#1 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the MOST annoying thing on fourms. Once you say Dr. Doom people assume that he's going to win and he's (The prep god). They always talk about how he stole this in one day and he did that in one day. But, what you don't seem to understand is that all villans don't go for the same thing. Lex Luthor, one of the greatest minds and schemers. He only wants Supes. He doesn't really care for Universe domination. Batman, has been shown from time and time to beat everyone with prep. Wanna know why he didn't try to kae over the universe? IT'S BECAUSE HE'S A GOOD GUY! Your not going to see him trying to do any of that stuff.

Now here's a perfect point

Mr. Fantastic. You can easily say that he's on the same level or even smarter than Dr. Doom. When are you going to see Mr. Fantastic try to take over the word intead of saving it. What people don't get is that there's a fine line between Power and Desire. People jsut go on fourms and say "Doom Stomp" when they now nothing about him or the other guy. If I don't know the other guy I go and do my research. Everyone is taking a bias approach. Here's a few people I think that can beat Dr. Doom. I'm not saying Dr. Doom will never win against them but, there's a chance both can beat each other.

-Mr. Fantastic

-Mr. Terrific

-Brainiac

-Flash(Wally West)

-Spectre

-Superman Ome Million

-Ozymadians( Very smart, not sure though since we don't have more info on him)

-Blue Beetle

-Batman with prep

-Darksied

-Marquis of death

-Gods such as(OAA, The Presence, Spectre, ODIN etc...)

-Dark Pheonix

-Thanos

-Ghost Rider

And many others. I can even explain why each individual will stand a chance with him. Please tell me what you think.

#2 Posted by Pwok21 (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

Current Doom has multiple infinity gauntlets and time travel, he beats everyone bar TOAA, Presence and Living Tribunal.

Also you cannot class Odin in the same tier as TOAA, as that is just ignorance.

I personally think that ignorance is the single most annoying thing on this forum.

#3 Edited by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pwok21:

1. Not all fourms include Dr. Doom with the IG and people still think he wins.

2. ODIN is a god, TOAA is a god. Both have different power but, are still considered Gods.

3. Your being ignorant for trying to make an arguement with me and calling me ignorant when you can clearly see I said "God such as". So I can put Odin is the "Gods List". This tell me you are unaware that ODIN was a god and doin't grasp the meaning of "such as".

Such as-As in meaing a wide variety of things in similarity. Example: They are both similar to an extent that they are both called "Gods". No-one said who was on the same level because this isn't TAOO vs Odin.

4. Since Thanos can beat Dr. Doom and Odin can beat Thanos, supporting the fact that he is also considered a God, means he deserves a rightful spot up there. That is not ignorance in any way.

Don't take any of this in disrepect. Also, if you were to put Dr. Doom in DC, that infinity gaunlet wouldn't work. Which means he can be beaten in DC by a lot of characters.

Do you think any of the people I put up there doesn't belong up there, as people who can beat thanos? I can actuallu back up my reasons why I think each of these guys and beat Dr. Doom. But, think about it, what if Brainic 5 turned evil and wanted the IG(Means he will have to live in Marvel Universe). Brainic 5 is arguably smarter than Dr. Doom. And if Brainic got his hands on the IG. I think he would PROBABLY do mroe damage than Doom being the fact both of their minds is the most dangerous thing they have.

#4 Posted by dondave (38810 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32:Dr Doom could probably take on Braniac, Lex embarrassed him, I'm Doom can find a way to do the same

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#5 Posted by Jack Donaghy (1108 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah Doom fanboys are annoying it doesn't matter who he's facing he automatically wins, people call Batman BatGod and complain about his reputation with prep when Doom with prep is even worse than he is.

Long live Dr. God.

#6 Edited by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Were talking about Brainiac 5. This is the smartest Brainiac. Lex Luthor is one of the smartest minds, very good with prep, and a VERY good schemer. But, he did that to the other Brainiac, Brainiac 5 is FAR more smarter. He's a 12th level intellect. That's why I put both of them up there. Brainiac is WAY mroe smarter than Mr. Fantastic also. Mr. Fantastic is slighly smarter than Doom.

#7 Posted by dondave (38810 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32: My bad

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#8 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom with prep beat the f**king Pre Retcon Beyonder this pretty much says it all.

#9 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32:

@joshmightbe

said:

Doom with prep beat the f**king Pre Retcon Beyonder this pretty much says it all.

What he said, plus Doom stole the Beyonders Power! @Wardemon32And Reed Richards did turn evil in the Ultimate Universe (1610)!

