Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

I like consistency in characters, stories, and universes...

So, it goes without saying that I have to accept many of the things in the comic universe that just don't...fit...or make sense. But at some point, shouldn't there really be an editor who reads a story before it's accepted for publication and says, "No, you can't print this story; it doesn't fit... or, it doesn't make sense... or, it's just plain stupid..."

For example. Here's a scene from x-men legacy 267 in which some Avengers are fighting some of the X-Men at the Jean Grey school. Btw, there was a REALLY good reason for the fight. Frenzy called Moon knight crazy, so he attacked her... How dare anyone call Moon Knight crazy?! I just bet his Wolverine split personality wanted to KILL Frenzy for that insult. Anyway, the scene clearly shows Kitty Pryde phasing through Iron Man's suit and him CLEARLY stating that he has counter measures against just that sort of thing...

Okay, so what's the problem? If we can accept that Tony Stark can build metallic suits with electrical circuits that the Master of Magnetism can't affect, it's VERY easy to accept that he has counter measures to Kitty's phasing ability. In fact, he even has a suit that can phase. So what's the problem?

Well, only weeks later, in the new A+X (002), Tony Stark seems to have COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN that Kitty's phasing power affects electrical circuits.

Shouldn't there be SOMEONE at Marvel who finds that odd??????????

Okay, so what else? Well, most of us remember Peter Parker outing himself during Marvel Civil War. And we know that everyone was made to forget courtesy of Dr. Strange, Reed Richards, and Tony Stark.... So, what's the problem? Well, now everyone just seems to know... No explanation, no exposition, no nada... '

Well, okay, there was a little blurb at the end of Spider Island where Dr. Strange explains that the spell was weakened... But that's IT??? Not even a nervous, Peter Parker saying, "Hey, everyone seems to remember my secret identity!" And why isn't he worried that the rest of the world will start remembering who he is? Shouldn't a Marvel editor SOMEWHERE think, "Hey, we really should explain this..."

Oh, and speaking that that scene from The Amazing Spider-Man 689... How about that new pacifist, 'Never kill anyone except Hope' Wolverine?

Seriously? NOONE at Marvel thought, "Hey...You know...Having the pacifist peace loving never kill anyone version of Wolverine tell Spider-Man, "It's okay to kill a brooken and dying old man," is sort of...not right.....

Do the writers at Marvel not bother reading each others work? Do they not have meetings to discuss things? at all? Seriously??? These are only a few examples. Am I just expecting too much?

#1 Posted by Owie (3690 posts) - - Show Bio

Unfortunately I think the Marvel "Architects" now essentially outrank the editors, and are too full of their own stories to worry about stuff like that.  But I am a fan of continuity so I am onboard here with you.

#2 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@Owie: Well... That makes two of us... I guess that's a start.

#3 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@Owie said:

Unfortunately I think the Marvel "Architects" now essentially outrank the editors, and are too full of their own stories to worry about stuff like that. But I am a fan of continuity so I am onboard here with you.

Alonso has shown in interviews that he could not care less about continuity, at this point Marvel just lets the writers do whatever they want and then choose to fix by retcon or ignore down the road. The Architects and "name"writers have all the pull now and apparently do not give a sh!t about fitting their title into a shared universe, they still think they are working on an indie book where this does not matter.

#4 Posted by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel you bra'! But this is a fruitless battle. Marvel continuity is ALL but ignored these days. I was going back through my digital copies of Silver Surfer and was pleasantly reminded of all the blurbs indicating when certain events took place in continutiy. No kidding. Comic and issue.

Damn I miss the old days.

#5 Posted by danhimself (22490 posts) - - Show Bio

Tony's anti-Magneto suit is made of nonmagnetic materials....Kitty's powers sort out ALL electronic equipment when she phases through them...there is no way to build an armor that isn't affected by Kitty's power

Spider-man revealed his identity to the Avengers and Fantastic Four...it's just easier for him and the others if they know his identity....no one will just remember his identity....the spell that made everyone forget his identity also made it so that no one will be able to figure it out without Peter telling them...when Peter used his powers on film during Spider-Island he weakened that portion of the spell that kept people from figuring his identity out...so while no one will remember that he unmasked they will be able to put the pieces together and figure it out on their own now

#6 Posted by danhimself (22490 posts) - - Show Bio

I also don't remember Wolverine taking any pacifist stance....at this point he's still a member of X-Force and even killed his own son last issue

#7 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@Malevolent1: @Brazen_Intellect said:

@Owie said:

Unfortunately I think the Marvel "Architects" now essentially outrank the editors, and are too full of their own stories to worry about stuff like that. But I am a fan of continuity so I am onboard here with you.

