#1 Posted by time (4916 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by Sammo21 (687 posts) - - Show Bio

lol, no...if anything its the exact same. Though I will say Catwoman #1and Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 really aggravated me last year.

#3 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

DC is more willing to give their female characters lead roles in solo's, but other than Wonder Woman most are treated and act like sex objects now in the New 52. Marvel has been giving female characters more of a role recently and all are clothed. Hard to say at the moment prior to the New 52 I would say DC no question, but Marvel is stepping up their game and ladies like Powergirl, Catwoman, and Harley Quinn have been ruined by the current direction of DC.

#4 Posted by Razero (336 posts) - - Show Bio

One look at Harley Quinn's new costume should tell you.

#5 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

DC treats their female character better than Marvel.

Wonder Woman has been in continuous publication since the 40's and Supergirl in the 50's.Supergirl's character has develop throughout the decades which makes her stand out on her own.

Both of these characters didn't have male characters to defined their origins. X-23 is a clone of Wolverine and She-Hulk got turned into a monster because of her cousin.I'm aware there are female characters in Marvel who don't have male characters define their origin but can any of those female characters hold a title?Yea.. probably not.

Marvel doesn't have a female character that has been in continuous publication for decades.DC treats their character with more respect

#6 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

@time @moywar700: jean grey is an example how marvel treats female super heroes

she never got her own comic series she was put in with another super hero(cyclops) in the adventure of phoenix and cyclops

she is now one with the universe but marvel hardly ever mentions it.....shes back in all-new x-men but for how long, HOW LONG

#7 Posted by Jean199999 (544 posts) - - Show Bio

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

@time @moywar700: jean grey is an example how marvel treats female super heroes

she never got her own comic series she was put in with another super hero(cyclops) in the adventure of phoenix and cyclops

she is now one with the universe but marvel hardly ever mentions it.....shes back in all-new x-men but for how long, HOW LONG

#8 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jean199999 said:

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

@time @moywar700: jean grey is an example how marvel treats female super heroes

she never got her own comic series she was put in with another super hero(cyclops) in the adventure of phoenix and cyclops

she is now one with the universe but marvel hardly ever mentions it.....shes back in all-new x-men but for how long, HOW LONG

This.
#9 Posted by SC (12731 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends but my criteria no. Both prioritize money more and as businesses they should, but then naturally such things as gender depiction plays a role as far as how money is made, so there will be some cross over but its probably more likely that both "DC" and "Marvel" are both more inclined to ask themselves - how can we treat this specific group of characters to get more sales, and get more money. How can we treat female characters to maximize profit? How can we treat diversity within in our comics to maximize sales. How can we introduce new characters to get more money. How can we use our iconic characters to grow our business. All more likely than DC or Marvel asking themselves how can we treat our female characters with more respect. Selling a perception that they care also is a huge factor, but how often does the projection DC or Marvel make mirror the reality of the situation? Both companies have had high up important editors make comments detailing their ideas of gender and comics in the last ten years that were so ignorant and regressive there was considerable backlash. Both companies try to advertise that they do better than the other company, well here at DC we have more female characters with solos, here at Marvel, we hire a lot more females, yet neither necessarily translate to actually having female characters receive respect. To determine such a thing we would have to really consider a lot of different angles and values regarding character treatment. It also gets a lot easier the more specific you get - instead of comparing companies, compare writers, on this level you can sincerely get more accurate and consistent results. Its also easier to spot where the truth matches the claim.

Moderator
#10 Posted by Squalleon (4226 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,not sure but DC at least gives them some attention

Birds of Prey,Wonder Woman,World's Finest,Batgirl,Batwoman etc

plus@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

jean grey is an example how marvel treats female super heroes

she never got her own comic series she was put in with another super hero(cyclops) in the adventure of phoenix and cyclops

she is now one with the universe but marvel hardly ever mentions it.....shes back in all-new x-men but for how long, HOW LONG

#11 Edited by Dernman (14790 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops and Phoenix were a major couple at the time. It made more sense for them to share a comic then to go at it alone. Especially when honestly they wouldn't do well solo. Just one reason being how they like many X-Men are too heavily invested in the teams. They have no life other then that.