#10 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a very strong argument to be made that if Doom could get over his ego he could very well conquer the World in fact he did conquer the world once but gave it up because he wasn't happy about how he obtained control.

#11 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I just read Earth 1610 on Comicvine and he was killed by the thing. Brainiac 5 is smarter than Dr. Doom. And he is one of the many few who can acces the anti-life equation which Dr. Doom failed at doing becuase he wasn't a "12th level intellect". Now put Brainiac in Dr. Doom's shoes.

-Brainiac is evil but, still as smart as he was when he was good

-Brainiac is smarter than Dr. Doom

-Dr. Doom relies on his smarts for world domination

-Brainiac sets out to do everything Dr. Doom has done

Don't you think he can pull the smae things off being that he is smarter and this time he is evil? And Doom relies on his smarts to get what he wants. And did you even bother to read the post?

#12 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32: So you're basing this on Fan Fic? You know Brainiac 5 and Doom are from 2 different universes right?

#13 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Doom with prep beat the f**king Pre Retcon Beyonder this pretty much says it all.

And this is exactly the problem,Doom does something like that it's AWESOME,yet if Batman touches Superman it's Batfanboyism not to mention most of his other best feats are repetitions of Secret War(Steals some power and then loses it just as quickly,Doom War and Chirldrens Crusade come to mind).I prefer books of Doom,Fall of Hulks,the Marquis story.

.I have no idea where they're going with the Infinity Gauntlet collection,hopefully they do something new instead of repeating the Thanos story.

Doom has really been reduced to a one trick pony.

#14 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

@joshmightbe: I just read Earth 1610 on Comicvine and he was killed by the thing. Brainiac 5 is smarter than Dr. Doom. And he is one of the many few who can acces the anti-life equation which Dr. Doom failed at doing becuase he wasn't a "12th level intellect". Now put Brainiac in Dr. Doom's shoes.

-Brainiac is evil but, still as smart as he was when he was good

-Brainiac is smarter than Dr. Doom

-Dr. Doom relies on his smarts for world domination

-Brainiac sets out to do everything Dr. Doom has done

Don't you think he can pull the smae things off being that he is smarter and this time he is evil? And Doom relies on his smarts to get what he wants. And did you even bother to read the post?

When the hell did this happen?

#15 Posted by Pwok21 (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

The IG for Doom is current equipment so unless they specify otherwise he should have it and Odin and TOAA are not even on comparable scales of power because Odin is in no way near his level (for example Odin getting beaten by Celestials).

Regardless of IG Doom has TIME TRAVEL, and can proceed to either BFR pretty much any enemy through time or travel backwards and kill them as a kid.

The ONLY enemies that defeat him are cosmic entities on Galactus' scale or above, even Odin was a kid at one point and I'd wager that Doom had superior magic to baby Odin.

Like I said, ignorance of Doom's abilities.

#16 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Lol, you kind of proving my point. Two differnt univeres two different people. One is good and one is Evil. You can say that Brainiac 5 is smarter and if they wer in teh same universe with the same motive Brainiac 5 can do the same thing. So why do people think Dr. Doom is unbeatable?

#17 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32: Doom isn't unbeatable I never said that, just saying he has some impressive prep feats. I don't see how fan fic counts the same as cannon material to you tho. And honestly you can't say with 100% certainty that Braniac 5 is Smarter than Doom because there has never been an instance where they could be compared. They have both mastered time, space and inter dimensional travel, they've both built incredible machines and they've both out smarted nearly omnipotent beings.

#18 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis: When I said put Brainiac in Doom's shoes I was going an example: an image. But, Doom actually failed at getting into the Source Wall.

http://www.comicvine.com/source-wall/34-42569/

He's on that list. And I'm going to give you a link where you actually see hi on the source wall.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1637812-doom_wall.jpg

That is real btw. Lex Luthor and Darksied has survived. You should also watch this "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txah9sc06Ko

Yes, some people has managed to get inside but, I think Lex Luthor was the first to actually get out by himself. Now if Brainiac 5 was to get the FULL anti-life equation he would most likely beat Doom even with the IG. The thing is that I don't like how Marvel goes into details and bout their gods and stuff and it never really makes sense to me. I think the IG matches living tribunal powers and when Thanos or Dr. Doom get's it they somehow ends up losing it. That's means they can be defeated.

#19 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I never said that you said he was Unbeatable either. Mr. Fantastic is smarter than Dr. Doom. Brainiac 5 is the smartest person to ever live in DC so far. And has the highest level intellect. You can still kind of say that Brainiac 5 is smarter. And if you were to put Doom is DC you can say that there is a chance that he can be out smarted.

