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Posted by k4tzm4n (43410 posts) 7 months, 6 days ago

Poll: Favorite Comic Runs VOTING: Grant Morrison's ALL-STAR SUPERMAN or BATMAN R.I.P.? (241 votes)

All-Star Superman 58%
Batman R.I.P. 22%
I love them equally 6%
Sorry, not a fan of either 5%
Unfortunately, I haven't read either 8%

When it comes to the comic industry, Grant Morrison is a titan. The creative mind has produced so many phenomenal stories, but his work on two legendary characters has left a particularly massive impression. ALL-STAR SUPERMAN and BATMAN R.IP. are entirely different character experiences with drastically different visuals and both are widely praised as must read stories. We know it won't be an easy choice, but this week, we want you to compare and contrast these two tales. Do you prefer one over the other? Do you love them equally? Are you simply not a fan of them or have you not read either?

Voting is open until Friday morning (ET). That should give you plenty of time to think it through or even reread these two books. Once you've voted, please be sure to jump into the comments and explain why a certain option on the poll earned your support. Make it awesome enough and we might highlight in Friday's update.

Friday's article will include:

  • The poll's results.
  • A "Viner Post of the Week" made for each story.
  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • Other work we recommend by the writer.
  • A tease for next week's writer.

Feel free to make future title suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Posted by JediXMan (30586 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman RIP / his Batman saga as a whole is vastly superior. I say that because, to understand Batman RIP, you kinda need to have read Morrison's whole saga.

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#2 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

Not. Even. Close.

All-Star Superman is considered by many to be THE definitive Superman story while others consider Batman RIP....forgetable

In fact, All Star Superman is so inspiring, it actually became olthe username of one of the Viners here :p

#3 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4371 posts) - - Show Bio

Story wise I liked All Star better although I think R.I.P has better art.

#4 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11563 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison's run on Batman was EPIC.

Morrison's ALL STAR is…it's something much more. Emotional.

I go with All Star Superman.

#5 Edited by Jphu8414 (3719 posts) - - Show Bio

Dang, I really do love both but I just have to barely give this to All Star

#6 Posted by darkrider (450 posts) - - Show Bio

R.I.P

#7 Posted by nigravirum1 (145 posts) - - Show Bio

All-star superman is the best superman story ever written... Nuff said

#8 Posted by Wolverine08 (42155 posts) - - Show Bio

The great rivalry continues.

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#9 Posted by The_Vein (167 posts) - - Show Bio

All-Star Superman is...pretty damn good.

#10 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33357 posts) - - Show Bio

All Star Superman without a single doubt in my mind

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#11 Posted by LCazT1996 (532 posts) - - Show Bio

All-Star got my vote. :)

#12 Edited by SynCig (433 posts) - - Show Bio

I love the majority of Grant Morrison's Batman run, including RIP, but All Star is untouchable in this comparison. It is one of the most captivating stories I have ever read. It has gone down as one of the greatest Superman stories of all time and rightfully so. No disrespect to RIP because it was also thoroughly engaging, especially the re-imagining of Batman of Zur-En-Arrh, but this wasn't close for me.

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#13 Posted by braynehurricane (130 posts) - - Show Bio

I love both of these books dearly but I'm going to have to give it to All-Star Superman. It stripped down to the essentials of Superman and, when it comes down to it, I like Superman more. Not to mention it was a more consistent story.

#14 Posted by Saren (25671 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP is better. Fact. Objective fact. Deal. That's not to say All-Star isn't great, but RIP is a pivotal part of a saga that went a lot deeper into the mythos of the character in question than All-Star ever did. It's all well and good to claim All-Star's "the definitive Superman story", but Morrison's Batman run is definitive to the point that it literally took apart every single element of Batman and his universe and explained why they had to be the way they are.

