#1 Posted by The_jackolantern (445 posts) - - Show Bio

@malevolent1 cause you asked for it! Does Superman really have to win every time to make him relevant?

#2 Posted by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL!!

Had to laugh as soon as I saw it.

Obviously, I don't think he does. And that was the approach John Byrne took when he took over the reigns for Superman for DC in...'85, '86 (???). He immediately brought Superman down from his godlike, "Silver Age" status and made him someone that could actually be defeated. And honestly, I don't know that you have to necessarily "weaken" a character to make him more relevant; just make sure his villains are ones that really make the fan go, "Oh crap, it's -- fill in the blank --! How is Superman going to beat this guy?"...which was the premis behind the creation of Doomsday (my favorite DC villain).

Granted, Superman was a little ridiculous in terms of power back then:

I mean, seriously?

On the other hand, people who read characters like Superman, Thor and the Silver Surfer love really powerful characters. So, yes there is a balance, definitely (as the scan above indicates) in terms of how powerful a supehero gets before he is no longer relevant (or the villains he fights become absolutely irrelevant...) and simply providing writers for stories with the imagination to create villains that are just as astronomically powerful.

Having said all that, I have heard tale...I cannot validate...that DC has said, they will NEVER feature a crossover with Superman losing.

Really? I mean, even if his opponent is demonstrably more powerful than him? After all, Superman is NOT even DC's most powerful superhero. Guys like Dr Fate, Martian Manhunter and Alan Scott come to mind. Ironically, Thor should have lost that fight to Superman in the JLA/Avengers crossover. Superman is faster, and Thor wouldn't even be able to react before Superman had him knocked out. On the other hand, that has never stopped Marvel, for example, from milking the Hulk/Thor fight for decades now. Even though Thor has demonstrated a plethora of powers beyond just brute strength, he has only used a lightning strike against Hulk once. The same principle could have been applied in that crossover...milking a fight between each comic company's respective heavy weight...presumably, until the end of time. But instead, Busiek may well have destroyed the possibility that Marvel and DC will ever collaborate again.

I digress.

The answer? Nope. I don't think Superman has to win every time to be relevant in comics. It might be a good business move on DC's part to feature a crossover where Superman actually loses one.

Perish the thought!

#3 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20387 posts) - - Show Bio

He doesn't always win. There are numerous opponents who have beaten him.

  • Doomsday
  • Darkseid
  • Amazo
  • Hunter Zolomon
  • Captain Marvel
  • Monarch

Just to name a few.

#4 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman would beat him

*straps in, puts on helmet, braces for impact*

#5 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman does not always win

#6 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6508 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise:

After extensive planning, absolutely. I also think Ghost Rider would throttle him.

#7 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

@KnightRise:

After extensive planning, absolutely. I also think Ghost Rider would throttle him.

Mmmm, yummy. Taste good.

#8 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6508 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise:

?

#9 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34025 posts) - - Show Bio

same could be said for every super hero in existence

#10 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

same could be said for every super hero in existence

When was the last time a hero actually lost? Not just "I can't beat X on my own so I need Y's help", like legitimately was beaten in the end?

#11 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34025 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

same could be said for every super hero in existence

When was the last time a hero actually lost? Not just "I can't beat X on my own so I need Y's help", like legitimately was beaten in the end?

That's my point, no hero actually loses, it's not just Supes

#12 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@KnightRise said:

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

same could be said for every super hero in existence

When was the last time a hero actually lost? Not just "I can't beat X on my own so I need Y's help", like legitimately was beaten in the end?

That's my point, no hero actually loses, it's not just Supes

IK I'm supporting you

#13 Posted by Mediumguy (166 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

Batman would beat him

*straps in, puts on helmet, braces for impact*

Close your eyes, it'll be over soon.

#14 Posted by Dernman (15266 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman lost in the last Superman annual. Pretty badly IIRC.