Deathstroke #5 Discussion (Spoilers)

Holding his own against Deathstroke is on its own, a very good showing for Batman, and even more so, if we take into account that Slade owned Bronze Tiger in this same run.

@jashro44 This might have something to do with Deathstroke being weaker and slower. The drug might have messed with the rest of his powers since it was strong enough to circumvent his healing factor. Whatever the reason. Im sure we will find out soon enough why he's slower and weaker.

@sodamyat: Nice find. Yea that is also possible. Regardless hopefully it gets revealed at the end of the arc.

Also a few pages later, Slade drinks a "truth serum" that he doesnt trust. But he does it anyway because he wants answers. He sees images and starts heading out. He walks a few miles and notices that he's talking about hope and how thats not him and then passes out. Im not sure if it was the truth serum that has him messed up or if it was the injection that circumvented his healing factor that has him all screwed up, but He is not right. And thats for sure. Only someone who hasnt read this arc would say otherwise.

This.

@sodamyat: @jashro44:

Lady Shiva is going to kill him, if he fights her like this.

Just like she killed Jason Todd :p

Lol, you can't do much against someone that punches through submarines and tanks huge explosions, on his own title.

And sneeks away unheard from Supergirl who in the new 52 has heard Leaguers from a galaxy away.

This is the cover for Deathstroke's next issue:

According to the solicit for that issue, it looks like his fight against Batman, injured Slade enough for his father to take advantage.

Lol yeah, i forgot about that one xD

And broking Supergirl's grip, Supergirl, who despite Jason being "on-venom", should still be strong enough to level a entire city with ease.

Meh. This arc hasn't been that great. This issue was easily the highlight. Hopefully things pick up soon. I can't help but feel this issue and the next issue were inspired by Wolfmans original fight.

To put all this nonsense from viners who havnt read the arc to rest:

Yeah, it kinda looks like the same concept, with Slade being badly injured afterwards, basically with Slade admiring Batman for his skills and will, while letting everyone know that he's still superior. (this battle had much more context than their last)

@sodamyat said:

@jashro44 said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

This is the cover for Deathstroke's next issue:

According to the solicit for that issue, it looks like his fight against Batman, injured Slade enough for his father to take advantage.

Meh. This arc hasn't been that great. This issue was easily the highlight. Hopefully things pick up soon. I can't help but feel this issue and the next issue were inspired by Wolfmans original fight.

To put all this nonsense from viners who havnt read the arc to rest:

Nice.

Plus he basically turned Slades father into Ras Al Ghul or something....There aren't a lot of original ideas here. The only good things in this series are Harley and this fight. The art is pretty good to. Hopefully it picks up....

@saren said:

@granitesoldier said:

@saren: Haven't seen her yet. How's she look?

Still looks like a juggalo chick, but I think Daniel draws her expressions better than the people who've been drawing her in Suicide Squad.

I think he writes her better too; I haven't liked any of Daniel's writing in this series so far, it's all too try-hard 90's edge most of the time, but he wrote a pretty nice Harley here.

Agreed on how she's drawn and written. I want this for her book.

I know what I am talking about. It's you who cannot process common sense.

Don't tell me I didn't read the arc while I am the only one analyzing Slade's situation and posting scans and you're just throwing senseless assumptions around. If you think I am missing something about the arc, then tell me what it is rather than being an annoyance.

Don't tell me to stop talking, you can get in trouble with the mods for this troll/internet tough guy behavior.

If you don't have anything constructive to add, then go mess around with another thread.

Edit: I saw the scan that you put suggesting how Slade could suffer from amnesia. It does imply he is altered, but, not in a physical sense. Whatever happened to his physicals (strength, speed, skill) isn't mentioned anywhere.

@jashro44 You are mainly speculating that something altered Slade's physicals. Slade did state he was weaker and slower, but the context is still unclear. In the issues before, Slade says something along the lines of his head messing up. Nothing about how his physical stats are effected Again, his cognitive functions being altered does not mean he will be slower or weaker. They are two separate things.

