Double standards in battles (Batman/Dr Doom)

Here's what I noticed so far:

Batman vs Rune King Thor

Proposal: Batman wins by finding and using special equipment such as for example the Infinity Gems, to beat Rune King Thor.

Users' and Moderators' response: But that's not Batman who wins, its the special equipment he uses that granted him the victory!!! Even Aunt May can win this battle with those conditions! #Pls lock/Inb4lock/Spite.

Doctor Doom vs Rune King Thor / Thanos vs Rune King Thor

Proposal: Doctor Doom or Thanos wins by finding and using special equipment such as for example the Infinity Gems, to beat Rune King Thor.

Users' and Moderators' response: DERP!!! Even though its the special equipment that granted Doctor Doom/Thanos the victory, we still think its a fair thread!!! Aunt May is not smart enough to win with those conditions! We lean towards Doctor Doom/Thanos! Continue discussion!

Batman feats

Proposal: Batman can beat a super-powered opponent he cannot beat using his regularly-seen abilities through certain tactics and strategy implementation (Prep).

Users' and Moderators' response: Batman is likely going to need more than a lifetime of prep to achieve that. So no, #Pls lock/Inb4lock/Spite even though there's no rule against huge prep-time.

Doctor Doom feats

Proposal: Doctor Doom can beat a super-powered opponent he cannot beat using his regularly-seen abilities through certain tactics and strategy implementation (Prep).

Users' and Moderators' response: DERP!!! Doctor Doom just needs 1 day of prep to do so. Continue!

Agree? Discuss.

@reasonablecomicsfan: I kind of agree. I think batman used to be overrated on this site, but now is just slandered everytime his name is brought up involving prep. Where as doctor doom is seen to beat anyone feasibly with his prep time and no one calls him out on it. I think the main reason for this is the amount of fan boys for batman way out number dooms fanboys and they kinda just dug their on grave by saying bat god prep. So everyone who's not a fan of batman got tired of it. People aren't exposed to doom enough to get tired of his auto prep wins. But to clarify one thing, doom is much more powerful and has shown crazy prep feats against people way out of his league like pre retconned beyonder and silver surfer. Batmans prep I don't think expands to levels of that magnitude. Also doom is a master sorcerer which also aids in his arguments.

@proto3296: Batman may be over-exposed, but due to this over-exposure leads to him getting downplayed a lot on the battle forums.

Meanwhile Doctor Doom, while he is indeed more powerful than Batman, his REGULAR powers does NOT allow him to beat high-tier abstract entities. Yet people have no problem with him prepping against high-tier abstract entities, while something as simple as Batman vs Mewtwo gets locked almost instantly --> http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/batman-vs-mewtwo-1583137/

@reasonablecomicsfan: I have no knowledge on anime mewtwo other than info I've read on other threads. But if what I read holds true, that's BS. Batman can develop a suit or some form of technology that protects him from psychic attacks and mind rape. 6 months is a long time. I honestly don't know why that thread was locked. If if were doom vs mewtwo everyone would say doom and it'd probably still be open for debate.

Batman is nowhere near as intelligent as Dr. Doom for one thing. Another thing is that he doesnt typically use universal items of power as part of his plans, whereas Doom has been known to do that.

Doom's standard gear seems to get low balled by some.

@greatcaesarsghost said:

Doom's standard gear seems to get low balled by some.

lol @ lowballing claims. As if those standard gear can stand up against the likes of Rune King Thor and Galactus.

Doctor Doom needs prep to be able to stand a chance against cosmic entities.

The main difference between Dr Doom and Batman's prep is that Batman needs more effort and prep-time to accomplish the same feats.

No rules against having enormous amount of prep-time? Then there's not much difference between the two character's prep.

In fact Batman can be better than Doctor Doom in certain aspects.

I find Doom to be overhyped on the Vine, but that's just me I guess.

