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#1 Posted by kgb725 (6082 posts) - - Show Bio

If a character is white in the comics and changes that tfor a particular actor does that matter to you ?

#2 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1630 posts) - - Show Bio

This has been discussed plenty of times. I say it can work, if it fits the character, like Nick Fury, but not like Grover from The Lightning Thief (Seriously, what the hell was that about?)

#3 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (9592 posts) - - Show Bio

@limpoyzloan: agreed, they should also actually follow what happens in the book .-.

#4 Posted by Fenderxx (373 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say its fine, as long as its not core to the character, for example, black Panther can't be white. I know there is the whole possible casting of johnny storm for the new fantastic four, but i think people are more concerned about the dynamic between sue and johnny then, johnny's race ... changing a Dynamic like ... them being family shows the fans that they do not respect the source material ... thats just my thoughts tho

#5 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

@fenderxx: You know what would be great? Fantastic Four starring the cast of The Cosby show.

#6 Edited by HumanRocket (7593 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer my nick fury classic. To me I grew up with classics nick fury both cartoon (spider man) and in comics. Samuel L Jackson did an okay job but I dislike how he was under check with those shadow people on the tv monitor the classic fury wouldn't have taken that. Something about the classic fury feels more badass and that he would not take crap even from the president.

#7 Edited by joshmightbe (24716 posts) - - Show Bio

@fenderxx: There are many ways a black guy could have a white sister, one could be adopted, if one parent is white and the other was black its entirely possible for one kid to come out looking more black and one kid to come out looking more white, there are many documented cases of that. One could be a step sibling that took the same last name as the step father.

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#8 Edited by Kramotz (192 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Edited by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

my comment was deleted too (as well this discussion ought be)

#10 Posted by Kramotz (192 posts) - - Show Bio

@mynamewasdeleted: If it was utter ludicrous like the post I quoted above, then I see why lol.

#11 Edited by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@kramotz said:

@mynamewasdeleted: If it was utter ludicrous like the post I quoted above, then I see why lol.

no silly boy- if it was actually deleted it wouldn't look like a post at all.. it'd just say

this message deleted

or something like that.... i was riffin on my name and trollin with a dig about deleting this soon to be troll heavy thread. GET IT?

#12 Posted by mpierce2690 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

If a character's story is tied to a certain race, such as Black Panther to Wakanda, it should stick to that race. I wouldn't mind seeing different races play bigger roles in the comics or movies, just because I like my comics to reflect the real world.

The real world has different races, different sexual preferences, all that jazz.

I wouldn't mind seeing a black Flash, or a middle eastern Wonder Woman, or a gay Martian Manhunter. Comics should reflect the world. When most of the iconic characters were created, other races weren't as seen as equal to caucasian races, so they got left out. I've got no problem with changing those things as long as they stay true to the spirit of the characters.

#13 Posted by Kramotz (192 posts) - - Show Bio

@kramotz said:

@mynamewasdeleted: If it was utter ludicrous like the post I quoted above, then I see why lol.

no silly boy- if it was actually deleted it wouldn't look like a post at all.. it'd just say

this message deleted

or something like that.... i was riffin on my name and trollin with a dig about deleting this soon to be troll heavy thread. GET IT?

So you're trolling... with a "dig"?

#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mpierce2690: Well Wonder Woman should at least look Greek since her whole deal is Greek mythology

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#15 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. Changing a character at all is weak.

#16 Posted by mpierce2690 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Exactly. I wasn't picking places based on where she was from, but yes, I wouldn't mind seeing her with Greek origins. I've been saying for years that I'd like her to have an accent when she finally appears. One of the reasons I like Yvonne Strahovski, her Australian accent slightly tweaked would be awesome to give her a unique feel.

#17 Posted by Kramotz (192 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the idea of a black Johnny Storm. It's just an example of Marvel trying too hard to make us color-blind, but instead making matters worst.

#18 Posted by Dernman (14790 posts) - - Show Bio

@mpierce2690: Well Wonder Woman should at least look Greek since her whole deal is Greek mythology

Well yes and no. She was made of clay so she could have been anything. Obviously yes it would make more sense that they would form her to look like someone Greek. Now she is born so she would reflect her parents. Amazons though in general at least at DC are not necessarily Greek seeing as they came from around the world in one interpretation and were of different colors like Phillipus & Dessa.

