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#51 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

ive been a daredevil fan since smiths run. it was dark and gritty for over 10 years and matt kept getting taken down more and more. i liked seeing matt actually having a good time for once and not constantly loosing. its a nice change of pace. as for indestruct hulk its gotta be one of the best comics marvel has put out in years

#52 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2145 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing I hate about current hulk is that planet hulk has been written out of continuity.

#53 Posted by Billy Batson (58171 posts) - - Show Bio
#54 Posted by TDK_1997 (14991 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk isn't reinvented and almost everybody approaves the take on Hulk the only problems Waid has is that most DD fans don't like his run because that is not the Daredevil they know.

#55 Posted by HillbillyMorangie (927 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno I grew up liking my dads favourites daredevil and the fantastic four, and the ones I had as a kid, old 70s and I guess 60s story lines were not as dark as the odd copies I read I. The 80s and 90s growing up, I'd say the current daredevil doesn't seem very different to the daredevil I grew up with, I honestly would need to catch up with daredevil to see the issues I guess... But i didn't read any comics except for the hulk during most of the 90s and all of the 2000s... I'd argue that anyone who has an issue with the change with daredevil read the late 60s and mid 70s runs... Like all things, give it a chance or wait for a new writer... :)

#56 Edited by nintendork666 (285 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, Waid and both of current books are awesome. I'd love for him to take on Moon Knight one day, with maybe Ryan Stegman as the artist.... hey I can dream, can't I?

#57 Posted by Lvenger (20782 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@battle_forum_junkie: Waid's Marvel work isn't as good as his DC work though overall.

Yeah, it's even better.

BB

Are you saying Waid's DC work is overall better or disagreeing with me and saying that you think that Waid's Marvel work is better than his DC work? I'm not following your drift here BB.

#58 Posted by Billy Batson (58171 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@billy_batson said:

@lvenger said:

@battle_forum_junkie: Waid's Marvel work isn't as good as his DC work though overall.

Yeah, it's even better.

BB

Are you saying Waid's DC work is overall better or disagreeing with me and saying that you think that Waid's Marvel work is better than his DC work? I'm not following your drift here BB.

It was the latter :P
BB

#59 Posted by Lvenger (20782 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson: The latter? I'm honestly surprised at that assessment BB. I mean considering the number of legendary series Waid worked on at DC compared to Marvel, I can't say his Marvel work is better overall than his DC work. For DC, there's his definitive Flash run which did loads of good for Wally West, Kingdom Come which was a brilliant deconstruction of the 90s anti hero fad along with contrasting it with the stoic classic heroes, Superman: Birthright which many consider to be the best Superman origin story and even influenced MOS to a degree, his great JLA run which came off the heels of the epic Morrison run, JLA Year One which was a good origin story and 52 which I hear is a really great series that didn't have any editorial interference along with Morrison and Rucka and more

Then there's his Marvel work. His Fantastic Four run is certainly the best of the bunch and Indestructible Hulk is shaping up to be really good. I hear he did a Captain America run which people liked but his Spider-Man work isn't well received, at least on here and I think we guys are good judges of quality. Then there's his Daredevil run which hasn't hit a bell with the DD fans wanting a pulp noir, darker, more serious DD back again when Waid instead has given us the Stan Lee swashbuckling version. It's good don't get me wrong but I don't think overall his Marvel work compares to his DC work IMO.

#60 Posted by Billy Batson (58171 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@billy_batson: The latter? I'm honestly surprised at that assessment BB. I mean considering the number of legendary series Waid worked on at DC compared to Marvel, I can't say his Marvel work is better overall than his DC work. For DC, there's his definitive Flash run which did loads of good for Wally West, Kingdom Come which was a brilliant deconstruction of the 90s anti hero fad along with contrasting it with the stoic classic heroes, Superman: Birthright which many consider to be the best Superman origin story and even influenced MOS to a degree, his great JLA run which came off the heels of the epic Morrison run, JLA Year One which was a good origin story and 52 which I hear is a really great series that didn't have any editorial interference along with Morrison and Rucka and more

Then there's his Marvel work. His Fantastic Four run is certainly the best of the bunch and Indestructible Hulk is shaping up to be really good. I hear he did a Captain America run which people liked but his Spider-Man work isn't well received, at least on here and I think we guys are good judges of quality. Then there's his Daredevil run which hasn't hit a bell with the DD fans wanting a pulp noir, darker, more serious DD back again when Waid instead has given us the Stan Lee swashbuckling version. It's good don't get me wrong but I don't think overall his Marvel work compares to his DC work IMO.

