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Posted by k4tzm4n (34903 posts) 9 months, 24 days ago

Poll: Favorite Comic Runs VOTING: Mark Millar's SUPERMAN: RED SON vs. THE ULTIMATES (293 votes)

Superman: Red Son 47%
The Ultimates 43%
Unfortunately, I haven't read either. Shame on me. 10%

This week, we're putting Mark Millar in this segment's spotlight. The creative mind behind CIVIL WAR obviously has a lot of quality stories to choose from, but after really thinking it through, we believe comparing and contrasting two alternate universe stories from the big two could be a whole lot of fun. In one corner, we have SUPERMAN: RED SON. While it may not have nearly as many issues as its competition, it's one hell of a "what if?" story and has an absolutely brilliant ending. Plus, Batmankoff! In the other corner, we have THE ULTIMATES. Over the course of two volumes, Millar and Bryan Hitch put a brand new spin on quite a few of Marvel's A-listers and the end result is ride that is nothing short of epic. We adore both stories, but if you had to pick one over the other, which would you side with and why?

The poll will stay open until Friday morning (ET). That should give you more than enough time to really think this one through and then cast your vote with some degree of confidence. And if you haven't read either story, this gives you at least four days to finally check them out. Or, you can be incredibly lazy and just vote for the "I haven't read either" option. The choice is yours. After casting your vote, we encourage you to jump into the comments and get your elaboration on. Give the winning story a good amount of support and there's a chance we'll include it in Friday's article. Getting the post of the week isn't up there with winning a medal or anything like that, but it gives you a little bit of bragging rights, yes?

Last but not least, give the Comic Viner Squalleon some love in the comments below. They were not only the first person to correctly guess this week's match-up based on the teaser image, but they were also the very first post in the article. You've got a keen eye there, Squalleon.

Check the homepage on Friday to see which story won and why. In the meantime, feel free to make future match-up suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Posted by Xwraith (21371 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. It's the only Millar book I know that's not deep into "edgy as f**k" territory.

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#2 Posted by Billy Batson (58305 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. The Ultimates felt at times a bit edgy.

BB

#3 Posted by Saren (25062 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. It held back on the edgy.

Moderator
#4 Edited by LCazT1996 (532 posts) - - Show Bio

Sadly, I haven't read Red Son so...yeah. :/

#5 Posted by GrenadeFlow (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

His Ultimates was so good the movies are using some of his ideas and the 616 too.

#6 Posted by Overlander (551 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I loved The Ultimates (it was pretty good), Red Son was a great spin and a fabulous what-if..? styled tale of the Man of Steel.

#7 Posted by JediXMan (31268 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Red Son. I prefer Ultimates 2 over Ultimates 1.

Moderator
#8 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12582 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. As awesome as Ultimates was, despite it's EDGY and perverse take on a lot of characters, Red Son is one of the best Superman & Elseworlds stories ever.

#9 Posted by k4tzm4n (34903 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

Going with Red Son. I prefer Ultimates 2 over Ultimates 1.

This segment is taking his entire run with the team into account.

"Over the course of two volumes, Millar and Bryan Hitch put a brand new spin on quite a few of Marvel's A-listers and the end result is ride that is nothing short of epic."

#10 Posted by JediXMan (31268 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:

@jedixman said:

Going with Red Son. I prefer Ultimates 2 over Ultimates 1.

This segment is taking his entire run with the team into account.

"Over the course of two volumes, Millar and Bryan Hitch put a brand new spin on quite a few of Marvel's A-listers and the end result is ride that is nothing short of epic."

... oh...

... so... the poll might be off by one point now.

Moderator
#11 Posted by k4tzm4n (34903 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:
@k4tzm4n said:

@jedixman said:

Going with Red Son. I prefer Ultimates 2 over Ultimates 1.

This segment is taking his entire run with the team into account.

"Over the course of two volumes, Millar and Bryan Hitch put a brand new spin on quite a few of Marvel's A-listers and the end result is ride that is nothing short of epic."

