• 94 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Edited 1 year, 8 days ago

Poll: Does the Change in 'Avengers 2' Matter? (Comic Book Question of the Week VOTING) (334 votes)

Yes, it's a big change and I'm not exactly happy about it. 35%
No, I have faith in Joss Whedon and he'll make it work. 37%
It's too early to tell. Let's wait and see. 27%

It turns out the second Avengers movie will be an origin story for Ultron but it won't include the man who creates the villain: Hank Pym. Does this change matter to you? Get your vote on, Viners.

#1 Posted by Black_Arrow (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, it is a big change. I will not see the movie if Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. And if Iron man created him, I will not see any movies from Marvel

#2 Posted by Cap10nate (2160 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm OK with it. I would obviously prefer that Hank Pym be the originator of Ultron. However, how the Marvel Cinematic Universe is set up, it would definitely make more sense for Stark to accidentally create him (If that is the route they are planning on taking). It would have more emotional impact than just introducing Hank for a few minutes before he creates Ultron.

I hope they do it justice as Ultron is one of my top two favorite villains (with Kang) and give us a great and entertaining movie.

#3 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

It's way too early to tell. I'm waiting until we actually see how it plays out, and if the change is the wiser decision, but I have faith in Whedon.

#4 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's that big a a deal, even for comic readers. We all have long ago accepted that our favorite heroes and villains have to be adapted to be put on the big screen, and that sometimes for the sake of the overall story one of two might be slighted. Marvel has shown an incredibly ability for long term planning in their Cinematic Universe, whether its making their characters not as powerful as their comic versions, connecting all of the movies and characters via cameos, focusing on one over the other, or making changes to characters (the Mandarin, moving on to a new Hulk, Ultron, Electro, Nick Fury, etc.). I personally don't see the reason for outrage, Marvel is making what they deem is the best choice for all fans of their movies. Tony Stark is far and away their most popular character right now, thanks to his movies and general exposure, so continuing to focus on him and allowing him to create Ultron makes perfect sense. Marvel's building characters, showing back-stories, and allowing them to make mistakes and grow from them. Stark's progression throughout the movies has been great to watch. Too much is at stake to slip in Pym's character into Avengers 2, and seeing any movie (not just those related to comics) make changes to characters and the story isn't anything new in life. The fact remains that comic readers are not the only people who watch comic book related movies.

Pym will have his shot with his solo film, if he delivers that will force Marvel to make room for his character among the "big guns" in the Cinematic Universe. Every character has a part to play, none off them are bigger than the team (something the The Avengers showed us) Whedon created in my opinion one of the best comic book movies ever with The Avengers, and word is he wants the sequel to be more character driven and focused on the characters. I have absolute faith in him to bring about another amazing film, one that surpasses and improves upon the previous. Whether it is Pym or Stark creating Ultron, I can't wait for the movie to be released.

#5 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

Whedon can make it work.

#6 Edited by cameron83 (6748 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm OK with it. I would obviously prefer that Hank Pym be the originator of Ultron. However, how the Marvel Cinematic Universe is set up, it would definitely make more sense for Stark to accidentally create him (If that is the route they are planning on taking). It would have more emotional impact than just introducing Hank for a few minutes before he creates Ultron.

I hope they do it justice as Ultron is one of my top two favorite villains (with Kang) and give us a great and entertaining movie.

I mean,yeah I can see why they would choose so if Stark creates him,but it just basically takes away huge parts of 2 characters....but whatever.

I am pretty excited,especially because of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver,but I hope this movie doesn't blow. I don't even know if it'll be as good as the first.

#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

@xanni15: This is really not fair to the fans or the character, this is like making a film about Superman getting a side kick then the Joker beating him to death with a crowbar then said sidekick coming back as an enemy. If you cant introduce Ultron right why use him at all? Why not use Kang or someone else? They can't even mange to slip Hank Pym in to the movie yet they can fit in fake Quicksilver and fake Scarlet Witch? What a joke.

#8 Posted by DedrabbiT (518 posts) - - Show Bio

It is definitely a big change, I dont see why they couldn't involve Pym at some level in the movie. And I will be pissed if his origin is mostly about Tony Stark...

That being said, marvel has a pretty good track record and I do enjoy their films. So I will still give this a chance. Unless some other news comes out that is completely bonkers.

#9 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

considering non comic book readers dont know anything about hank pym, laugh off his powers (and name) and his movie might bomb big time, i am not bugged by the change.

#10 Edited by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@xanni15: This is really not fair to the fans or the character, this is like making a film about Superman getting a side kick then the Joker beating him to death with a crowbar then said sidekick coming back as an enemy. If you cant introduce Ultron right why use him at all? Why not use Kang or someone else? They can't even mange to slip Hank Pym in to the movie yet they can fit in fake Quicksilver and fake Scarlet Witch? What a joke.