Alonso has shown in interviews that he could not care less about continuity, at this point Marvel just lets the writers do whatever they want and then choose to fix by retcon or ignore down the road. The Architects and "name"writers have all the pull now and apparently do not give a sh!t about fitting their title into a shared universe, they still think they are working on an indie book where this does not matter.

I wonder... Does this mean I really AM just too old for comic books? (and I am much older than most comic book readers.)

But, I prefer characters to remain who they are, and stories to remain what they were. I feel like we lose much when the past can just be changed at random...

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@danhimself: So, when exactly did Peter reveal his identity (again) to the Avengers. I've completely missed it and I read The Avengers, New Avengers, The Amazing Spider-Man, Avenging Spider-Man, FF, The Fantastic Four, Iron Man, etc... I've not seen an issue where he up and tells them his secret identity... I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't recall reading it. Can you tell me where it happened?

When I commented on "Wolverine's pacifist stance" I was being a bit sarcastic. However, that was sort of the point of Schism. He drew the line and said the children should be involved in no danger whatsoever. Also, in spite of wanting to kill Hope (at first),and having a higher body count than just about anything else on the planet, he was incredibly judgmental about Scott killing professor Xavier. Sure it was horrible that Scott killed the Prof. but Scott WAS under the influence of the Pheonix... Consider how Wolverine reacted towards Jean Grey even though she destroyed an entire SOLAR SYSTEM (or was it a galaxy?). Jean Grey (as the Pheonix) literally killed BILLIONS of people... Scott Summers killed one... But Wolverine's reaction to Scott was VERY VERY different than his reaction to Jean. With Jean, Wolverine showed understanding and compassion. With Jean, Wolverine understood that it was the Pheonix (and not Jean) that was responsible for the deaths of innocents... But with Scott, he's ready to kill him... See the difference?

Consider how many people Wolverine kills each time he's possessed. Sometimes he kills his own friends, in fact, it happened just recently... His own sort of 'adopted daughter' made a comment like, "Oh no, Logan! Not again!" She was referring to the number of times he gets possessed and goes on killing sprees. So, Scott gets possessed by, literally, one of the most powerful forces in the Universe and Wolverine wants to kill him; literally. But Wolverine gets possessed by demons, kills lots of people, and it's understandable?

So, the point is, even though Wolverine has been involved in GOBS AND GOBS of killing, and sometimes that's because he's possessed or mislead, he NOW (all of the sudden) adopts this, "it's wrong to kill for any reason EVER" attitude, even though he still leads X-Force...

And all of this is coming from a Wolverine Fan-boy so it's not a question of being biased against Wolverine.... I just want more continuity...

#8 Posted by danhimself (22490 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: I can't remember when exactly it was...I think I have it in my pics so I'll have to dig through that but I remember Jessica Jones telling him that she used to have a huge crush on him in high school and that made for some funny comments from Cage but there was also a time when he made a big deal about not getting paid as an Avenger because he wouldn't tell Captain America or Victoria Hand his identity for fear of someone else taking over S.H.I.E.L.D

you also have to think that Wolverine has never really liked Cyclops...he may have grown to respect him but he's never liked him

he's in love with Jean and in his mind she can do no wrong so of course he would forgive her

The Professor was the person who Wolverine trusted and looked up to more than anyone else on earth so Cyclops killing him (possessed or not) would be something that Wolverine would never forgive

it really doesn't matter if Cyclops was possessed at the time or not...it's just another reason for Wolverine to hate him

#9 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@Timandm: I can't remember when exactly it was...I think I have it in my pics so I'll have to dig through that but I remember Jessica Jones telling him that she used to have a huge crush on him in high school and that made for some funny comments from Cage but there was also a time when he made a big deal about not getting paid as an Avenger because he wouldn't tell Captain America or Victoria Hand his identity for fear of someone else taking over S.H.I.E.L.D

you also have to think that Wolverine has never really liked Cyclops...he may have grown to respect him but he's never liked him

he's in love with Jean and in his mind she can do no wrong so of course he would forgive her

The Professor was the person who Wolverine trusted and looked up to more than anyone else on earth so Cyclops killing him (possessed or not) would be something that Wolverine would never forgive

it really doesn't matter if Cyclops was possessed at the time or not...it's just another reason for Wolverine to hate him

Ah, what you're referring to, happened BEFORE everyone's memory was wiped by Doc Strange and Reed Richards. That happened in New Avengers volume 1... BEFORE Civil War... But everyone's memory was wiped AFTER Civil War. So, why do they, all of the sudden, now remember who he is?

