Did the prequels diminish the Jedi Order and the Force?

I think the prequels were a step back for the Jedi and the concept of the Force for the following reasons:

• The Jedi Order was too militant. To be a good Jedi was to be a killing machine, a tool of the Republic. Bull! The Obi Wan I knew was not some politician's cat paw! The ratio of Jedi Knights to normal Jedi was too damn high! There needed to be more non-combat Jedi like Jocasta Nu to sell the idea of the Jedi Order as a neutral, non-political group devoted to meditating on the Light Side of the Force. The Temple was attached to the Senate like a Starbucks to a Chapters. You might as well dress the Jedi in clone trooper armor.
• The Jedi were too powerful. Remember that seen in the original film where Obi-Wan used stealth on the Death Star to avoid being discovered and fighting a platoon of storm troopers? In the prequels, Jedi doctrine is kill, kill, kill. And it works! Heck, Jedi Knights are apparently qualified to lead groups of clones into battle in just about any terrain imaginable. Seems legit.
• This goes back to my previous points, but why did they make Yoda into a master duelist? His status as wise senior member of the council should be sufficient. There's more to being a Jedi than destroying one's enemies. Leave the fighting to the younger, more able Jedi.
• The force was emphasized too much as a tool for combat. Jedi shouldn't guide the force, but be guided by it. In fact, the philosophy of the Light Side is rarely discussed.
• Midichlorians ruined the mystique of the force. I don't need some uncooked "sci-fi" explanation. This was fine:

"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."―Obi-Wan Kenobi

If you don't like the prequels keep it to yourself.

Before the prequels, there was no Jedi Order. You can't diminish what didn't exist.

I think they were portrayed differently to the way that a lot of us imagined they would be. Then shoehorned into a particular role to fit the story.

My main problem was with the clone army itself- the Jedi order devoted to life and equality, finds itself controlling what is effectively a slave army in the movies.

That's what I like about the expanded universe though, for every thing you don't really like or for every thing you do, you stand a pretty good chance of finding a story that either fixes the situation, or at least explains it.

There were a lot of stories about how not all Jedi were comfortable with the militarization of the order, as well as those who didn't like the use of clones.

but the originals there was no order bro just a philosophy. Don't see why your really comparing them. When the new movies come out then you can compare the old order with the new i guess.

Why? This guy isn't trolling, he's giving valid points.

Not really....seems fine to me. Especially when, ya know the Jedi Order wasn't really around in the old trilogy anyway so nothing was really diminished.

I agree with most of the OP.

I was up to date with most of the extended universe before the prequel. I was so disappointed by the first one that something broke and I (almost) never read another SW book after that.

I'm sure I missed A LOT of good stuff, but life is too short and we all have to make choices.

Them being militant when they aren't supposed to is kind of the point. It emphasizes how they were manipulated by palpatine.

While I'm not as upset about midichlorians as others, giving the force a type of unit was silly IMO.

Maybe George Lucas watched or read DBZ and liked the concept he found in it of being able to measure and quantify the power of the characters?

:-)

The midichlorian count...it's...OVER 9000!!!

@darthmummy: I disagree and alot of your points have been already explained:

1) The Jedi Order during this time has always served and been a "tool" of the Republic and there are non-war Jedis they just werent needed for the context of the movie even though Ep1 showed Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon as diplomats that had to fight.

2) No they werent. Obi-Wan used stealth cause it's smart to avoid battles when he doesnt have to fight. Also he didnt want the Death Star on high alert as it would make it harder for the other cast to sneak around even though they set it off later. Jedi werent really qualified to lead the Clones at first and got alot of them killed, it's after the battle of Geonosis where they become qualified and, yes, it is legit.

3) Why cant Yoda be both? It's already established that Jedi learn to protect themselves and Yoda being extremely powerful in the force and the most wise. Yoda in the prequels only fought sith that were beyond the younger more "able" Jedi. Also you dont tell Yoda what to do, son!

4) It can be both. Stop being so narrow-minded on what "should" and "should-not" be. I mean there ARE two sides of the Force after all. The force being used more for combat is mainly because of the context of the movie that it's a WAR (Also they used the force to push and persuade; boo-hoo action scenes).

5) Boo-hoo! Sci-Fi in my Sci-Fi genre!? The damage is done. Get over it.

6) Stop beating a dead horse and look at all the other corpses through the Search Function

Sounds like every Battle on the Battle forums ever: Math and Science logic in Comics lel

Perhaps.

Here: this video describes my issue better than I did.

LOL at this thread.

:/ What's so funny...?

I agree with some of these points and disagree with some.

Here is a point that I disagree with, one of the things that I loved most about the original trilogy and especially Episode IV was how much it borrowed (in a good way) from tales and epics from ancient times to the medieval era. The idea was essentially that the Jedi Knights were the equivalent to knights of medieval Europe (and to a lesser extent the Samurai of feudal Japan) and knights served their lords, and when wars occurred, the knights would fight for their lords. So, the prequels didn't stray too far from those parallels. Could we have seen more non-combat Jedi sure, but I don't think that diminished the Order.

@darthmummy said:

That doesn't really diminish the Jedi Order in fact it enhances them. Sure the feats of the Jedi are exaggerated but that's kind of the norm of legends and also in modern action entertainment (movies, shows, comics, games etc).

I actually agree with this, it didn't ruin the movies for me but it was really jarring to see Yoda flip around with a lightsaber fighting Dooku and Palpatine, it's one thing if he used the force to control his lightsaber and that's how he fought, but yeah we could have done without that display in Episodes II & III.

Yep, the prequels should have viewed the force as more of a philosophical guide, rather than essentially superpowers. Not saying that the Force should not give those touched by it uncommon gifts, but more emphasis should have been on the spiritual side of the Force.

This I 100% agree with, Star Wars was influenced a lot by ancient/classical and medieval philosophies from around the world. Obviously the Force was at a philosophical and spiritual level. While it is a good thing in real life to explain the unexplained through science, in fiction sometimes it's for the best if something unexplained isn't uncovered through science. The idea of how much someone is touched by the Force is determined by a Midichlorian count takes the beauty out of the Force.

Shouldn't this be in off-topic?

@thecannon: Does the Star Wars universe have its own forum on CV because it could really use one.

As far as I can tell, no it doesn't. Really good idea though.