In the future, if a clear reason is brought up why Slade may be off in his physicals, then I can see the point. But as of now the only justified hindrance Slade has is the eye problem which is merely an annoyance and not serious enough to be a game changer and maybe his altered thinking process.

Even if Deathstroke says he is weaker and such, that isn't for fact until the issue is made clear.

For now we can only assume there was something messing with his brain and that he wasn't used to 2 eyes. But there is not enough evidence to justify his physical stats shrinking.

@digitalshooter9: have read the arc ?

Yes

@digitalshooter9: Jesus.. The salt is real!

@digitalshooter9:

@jashro44 You are mainly speculating that something altered Slade's physicals. Slade did state he was weaker and slower, but the context is still unclear. In the issues before, Slade says something along the lines of his head messing up. Nothing about how his physical stats are effected Again, his cognitive functions being altered does not mean he will be slower or weaker. They are two separate things.

In the future, if a clear reason is brought up why Slade may be off in his physicals, then I can see the point. But as of now the only justified hindrance Slade has is the eye problem which is merely an annoyance and not serious enough to be a game changer and maybe his altered thinking process.

Dude the writer said we would come back to why Slade was weakened. I'm not speculating anything, deathstroke confirmed this. The arc isn't finished yet.

Even if Deathstroke says he is weaker and such, that isn't for fact until the issue is made clear.

Unless it gets revealed otherwise we stick to the facts. Slade confirmed he is weakened.

For now we can only assume there was something messing with his brain and that he wasn't used to 2 eyes. But there is not enough evidence to justify his physical stats shrinking.

Deathstrokes mind has always been a huge part of who he is. So that is still a significant hinderance.

Tell me about it..

Honestly the writers just shouldn't give Batman such high end feats anymore. Some people just can't take it and move on. They have to dig for the smallest of excuses to invalidate Batman from getting any decent showings. Especially against characters that are more or less his equal.

First of all I'm not sure why Deathstrokes monologue is supposed to be taken seriously,for instance if Batman were monologuing he'd too could easily say something like "I can drop him in 2 moves" which isn't untrue,all he has to do is tear his mask and pressure point his forehead, why exactly is Deathstrokes own appraisal of his capabilities being taken so seriously? he doesn't even have that enhanced brain power thing in the New-52, he also monologues about being outfought,outsmarted etc, and for such a weak person he had no problem displaying superhuman strength,greater than what he showed under Justin Jordan's run.

These contradictions exist because the writer was trying hard not to make EITHER person look bad,but the point he hammered was simple,Batman=Deathstroke.

@entropy_aegis: Good points.

I win.

Actually i was referring to you being salty :)

This..

Exactly what I am trying to say...

@dewin50 said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@dewin50 said:

@digitalshooter9: Jesus.. The salt is real!

Tell me about it..

Honestly the writers just shouldn't give Batman such high end feats anymore. Some people just can't take it and move on. They have to dig for the smallest of excuses to invalidate Batman from getting any decent showings. Especially against characters that are more or less his equal.

Actually i was referring to you being salty :)

Meh.. Made it unclear..

And,

I think it has more to with the fact that half of his mask was tinted. I think seeing clearly and bright out of one eye, and dark out the other would be irritating.

The writer has been making a point deathstroke has been off his game all arc long. Yes he displayed super human strength but that doesn't mean he was at full strength. Even if it was better than previously displayed that would likely be the result of Tony S.Daniels ignoring the previous runs (no Nth metal, Deathstrokes father being alive and some master assassin, etc). That and PIS/WIS feats do happen, if you want you can call it a high showing for Slade or bad writing if you don't think its consistent.

Not sure if the part about Slade being able to end the fight in 3 moves was directed at me but I never mentioned that. The point is people are dismissing the fact that Slade wasn't at his best here and the fact that Harley hit Slade in the back of the head while Slade had batman pinned to the wall. People are instead focusing on things like batman not killing deathstroke because his morals; even though batman never kills and never would in an actual fight (so him passing up the opportunity against Slade shouldn't matter), and on Slades comments how batman was out fighting and outsmarting him but ignoring all his comments about how poorly he is fighting and how weakened he is, and likewise people are arguing Slade bringing up his son to distract batman is some how something that is a knock against him in the fight when really its just him using dirty tactics.