... oh...

... so... the poll might be off by one point now.

The Ultimates' blood is on your hands, sir!

#12 Edited by JediXMan (31268 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:

@jedixman said:
@k4tzm4n said:

@jedixman said:

Going with Red Son. I prefer Ultimates 2 over Ultimates 1.

This segment is taking his entire run with the team into account.

"Over the course of two volumes, Millar and Bryan Hitch put a brand new spin on quite a few of Marvel's A-listers and the end result is ride that is nothing short of epic."

... oh...

... so... the poll might be off by one point now.

The Ultimates' blood is on your hands, sir!

Pft. Look at that poll! Red Son was destined to win, with or without me!

No blood on my hands, good sir! None! *desperately washes hands*

Moderator
#13 Posted by Deadgod (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son

#14 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34938 posts) - - Show Bio

It's to hard to vote right now so I'm gonna reread them again then vote

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#15 Posted by Squalleon (4850 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. I may be biased a little since it is a Superman story and a good at that.

What I love most about Red Son is the fact that it reflects the DC history. Superman is the first superhero and the center of the superhero world changing the DCU based on how he is different.
Even though the art is good, the biggest asset of RS is the story, the reimagining of this magnificent world in another era, familiar but different at the same time. The great supporting cast true to their original characters but with a nice twist, Batmankoff, Diana and especially Luthor. Luthor is a great villian, driven by jealousy and ready to prove by any means neccessary that he is the best, proving that some things are the same no matter what the situation. And of course there is the twist in the last pages of the last issue changing the dynamic between Luthor and Superman and creating a fantastic ironic element.

On the other hand Ultimates is great too. With (subjectively) better art and while it is a nice reimagining of the classic Avengers, it doesn't have the same heart in it as RS. It does the same mistake every movie/book/comic does when it tries to be realistic, it makes everyone dark and edgy but it is a minor grip in the overall book which is a really good read and a book that I often find myself browse through.

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#16 Posted by micah (2604 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimates = the reason I got into comics

#17 Posted by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimates easily, but the Superman fanbase on the Vine is too strong. Red Son will probably win.

#18 Posted by micah (2604 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: I disagree with your "dark and edgy" comment, The Ultimates are a realistic take on the Avengers and the world mirrors the real world. My point being they are facing real world consequences with their actions and problems, which I think The Ultimates nailed that setting

#19 Edited by SanoHibiki (1731 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son all the way...

Alright, kidding, but still Red Son by some margin.

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#20 Posted by Jphu8414 (3877 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son

A fantastic example of a great elseworld story

#21 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8851 posts) - - Show Bio

I've not read either, nor will I have the time this week. I go in the "shame on me" box!

#22 Posted by Alak (928 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son had a much better storyline (concept and execution). On the other hand, the Ultimates definitely had better battles.

My vote goes to Red Son.

#23 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Red son

#24 Edited by SoA (5241 posts) - - Show Bio

yay im in the monority !, go ultimates!

#25 Edited by AirDave817 (839 posts) - - Show Bio

The Ultimates.

#26 Posted by TheAmazingImmortalMan (3848 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son has my vote

#27 Posted by k4tzm4n (34903 posts) - - Show Bio

Reminder: if you're not happy with the poll, making a thorough post and rallying support is far more effective than complaining.

#28 Posted by anthonygiu (65 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. I liked Ultimates but Red Son was simply better

#29 Edited by Captain13 (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

The Ultimates.

I have to admit that this isn't a difficult decision for me to me. While Superman: Red Son is a wonderful story, it just isn't as groundbreaking or influential as The Ultimates was.

The Ultimates did for the Avengers what Christopher Nolan did for Batman. It brought the colorful characters created by Marvel in the 1940s and 1960s into a post-9/11 world to say something about the state of our country and the human experience today. Captain America's entire story arc--the legend settling into a seedier version of his old neighborhood--reflects the drastic contrast between the beautiful illusion of 1940s America and the harsh reality of Post-9/11 America.