Personally I prefer her and the rest of them to be Greek myself.

#19 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Its not like they made Black Panther white right?

I want black amadeus cho though, maybe by jaden

#20 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

yes. it matters. you want a different colour hero, how about you make your own and stop fu**ing with pre-established ones?

#21 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

So Human torch is Back now right?

#22 Posted by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

all HUGE RUMORS!

#23 Edited by The Stegman (23242 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's a main character. For instance, if they decided to make Alfred black, I wouldn't mind that much, but if Batman was suddenly a brotha, I might have something to say. UNLESS, it's someone other than Bruce Wayne that is.

#24 Edited by joshmightbe (24716 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: I could actually turn this argument into something bad but I won't since I know what you're actually trying to say

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#25 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally don't mind if they changed the race of characters from the comics in the movies as long as they stay true to the character's personality and origins. But, if we were to have characters like Black Panther, whose origin story is mainly in Wakanda, then it would be problematic to change a character's race if it would involve ignoring the source material to do so.

Personally, I would rather have it set up where the movies could create new characters that are of different races and actually promote them rather than change the race of an existing character to promote diversity in the movie universe.

#26 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10455 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh...well It just...unnecessary,why must the race be change ? what purpose does that serves ?

#27 Posted by PowerHerc (81712 posts) - - Show Bio

If changing a character's race is 'no big deal', then why do it at all?

It does matter because it is a part of who a character is and it's part of what makes a character relatable to his/her fans. A character's race should remain consistent in comics and movies and from comics to movies.

#28 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

#29 Posted by TheBigRedCheese (372 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a fan of race, gender swapping or sexual orientation changes. If the folks pulling the strings care so much about diversity than use the diverse characters already created. If they have to make tweaks to the characters to make them more appealing than so be it. A low-tier character like Blade became popular for while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Native_American_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_superheroes

#30 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5370 posts) - - Show Bio

Im black and even I dont like the Torchs race being changed.

#31 Edited by cameron83 (6753 posts) - - Show Bio

yes. it matters. you want a different colour hero, how about you make your own and stop fu**ing with pre-established ones?

Yes. Changing a character at all is weak.

@thebigredcheese said:

I'm not a fan of race, gender swapping or sexual orientation changes. If the folks pulling the strings care so much about diversity than use the diverse characters already created. If they have to make tweaks to the characters to make them more appealing than so be it. A low-tier character like Blade became popular for while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Native_American_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_superheroes

this

@guardiandevil83 said:

Im black and even I dont like the Torchs race being changed.

and this...But it's most likely just a rumor.

And it's not even about white characters being changed,just when characters in general are changed.It doesn't affect performance,and it most likely doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the plot/story,but don't unnecessarily change pre-existing characters.It freaking bothers me.At the very least,put in the already existing characters so they could get more popularity or just make your own damn character.Don't freaking change pre-existing one.It's better to leave the characters alone;stick to the original material and NOT FREAKING CHANGE THEM!

It's like me making Steve Rogers black or asian just because I feel that it needs more diversity.I mean,when they made that character in Thor black I didn't really care,same goes for Nick Fury (based on Ultimate version,who was based on Sam L Jackson),but it's freaking stupid and UNNECESSARY. Leave the characters alone (*cough* Electro..I mean,did anyone see how retarded he looks.He looks like a wacky crackhead and I'm not even talking about his blue atlantean form). It's just so unnecessary and stupid! Leave the characters alone and stick to the f****** source!

Eh...well It just...unnecessary,why must the race be change ? what purpose does that serves ?

#32 Posted by RustyRoy (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a fan of race, gender swapping or sexual orientation changes. If the folks pulling the strings care so much about diversity than use the diverse characters already created. If they have to make tweaks to the characters to make them more appealing than so be it. A low-tier character like Blade became popular for while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Native_American_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_superheroes

This. There are plenty of black characters that can be used in movies. Will anyone like if they make Superman Asian, James Bond Indian, Batman Black and Blade white? I hate it.