You can call it a stalemate but there was a lot of context in this fight which aided batman. Thats all anyone is saying here. I don't think anyone is saying Slade could stomp batman easily at his best except for dondave (there isn't enough evidence for that at the moment, maybe by the end of the arc but I doubt it) but there is proof that Slade wasn't at his best which is something that needs to be acknowledged.

@digitalshooter9

Alright then. You will have your point once the arc officially confirms Slade's physicals declining by presenting a reason to it. As of now there isn't a reason justifying Slade becoming weaker or slower.

I disagree but I've been over this.

The only thing justified is the eye hindrance caused by the mask.

And him thinking slower which is something there is actual evidence for...

What Slade says is not a fact. There needs to be a reason behind Slade becoming weaker and slower. You can't just take what he says as a fact just because he said it. If further in the arc the writer creates a reason for Slades weakening, then it is a fact. As of now it is an unbacked statement by Slade.

Slade might as well be deceiving himself. How do I know that? Because he already did once in that fight.

First he thought he was weakened by a side effect of what I-Ching did to him. Then he realized it was the mask. His thoughts are all over the place during the fight.

Slade was asking himself why he was fighting as an ametur and speculated at first that it might have been what i-ching did to him but than realized it was the mask. Thats not him lying to himself, thats Slade trying to figure out why he was fighting so sloppy.

This is the reason you don't take statements, especially internal monologues as facts. I can find instances of Daredevil saying he has fought Captain America to a standstill but a majority of the vines agree (excluding myself) that Matt never stalemated Captain America.

The majority of the vine is wrong.

Slade said that it should have taken him 3 hits max to defeat Batman but the funny part is even in his best performance against Batman it took him a lot of effort (and way more than 3 punches) to beat Bruce (Marv Wolffman run).

Pre new 52=//=new 52. There not even the same character really.

In their detective comics #711 fight he didn't knock Batman out with 3 punches. He floored him, but didn't ko him. Bruce got up in the next panel and attacked him again.

So apparently Slade's internal monologue suggests he is capable of 3 shotting Batman while his history against him clearly suggests he can't do such a thing.. That makes his internal monologues less credible doesn't it?

As I said above the new 52 and Pre new 52 continuities are not the same thing. I know batmans continuity isn't suppose to be changed but I don't think writers are acknowledging those fights in the new 52.

Sure he says he is weaker, he could be weaker. But it isn't a fact until a reason is presented by the writer to justify it. As of now he is only hindered by having 2 eyes instead of one.

Whatever.

Not against Batman.

Against Batman Slade's main advantage are his enhanced physicals. In terms of mindset and tactics Bruce is just as good if not better than Slade. So even if his thinking process is altered, it is still not very significant as it wasn't his main card against Batman either way. Slade relies on overpowering Bruce, not outsmarting him. Because thats something he can't do either way. Unless in the future it is made clear by the writer a reason for Slade to be physically weaker and slower, it is not a hindrance and has no context.

They only had one fight in the new 52, and Slade said thinking slower, even by a milisecond is enough to throw him off and give batman an edge. If you are talking about pre new 52 fights, than pre new 52 Slade thought as fast as he thinks, so if pre new 52 Slade was thinking slower he would be moving slower (but thats besides the point since new 52 deathstroke isn't the same as pre new 52).

Slade did mention his mind being off point a few times in the arc. But him being weaker and slower is just an unbacked statement (only mentioned once) thrown in the middle of a fight where Slade wasn't really making a lot of sense.

Fine whatever we'll wait until this arc is over. He was still hindered regardless. And Harley still hit Slade in the back of the head at a point in time where Slade had the edge.

I can go into detail about how Slade's internal monologue is contradicting itself if you want.

OK.

