Does this mean Luke is weaker than Sidious?

Since the EU was determined non canon by disney, and in the movies Sidious was easily overpowering Luke, is he now weaker than Sidious, and no longer the strongest force user to have ever existed?

I guess that it could have changed after 30 years. If he is that powerful, we will probably see it on screen.

ROTJ Luke was never close to Sidious anyway.

EU post-ROTJ Luke is who is more powerful than Sidious.

So.. yeah.

Well isn't Sidius dead now? If so, Luke IS the strongest force user, since Vader is dead too.

Indeed. Hope they show him to have become a master in the upcoming films.

I didn't say the most powerful force user alive, I said the most powerful to have ever existed, which he isn't.

@brolytard1337: Oh well of course. Wouldn't it be a bit boring to have a player like that? He probably wouldn't need the other Jedi.

@guardiandevil83: Indeed. But if that's the case, then he's not even the strongest Jedi to ever exist now. He's pretty much one of those mediocre Jedi Masters with a generic power set.

@brolytard1337:

Not necessarily. He did defeat Vader which is an impressive dueling feat. Especially given his lack of experience in comparison to either Vader or Palpatine.

This also means Darth Sidious isn't some sort of planet destroying super dark side god anymore, which I like. I don't mind him being stronger than Yoda, but him being massively stronger than Yoda is something I always found stupid. There's no balance in that at all. Yoda is considered one of the most powerful jedi in history, he should be a match for the most powerful sith in history.

Luke is the son of the Chosen One and should be capable of going beyond either of them in time.

@metaljimmor: So, does this mean that Nihilus would beat Sidious in a fight now?

Yes. I do hope that he's shown to be more powerful than just a generic Jedi master though in this next trilogy

Sidious isn't some planet destroying super dark side god. He was capable of draining/ravaging/siphoning all of the life on a planet through extensive preparation time, but he doesn't just destroy planets on a whim like you're making out.

He wasn't massively stronger than Yoda when they fought in Revenge of the Sith, and Sidious wasn't nearly as powerful then as he became later. Yoda is likely around the third most powerful Force user in galactic history along with guys like Plagueis, but Sidious is just on another level post-RotJ. And that doesn't even necessarily mean he's some stupid-powerful godlike planet buster like you seem to think. You know who matched the most powerful Sith Lord in history after Yoda? Luke Skywalker. He was the most powerful Jedi in galactic history by a stretch, just like Sidious was for the Sith. That's where the balance lies. If you're upset that Yoda wasn't on that level of power during RotS I'm sorry, but frankly him and Sidious are just on different levels. They weren't during RotS, but after that the gap in their power just grew and grew because of Sidious' connection to the Force. He's the ultimate Sith. The ultimate threat to the Force. He was through his own willpower tearing the Force apart and disrupting the entire balance, and came close to overwriting the prophecy of the downfall of the Sith. Luke was the one who was powerful enough to stop him. That's how it was.

Nihilus isn't canon either. You'd have to purposely match up Legends Nihilus with Canon Sidious to allow Nihilus to win that fight. If you used both Legends versions Nihilus would get annihilated.

Why are people to fixated with Sidious being too powerful, or finding characters who can beat him? It's just silly. The character is how he is. There's no changing that and there's nothing wrong with it.

@i_like_swords: But...Luke never stopped Sidious, he was getting thrashed in fact. Vader stopped Sidious.

That was during RotJ. I was talking about post-RotJ when Sidious transferred his essence into a younger clone body and came back more powerful than ever, while Luke gradually reached his potential and became the Jedi Grandmaster.

This. Only time will really tell.

@i_like_swords: Wait what? Nihilus isn't canon? I thought just stuff from post Rotj was considered non canon?

@nitsua: Nope, all existing EU is now considered "Legends". Only future EU will be considered in-canon with the main timeline.

1. It's dumb, in my opinion, that because Disney wants to tell 100% "their story" that the EU isn't wholly considered canon anymore.
2. In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda and Sidious always seemed equal to me. It just seems that Yoda gives up. Maybe he knew he couldn't win? I don't know. But Yoda appeared equal. I think Yoda ranks only behind Sidious and Luke in terms of power and skill as a Jedi. Personal opinion.
3. Luke wasn't as powerful as Sidious in ROTJ, but he also wasn't trying to fight or resist Sidious. He wanted his suffering to bring Anakin back to the Light Side.
4. Luke, in the years after ROTJ, becomes far and away the most powerful Jedi/Force user ever in my opinion. Even before becoming Grandmaster and mastering both sides of the Force.