Superman stories and Batman stories are difficult to contrast because they have different strengths. Superman stories are at their best when they're about Superman being true to himself, while Batman stories are at their best when they're about a conflict regarding Batman's essential nature, whether on the part of the reader or by Bruce himself (think Prey or Ego). All-Star is a safe story, a reassuring one, a story that follows a format that's popular for Superman tales because readers don't like Superman being other than what we know him to be. RIP, on the other hand, is a lot riskier in terms of the implications it offers for the characters in it, and as a result is just flat out more exciting to read.

For instance, conventional knowledge holds that Batman and Joker are two sides of the same coin yada yada --- Batman is sane, Joker is insane. This we know and are comfortable with. RIP, on the other hand, extends the idea proposed in Morrison's earlier work Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth and posits that maybe Batman's the insane one --- it suggests that he is apophenic and has spent his entire life searching for symbols and meanings where there are none, whereas the Joker is "super-sane" and possesses a mentality more suited for the ebb and flow of urban life than any other human. Writers have suggested Batman is crazy before, but few have put that kind of focus on the Joker, who's presented in RIP as being the only man who knows exactly what's going to happen next. Not Batman, not Simon Hurt, not the Black Glove --- before anyone knows what their next move is, the Joker has already written the Black Glove's obituary, because he knows, even if Batman doubts it, that the group of villains simply isn't capable of beating the Dark Knight, whatever other delusions they may nurture.

It's a sharp testament to the idea that just as often as it's claimed that Batman understands the Joker better than anyone, it's also true that no one understands Batman as well as the Joker does --- not Dick, not Alfred, not Selina, not anyone. All-Star, on the other hand, failed for me on the front of the hero vs villain juxtaposition. There's nothing really exciting about Lex Luthor here ---- like Superman, this is a by-the-numbers Lex intended to play in to expectations. Lex deserves some character analysis akin to Azzarello's Lex Luthor: Man of Steel series, and he doesn't really get that here. Both books are, naturally, filled with Morrison's usual references.

And on a possibly/probably/almost certainly less objective note, I struggle to fathom why anyone would think Frank Quitely and his lumpy potato people could hold a candle to Tony Daniel's art.

Also, the definitive Superman story is Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?. Rookie mistake.

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#15 Posted by batmannflash (6219 posts) - - Show Bio

All-Star Superman, easily

#16 Posted by HushoftheWind (982 posts) - - Show Bio

even though i voted for All star i couldnt help myself not posting this

#17 Posted by Deadgod (1401 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by WarBlade539 (4577 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, All Star Superman did help save a life. And it had this single, inspiring moment that shows us who Superman is, at his very core.

#19 Posted by Billy Batson (58021 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

And on a possibly/probably/almost certainly less objective note, I struggle to fathom why anyone would think Frank Quitely and his lumpy potato people could hold a candle to Tony Daniel's art.

>Implying that Daniel is a good artist.

BB

#20 Posted by MarcosVergara14 (448 posts) - - Show Bio

All Star Superman. Batman RIP really dissapoint me

#21 Posted by fables87 (994 posts) - - Show Bio

Never read either, but watched the All Star Superman on Netflix, so voted for that one.

#22 Edited by TakeLuutzen (130 posts) - - Show Bio

All-Star Superman!! Definitely! Morrison told in several interviews how he got the inspiration for the book simply by talking to a guy whose job is to dress up like Superman and posing for photographs, which made the book

#23 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6167 posts) - - Show Bio

I love All Star but Batman

#24 Posted by 4th_wind (21 posts) - - Show Bio

So even though I'm a big fan of RIP, and not a huge Superman fan in general, All-Star Superman takes the cake for me. I even prefer Tony Daniel's art over Quitely's. But all that said, All-Star is such a huge love letter to everything that the Man of Steel has been and can be. RIP is great. But it doesn't have the emotional depth that All-Star hits you with in just about every chapter. It hits on all the sci-fi and human elements that make Superman a great idea and also make him incredibly difficult to keep in interesting stories.

#25 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21842 posts) - - Show Bio

@hart7668 said:

Not. Even. Close.