#12 Posted by rico_3088 (485 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon said:

Well,not sure but DC at least gives them some attention

Birds of Prey,Wonder Woman,World's Finest,Batgirl,Batwoman etc

I agree with this

#13 Posted by Twentyfive (2843 posts) - - Show Bio

About the same.

#14 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4654 posts) - - Show Bio
@moywar700:  Right Superman's Clone... I mean...COUSIN... didn't have a male character to define her Origin. (+)
#15 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yung ANcient One said:

@moywar700: Right Superman's Clone... I mean...COUSIN... didn't have a male character to define her Origin. (+)

She didn't, you can tell Supergirl's story without ever having Superman.

#16 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope

#17 Edited by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

Nope

How come you disagree?

#18 Posted by Kratesis (4266 posts) - - Show Bio

Before DC n52 I felt DC was far and above Marvel in terms of female characters.

Few of the female characters at Marvel ever hold their own title. Without a title its hard to follow a character you like in the long term.

Moreover it seems as if the female characters at Marvel are less significant, less effective, and less 'cool' than DC's women.

Its not like Marvel was committing some great and unforgivable sin, just they they were marketing all their comics toward boys. So their female characters usually seemed to exist for the interest of the male characters, to revolve around the activities of the male characters, or provide attractive images for male readers.

DC did it too of course, but prior to n52 it seemed to me that their female characters were more important, because they had their own stories, their own teams, their own places in the world rather than being side characters to male characters and male interests.

Now.. I don't know. I hope DC changes their current course, because Marvel hasn't improved, DC just got worse.

#19 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

DC is responsible for women in refrigerators, so I would have to say no.

#20 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

No they don't.

#21 Posted by SmashBrawler (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde said:

DC is responsible for women in refrigerators, so I would have to say no.

The concept existed way before that, tough.

All that happened is that a woman died in a gruesome way in a Green Lantern comic book, Gail Simone noticed, coined the famous term and then made a list of comic book women whose deaths or injuries had been used as plot devices.

So really, the only thing DC is responsible here is filling one third of that list and giving Simone an idea for a name for this kind of stuff.

#22 Posted by TDK_1997 (14486 posts) - - Show Bio

They treat them with more respect because they give them more chances to shine.

#23 Posted by Highlander_615 (212 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#24 Posted by Spawn92 (284 posts) - - Show Bio

They are both pretty bad.

I will give DC credit for keeping Wonder Woman a strong iconic female lead for decades now, and for (a lot longer than Marvel) giving their heroines more solo adventures and growth. However, with the New 52, as most have said, they are turning their female characters into sex symbols. Don't believe me? just read Catwoman #1.

Marvel should also get credit for at least trying to make their female characters stronger with NOW. Characters like Psylocke, Storm, Valkyrie, She Hulk, and Captain Marvel have been stealing the spotlight from the heavyweights like Iron Man and Cap for a while now.

But when you compare these two to an indy label like Top Cow comics who have been able to keep Witchblade a strong, tough as nails, no BS heroine for almost 200 issues now, you can't help but feel that Marvel and DC COULD be doing the same thing.

#25 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler said:

@Moonchilde said:

DC is responsible for women in refrigerators, so I would have to say no.

The concept existed way before that, tough.

All that happened is that a woman died in a gruesome way in a Green Lantern comic book, Gail Simone noticed, coined the famous term and then made a list of comic book women whose deaths or injuries had been used as plot devices.

So really, the only thing DC is responsible here is filling one third of that list and giving Simone an idea for a name for this kind of stuff.

http://lby3.com/wir/women.html

Where are you getting 1/3 from? I count 112 people on that list (counted Crimson Fox twice, since both sisters were killed, but only counted "all of Savage Dragon's girlfriends" as 1, because I have no idea how many girlfriends he's had). 57 of them are DC characters, or roughly 51%. There's 48 Marvel, 5 Independent (including Dragon's girlfriends). There were two characters listed that I had never heard of (Firebelle & Serpentine) and therefor don't know what company they are from. The site also doesn't even list Alex DeWitt (the actual woman in the refrigerator).

#26 Posted by SmashBrawler (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde said:

@SmashBrawler said:

@Moonchilde said:

DC is responsible for women in refrigerators, so I would have to say no.

The concept existed way before that, tough.

All that happened is that a woman died in a gruesome way in a Green Lantern comic book, Gail Simone noticed, coined the famous term and then made a list of comic book women whose deaths or injuries had been used as plot devices.

