Do you think Batman needs an intelligence upgrade?

It seems a lot of people possibly the majority of the people here think that Batman's intelligence is overrated. That he's not as smart as a lot of his fans think, that he's not even in the top 10 in terms of intelligence in the DCU. Whenever his usefulness to the JL is brought up people will say he doesn't belong because not only does he not have any powers but that he's not even the smartest person on the team (people say Superman and Martian Manhunter are smarter)

So for those of you who think this do you think Batman should get an intelligence upgrade in order to be more "useful" to the JL and in general? If he was as smart as other comic book geniuses like Reed, DOOM, Lex and Stark there would be a lot less talk of his feats being PIS. I've heard arguments that he shouldn't be too smart because his rogues gallery would then be no match for him. I disagree Reed is MUCH smarter than a lot of his villains outside of Doom, Flash is much faster than pretty much all of his villains, Superman is a lot stronger than a lot of his villains as are Wonder Woman and Spider-Man. I wouldn't have a problem with it tbh, after all characters get upgrades all the time, whether it's power upgrades, tech upgrades, upgrade in fighting skills, etc.

No, he's exactly where he should be. His intelligence feats overshadow characters just as smart as him in JLA comics as it is so that he's not useless.

He's already in the top 5 or 10 smartest humans, I don't see why he needs an upgrade at all. I like my Batmen to be human.

No he doesnt need jt

I agree but I don't see how making him smarter would make him less human. Superman a alien with tons of powers is a very human character despite it. I see your point but I don't think making him smarter would inherently make him less human.

BTW I don't think he needs one either I just curious what people who say his intelligence is overrated think.

He's already as smart as any human. It's accepted that he can do anything anyone else on Earth can do with tech and prep. His detective work is pretty much deus ex machina. Meh, I just think he doesn't need to out shine the likes of Luthor, just match him at most.

Yeah I agree with that.

no.

This. But I wouldn't mind an upgrade, every character gets one but the opposite happened to Batman, PreN52 Batman was very intelligent compared to New 52 Batman.

Barry and Superman were physically nerfed, just off the top of my head.

Barry isn't nerfed, I don't read Superman so I don't know anything about that. Btw didn't he benchpress the weight of Earth for 5 days straight without breaking a sweat?

Almost 7 years.

And got beaten down by a Nuke. *shrug* He also read every medical book ever published within a few minutes.

Is Barry as fast as he was pre flash point?

New 52 or PreN52? And I'd say Barry's speed is pretty much the same, he's got some nice showings in New 52, here's New 52 Flash respect thread.

@rustyroy: Thanks. I was mostly refferring to the few issues Barry was in before the reboot, such as Rebirth.

I guess he's not noticeably nerfed, if at all.

Comic Batman, no. He's good. Movie Batman needs a serious intelligence upgrade though.

I'd like to see him, you know, do some actual detective work.

Batman is already insanely intelligent... more than what some people on these boards give him credit for... pretty much as @rustyroy and @koshi_waza88 already pointed out.

Probably holds more knowledge in that brain of his than just about anyone on DC Earth. And even though that knowledge might not go quite as deep as say, Lex Luthor's, when it comes to electrical/mechanical engineering, or Ray Palmer's when it comes to molecular physics, his breadth of knowledge in a variety of categories outclasses both of those two.

I have the opposite problem. I don't see why Batman has to be a super-genius and a master of everything to be "useful." He used to be a celebration of the human being, a reminder that courage and fortitude are the most important superpowers. What happened to good old-fashioned "regular human" heroics?

This is also something I agree with, Batman has become synonymous with auto win. To me he should be a man who can solve a problem with time, but through great effort, World's Greatest Detective is enough for me.

No, if there's one character in comics who doesn't need an upgrade in anything, it's Batman.

That's the dream haha.

No, people just need to stop underestimating him. Anyone who actually reads batman knows that he is up there with Lex Luthor and all them.

Wrong!...wrong!...wrong!...wrong!...wrong!...wrong!...wrong!...wrong!...