All-Star Superman is considered by many to be THE definitive Superman story while others consider Batman RIP....forgetable

In fact, All Star Superman is so inspiring, it actually became olthe username of one of the Viners here :p

lol

#26 Edited by Lvenger (19849 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn two of my favourite stories about my two favourite characters from my all time favourite writer. In normal circumstances, this would be a close call on any front, especially given Morrison's deep understanding of both characters. Batman RIP is a downright stunningly brilliant storyline exploring the nature of Batman all the while stripping Batman as a character and a concept down to its core. Easily one of my favourite Batman storylines after The Killing Joke.

But...well it's definitely no secret I'm a big Superman fan and if there's one story which distills the history, mythology and core ideology of Superman, mixes it in with a Silver Age flavour and presents a stirringly mythic yet also emotionally humanising take on the Man of Steel, no story, not even Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow?, does this better than All Star Superman. Morrison delivers a dream version of Superman into the reality of the comic book pages. One whose ideals strive to the best of what humanity can offer, whose character is noble and regal yet friendly and charming and whose resolve to do the right thing carries him towards his very 'end.' If ever there could be a definitive version of Superman, this would be it right here. Everything that makes Superman the cultural icon he is in the eyes of the world is evidently prevalent in this story as well as delivering a sci fi Silver Age storyline with modern sensibilities and a brilliant interpretation of Superman's world. So it's All Star Superman all the way for me. These factors along with many more have made it into my all time favourite Superman and comic book storyline.

#27 Edited by Shallbecomeabattoo (368 posts) - - Show Bio

OHHHHHHH! This is a HARD one. It really hurts to think about it, since both stories are my favorite of the respective character (IF Black Glove is counting as a part of RIP).

Also, both are in my top 2 favorite comics of all time.

Yeah, I gotta say RIP, even if All Star may be a better book overall (NOTHING beats Frank Quitely on art duties. Nothing), for me RIP was one of, if not THE most satisfying read in my life. To be frank here, at first I hated it and didn't got it at all, but over a few rereadings, it fought its way up to my no 1 story pick.

I just love it sooooooooo much. Its a pure Batman story and features Batmans coolest visit in Arkham, a great mysterious group which is pulling strings from the dark (the court of owls is a rip off of the black glove), the creepiest Joker of all time who is against and for Batman at the same time and above all a Batman (or Batgod) who is at his lowest and then at his peak. Take the first few pages of the last issue of RIP for example... when Bruce is trapped underground in a coffin.

"Thats the thing about Batman... Batman thinks of everything."

or later, when he escapes his early grave:

"I have escaped every conceivable deathtrap. Ten times. A dozen times. Straight Jacket is kindergarten. Locks too."

"Benchpressing a pine coffin lid through 600 pounds of loose soil thats filling your mouth crushing your lungs flat and shredding your dehydrated muscles. Thats harder.... But far from impossible."

And the he actually does it and comes out of the ground looking like a Bat out of hell!!!

SOOOOOOOOO COOL!!! I love it!

Also, the creepy thing with Joker seeing Bruce Waynes face and not caring about his identity, that Snyder did in Death of the Family? Its in here, 5 years earlier and handled much creepier and subtler.

Also the mystery about Dr. Hurts identity drove me nuts, back then! It was so creepy and exciting! What a villain!

Oh and "Zorro in Arkham"! That was such a great twist! The whole book feels like a meditation on Batman and what he means to Bruce Wayne. It is so layered and deep, I still get new things out of it every time I read it again.

To me, it is the ultimate Batgod story, just as All Star is the ultimate Superman story. Really sad that Morrison downgraded Batman after this. I liked the unbeatable guy who thinks always of everything.

So, yeah. Batman RIP.

#28 Posted by yo_yo_fun (643 posts) - - Show Bio

All Star Superman, hands down.