The Ultimates may have been the most authentic Marvel book to hit the stands in the entire decade. Mark Millar distilled Stan Lee's Marvel Hero formula but adapted it for the 21st century. The Ultimates presented heroes you believed could exist in our world with personal problems as serious as the problems they faced in the field. The heroes fought and lived in places readers are actually from. The characters name dropped celebrities we're all familiar with. The entire atmosphere of the book really captures the feel of the extraordinary meshing with our the ordinary.

On a purely technical level, the book is not only perfectly plotted with a compelling beginning, middle, and end (a rarity in the current state of comic books), but it is also one of the most beautifully illustrated books to ever hit the stands.

Bryan Hitch's widescreen, cinematic compositions created a sense of wonder in the book and added greater depth to the realism Millar wanted from the book. When people were hurt physically or emotionally, you could feel the weight of it. I mean, who can forget the fight scene between the Ultimates and the Hulk in Manhattan? Who can forget the aftermath?

Finally, you cannot ignore the massive influence this book has had on Marvel Studios' Cinematic Universe. Not only did this book give us the Samuel L. Jackson version of Nick Fury, it also gave us cocky-booze-hound version of Tony Stark that Robert Downey Jr. was able to tap into.

It gave us the blueprint for several of the cinematic costumes we see on screen today. And it firmly established the relationship between the Ultimates and SHIELD that would carry over into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. If a book can do all that and isn't considered great, I don't know what is.

-Captain13

#30 Posted by bladewolf (872 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. It's the comic that's responsible for getting me back into comics after a 6 year hiatus. It's also so well done that, every time I read it, I notice a new facet of it. I've lent my copy to over a dozen friends because I feel everyone should check it out.

#31 Edited by Squalleon (4850 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah said:

@squalleon: I disagree with your "dark and edgy" comment, The Ultimates are a realistic take on the Avengers and the world mirrors the real world. My point being they are facing real world consequences with their actions and problems, which I think The Ultimates nailed that setting

Eh no, realism doesn't mean everything is edgy the ultimates are edgy not realistic! Yeah they are more realistic than the 616 versions but that doesn't mean much since the 616 aren't supposed to be like that. I don't mean Hank Pym since I understand what fame can do to a person but incest, a woman that gets turned on when her boyfriend changes into a monster that kills civilians, the ultimates making money from DVD's showing a tragedy, Thor is the only heroic figure and is labeled as a hippy.
Yeah no edgy at all...

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#32 Edited by mak13131313 (685 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted for Red Son. I think it is a better story.

#33 Edited by Captain13 (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon said:

Thor is the only heroic figure and is labeled as a hippy.

All the Ultimates put their lives on the line for other people, like our men and women in the service. How is that not heroic?

#34 Posted by AmazingWebHead (4284 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read Red Son, but I have read Ultimates.

#35 Edited by Squalleon (4850 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon said:

Thor is the only heroic figure and is labeled as a hippy.

All the Ultimates put their lives on the line for other people, like our men and women in the service. How is that not heroic?

Thor is the only "classic" heroic figure. The one that is inherently good.

Online
#36 Posted by Wardishy (912 posts) - - Show Bio

Unfortunately I have not read either one, although Red Son is on my list. But I won't have the money to pick either of them up any time soon, so I voted for shame. :(

#37 Posted by powerplay (137 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to give it to Ultimates 2 just for convincing me that Thor was not actually a god if only for a little while.

And then Loki said this just to rub my stupidity in my face:

This cemented Ultimates as one of my favorite books.

#38 Posted by Saint_Wildcard (11969 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. As awesome as Ultimates was, despite it's EDGY and perverse take on a lot of characters, Red Son is one of the best Superman & Elseworlds stories ever.

I think it was the best Lex Luthor story ever.