I have to agree with you on the whole, Wolverine not liking Cyclops thing... It's sad, but prior to Schism I liked the direction their relationship was going. They were finally starting to not only respect each other but maybe even like each other as friends...

#10 Posted by danhimself (22490 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@danhimself said:

@Timandm: I can't remember when exactly it was...I think I have it in my pics so I'll have to dig through that but I remember Jessica Jones telling him that she used to have a huge crush on him in high school and that made for some funny comments from Cage but there was also a time when he made a big deal about not getting paid as an Avenger because he wouldn't tell Captain America or Victoria Hand his identity for fear of someone else taking over S.H.I.E.L.D

you also have to think that Wolverine has never really liked Cyclops...he may have grown to respect him but he's never liked him

he's in love with Jean and in his mind she can do no wrong so of course he would forgive her

The Professor was the person who Wolverine trusted and looked up to more than anyone else on earth so Cyclops killing him (possessed or not) would be something that Wolverine would never forgive

it really doesn't matter if Cyclops was possessed at the time or not...it's just another reason for Wolverine to hate him

Ah, what you're referring to, happened BEFORE everyone's memory was wiped by Doc Strange and Reed Richards. That happened in New Avengers volume 1... BEFORE Civil War... But everyone's memory was wiped AFTER Civil War. So, why do they, all of the sudden, now remember who he is?

I have to agree with you on the whole, Wolverine not liking Cyclops thing... It's sad, but prior to Schism I liked the direction their relationship was going. They were finally starting to not only respect each other but maybe even like each other as friends...

this was definitely after Civil War and during Dark Reign since Bucky was present during the conversation and the talk about being paid was after Dark Reign and after Captain America came back and was in charge of the Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D.

#11 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: You're right! That's from New Avengers 51 (volume 1.) It's around the beginning of Dark Reign... I'd forgotten that... for some reason, I was thinking it was near the beginning of New Avengers, but, not even close...

I need to go back and read the second volume of New Avengers... For some reason, I was thinking none of them knew his real identity, but this is clearly after Civil War (as you said) and before Dark Reign... In fact, this is when Hawkeye is still going by the persona of "Ronin" and Bucky is the on the team and Steve Rogers is dead 'at the moment.'

I think part of my confusion comes from the conversation where Spider-Man doesn't get a pay check because he won't give his real identity to "Normal Osbourne's best friend" (I think that's what Spidey called her.)

And it just this moment came back to me that he re-revealed his identity to the Fantastic Four when they were on a mission to one of those other dimensions and Johnny was pissed off that they didn't know who he was.... Man, this is hard to keep track of...

#12 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

Tony's anti-Magneto suit is made of nonmagnetic materials....Kitty's powers sort out ALL electronic equipment when she phases through them...there is no way to build an armor that isn't affected by Kitty's power

Spider-man revealed his identity to the Avengers and Fantastic Four...it's just easier for him and the others if they know his identity....no one will just remember his identity....the spell that made everyone forget his identity also made it so that no one will be able to figure it out without Peter telling them...when Peter used his powers on film during Spider-Island he weakened that portion of the spell that kept people from figuring his identity out...so while no one will remember that he unmasked they will be able to put the pieces together and figure it out on their own now

Dr Doom's armor is not affected by Kitty's phasing, his force field does not allow her to pass through him. She tried back in Excalibur and Doom pretty much laughed at her.

Iron Man's armor has a force field system that fortifies the entire suit structure, add that to the fact he has phasing tech himself and there is no way he has not developed a defense by now if not 20 suits ago.

Writers change what works and does not work against Iron Man all the time based on storyline ( EMP, magnetics, etc) so it's vary hard to have a definitive answer to a lot of things, but IMO this is by far more likely.

#13 Posted by Mercy_ (92684 posts) - - Show Bio

lol continuity.

Moderator
#14 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

lol continuity.

Marvel..DC..Vine RPG..no one is safe...

ONE RING TO REBOOT THEM ALL !

#15 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect said:

@Mercy_ said:

lol continuity.

Marvel..DC..Vine RPG..no one is safe...

ONE RING TO REBOOT THEM ALL !

That would be a powerful ring indeed.