#33 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5528 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never understood why its considered a good thing to change the color of human torch but a bad thing to change the color of black panther.

#34 Posted by Fenderxx (373 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: there are ways they could do it, but judging it based on the last 2 FF movies i have a bad feeling they will go a simpler route and just not make them brother and sister so they don't have to deal with it. Comic fans are used to Movies misusing comic relationships so it comes from a very jaded mentality. I hope they do the movie fantastic, but i see where people are coming from.

#35 Edited by Dabee (2380 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never understood why its considered a good thing to change the color of human torch but a bad thing to change the color of black panther.

Then you're stupid, if you really, legitimately, don't get it at all. But I think you do get it. When most of these characters were conceived (1940s-1960s), racism was on full-blow in the United States. Naturally, less black characters would see the light of day in sales despite the inherent progressiveness of the new industry. That's why a good 90%, and that's a fairly low estimate, of characters were white. And mostly characters from that time are the only one's still getting movies made starring them. Now that Americans are tolerant (some of us, I like to think most of us), we are filling in that gap, trying to right things. After all, changing a characters' skin color is no different than changing their eye color, when it comes to most characters. Iron Man, Batman, Human Torch, their skin color is in no way PART of their character. Jeremy Renner did a great job on Hawkeye, despite with his brown hair and Hawkeye's respective blonde. Nobody cared, but for some reason, race still seems to be a double standard.

You may not feel you are being racist if you are against the change, but you inherently are. Making Daredevil have 20/20 vision in a movie would be a significant change to the character, making the Human Torch have some more skin pigment doesn't affect the character in the slightest.

Let's stop comparing it to making Black Panther played by a white guy. Shifting the race of one of the only black characters of the time would be just ridiculous, and you know that, norrinboltagonprime21. This whole thing is really a non-issue.

#36 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

@fenderxx: You know what would be great? Fantastic Four starring the cast of The Cosby show.

Vannessa could be the thing.

#37 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: Okay so I was trying to figure out if Theo should be Thing or Human Torch. But if Vanessa is Thing it works out. Cosby is Reed. Claire is Sue. Vanessa is Thing. Theo is Human Torch. Now would Rudy or Olivia be Valeria? And who would be Franklin?

#38 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5528 posts) - - Show Bio

@dabee: I understand the historical context of when most heroes were created, I don't understand why people can be ok with double standards. Its ok to change the color of one character like human torch but not the say falcon because thats bad. Both should be bad because as you said, most of us are tolerant now and it isn't necessary anymore. If we are tolerant than we should be fine with leaving characters as they are in the comics instead of changing them to be super diverse and please every color of the rainbow. If it is a problem then why are there no asians? What about mexicans? Middle easterners? Canadians? I could go on and on but I hope you get my point. Diversity doesn't matter anymore because people should be tolerant and this shouldn't be an issue. If it is an issue than there should be every race represented in the movie because having white and black characters only isn't diverse enough. I'm cuban and I'm not calling for any cuban characters or caribbean characters to be played in the movie, I'd prefer if people stop trying to be politically correct and stick to the comics. We care how a character looks because thats how we envision them,changing it is just weird.

Even hair color does matter as well. Having Thor be with any color hair than blonde would be weird and same goes for black widow having any other hair color than being a redhead. The way characters look does matter to a lot of people and majority of people aren't complaining about it.

Shifting the race isn't ridiculous because there shouldn't be double standards, people can't have it both ways.

#39 Posted by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

If Johnny is black, Sue has to be too.

#40 Edited by SliverBat (60 posts) - - Show Bio

It should matter to an extent depending on many things, like for the sake of staying true to the story. However if the character has no race to begin with or is not shown in human form often then it can get a pass.

I mean i'd be pretty disappointed if they make a movie with a white Static/Virgil... that would just make no sense.

#41 Edited by Havenless (1323 posts) - - Show Bio

Usually no, unless the character's background specfically requires that race. Black Panther ruling a country in central Africa while being Cambodian probably wouldn't be quite right. Black Captain America rallying the troops during a time where segregation was still abundant would have been a little screwy.