This fight was more of a feat for Slade. He wasn't at 100% and he was weakened and wasn't used to the adjustments that affected his body but he was still putting up a fight. Yes, Batman could have gone for the kill there but he wouldn't have killed him in the first place so it's kinda useless debating that and using it as a feat for Bats. Slade was able to pin Bats until Harley interfered despite him being physically outmatched at said fight.

Batman did pretty well though.

Also, Harley Quinn was pretty great in this issue.

There are 3 people here arguing s*u*d points that have been covered in the book. Just read the damn arc instead of talking outta your re*r ends.

I wouldn't say stomp him but he could defeat Batman though.

Here. In the very first issue after Deathstroke nearly dies. I-ching does something (we dont know yet) to Slade and he wakes up after 16 days already yelling that something is off and then we see that he is covered in blood and about 20 years younger. So he immediately knows he's not right.

In this 2nd scan (issue 2) we see that after waking up in blood, he's now faced with a character explaining what happened in the not too distant past. We see that Deathstroke has been injected with a substance that could bypass Slades incredible healing factor. That might be messing with his other abilities too if its that powerful. Slade also states before all of this that he's not healing fast enough. So this injection might be a clue as to why he wasnt healing correctly. I will first post the injection scan and then the scan that happened before any of these scans happened where he says he's not healing correctly.

.

Now 2 pages later after discussing the injection that wiped Deathstrokes memory somehow, they get attacked by 300 assassins and Deathstroke immediately notices he's off.

After this encounter, 5 days later Slade is still on the run and he is still thinking about how he feels off. But this time he says he feels as if someone has been messing with his mind. And since he was passed out for 16 days, they might have. Especially considering the writer of this book confirms that Slade is weaker and slower. Could be due to psychological tampering.

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He wants answers, so in this scan he decides to take a drug that supposedly is nothing more than a truth serum, but he doesnt trust the sourcee. He is desperate enough to know the answers so he takes this drug. Which could probably mess with him even more.

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Now here in issue 3 He notices a change in his behavior and how thats not normal for him.

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Here in this scan it shows his son Jericho (a body snatcher) doing something to Slade, but he doesnt remember what he did to him. This is especially important since Jericho's powers have never worked on Slade before. So maybe he added to Slades already nerfed-ness. Heres the scan of Slade saying its never worked on him before.

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Here Slade again, for the 6th time now, i think, mentions how he is off. You kinda get the idea that the writer is trying to tell ya something, huh. LOL

.

And again, he notes his eye and how its throwing him off. Whats this now 7 times he's mentioned he's off? Oh man, this writer wont stop telling us that Slade isnt right, LOL

.

And as if we were elementary school kids and need even more reinforcement to the fact that Slade is off, then of course there are the writers own words who says we will learn why Slade is indeed slower and weaker.

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This all happened before his fight with Batman, where again, Slade notes that he is off, that is eye is messing with him, that he's slower, that he's thinking oddly and slower.

I think that is enough proof. Dont you ? I put a lot of work into this. Much more than the 3 people who are talking crazy deserved.

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The fight was awesome. Truly an amazing encounter. Both were portrayed very fairly. I have no complaints, and the art was amazing.

Also Slade stomped Bronze Tiger, but was fairly even with Batman. Batman is probably better than him. I hope we get to see Slade fight Shiva too. I want to see more of her skills in the new 52

Yep...it looks like you were right... :(

So, Jason overwhelmed her, and now Rose, too? Yeah, Harley helped Rose, but still who's next? Ra's?

Deathstroke was one of the few things that DC was doing right, on the New 52, and even here, they manage to srew up! unbelivable...

There's something really irrational about what Slade said. If he wasn't at 100% how he defeated Bronze Tiger in less than 20 seconds? LOL All his feats show the usual strength, speed, endurance, that he always had.So, the situation isn't clear here. Certainly he has an amnesia, he said something about his eye, but that don't make you weaker, not if you're able to defeat one of the best martial artist in the DCU (Bronze Tiger) like nothing. Anyway, weaker or not, good showings for him, but the fight was almost completely dominated by Batman, as the same Slade said.

Deathstroke will always be better than Batman.