#20 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

@DocFatalis: When I said put Brainiac in Doom's shoes I was going an example: an image. But, Doom actually failed at getting into the Source Wall.

http://www.comicvine.com/source-wall/34-42569/

He's on that list. And I'm going to give you a link where you actually see hi on the source wall.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1637812-doom_wall.jpg

That is real btw. Lex Luthor and Darksied has survived. You should also watch this "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txah9sc06Ko

Yes, some people has managed to get inside but, I think Lex Luthor was the first to actually get out by himself. Now if Brainiac 5 was to get the FULL anti-life equation he would most likely beat Doom even with the IG. The thing is that I don't like how Marvel goes into details and bout their gods and stuff and it never really makes sense to me. I think the IG matches living tribunal powers and when Thanos or Dr. Doom get's it they somehow ends up losing it. That's means they can be defeated.

You are using a non canon story at best. If I remember correctly, the panel you are referring to was even a joke from the writers.

#21 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4873 posts) - - Show Bio

"Hey um Vick your formula is wrong... SEE"

"What do you know Reed"

BOOM!

Scarred for Life

Mr. Fantastic is smarter

Being arrogant is a sign of stupidity.

That's why the Heros always win. Bad GUys stupid

(+)

#22 Posted by Jack Donaghy (1108 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@joshmightbe said:

Doom with prep beat the f**king Pre Retcon Beyonder this pretty much says it all.

And this is exactly the problem,Doom does something like that it's AWESOME,yet if Batman touches Superman it's Batfanboyism not to mention most of his other best feats are repetitions of Secret War(Steals some power and then loses it just as quickly,Doom War and Chirldrens Crusade come to mind).I prefer books of Doom,Fall of Hulks,the Marquis story.

.I have no idea where they're going with the Infinity Gauntlet collection,hopefully they do something new instead of repeating the Thanos story.

Doom has really been reduced to a one trick pony.

THIS.

I like Doom and all but he just seems like fan service sometimes, like the writers are trying their hardest to make fanboys go "OMG look how badass DOOM is!" Could you imagine the amount of complaining there'd be if Batman had even half of Doom's feats? It's like Doom can get away with it because he isn't as popular or mainstream as Batman so no one has a problem with him being written like a God.

#23 Posted by Vance Astro (91365 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get the point of the thread...

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#24 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL@Ozy being mentioned.

#25 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: How it's stupidity that Doom can beat everyone and anyone he wants.

#26 Posted by Vance Astro (91365 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wardemon32 said:

@Vance Astro: How it's stupidity that Doom can beat everyone and anyone he wants.

But he can't, which is why I don't get it.
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#27 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: That's the whole point. I'm trying to explain WHY he can't beat everyone even with prep. Go look on about any battle with Doom and watch out for the ones that say prep. You'll see that about EVERYONE say's "Doom with prep stomps", "Doom is unbeatable with prep". In this thread I pointed out why he can be beat and who can beat him.

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91365 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wardemon32 said:

@Vance Astro: That's the whole point. I'm trying to explain WHY he can't beat everyone even with prep. Go look on about any battle with Doom and watch out for the ones that say prep. You'll see that about EVERYONE say's "Doom with prep stomps", "Doom is unbeatable with prep". In this thread I pointed out why he can be beat and who can beat him.

The villain can't win every time. There would be no point for him to exist if all he did was win.
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#29 Posted by Fallen_Crippled (6460 posts) - - Show Bio

It may be annoying, but most of the time it is valid.

#30 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: Your only adding onto my point. Why don't you tell this to all of the Doom unreasonable fanboys?

#31 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

And people say that Squirrel Girl is a living PIS >_>

#32 Posted by Vance Astro (91365 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wardemon32 said:

 Why don't you tell this to all of the Doom unreasonable fanboys?

 Because every characters fanboys are unreasonable.
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#33 Posted by Jack Donaghy (1108 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom with prep is the most annoying thing in the history of battle forums yes even worse than Goku vs Superman.

#35 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok as a huge Dr. Doom supporter, i am a little surprised as this thread.

Also given his character portrayal it does stand to reason, given sufficient prep , Dr. Doom has what it takes to beat most people, and he has done so many time, PR Beyonder isnt the only instance.

Mr. Fantastic has just as good feats as Dr. Doom though, there is a difference between the two , Reed is likely smarter, but Dr. Doom has an edge in magic.

Although i do understand how the individuals would stand a chance at him, given his prep feat its only prudent to give Dr. Doom a majority in prep encounter.