I don't think it's that big of a change, but I respect your opinion. One character's origin story is being changed to better fit in with the rest of the Cinematic Universe, that's what it boils down to. We have no idea how Pym's solo movie will turn out, if it bombs then Marvel has an extra character around with Ultron being attached to Stark, if it is successful then Pym becomes a main part of the films going forward and gets to flesh out more of his character. Slipping in Pym is no small feat, especially if you want him to be Ultron's creator. Can't just say "Here's Dr. Pym, he created Ultron, now watch as he disappears the rest of the movie." Also, we still don't know all the facts associated with Ultron's creation in the movie, perhaps Whedon is holding major stuff back. Based off Avengers I can't help but have faith in him.

#11 Posted by xrs10 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought I would be seeing so many people be annoyed by this seeing as all people do is criticise Singer for changing the X-Men films, but whatdya know, a lot of marvel fans are just hypocrites. They are changing an origin of a character and everyone is all "In Whedon we trust". I'm not too fussed about the change to be honest, it will be an iron man armour story. I get it because he is marvels poster boy, but they are changing an origin way too much.

#12 Posted by cyberchop979 (451 posts) - - Show Bio

In Joss I Trust

#13 Posted by Trevel8182 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

It's called the Avengers not Iron Man and his Amazing friends and if you take Ultron away from Hank in the Marvel Ciniamtic Universe you take Ultron away from Hank Pym in all medium's I wouldn't be surprised if in Avengers Assemble season 2 Tony Stark created Ultron or Marvel's 2016 comic book event being about Tony Stark creating his own Ultron. Ultron is Hank Pym's biggest contribution to Marvel universe the one constant in his character Marvel's taken his wife Taken Pym Particles and theyve taken Ant-Man from him taking Ultron away is taking one of his biggest of pillers in his character but sure I can't wait the see Joss Whedon's Batman movie where Bruce Wayne's parent's don't die or his Captain America movie where he get's his power's from a radioactive Eagle.

Please reconsider Joss please!

#14 Edited by hardcorefakes (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Forget Ultron. WTF about Thanos? Did he just shit on him?

#15 Edited by queenofs2s (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's over reacting. Really, I mean when are comics geeks (including myself, I admit) understand that a movie is an INTERPRETATION of something, not the exact story? I mean yeah there's all the capitalist intentions behind it but think of your most beloved comics inspired movie and it WILL be there no matter what. People, if we can accept calmly and even welcome new world, new dimensions where EVERYTHING is COMPLETELY different, why can't we accept that in the movie it's like it's Whedon's new earth or something? Forget about it, the perfect comics movie will NEVER exist, something will always be left out or changed or cut. This is ONE version. Don't hate on it for being different.

#16 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5967 posts) - - Show Bio

I will be mad and happy if Jarvis turned into Ultron.

#17 Posted by Lvenger (18485 posts) - - Show Bio

It's too early to tell how it will play out. Even though I'm not thrilled with this decision to change an essential aspect of Hank Pym and Ultron's history, I'm glad Ultron is the foe in this second Avengers film. We'll need to wait and see for more information and not jump to the overreactive comic book fan conclusion that we won't go and see and we'll boycott all of Marvel's movies etc.

#19 Posted by Wolverine08 (38992 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man building Ultron makes sense within the context of the MCU, and Joss is one really talented director, and one of the few I would trust to make changes deviate from the source material without destroying the movie. I'm fine with the change.

Online
#22 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it doesn't matter. The movies hardly ever get the details right. I mean the first movie didn't reflect the comic exactly. Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Cap weren't original Avengers. Hawkeye wasn't a Shield agent. The movie was still good thouigh.

#23 Posted by k4tzm4n (36474 posts) - - Show Bio

"It's too early to tell. Let's wait and see" has a lot of votes?

HUZZAH FOR BEING RATIONAL!!!!!!!!!

Staff
#24 Edited by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly care more about seeing Ultron than I do Hank Pym.

Moderator
#25 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

@xanni15: The creation of Ultron is every bit as important to the characters as Death in the Family was to Batman or the Night Gwen Stacy Died was to Spider-Man. What you think including Pym would be to hard yet introducing Wand and Pietro, two characters that will be 90% different from the source material is all good?

#26 Edited by RustyRoy (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, it is a big change. I will not see the movie if Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. And if Iron man created him, I will not see any movies from Marvel

This, its like saying Frankenstein is not creater of Frankenstein's monster.