Batman is not in the JLA because of being very smart...or because he watches alot of TV so he knows everything...lol...Batman is on the JLA due to being the best tactician in the world!....the JLA is full of heavy hitters, they are like super-soldiers, so they are needed on the field, every team needs someone like Batman...and there's no-one better than him for the job...and big LOL to those comparing him to Lex Luthor...To lead a team, it's not enough to be the best in the world at Math or Physics...it's so much more than just that...in Justice League: "Tower of Babel"...Justice League: "Doom"...and "The Dark Knight Returns"...Batman proved that it takes one day, to do what Lex Luthor never managed to do, in his entire life...

In school: (maybe) Lex Luthor > Batman...leading a team: Batman >>>>>>>>>>>>>Lex Luthor.

@jayc1324: This

Him and Lex Luthor are already almost universally viewed as the smartest humans.

Eh,I wouldn't really say that. Hardly anyone really underestimates him.

I would say that Luthor is above Batman in intelligence and whatnot.

Batman's already one of the smartest guys in DC. He doesn't need to be the smartest one in the DCU...I mean,he already gets enough respect.

1. Hardly anyone really calls his intelligence feats PIS

2. And besides gods,I don't know of a lot of people in the DCU that are smarter than Batman.

The guy is fine. People really need to stop acting as if he's the most underrated character on the vine.

He is already one of the smartest people in DCU and up there with Lex as the smartest humans. Batman is fine the way he is.

@twix_right_side: I see people underestimate him all the time when it comes to reed Richards and lex luthor and people like them. They are better scientists and stuff like that but not by that much, and batman is just as good of an inventor. He's most definitely in their league.

@twix_right_side: I see people underestimate him all the time when it comes to reed Richards and lex luthor and people like them. They are better scientists and stuff like that but not by that much, and batman is just as good of an inventor. He's most definitely in their league.

I agree that he is fine where he is, but I do see people underestimate him a lot.

You were doing so well,until you mentioned those people. Reed Richards (ESPECIALLY) and Lex Luther far outclass Batman in terms of intelligence,and as scientists (especially Reed,who is THE comic book scientist). Reed's built things that can look into other universes,he built things that can depower Galactus (who is a force of nature), he makes his own cosmic cubes with ease,etc. Batman should never even be put in the same sentence as him. Not just as a builder/inventor,but as a scientist. They aren't even in the same tier. No doubt that Batman is one of the smartest guys in DC,but Reed is just too much with his cosmic intellect that even Doom admits is greater than his own.

Didn't Lex use his intellect and resources to become omnipotent once? I forgot the arc,but it had something to do with "ring" in the title. Anyway,even though I don't exactly read a lot of Lex (who has built iron man esque suits that can fight Larfleeze),I know that he's built things and has done feats that would possibly surpass that of Batman's. He's officially (and multiple times) regarded as the smartest man in DC. Personally,I think that he's above Batman.

I will say that Batman is a better strategist and tactical mind and detective than Reed/Lex,but that's about it.

@twix_right_side: Ahh, and let the underestimating commence. Batman is a great inventor too. Galactus is just energy, I'm sure batman could depower him too if he tried. Prep is kind of his thing. I know this isn't cosmic but batman beat gentleman ghost before who is an actual ghost, with prep.

.......are you serious? Are you actually serious?

Yes,Batman is a great inventor. No one is denying that. But Reed Richards severely outclasses him. I love how you say that I'm "underestimating" him,which is a poor way of dismissing my argument. It's like me saying "Thanos>>Batman" and you calling it underestimation. It's just the truth.

Galactus is a force of nature that keeps universal balance. I'm sure that Batman cannot. Please don't....and beating Gentleman Ghost is not as nearly as impressive as what Reed Richards has done.

) Reed Richards turned Galactus into a human with his tech, Galactus had his power sucked out of him and left to drift in space.

2) Reed Richards manipulated the date index of the Time Variance Authority within seconds. The Time Variance Authority operates on an Omniversal scale and can repair Timelines across the Omniverse.

3) Reed Richards' mind was so brilliant that the Alien Entity used it to recreate all of the Marvel actuality and its history. His mind alone brought balance to Marvel.

4) Reed Richards granted himself and the others of the Fantastic Four all of their powers. Reed was the one who manipulated the cosmic rays which empowered them.

5) Reed Richards found the Ultimate Nullifier within a single day during the Abraxas arc when he was given two days of prep.

Did I also mention that he also makes his own cosmic cubes?

He's built devices that can manipulate and turn Magneto's own power against him AS he uses it.