#36 Posted by Praetor_fenix (222 posts) - - Show Bio

I think for Doom to only appear when he's sure to win is in character, that's why he's so impresive. Besides how else is he going to be a credible threat to the FF if he's not tremendous? but i think Batman is also formidable with prep time, just read JLA: Tower of Babel to confirm so. I don't think Lex is superior to Doom in intelect, but rather equal. Of course smart characters are always going to be incredible, they face imposible odds in universes where your neighbor might shoot lasers from his nipples. Also smart heroes can't shine as bright as smart villains because they are reactive in their aproach, i mean heroes have to come up with quick solutions while villains have all their time to plan their interactions, although Batman and Reed and some other heroes have proven to be proactive and come up with countermesures to posible eventualities. It's in character for them to outsmart each other and be outsmarted. It's just their nature.

#37 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Yea but, my point is Dr. Doom may not be the only one who can do these feats. It's all about the motive.

Some guy made a good point on a thread. Dr. Doom is better at beaing bad guys than good guys. And I don't think magic is a factor when comparing Reed to Doom. Reed has been shown to cut off Franklin's powers. He could PROBABLY do the same to Doom and his magic.

And here's how Doom is so ridicilous in some threads. I was having a debate and it was "Marvel Earth vs DC Earth". I started pointing out how DC would win and the Marvel fanboys neglected everything is said(Ofcourse). And I guess they got desperate and started point out who would survive and potientially solo. They said he'd surive by hiding(They were SERIOUS). And they said Doom is always prepared and started talking about the people he beat.

Though they failed to realize

  • Most of the powerful people Doom beats consist of prep, the OP specifically said "No prep"
  • There's no possible way of Doom knowing about DC and knowing how to beat them since he doesn't know
  1. Their weakness(Kryptonite doesn't even exist on Marvel as far as I'm aware of, just adding that)
  2. They even existed
  3. And they didn't even know that this universe existed.
  • Keep in mind they ADMITTED that Flash could probably IMP and kill everyone before they can react and they were aware that they knew that there was more than one Flash going around IMP'ing everyone. But they put Doom on the list of suriving? Since you know about Doom so much explain to me how Doom can do this, if you agree with them. I already shut them up but, your one of the best debators on this with common sense and probably neutrality, and can possibly shut me up.
#38 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

I think something that comic fans especially on websites tend to ignore, is that preparation is not the same as capitalizing on an opportunity. Dr Doom is very intelligent sure, but he is also a great opportunist, which means Dr Doom doesn't actually just "beat" a character like Beyonder with "prep" but actually its more about him taking advantage of a situation. What I find a lot of people in general do, is create a simplistic artificial bubble where characters are in bubbles, ignoring important external factors. Prep can't work without opportunity and that context can't be controlled because of the countless external factors involved.

Doom with "prep" tends to shortchange the characters personality, drive and not only that, but a character like Doom and his limits of prep actually can depend on the person projecting their own ability for preparation as well, it involves resources and motivations and discretion and again opportunity. Prep isn't a magic word that one can invoke for intelligent characters to do anything, or even things they have done in the past. Many of Doom's best feats have been contingent on external factors he couldn't control, couldn't predict and aren't always repeated or readily accessible, but he merely made the best of at the time, which itself is a compliment to his ability to adapt and react to a situation (however not something exclusive to just Doom, which actually means using it as an example of say his prep abilities falls flat, because it speaks nothing of prep and to draw objective conclusions about his feats done in those moments can only be achieved by having many other characters put in that or similar situations, making sure other factors are minimized)

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#39 Posted by Wardemon32 (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Wow, I didn't look at this thread again until now. You made an excellent point.

#40 Posted by Herokiller12344 (999 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone that says stomp, or spite has lost all of my respect. The OP would'nt have made the thread if he wasn't convinced thatthis fight could go either way.

#41 Posted by The Stegman (25529 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel about Doom the same way I feel about Flash. Yes, it gets annoying to constantly hear "Doom Stomps" but the fact is..in most cases he will, he has the feats to back it up...though he still isn't exactly my favorite Marvel villain.

#42 Edited by Pipxeroth (500 posts) - - Show Bio

Technically Mr Fantastic is SUPPOSED to be smarter. However Doom's feats far surpass Reed's.

- Pip

#43 Posted by cameron83 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread gave me a headache........

I feel about Doom the same way I feel about Flash. Yes, it gets annoying to constantly hear "Doom Stomps" but the fact is..in most cases he will, he has the feats to back it up...though he still isn't exactly my favorite Marvel villain.

And this.

Whether you like Doom or not,he has the feats to back it up....he's not just all talk.