#27 Posted by frogjitsu (478 posts) - - Show Bio

Why? What's the point of not having Hank create Ultron?! I don't get it. The Avengers have tons of enemies they could use for this movie, one of whom was already teased. Why not introduce Hank, in Avengers 2, battle some other big bad in phase 3, and save Ultron for phase 4 or 5, so we can get invested in hank first? You could do Thanos, Masters of Evil, and Kang in Phases 2, 3, and 4. Heck after you do Masters of Evil, you could have a Thunderbolts movie. That'd be cool.

#28 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

Is is barely going to be an Avengers film, its going to be the Iron man show featuring his pet robot and brother/sister team that aren't called Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, nor are they Mutants or the children of Magneto.

#29 Edited by harrymcback (13 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad they've taken Ultron away from Hank Pym in the MCU. Hopefully they will introduce Hank as a great scientific mind and the one able to outwit Ultron and save the day. Maybe he'll even be introduced before the Avengers 2 in the Agents of SHIELD series. This will then setup the Ant Man movie which could have more of an Irredeemable Ant Man tone which is more suited to Edgar Wright (and possibly Simon Pegg as Eric O'Grady).

#30 Posted by Vulshock (126 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll wait to see what the changes are. But having another person instead of Hank Pym creating Ultron is a positive thing.

#31 Posted by biggkeem89 (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron is an A.I., technically Hank Pym was a biochemist in the comics, so if you think about it, it didn't make sense for Hank to create such an intelligent, learning A.I. anyway(that's a little bit of a problem with the comics for me), so why wouldn't it be logical for someone the public has already creating advanced robotics and A.I. like Stark creating Ultron, instead of someone the general movie-going public has little knowledge of like Pym? I believe this may actually be a great thing and will further set the movieverse apart from the comics in a good way, especially if its the J.A.R.V.I.S. hypothesis. As much of a Pym fan I am, the people griping about the change can get their underwear out of a twist and get over it. Think logically without letting your fanboy instincts kick in

#32 Posted by Emperormeister734 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

it all depends on what exactly they will change and how big it will be.

#33 Edited by Havenless (1323 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow said:

Yes, it is a big change. I will not see the movie if Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. And if Iron man created him, I will not see any movies from Marvel

Wow.

#34 Edited by RisingBean (3604 posts) - - Show Bio

In a perfect world, they would have Pym. But lets face it we don't need more people taking up face time at the expense of our core. We also don't need this to be Iron Man centric. While he can be the reason Ultron exists it is going to bug me if this becomes Stark and his subpar friends. Avengers began to lean toward this and that is it's only flaw.

#35 Posted by joshmightbe (24697 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not exactly happy about it but I'll reserve judgement until I learn more. At this point its too early to tell, between now and when the movie comes out there could be multiple changes and just because they don't have or mention Pym in the movie doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't involved somehow. Maybe Shield had a team of scientists working on the project that was headed by Pym and they just don't bring it up until the Ant-Man movie because there are many occasions in movies where there's some kind of super weapon or machine that they never mention who made it and if Shield is responsible for Ultron I doubt they'd publicize the fact. That would also give Hank some added motivation to become a hero in the Ant-Man movie, maybe he'll feel incredible guilt over his part in the project and decide to use his inventions to help people from then on.

#36 Posted by War Killer (19998 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not that worried about it. I still believe they'll try to involve Pym in the creation of Ultron, even if it not physical in the movie they'll at least reference to him. But even if they don't, I still believe that the movie will be just as a good as the first one and are looking forward to it.

Online
#37 Posted by Reignmaker (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, it is a big change. I will not see the movie if Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. And if Iron man created him, I will not see any movies from Marvel

You'll change your mind.

#38 Edited by calibretto23 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Has he specifically said that they were excluding Hank Pym. Everything I've read has quoted him as saying something along the lines of, "You don't need Hank Pym to have Ultron." In all honesty this sounds more like Whedon blowing smoke and getting everyone riled up. You could have an a snippet saying the name of the scientist who was working on this problem was Hank. He doesn't have to be central to the story. Either way I trust in Whedon.

#39 Posted by AmazingWebHead (1669 posts) - - Show Bio

If Pym didn't create him, he's not really Ultron!

Remember all those other times Pym didn't create Ultron?

Which one sucked more?

Online
#40 Posted by Black_Arrow (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow said:

Yes, it is a big change. I will not see the movie if Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. And if Iron man created him, I will not see any movies from Marvel

You'll change your mind.

Maybe I will only see ant man and Black Panther but I will not watch any of the other films.

#41 Posted by FlashKnight (448 posts) - - Show Bio

I have faith in Whedon, I just hope they don't screw this up as bad as they did the Mandarin. Ulton is my 2nd favorite Marvel villain to Thanos, so get it right Joss!

