my opinion. Hell, even in the Killing Joke itself, the Joker says that "If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

On the contrary, for the Stranger, he is defined by his mysteriousness and it is not just an opinion here. Giving him one definitive and purely christian origin story just was not the right thing to do. Once again, I feel DC is getting rid of a lot of things that made it special.

@noj said:

@zackattack529:The Stranger not having a singular origin never made sense and was just straight up confusing. Why do you think he's never been very popular? He may be cool but the lack of a real origin made his character very inacessible.

Actually it made a lot of sense. He would not be a stranger if we knew for sure who he was. That is what made him special.

I would not say he was not popular. DC just keeps him for the biggest occasions, like Pariah in a way, and he happens to be more interesting as a secondary character (and Johns will keep using him as one).

As for inaccessible, that is part of his character and the greatest writers knew how to use this aspect of him in their advantage. Now, not everyone can be Moore or Gaiman but it goes to show that it can be done and used as something that makes the character more interesting.

I would like it if they made Phantom Stanger a stranger to everyone each times he meets them. Like they forget ever meeting him.

I'm disappointed at yet another human Green Lantern. The other group the JLA are fighting could be Steve Trevor's other team. Did you see his mad face  when the JLA was brought up about asking them for help.

@Dernman: Yeah it definatley looks like Steve Trevor's team. From the looks of it the team has Green Arrow, Vibe, Element Woman, Shazam/Black Adam, The Atom. and possibly a new Green Lantern. On the other hand it looks like the Justice League gained Hawkman, and Deadman but lost Aquaman. But thats just at face value. It's possible that some of the people Im assuming are in the League switched sides. In fact now that I think about it its entirely possible it is Wonder Woman on Trevor's team due to her relationship with him, and Aquaman is still on the League and brought Mera with him. Whatever is happening I'm excited.

I'm surprised they made a 5th human GL. I wonder how much development or longevity his character is going to have. I must admit, I think, from what we've seen of him, this new GL has the coolest costume I've ever seen. I wonder if it's the Red Lantern, maybe? Hopefully not though.

Something I'm pondering is: Could the pre-FP JLA members/post-FP non-leaguers be apart of a new team that Trevor set up? It seems possible but if you closely enough it seems like the league is even fighting itself. WW is fighting the Aqua's and Superman is smashing the new GL and Cyborg's arm off.

Needless to say, the trinity war preview was quite possibly one of the biggest teases ever. I want more. I need more. I'm very excited for what's to come.

And I wonder what happened to Hal Jordan...I hope he doesn't die again....or maybe he actually permanently lost the ring...

SO MANY QUESTIONS.

@ArturoCalaKayVee: I thought for awhile that Superman was smashing Cyborgs arm off but if you look closely, I think that its the Atom coming out of Cyborgs arm that caused it to explode

@noj said:

@ArturoCalaKayVee: I thought for awhile that Superman was smashing Cyborgs arm off but if you look closely, I think that its the Atom coming out of Cyborgs arm that caused it to explode

Oof, good eye, he is the one that destroys Cyborgs arm. I thought he was jumping towards Batman. Good eye. But there's still no explanation for why Aquaman and Mera are getting their butts handed to them by WonderWoman.

Isn't it weird that all the members of the Trinity of Sin are from different time periods? Pandora is from ancient Greece ( just after the dawn of mankind, according to her myth ) , Phantom Stranger , if he is Judas ( and it was made pretty clear that he is ) is from 33 A.C. and the Question... well I have no idea, but I guess we will find out after his original name is revealed.

@IkarosZ said:

Isn't it weird that all the members of the Trinity of Sin are from different time periods? Pandora is from ancient Greece ( just after the dawn of mankind, according to her myth ) , Phantom Stranger , if he is Judas ( and it was made pretty clear that he is ) is from 33 A.C. and the Question... well I have no idea, but I guess we will find out after his original name is revealed.

Yeah, Phantom Stranger being Judas is actually pretty interesting. Still trying to figure out who Question is, though. Also, does this mean in the DCU, Christian beliefs are true? The Shazam guy does say that Jesus's death (if it is Judas) darkened the world. I wonder if that was in the view that he was God's son, or that he was a great role model.

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

I'm surprised they made a 5th human GL. I wonder how much development or longevity his character is going to have. I must admit, I think, from what we've seen of him, this new GL has the coolest costume I've ever seen. I wonder if it's the Red Lantern, maybe? Hopefully not though.

Something I'm pondering is: Could the pre-FP JLA members/post-FP non-leaguers be apart of a new team that Trevor set up? It seems possible but if you closely enough it seems like the league is even fighting itself. WW is fighting the Aqua's and Superman is smashing the new GL and Cyborg's arm off.

Needless to say, the trinity war preview was quite possibly one of the biggest teases ever. I want more. I need more. I'm very excited for what's to come.

And I wonder what happened to Hal Jordan...I hope he doesn't die again....or maybe he actually permanently lost the ring...

SO MANY QUESTIONS.

I'm thinking that Hal quit the JL or died or something, and that this new GL is his replacement. I'm speculating that all of the people on the spread are going to be JL members by the time this event starts. No Martian Manhunter on the spread disappointed me for a bit. Hopefully he still joins.

@zackattack529: @zackattack529 said:

can you imagine what he'd do if he had batman? he'd probabaly make this whole event of joe chill actually habing a reason for killing bruces parents and that his parents were secret agents or something... he ruins DC. and everyone is blind to see it!!

So what you're saying is he'd turn Batman's parrents into ... Spider-man's ?

@Mercy_: Know mythology, eh?

Any dea who makes up the new pantheon of the Rock of Eternity? Names