Deathbattle:Superman VS Goku...errors and flaws

We all know the Deathbattle Screwattack finally release-and it's cause quite a disturbance In among DBZ fans;and I for one was really mad and Upset-but I've calm down and realize some facts.But let me assure you this Isn't some rant from another "mad DBZ fan" I have solid facts and I'm not being just "totally bias" in this argument,I love both DBZ DC and Marvel.Now first let me complement the people over at Screwattack for working hard and entertaining us with this Deathbattle it was obvious all the work and research they put in this battle,but one might think with all that research and numbers surely once and for all they finally solve the debate:Wrong..while they did do a great deal of extensive research they still got quite of few things off as well not mentioning some important details.let me get right into it:

DURABILITY: Ok they calculated his durability on the bomb Dr. Gero had built to kill Goku and the blast was also strong enough to destroyed the Earth I belived it was 53 quadrillion megatons.And that's find and all but let's consider he(Dr. Gero) created the Androids to kill Goku(and they did in the future storyline) the question is this:why would Dr Gero make Androids to kill Goku if the bomb was sufficient? I argue It probably was not sufficient to kill Goku.+Dr. Gero HIMSELF said it wasn't strong enughe to kill Goku.And then again the problem is this Android arch Goku,It's like they don't realize how much his Durability would have gone up between then and the end of GT.

Goku Tanks and Deviates a Nuke

In Dragon Ball Goku after fighting with Piccolo survives a nuke blast at point blank range. Goku has a power level fo 300+ (notice right )

You can actually see buildings being toss,and it's causing Tsunami's

(Notice below)

Superman is beaten from near-city explosion which doesn't even have the power of the KI blast Piccolo used

Frieza who was considerably weaker then Goku, survived alot of attacks. Most notably the Spirit bomb, which gathered energy from plants, animals, Namek and even the surronding planets. All that did was knock the wind out of him. Goku by the Frieza saga was already strong enough to survied a Planet buster-thus the calculations for Goku's durability is off ......and this is not to show Goku would rape Superman It''s to show Superman is not as "Super" as people like to make him he can be hurt by force and this proves he's not totally invincible.

SPEED

(This is the link of the blog I made detailing Goku's speed: link:http://www.comicvine.com/profile/cyborgx/blog/how-fast-are-dragon-ball-z-characters/88086/)

Now the way they calculated Goku's speed was by calculating how long it took for him to cross Snakeway,the problem here is who knows exactly how long Snakeway actually is? You really have to guess, but the other problem I have with this is: Goku was just beginning his training with King Kai he wasn't even close to being a Super saiyan; so this calculation has to be off by far.I think a far better way would be this:Goku traveled around Namak in one second and Namak is the same size as the earth.Now some of this information I've have already mention In my blog detailing how fast Goku is-so I'll post some of it here:He flew half way around Namek in a second. Since Namek is the same size as the earth(24,859.82 miles around) that means he flew at about 44,747,676 mph in base form.If we multiplied it to his Super saiyan multipliers faster then 17 billion MPH But were not going to stop there Goku increase from DBZ to GT is stated to be a billion.

GOKU IS A MULTI-SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER. And how can I say that? Well the evidence is in a Power measurement know as "Killi" in DBZ-the Daizenshuu 7 states that a "kili" of 200-300 is enough to destroy one\two planet(s);Super Saiyan Goku fighting yakon had a kili of 3,000-yakon had a kili of 800, with this in mind Goku as a SSJ1(of course by this time Goku was a MSSJ ) could destroyed 15 planets.As a SSJ2 he would be able to destroyed 750 planets-as a SSJ3 he could destroyed 5,250 planets,and as a SSJ4 he could destoyed 52,500 planets.To verifiyd I simply took Goku's killi as a MSSJ and multiplier it by his SSJ multipliers-so saying Goku dosen't have the Energy\Ki ouput to hurt Superman isn't withstanding.

Ok we know Goku's FTL we know he has the Energy\Ki to damage Superman-now lets consider IT....