So really, the only thing DC is responsible here is filling one third of that list and giving Simone an idea for a name for this kind of stuff.

http://lby3.com/wir/women.html

Where are you getting 1/3 from? I count 112 people on that list (counted Crimson Fox twice, since both sisters were killed, but only counted "all of Savage Dragon's girlfriends" as 1, because I have no idea how many girlfriends he's had). 57 of them are DC characters, or roughly 51%. There's 48 Marvel, 5 Independent (including Dragon's girlfriends). There were two characters listed that I had never heard of (Firebelle & Serpentine) and therefor don't know what company they are from. The site also doesn't even list Alex DeWitt (the actual woman in the refrigerator).

I didn't read the site, I was only making an assumption based on the fact that there may be women from independent comic books. The site hasn't been updated in at least a decade, BTW.

#27 Posted by Target_X (379 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think so, not really. They generally have more titles revolving around women as the main character, but that doesn't equate to treating them better.

#28 Edited by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler said:

@Moonchilde said:

@SmashBrawler said:

@Moonchilde said:

DC is responsible for women in refrigerators, so I would have to say no.

The concept existed way before that, tough.

All that happened is that a woman died in a gruesome way in a Green Lantern comic book, Gail Simone noticed, coined the famous term and then made a list of comic book women whose deaths or injuries had been used as plot devices.

So really, the only thing DC is responsible here is filling one third of that list and giving Simone an idea for a name for this kind of stuff.

http://lby3.com/wir/women.html

Where are you getting 1/3 from? I count 112 people on that list (counted Crimson Fox twice, since both sisters were killed, but only counted "all of Savage Dragon's girlfriends" as 1, because I have no idea how many girlfriends he's had). 57 of them are DC characters, or roughly 51%. There's 48 Marvel, 5 Independent (including Dragon's girlfriends). There were two characters listed that I had never heard of (Firebelle & Serpentine) and therefor don't know what company they are from. The site also doesn't even list Alex DeWitt (the actual woman in the refrigerator).

I didn't read the site, I was only making an assumption based on the fact that there may be women from independent comic books. The site hasn't been updated in at least a decade, BTW.

I'm aware of that, but the point is is that DC decidedly does not treat woman better then Marvel. Both companies are really pretty far behind when it comes to gender relations. The only group (the above site) that I know of that's actually attempted to document the poor treatment of woman showed that DC is slightly worse then Marvel when it comes to treatment of women.

I'm sure a really industrious and determined person can spend a few years trying to get a conclusive answer. But ultimately it doesn't really matter. I think everyone can agree that both have a problem they need to fix.

#29 Posted by SmashBrawler (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde said:

@SmashBrawler said:

@Moonchilde said:

http://lby3.com/wir/women.html

Where are you getting 1/3 from? I count 112 people on that list (counted Crimson Fox twice, since both sisters were killed, but only counted "all of Savage Dragon's girlfriends" as 1, because I have no idea how many girlfriends he's had). 57 of them are DC characters, or roughly 51%. There's 48 Marvel, 5 Independent (including Dragon's girlfriends). There were two characters listed that I had never heard of (Firebelle & Serpentine) and therefor don't know what company they are from. The site also doesn't even list Alex DeWitt (the actual woman in the refrigerator).

I didn't read the site, I was only making an assumption based on the fact that there may be women from independent comic books. The site hasn't been updated in at least a decade, BTW.

I'm aware of that, but the point is is that DC decidedly does not treat woman better then Marvel. Both companies are really pretty far behind when it comes to gender relations. The only group (the above site) that I know of that's actually attempted to document the poor treatment of woman showed that DC is slightly worse then Marvel when it comes to treatment of women.

I'm sure a really industrious and determined person can spend a few years trying to get a conclusive answer. But ultimately it doesn't really matter. I think everyone can agree that both have a problem they need to fix.

Eh, I wasn't trying to defend DC or anything, I just thought it was kind of ludicrous that someone would believe DC invented the concept of "Women in Refrigerators" as late as the mid 90's.

#30 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly think the way they treat their characters has nothing to do with gender.  It's all about profits and risk.  These threads always make it seem like their is a concerted effort to keep female characters down. 