#42 Edited by russellmania77 (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm disappointed that its not gonna be with thanos. That is the biggest let down for me, and I'm sure ultron isn't gonna be near the same he was in comics or animated stuff and I'm also sure tony is gonna make a billion more jokes in this movie

#43 Posted by lilben42 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

THIS SUCKS! Joss Whedon is a FU**** TARD! HOW DID HE COME UP WITH THIS IDEA, "HOW ABOUT WE RUIN THE MOST INTERESTING THING ABOUT ANT MAN! JOSS WHEDON= FAIL! I HOPE HE FALLS IN A DITCH AND BREAKS HIS LEGS!

Hahaha just joking. I don't really care.

#44 Edited by DEGRAAF (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

While i dont think it is a big deal and it certainly wont destroy the film it does demean Hank Pym's character. While Ultron is a villain he is still one of the greatest creations in the MU so to take that from Hank is wrong. Hank Pym should be at the center of Avengers 2 if it is going to be about Ultron. By having Ultron as the villain that brings in characters like Hank Pym, The Wasp, Jocasta, and the Vision. They should have an Antman movie before Avengers 2 and have Ultron as a project in the background of a scene (maybe starting with a destroyed Iron Man drone)

So to summarize...

Will this change destroy the movie? NO

Does it ruin Hank Pym's character? SORT OF

Should they put Hank Pym in the movie? ABSOLUTLEY

#45 Edited by pspin (891 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes it does matter. Ultron is such a large part of Hank Pym's character that making Tony Stark create him instead really destroys a lot of Hank. Regret is Hanks defining characteristic mostly over Ultron and hitting his wife, and if you take away half of that and you take away a lot of Hank, it is a little ridiculous.

What makes it even worse is that they are coming out with an Ant-Man movie right after it...

#46 Edited by MaccyD (3587 posts) - - Show Bio

@biggkeem89: I feel the same way whenever Stark solves a problem that is either cosmic, biology or quantum physic in origin.

I don't mind about Ultron, I just want more Hank Pymage. :P

I say Joss was probably trolling with the "brother and sister act" quote knowing everyone would take it literally. He could just mean the Wasp and Ant-man.

#47 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1523 posts) - - Show Bio

i can't stand the amount source material is messed with in these movies. these are movies about comic book characters comic fans have spent time getting to know. do you really think people going to see these movies who dont know anything about comics would care either way? and ultron with no pym is dumb-sauce. hey lets havequiksilver n scarlet witch in the movie but leave out the guy important to the actual story...ugh

#48 Posted by nappystr8 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't realize that it had been confirmed that Hank Pym will not be a part of this movie. But to have Ultron created by anybody else really changes not only the characters of Ultron and Hank Pym in a huge way, but also so many other tangential Avengers characters like Vision as well. Obviously changes have to be made to make a a comic work as a movie, but completely axing a fundamental character of the Avengers is not an acceptable change at all.

I thought it was really disrespectful to the source material already that there wasn't even an offhand mention of the founding members Ant Man and Wasp in the first film, but it was what it was. If they want to ignore the Hank Pym and all the stories that come with him, that's fine. But making the most significant achievement/failure of Pym the focal point for your movie and then giving that story somebody else? That's another issue and there is absolutely no reason for that. This is the same kind of fan betrayal that happened with Iron Man 3. You think the Mandarin is a silly racist caricature; fine, don't use him in the movie. But why parade him around as a drug addled English fraud to make the point that you think the character is silly and racist? I am very worried about this trend by Marvel Studios.

The Avengers was a really good movie, and I have no doubt that Avengers: Age of Ultron will be a really good movie. But they aren't the movies that I wanted as an Avengers fan.

#49 Posted by Barkley (271 posts) - - Show Bio

@havenless:

really? thats all it takes for you bail on marvel movies? you aren't much of a fan I guess you didn't watch the original spider-man because peter didn't make web shooters...or any of the iron man movies...beause it was years before iron man came out to the public (iron man was his bodyguard) or the fact that Fury is white in the comics and not in the movie or that thor's hammer in the movie was made in a star and in the comics well it wasn't...I guess have banned those movies too?...not much of a fan are you....or are too serious of one....go ahead start calling me names if cant respond like a grown up

#50 Edited by BR_Havoc (1277 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad they've taken Ultron away from Hank Pym in the MCU. Hopefully they will introduce Hank as a great scientific mind and the one able to outwit Ultron and save the day. Maybe he'll even be introduced before the Avengers 2 in the Agents of SHIELD series. This will then setup the Ant Man movie which could have more of an Irredeemable Ant Man tone which is more suited to Edgar Wright (and possibly Simon Pegg as Eric O'Grady).

In all honesty I could see them going with Scott Lang as Antman if they choice not to add Wasp. I think he could bring something unique to a superhero movie being a single father.