You could add his Impulse run as well but...

His first Flash run was good, though wavered in quality at times. I don't know if I could call it definite when the series was good before him and after him. I didn't care for Kingdom Come. Birthright is liked by many but there are plenty of other Superman origin stories as well that people like even more. The stories has good characterizations and moments but it has its problems. His JLA run is usually considered to be alright.

His second run on the Flash was dud as well as were his Legion of Super-Heroes and Brave and the Bold runs.

BB

#61 Edited by gor724 (838 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate how he changed the tone of Daredevil comics, it's obvious he just did it so Daredevil can fit in the MCU. Hulk is fine, thats just character development, but making Daredevil a happy boy scout isn't character development. I am a fan of his other writing though, Birthright, Irredeemable, those are great. But his Daredevil is bad.

#62 Edited by Spideysense44 (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark Waid is becoming my favorite writer so yes i like it

#63 Posted by Lvenger (20782 posts) - - Show Bio

You could add his Impulse run as well but...

His first Flash run was good, though wavered in quality at times. I don't know if I could call it definite when the series was good before him and after him. I didn't care for Kingdom Come. Birthright is liked by many but there are plenty of other Superman origin stories as well that people like even more. The stories has good characterizations and moments but it has its problems. His JLA run is usually considered to be alright.

His second run on the Flash was dud as well as were his Legion of Super-Heroes and Brave and the Bold runs.

BB

Who wrote Wally before Waid came on board? As for Kingdom Come, though I guess it's subjective, you can't deny the massive impact it had along with the critical accalim it received. And which Superman origins were better? Man of Steel didn't have nearly the passion or the sophistication of Birthright and Secret Origin was Johns making Silver Age additions canon again along with some obvious Superman The Movie references in story and art. I can see where you're coming from on Brave and The Bold though but I haven't read his Legion or Impulse runs. Lastly, you've done a good job outlining why you feel Waid's DC work isn't all that but you haven't said why you prefer his Marvel stuff BB :P

#64 Posted by daredevil21134 (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@gor724 said:

I hate how he changed the tone of Daredevil comics, it's obvious he just did it so Daredevil can fit in the MCU. Hulk is fine, thats just character development, but making Daredevil a happy boy scout isn't character development. I am a fan of his other writing though, Birthright, Irredeemable, those are great. But his Daredevil is bad.

I agree.But sadly others won't agree with us on Waid's Daredevil.I am a hardcore Daredevil fan and I have decided not to read Daredevil anymore until Mark Waid leaves.It truly breaks my heart lol

#65 Edited by Billy Batson (58171 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Who wrote Wally before Waid came on board? As for Kingdom Come, though I guess it's subjective, you can't deny the massive impact it had along with the critical accalim it received. And which Superman origins were better? Man of Steel didn't have nearly the passion or the sophistication of Birthright and Secret Origin was Johns making Silver Age additions canon again along with some obvious Superman The Movie references in story and art. I can see where you're coming from on Brave and The Bold though but I haven't read his Legion or Impulse runs. Lastly, you've done a good job outlining why you feel Waid's DC work isn't all that but you haven't said why you prefer his Marvel stuff BB :P

Baron had a short run at the beginning and Messner-Loebs wrote the series till Waid took over. Messner-Loebs did the most character work with Wally. He turned a shallow jerk into the nice guy we know today and he did great supporting cast work as well.

Kingdom Come is for some reason acclaimed but I don't know why. I thought it wasn't good. I could say it was good even if I didn't like it but I don't see it being good.

There are other origin stories besides those :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Superman

I heard his Impulse was great, though.

And Waid didn't really have a proper run on ASM. It was a rotating writers at the time but he still made it into CBR's top Spider-Man creators poll. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/05/21/50-greatest-spider-man-creators-master-list/

I just think he's done stronger work at Marvel than he's done at DC.

BB

#66 Posted by Lvenger (20782 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson: Fair enough. Even though I disagree at the end of the day, I'm not lying when I say you've actually presented a thoroughly reasonable case for your side. Some of Waid's stories made it into the Top 100 Spider-Man stories list on here if I recall since I was properly involved with the selection process on this particular list.