#39 Edited by BWANASIMBA (353 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. The Ultimates had its awesome moments but it seemed to take every character and go overboard with the personality flaws, to the extent virtually every character could be diagnosed with some sort of personality or mental disorder. To be fair, that seems to be what modern media does in general to old characters and new characters alike.

Case in point, Captain Kirk from the old Star Trek series vs Captain Kirk from the new films. Old Captain Kirk occasionally disregarded authority and occasionally let his emotions get the better of him, but generally followed protocol, was a damn good captain and was intensely loyal to his ship and crew. New Kirk was immensely self-destructive, always disregarded orders, and couldn't lead worth a damn. He was a narcissist through and through. Also, while both were shown to be womanizers, old Kirk was very respectful and loved by women, while modern Kirk seemed to be what geeks thought of "douchebags" who slept around.

I talked to some English majors from my old college, and apparently this is standard modern writing 101. All characters are basically defined by their flaws now, to the extent they are parodies of what they represent (another example, old school James Bond vs Archer). Their negative personality traits trump their positive traits, to the point they are completely unlikeable as characters.

#40 Posted by Saint_Wildcard (11969 posts) - - Show Bio

....Red.....Son?

Red Son has to be one of the best Superman vs Lex Luthor and my personal favorite Lex Luthor story. We see that no matter where Superman lands, Lex Luthor will always want to kill Superman, even though Lex Luthor in this story says that if Superman had landed in American they'd be great friends.... riiiiight?

#41 Edited by MasterBelmont (363 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son. Only read a little of it, but I'm mostly voting because Ultimates has Ultimate Captain America, who I really hate because he's an absolute insult to one of my favorite characters.

#42 Edited by Dark_Vengeance_ (15127 posts) - - Show Bio

Well one got and Eisner award and the other one didn't. Shouldn't be too hard of a choice.

#43 Edited by MixMastaMicah5 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimates for sure

#44 Posted by Onemoreposter (4099 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, there really should have been a too close to call for this one.

#45 Posted by patrat18 (10837 posts) - - Show Bio

RED SON!

#46 Posted by Crackdown (610 posts) - - Show Bio

the ultimates are a coordinated military team. not only with great tacticians and smart powerhouses, but with abilities that can take on the man of red steel.

superman is of course, superman, he's possibly the strongest character there is, but strength and speed, while contributing factors are not the only ways to win. the hulk in this situation, is of course, the ultimate hulk, who was shown in ultimate iron man and the hulk to have the ability to adapt. if trapped in space, he adapts to not needing to breathe. to weight that gets heavier and heavier, his body adapts to the pressure and pushes back.

thor is of course, the god of thunder, with incredible speed, strngth and prowess, with also incredible combat intelligence gleened from thousands of years of fighting

captain america is no superhuman, but his brain is his asset here. out thinking his opponant and getting his players into position are what will prove him to be a leader.

hawkeye is indeed a supersoldier here, and can identify what weak parts of supes there might be. there could be none, but regardless, his speed and sight will prove useful.

#47 Posted by elayem98 (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Im a DC guy not a marvel guy but Ultimates 1 + 2 are some of the best books ive ever read. Top 5

#48 Edited by Admiral_IronBeast (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah said:

@squalleon: I disagree with your "dark and edgy" comment, The Ultimates are a realistic take on the Avengers and the world mirrors the real world. My point being they are facing real world consequences with their actions and problems, which I think The Ultimates nailed that setting

exactly. The Ultimates get my vote--I love the Ultimate Universe in general because of the way it tries to stay more realistic, if albeit darker at times.

gotta admit thou: Red Son is easily the best Lex story ever

#49 Edited by Jonez120 (5145 posts) - - Show Bio

10% of Comic Viners haven't read either!!?!?!?!?! WTF?!?

#50 Posted by LyraFay (2536 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Son, as a history buff, it was very clever to mix up elements of the cold war with the DC comic history and as a comic fan, it was fantastic story with great art especially those propaganda posters. My only problem with it was Wonder Woman, a bit off that story.