I agree I'm a huge Batman and even I think people have and do overrate what he can do with prep sometimes. However it seems especially lately that people are severely underrating him. It almost feels like people are underrating as a way of getting back at overzealous Batman fans who think he can beat anyone. At this point he's definitely more underrated than overrated. The worst double standard is the people who complain Batman is overpowered, beats characters he has no business fighting, unstoppable with prep, too smart, too skilled, BatGod etc. But have no problem with Doom who is much worse than Batman when it comes to being OP and beating much stronger characters, being great at everything: 2nd smartest human on Earth, master sorcerer, leads his own country so diplomatic immunity, can kill a lion with his bare hands, is able to regularly challenge a smarter man who has the help of 3 other superhumans, has taken over the world multiple times, power jacked Gods, "DOOM DIDN'T LOSE IT WAS A DOOMBOT YOU FOOL LOLZ!" and so much more. If Batman is BatGod what does that make Doom?

And Doom is nowhere near as intelligent as Thanos yet I've seen threads where people say Doom could beat Thanos. Besides it's not like it's impossible to beat a character that's smarter than you. Hard yes but not Aunt May vs Galactus levels of impossible. After all Doom has beaten characters that are way more powerful and/or powerful than he is so I'd give Batman a shot of beating him on a rare occasion.

1. Doom is a sorcerer with access to things Batman can't 2. Doom is smarter and in ways that help prep against high level threats 3. Doom has feats that show he can deal with Skyfather level+ people unlike Batman who's only notable feats are someone else using his plans to almost defeat the Justice League and a suit that is in every way inferior to Amazo and runs out of juice very fast.

@night4345: Doom is much richer, has more man power and a larger pool of resources to pull from.

Plus, Doom's PIS force > Batman's.

So you don't think Doom being able to deal with Skyfather level beings is huge PIS? Doom should be a gnat to characters that strong but of course his internet darling status will have people ignore that fact. Forget the fact that Doom has no business fighting characters like that he's not overexposed like Batman so it's ok... I don't get how people accept Doom (a smart human but still just a human) beating God like beings but think Batman has no chance in Hell against a fellow human in Doom. Yeah Doom is smarter and has magic but he's not a God if Doom himself can beat someone out of his league I think someone like Batman could too.

I'm surprised you admitted Doom has more PIS considering your hate for Batman.

@jack_donaghy: It's not PIS if he does it time and time again. Doom isn't a normal human no matter how you slice it. He knows a variety of spells and tech that allow him to deal with high tier and up threats even without prep. They aren't similar at all so stop trying to compare them.

@night4345 said:

It's not PIS if he does it time and time again. Doom isn't a normal human no matter how you slice it. He knows a variety of spells and tech that allow him to deal with high tier and up threats even without prep. They aren't similar at all so stop trying to compare them.

Doctor Doom is a normal human who just happened to be extremely intelligent and talented. Same as Batman but at a higher level. End of story. They are very similar in that aspect so stop giving the implication that Doctor Doom isn't subject to the same weaknesses that other peak humans have.

Doctor Doom fans are just going to say "Doctor Doom is no mere human"... and deliberately ignoring the opinion that "Batman is no mere human".

End of the day, if Doctor Doom, a human who through his own effort is able to achieve skills and abilities that allow him to beat Skyfather/Abstract entities, Batman can do it too.

Nobody is saying that a typical peak human is as good as Doctor Doom, but we are saying that same peak human can possibly achieve Doctor Doom-level feats by putting in more effort and more prep-time than Doctor Doom does. Therefore the double standard exist here.

@reasonablecomicsfan: Doom isn't peak human... He has his super-strength and durability due to his armor along with mystical attacks and defenses. Batman has no feats that show he can do what Doom has. That's not opinion, it's fact. deal with it. It doesn't lower Batman and his abilities.

Oh boy... so if Batman were to be able to beat Superman up time and time again would that make it any less PIS? If Batman consistently outsmarted Braniac would you not think of it as PIS? Just because he does it consistently doesn't mean he should be able to. And is Batman a normal human either? With all the complaints of him being OP and unrealistic I'd say he isn't. Doom shouldn't be able to stand toe to toe with Gods anymore than Batman does he is a human not a God. Therefore Godlike characters should lolstomp him but because of PIS and fanboy acceptance he is able to fight people out of his league.

@jack_donaghy: Never said PIS is exclusive to Batman, Superman has eye rolling PIS feats too ans I've always admitted it.

You say Batman can't take the JL and you're anti-Batman.