#29 Posted by RustyRoy (12670 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP

#30 Posted by specialmonkey7 (17 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I love all things Batman and truly enjoyed RIP, I hate to say it but All Star Superman was just a better all around story. RIP, though epic and amazing in its own right, has a few flaws. Mainly, if you haven't read the stories that happen before it, you're going to start a bit lost into the series. Also, as I've found in some of Grant Morrison's work, you have to read RIP a few times for it to really sink in what Morrison is trying to accomplish. Little hints early on, foreshadowing and things of the like tend to get lost in some of Grant's more epic stories and, unfortuantely, in order to truly love and understand RIP, you have to read it a few times in order to get the big picture.

All Star Superman, however, is such a well constructed, up front story of a heroes final days that you really don't need to read it multiple times to get the full story but, honestly, it's so good, and the nuances so defining of the character that you would be doing yourself a disservice by not reading it multiple times. All Star gives us everything we need to know about the character in the first pages. There is no setup, nor back reading needed. This is the definitive version of Superman, like an amalgam of all the things we have loved about him through the years coupled with the more modern interpretations as well, weaving together a story that can be enjoyed by the young and old fan alike.

#31 Posted by Jayc1324 (12201 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison's entire run on batman was vastly superior to all star superman but just comparing these two novels this isn't even fair. All star superman is clearly better and the poll results so far show it too...

Bad poll

#32 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I guess people like Batman RIP more than I thought.....

*puts foot in mouth*

#33 Posted by Wolverine08 (42155 posts) - - Show Bio

All Star Superman is dominating.

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#34 Posted by k4tzm4n (43410 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

Morrison's entire run on batman was vastly superior to all star superman but just comparing these two novels this isn't even fair. All star superman is clearly better and the poll results so far show it too...

Bad poll

Thanks for the constructive criticism and recommendations for future polls!

If this segment gets people to appreciate stories all over again or even motivate them to read something for the first time, then I'm happy with it. Throw in the fact that numerous people are saying how much they adore both stories and, I gotta say, I disagree with this being a "bad poll."

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#35 Edited by Jayc1324 (12201 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I'm just looking at the poll results so far. All star superman is clearly winning And if one part of the poll is dominating usually the poll is lopsided. I guess i understand the part about getting people to remember how much they loved the stories or read something new but the poll results do reflect a bad poll right? But Sorry for saying "bad poll" if it offends you.

#36 Posted by k4tzm4n (43410 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

@k4tzm4n: I'm just looking at the poll results so far. All star superman is clearly winning. Sorry for saying "bad poll" if it offends you

It's fine. I'm just pointing out why I disagree with this being a poor pairing simply because the results are clearly in one side's favor so far.

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#37 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: You had me till you stated your opinion as fact. :p

But other than that, great post, got me really thinking.

#38 Edited by dagmar_merrill (8530 posts) - - Show Bio

I picked love them both equally. Was an easier option then actually picking one, but i'll go over which was better in each area.

Covers: Easily this goes to R.I.P. Alex Ross did fantastic covers that are far superior to Frank quietly's covers, Frank's covers did do a better job of displaying what was going to go down just by judging from the covers. Alex hit it out the park with each and every cover worthy of being made poster sized.

Interior Art: R.I.P. takes this one as well, Frank isn't at his best here, he does a much, MUCH better job in Flex Mentallo then he did in All Star. Tony was okay nothing spectacular but I wouldn't say it detracted from the story at all. Both portrayed their stories well but didn't excel or really shine but each did have really cool moments. (Batman coming from the ground out of the coffin and Superman in the sun)

Readability: All Star takes it here. You can read this without ever reading a comic before and you'll be able to read it with no confusion. It's a simple story.. kind of. You can read All star a few times and really find some cool things in it so it's done in a really intricate way that anyone can enjoy no matter if you've been reading comics your whole life or just saw Man of Steel and wanna see some neck snappin' (You won't find any). R.I.P. on the other hand was more geared toward people who have been following Batman books for a good bit (or at least have read Grant's other Bat stuff) you can jump in and read it and still understand most of it (It's what I did) but you miss a lot of stuff. So both can be read multiple times and you'll find new stuff but for someone just joining in All Star does a better job then R.I.P.