I'm not saying that Batman isn't smart,or a great inventor,or one of the smartest guys at DC,but he just doesn't compare with these guys.

@twix_right_side: I didn't dismiss your argument, I responded. And they are in different universes, Batman literally cannot replicate that stuff since it doesn't exist to him.

Batman beat a ghost, yes Galactus >>>>> a ghost but when has batman ever failed with prep. He could prep for Galactus given enough time.

I don't know an equivalent feat would be for the second point.

Or the third one, but that isn't inventing. I know reed is a little smarter overall, but batman is just as good at prep and inventing.

The flash also gave himself powers...

Fifth point also isn't inventing.

Batman helped to create brother eye, has kryptonian tech that can rewrite genetic codes, invented a contact lens that he can wear all the time and that can connect him to the batcomputer, run facial recognition algorithms, read lips from far away, has thermal vision, and more, he's built his own spaceship before, built something to protect his mind against TP, and he has built a teleporter before. Someone who can do all that isn't in Reed's league?

No no no no Maybe...

Batman Made contingency plans so he can beat EVERYONe in the justice league. Also he made a suit that can ran like the flash, fly and shoot heat vision like superman, make things like GL and even a lasso of truth like, well, the lasso like truth.

On the other hand... Batman even said himself that Tim Drake(Red Robin) and Barbara Gordon(Batgirl) was even smarter then him for their age.

So should he? It's whatever side you really believe in. But for me, I think the lasso of truth, a working one, is wayyyyyy beyond human intel.

Get a load of this guy! He thinks that Batman is in Reed's league.

He's not even in Pym's league.

...From everything I've seen from you BeaconofStrength,I can tell that we're going to inevitably be best friends.

Way to dismiss an argument.

Oh the delicious irony.

I didn't dismiss your argument, I responded.

Unless you're referring to BeaconofStrength

@twix_right_side: Flash also gave himself powers, that doesn't make you smart. You are still underestimating batman. I gave you some feats to match match things reed has done and you still say he's not in his league. Batman is in his league in inventing and prep and I showed it. But oh no reed made a cosmic cube. Batman doesn't have celestials. And he has prepped for Darkseid before more than once. Comparing reed to Darkseid just helps me more.

Batman should be happy that Reed is too busy to take his title of World's Greatest Detective.

@twix_right_side: I would also like to point out that I already said reed is a little more intelligent, there's no point giving feats to prove that when I agreed.

@greatcaesarsghost: as if that comes close to anything batman has done in detective work.

1. So now Flash is in the same league as Reed now? How did Flash give himself powers again? Because Reed gave himself and all of the FF powers,so....And it was intentional,so unless everyone on the planet learned to do that in Kindergarten.....

2. How did I underestimate Batman? If I recall correctly,I gave him credit more than once in my argument.NOTHING you said comes close to any ONE of those,yet you pretend as if they're equal or equivalent in nature. And no,you didn't show it. You keep saying that you have,but you haven't. The feats certainly don't show it either. Wow,he created a contact lens connecting him to his computer. That's nice,but that still doesn't come close to any of the feats that I posted. For some you take out of context (like that Kryptonian tech one).

3. Good for him. He doesn't have celestials,but he has cosmic beings in his universe. It doesn't matter,since he hasn't really done anything to compare,so....

4. How did he "prep for Darkseid"? Please don't tell me you're going to reference Superman/Batman Apocalpyse,or Final Crsis (because Batman didn't really defeat him with that "prep" in either case).

No.It doesn't. Empty statements mean nothing.

A "little more intelligent" is a vast underestimation. It's almost a slap in the face. It's like saying that Thanos is only "a little more intelligent" than Batman.

@twix_right_side: No flash isn't. That's the point. Giving someone powers doesn't make you smart. Tons if other characters have intentionally given themselves powers too.

That's only two feats I mentioned. The only really impressive one you said was building a cosmic cube, by those don't exist in DC...

What cosmic being do you expect batman to prep for? When has he ever needed to? If the situation came up, you know they'd write him as having a plan. He beat gentlemen ghost when he needed to, and DC has less cosmic beings.

He was smart enough to defeat Darkseid both times...

@twix_right_side: That's underestimating batman. Reed is only a little more intelligent, and is worse in detective work, prep, and strategizing.