@jack_donaghy: If he did it consistently and it actually makes sense then yes. The problem is Batman wasn't made to beat characters like Superman. He's a detective that solves crimes and fights low to high street levelers. Shoehorning him into being this uber prep badass really doesn't work within his own mythos. Doom doesn't have this problem because he was created to be Reed Richards equal or superior who regularly tangles with beings beyond his power but wins using his intellect. In a actual fight Godlike beings would stomp Doom into the ground just like Superman would to Batman. This thread has been done several times and I'm not going to waste more of my time saying the same arguments that have been said dozens of times.

I don't know why this is such a hot topic. There are going to be characters who are stronger/faster/better at certain things than our favorite characters. It is just the way it is.

Dr Doom is more powerful than Batman. That is just the way it is. Sorcery, unbelievable tech suit, unbelievable tech feats and a long history of brilliant prep. Batman is a high end street leveler who is capable of doing awesome things, with or without prep.

But in any competition with someone like Doom, Batman is in a massive hole, because he is not as powerful. He is merely a human. That's not a knock. That is embracing the character for what he is designed for. To be the best possible human he can be. And as a human, he will often come up short to more powerful beings.

I don't understand a need to elevate Batman to a level that he is not at... it actually diminishes him. Batman is awesome where he is at.

@reasonablecomicsfan said:

@deaditegonzo said:

Batman is nowhere near as intelligent as Dr. Doom for one thing. Another thing is that he doesnt typically use universal items of power as part of his plans, whereas Doom has been known to do that.

@greatcaesarsghost said:

Doom's standard gear seems to get low balled by some.

lol @ lowballing claims. As if those standard gear can stand up against the likes of Rune King Thor and Galactus.

Doctor Doom needs prep to be able to stand a chance against cosmic entities.

I don't recall saying that. As if any of this matters either way. Fictional characters gonna be fictional.

I hate that "he was created to be a detective argument" if we're using that Superman was originally fighting corrupt politicians and gangsters. He was more of a street leveler who couldn't bench the weight of the Earth for 5 days straight, couldn't fly, no heat vision, no freeze breath, etc. The Flash didn't start off being able to run at light speed, GL was weak to wood and other major differences. Besides there can be more than 1 interpretation of a character. Just like there can be darker Nolan/Miller Batman stories there can also be lighthearted Adam West/Brave and the Bold style stories. Why can't he be a detective AND a uber badass prep master? Characters get upgrades all the time and it's not like being good at prep contradicts or takes away from his detective roots he can be both. If Doom can be a world class scientist and world class sorcerer I don't see the problem. Just because you and others want a weaker Batman doesn't mean there can't be stronger versions.

No I think you're anti Batman because you yourself have said in the past you hate Batman. And you constantly go into threads bashing him THAT's why I and others think you're anti Batman.

@jack_donaghy: Last time. Batman can be either a detective with amazing fighting skills that fights street levelers or he can be prep master that fights high tier and up characters. He can't be both. If he's so good at prep that he can fight powerful characters like that why does he have any trouble with his regular rogues gallery? That's the problem, Superman and the Flash have had their gallery changed and evolved to suit their abilities better. Batman's hasn't.

Really so when Flash fights Captain Cold or Captain Boomerang they're on his level all of a sudden? Honestly Flash is a character who because of his speed could beat the entire JL by himself are you saying he's not ridiculously stronger than his villains? When Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four struggle with the likes of the Frightful Four does that mean they can't go face cosmic level threats? Hell realistically Lex wouldn't be a threat to Superman but he's been a Superman villain for decades. And don't say "Oh well Lex was made to fight Superman so it's ok" When Superman has shown he can beat people like Braniac and Darkseid a bald guy in a suit doesn't seem so threatening. Spider-Man is much stronger than the mostly street level villains and bank robbers he fights on a daily basis. Why can't he be both?

Just because you say he has to be one or the other doesn't mean he can't be both. You don't seem to think Doom has to stick to either sorcery or badass prep master but Batman does?

Doom is only above peak human because of his self-made enhancements such as armor and sorcery.

Take that away, he's peak human.

Meanwhile, its the same for Batman.

Batman is above peak human with his self-made armor and his tactic implementation that allows him to take on characters way above his weight class.