All my opinions, obviously.

@granitesoldier:

1. I agree completely. The EU is fine how it is.. although I suppose editing/retconning post-ROTJ could help with the movies, and could also give us an opportunity to read even more new EU content. But doing away with the entire existing EU was terrible.

2. They were relatively equal but Yoda was losing. You're right - he did know he couldn't win. In the novelization Yoda acknowledges his own defeat and you can sorta tell in the film when he chooses to leave, stating "failed, I have"

3. True. Still, Sidious woulda creamed him. He was torturing Luke with his lightning when he likely could have close-to-one shotted him with it.

4. Probably. I don't know much at all about post-ROTJ Star Wars - I just knew that Luke was the one that was intended to be able to challenge Sidious. That responsibility didn't solely lie with Yoda in terms of balancing out character power levels or whatever.

@i_like_swords:

It was an opinion man. I said I didn't LIKE Sidious that strong. I didn't say that I didn't understand the story.

@metaljimmor: You said Sidious is some godlike planet buster, which is false.

You said there was no balance because Yoda wasn't able to challenge Sidious - but Luke was there to keep the balance after he grew in power.

Just saying, it seems like you made up your own ideas about Sidious without really knowing much about him.

@i_like_swords:

Exaggeration is a thing people do when speaking about things they dislike.

Luke isn't like Yoda and Sidious. His lineage should put him at a level beyond either of them. To me, Yoda is the opposite force to Sidious, and as it stands the dark side is much, much stronger.

I was reading another thread with you in it recently. I've read many, but in this particular one you insisted that you didn't like Sidious as a character either. Yet here you are defending him as a character from my opinion.

Though to your credit you did manage to educate me on a couple points. I didn't know about the whole "Ripping a part of the Force and almost rewriting the prophecy of the Chosen One" thing. Unfortunately, that did not in any way lessen my view that the EU made Sidious into a grossly overpowered character.

@metaljimmor: I don't like Sidious, but I just don't like how people think he's stupid overpowered or think he's a casual planet buster, because it doesn't represent the franchise very well. But your opinion is more to do with the Yoda thing, so fair enough man.

Hell - at least we agree that Sidious sucks :p

No.

He overpowered Luke while he throwed his lightsaber. True Palpatine was stronger but saying ''overpowered'' not fair at that point.

Yeah. This Thread really made me think about this issue, thanks TC.

I'm not sure, while every EU writer in the past has always tried to make their Jedi/Sith the most badass there was, we always had the undeniable fact that Luke was stated by Lucas to be the most powerful. I think the answer to this question is ALL going to be in the three new cast member's roles. They will either be the new Kyle Katarn tiers, or the new stronger more advanced generation Jedi. This also means we can throw The Old Republic Eras out the door too. Though TOR era made Technology progress in the Star Wars Galaxy very slow and stagnate imo, I don't think 90s New Republic and Legacy writers considered Millennia of Jedi and Sith conflicts.

But yes, no Emperor Reborn, no Solo kids, no Vong......Disney will have to make the original cast make up for all that was just lost.

That said I want Chewbacca to get a Lightsaber. It's just an image I wanna see lol. His Nephew was a Jedi in the EU.

@i_like_swords:

That's true I suppose. I wish Yoda was given more representation overall. Sidious got a lot more love in the comics.

Agreed. Sidius does suck! He killed Kit Fisto! T.T My favorite jedi from a design perspective.

Granted without the EU I suppose Kit Fisto is completely featless. Is the Clone Wars series still considered canon at least?

@metaljimmor: Yeah, TCW is considered canon (I kind of hate it, though.. so I don't care). I don't really care about the canon thing at all to be honest. I just consider Legends, or the Original EU, to be it's own timeline.

@i_like_swords:

Eh, I find TCW enjoyable. There are aspects of it I hate, like Anakin having an apprentice and Grievous having to resort to using Magnaguards to defeat jedi knights. But at the same time that animated Anakin feels more organic than the live action one to me, and Obi-Wan remains entertaining as ever.