But Bane not being Latino or Ra's being Scottish weren't freaking me out. Mandarin's name obvious implies a Chinese descent, but they altered it into a guy who only worships Asian culture. Now if they had played it out with a young Guy Pearce coming out of an Asian woman's womb, okay... then they would have a problem.

Overall, I prefer great acting to a perfect comic adaptation. If the Human Torch ends up black, I have no problem with that. There's no reason a black actor couldn't portray Johnny's personality as he is in the comics. Maybe he's adopted, maybe Sue is black too. Not the end of the world to me.

#42 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5216 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by Pokeysteve (8123 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm something of a purist but it really depends on the character. What if Henry Cavil was Asian? What if Christian Bale was Indian?

At the same time though, I'm OK with a black Kingpin and a black Perry White. Not so much Johnny Storm......unless he's adopted in the next movie.

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#44 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: we have indian batman bollywood IIRC and asian superman in one of the old shows, but not all change is good or acceptable to old fans.

#45 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Do we really need another thread like this?

Obviously it matters to some people. Perfectly understandable

#46 Posted by Pokeysteve (8123 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@pokeysteve: we have indian batman bollywood IIRC and asian superman in one of the old shows, but not all change is good or acceptable to old fans.

Didn't those take place in their respective countries though.

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#47 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Which makes it better, I would prefer if they had another comic universe. Nothing changes, but when put up in big media Movie/Tv new fans and the 'casual' will beg for change. As with Fury Jr, that is damaging to continuity.

#48 Posted by Dabee (2380 posts) - - Show Bio

@dabee: I understand the historical context of when most heroes were created, I don't understand why people can be ok with double standards. Its ok to change the color of one character like human torch but not the say falcon because thats bad. Both should be bad because as you said, most of us are tolerant now and it isn't necessary anymore. If we are tolerant than we should be fine with leaving characters as they are in the comics instead of changing them to be super diverse and please every color of the rainbow. If it is a problem then why are there no asians? What about mexicans? Middle easterners? Canadians? I could go on and on but I hope you get my point. Diversity doesn't matter anymore because people should be tolerant and this shouldn't be an issue. If it is an issue than there should be every race represented in the movie because having white and black characters only isn't diverse enough. I'm cuban and I'm not calling for any cuban characters or caribbean characters to be played in the movie, I'd prefer if people stop trying to be politically correct and stick to the comics. We care how a character looks because thats how we envision them,changing it is just weird.

Even hair color does matter as well. Having Thor be with any color hair than blonde would be weird and same goes for black widow having any other hair color than being a redhead. The way characters look does matter to a lot of people and majority of people aren't complaining about it.

Shifting the race isn't ridiculous because there shouldn't be double standards, people can't have it both ways.

You are kind of agreeing with me while disagreeing with yourself. My mind is somewhat blown. Hold on a second...

Okay, I got a hold of myself. What you're saying is right. We are tolerant and that's why race in comic book movies shouldn't be oh-so concerned with diversity. It shouldn't be an issue, like YOU said. (Bolded.) People are tolerant, so whether or not Johnny Storm is white or black or Korugarian or ichthyotic IS a non issue. (Well, being Korugarian or ichthyotic actually WOULD affect the story.) But really, you said it best. Race should be a non-issue. That's why we shouldn't try to hard to be disingenuously diverse, but if it does inevitably end up being diverse (because there are a lot of great actors of all races), it should be a non issue whether or not the colors match up. (Like you said. Your words, not mine.)

Michael B. Jordan was great in Chronicle, and I see no reason as to why he wouldn't be great as the Human Torch. That's really all I have to say about the matter.

And lastly,

@dabee said:

Then you're stupid, if you really, legitimately, don't get it at all.

I knew you weren't stupid. ;-) You have proven you understand by saying "it shouldn't be an issue." Freudian slip perhaps? I THINKNOT!

He also thinks not. Don't argue with me, argue with him.

#49 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess it depends on the extend. If it's super obvious, I'd say it might be a problem, but if it's not too noticeable, I don't think it's too bad.

#50 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i think to some degree i think race matters, but i think whoever can bring the character to life can play any role. no i wouldn't mind seeing a black johnny storm or sue storm for that matter.