#31 Posted by The Stegman (23248 posts) - - Show Bio
I know I respect DC women  more than Marvel women.
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#32 Posted by Prodigy P (156 posts) - - Show Bio

@Matchstick said:

I honestly think the way they treat their characters has nothing to do with gender. It's all about profits and risk. These threads always make it seem like their is a concerted effort to keep female characters down.

I'd say it's more of a lack of effort to push female characters up, or in the very least, allow them to rise.

#33 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prodigy P said:

@Matchstick said:

I honestly think the way they treat their characters has nothing to do with gender. It's all about profits and risk. These threads always make it seem like their is a concerted effort to keep female characters down.

I'd say it's more of a lack of effort to push female characters up, or in the very least, allow them to rise.

Actually I'd say it's lack of solid sales figures. Male characters make the companies more money, and it is a business after all.  It's not like they don't get a fair shot, they just aren't as popular with the general comic community.    The X-men are a prime example.  Wolverine gets a 4 issue mini series, it does well, it's still running to this day.  Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee, Emma Frost, Dazzler, Shadow Cat & Rogue each get there own mini series, they don't do so well, they don't continue.   What are the companies suppose to do ignore characters that fan's respond to in favor of pushing characters that don't get a strong fan reaction?  Doesn't seem like good business sense to me.
#34 Posted by Dru_zod (212 posts) - - Show Bio

i say no

women re more than just sex symbols.......and victims of homicidal vengance.......and the weakness of every super heroe

#35 Posted by Prodigy P (156 posts) - - Show Bio

@Matchstick said:

@Prodigy P said:

@Matchstick said:

I honestly think the way they treat their characters has nothing to do with gender. It's all about profits and risk. These threads always make it seem like their is a concerted effort to keep female characters down.

I'd say it's more of a lack of effort to push female characters up, or in the very least, allow them to rise.

Actually I'd say it's lack of solid sales figures. Male characters make the companies more money, and it is a business after all. It's not like they don't get a fair shot, they just aren't as popular with the general comic community. The X-men are a prime example. Wolverine gets a 4 issue mini series, it does well, it's still running to this day. Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee, Emma Frost, Dazzler, Shadow Cat & Rogue each get there own mini series, they don't do so well, they don't continue. What are the companies suppose to do ignore characters that fan's respond to in favor of pushing characters that don't get a strong fan reaction? Doesn't seem like good business sense to me.

Capitalising on characters' popularity and promoting less-followed characters are not mutually exclusive. As you said, Wolverine appears in multiple titles, but that doesn't mean a company shouldn't push books with female leads. Currently Marvel is doing this (Red She-Hulk and Captain Marvel, for example), which I definitely applaud. I don't know about other publishers, since I'm primarily a Marvel person, but general sentiment seems to be that the general comics industry is not doing very well in this regard.

Furthermore, "disrespect of females" in fiction is not limited to under-representation, which is what your point mainly addresses. You also need to consider misrepresentation and sexualisation, which are two big things (especially the latter) readers like myself take issue with.

#36 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6221 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know, I guess yes. They do have more Female books.

#37 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4654 posts) - - Show Bio
@moywar700:  I really can't understand how you can say that
Plus say  " X-23 is a clone of Wolverine and She-Hulk got turned into a monster because of her cousin."  SUPERgirl is SUPERmans cousin. No Superman means no Supergirl. She's in the same boat as She-Hulk, and X-23.   To say otherwise will only work by using technicalities. She's from Krypton like Kal-El, wears his costumes colors, and is related to him. She's super close to being Clark's female clone. (+)
#38 Edited by Hoarderofhilarity (299 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope but Liefeld knows how to treat women

Totally how a human body works when it's waist is the thinnest part of the body.

#39 Edited by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yung ANcient One said:

@moywar700: I really can't understand how you can say that
Plus say " X-23 is a clone of Wolverine and She-Hulk got turned into a monster because of her cousin." SUPERgirl is SUPERmans cousin. No Superman means no Supergirl. She's in the same boat as She-Hulk, and X-23. To say otherwise will only work by using technicalities. She's from Krypton like Kal-El, wears his costumes colors, and is related to him. She's super close to being Clark's female clone. (+)

If Hulk wasn't there to make She-Hulk, She-Hulk would never came about.If Superman was never on Krypyon,then Supergirl would still come to earth and have her adventures.The clothing she wears isn't even Superman's clothing, it's family clothing.