The supporting cast: R.I.P has a great cast of people who make appearances you see almost all of Batman's close family, they play pretty minor parts and it's mainly bruce going crazy and then coming back as Zur-en-arrh then getting beaten then coming back and winning. Yet you still see all of them for a few panels. All star gives a whole issue to Jimmy and spends a good part of the first few issues focusing on Lois. I'll hand this one too All Star it really fleshes out the cast n this troy in a fantastic way.

Ideas: R.I.P was crazy with unique ideas, Zur-en-arrh, Bat-Mite, Joker, even how paranoid Bruce is. All Star had a few nice ideas as well my favorite was Bizarro but to say All star had more out there ideas is insane. All Star more or less really played with a good amount of ideas and executed them well. R.I.P. had a ton of fresh ideas and did them all well. So R.I.P. had a good bit more ideas that worked well.

All in all.. Both are amazing stories that everyone should read. Both have there flaws and there strengths.

#39 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6853 posts) - - Show Bio

I might be the only one that didn't find anything special with ALL star Superman. Massively overrated, or I'm just not a SUperman fan

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#40 Posted by TDK_1997 (14891 posts) - - Show Bio

It's really interesting to compare these two runs because both of them are considered the definitive runs and takes on both characters.But the thing that makes R.I.P. better is that you shouldn't look only at R.I.P. but on the whole run as a whole because when you piece the puzzle you get one amazing story which is most definitely the definitive Batman run and the definitive Batman story.While All-Star Supeman has it's little flaws and you can really argue with some people if it is the best Superman story ever while with R.I.P. there cannot be such a thing.

So with a few words, R.I.P for me.

#41 Posted by iaconpoint (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

Love them both but gotta go with RIP. It's a little more epic.

And this poll should only include one or the other, not the other cop out answers. If you're not a fan or haven't read either you shouldn't have a vote.

#42 Posted by darkwingdan (188 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted for All Star, but really the two are incomparable. All Star Superman is a limited series, and a great one at that. Meanwhile, RIP is a chapter in Morrison's 7-year Batman epic. Perhaps comparing Morrison's Batman to his New X-Men or JLA run is more appropriate.

#43 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

For me, All-Star takes the cake with absolute ease. I enjoyed RIP but I was never the biggest fan :/

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#44 Edited by Extremis (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

Guess I'm in the minority. Not a fan of A-S Supes

#45 Posted by Extremis (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

I might be the only one that didn't find anything special with ALL star Superman. Massively overrated, or I'm just not a SUperman fan

we're twinsies ^.^

#46 Posted by bloggerboy (574 posts) - - Show Bio

All-Star Superman. This is how Superman needs to be written all the time.

#47 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2243 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by DatHomieSilverSurfer (221 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm hardly a superman fan(boy), or even much of a DC fan for that matter. Most of my DC focus is on the older 4th World stuff and DnAs Legion Lost. But I decided to take a friends advice and pickup all star-superman. I didn't put it back down until I had reread it twice. Truly an incredible story, heartwarming and exciting and interesting and thought-provoking. Afterwards, I sat down and watched the All Star Superman animated movie with my (ex)gf. The movie singlehandedly convinced her to pick up the TPB, which got her into comic books.

So all star superman all the way. As a representation of the comic book medium at its most pure level.

#49 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6853 posts) - - Show Bio

@extremis said:

@madeinbangladesh said:

I might be the only one that didn't find anything special with ALL star Superman. Massively overrated, or I'm just not a SUperman fan

we're twinsies ^.^

hell yeah! Only two of us!

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#50 Edited by modunhanul (407 posts) - - Show Bio

I chose All star Superman. Personally, I didn't even understand Batman RIP...

I like Morrison's Batman & Robin more.