Instant Transmission is very useful and contrary to what most people think it can be very useful in combat,one of my favorite cases of it is when Goku is fighting Cooler in the DBZ movie:Cooler's revenge. Interesting enough the form of Teleportation" is preformed by Cooler,this is to prove DBZ characters can and do use a from of "Teleportaion" in combat which can be extremely useful in fighting-not just for "Travel".eta-Cooler is first seen using the technique during his fight with Goku on New Namek. He revealed it after Goku used it to dodge a Supernova. Meta-Cooler states "that's quite a clever trick", and Goku responds "Yeah, it's called Instant Transmission", only to have Cooler blandly reply "I know... it's of one my favorite techniques" (in the original version, Cooler stated that he was surprised that Goku knew the move as well). After this, there were times when both used it to fight; when used by both at the same moment, it resulted in the two battling in the dimension that makes up Instant Transmission. When this occurred, once, Meta-Cooler won the first skirmish in the Instant Transmission dimension by grabbing Goku by the leg and slamming him through a mountain; later, Goku entered it to save Vegeta from a crushing blow from Meta-Cooler, who had entered the dimension to surprise Vegeta.So Goku could very well use "IT"to surprised Superman and perhaps make up for any speed differences.

"KAIO KEN"

This is more of my viewpoint and stands from a hypothetical point of view:so I was thinking about Kaio ken and how it could still be use by Goku even though he long attained the SSJ transformations,I though to myself how the highest Kaio Ken we saw Goku preformed was Kiaon ken X 20 this was when he was facing Frieza on planet Namak, at that particular time his body could only sustain K-KX20 as a SSJ4 why couldn't Goku sustained Kiao-ken X 200?Think about how much that would Amp is power... possibly Thousands even Tens of thousands of times.

On another note I think largely Goku suffer defeat in the Deathbattle due to inaccuracy of measurements for Superman lets consider:There's more verison's of Superman then Flavors of Ice cream so it's very very impotent we know with incarnation of Superman were dealing with. Deathbattle claim to use Modern Superman that is 86 to now however they ignore this by using feats for other versions of Superman such as All star Superman which really shows the lack of Credabillity.Then one of the most major flaws they let Superman Sun-dip-which is unfair because they gave Superman an Advantage while giving none to Goku.Also they made like Superman gain such a "huge power bost" by just Sun bathing a few seconds while in the Comicbook they quoted it took Superman 10 mins to archived the feat of moving planets.Buyt then you have to ask yourself why would a Bloodlusted(I will discusse more about this later) Goku let Superman do that anyway?Also by letting Superman Sun-dip they are saying he's not strong enough to killed Goku without a powerup. Notice this comment from a Superman fan I quote:

"I've read both, manga and comics for decades and Im not pulling for one or the other, However I have to point out the facts. The deathbattle's info were COMPLETELY inaccurate and I'll tell you why. 1st. even tho they said that they used modern Superman in his "prime" they actually didn't. Superman, in his prime, was not as strong as they made him to be in the video, not only that, but deathbattle used SOME different versions of Superman( modern superman is just one version of him) and his powers and added them together in which most of those powers, Superman didn't get but after the version of modern superman. Now when it comes to Goku, there's only one version of him. Also, Saiyans DON'T have any primelife. in the DBZ manga, it's established that the more saiyans fight the stronger they become AND also, saiyans don't age at the same rate like anybody else because of their DNA structure making them the best fighting beings in the universe( thats why Freeza destroyed their planet out of fear). Thats why 54 year old Goku is WAY MORE powerful than 25 year old Goku. Another thing I want to point out is that both, Superman and Goku were WAY out of character making the" Fighting Mode" Goku dumb and Superman not caring about the earth by destroying it. To me as a Superman fan, that video insulted what Superman is about. Superman would rather die than destroying the earth. Also if Goku wanted to fight Superman, he would use the hyperbolic time chamber to "SPAR" with Superman knowing that they are too strong to fight on earth, that way neither one of them have or not have an advantage on one another but if I have to, IF I HAVE TO give the edge on one of them, "WHEN IT COMES TO FIGHTING" I have to give it to Goku because Superman have lost in the hands of Lex Luthor, Batman AND Wonderwoman which according to the comics, they are way weaker than Superman not to mention, some of them were just humans in compares to Goku, Goku ALWAYS find a way to win against more powerful foes than himself"

He point's out some very valid points on the mistakes Deatbattle made-which makes the whole fight-Inaccurate.

STRENGTH:Goku once lifted 40 tons in base(10 X earth's gravity) so he actually lifted 400 tons with ease as a SSJ1, using his SSJ multipliers and his power increase at the VERY least Goku can lift:620,000,000 Million Tons.However I do Agreed Superman would be Stronger when it comes to LIFTING strength only.Which will not help him win this fight.

DEATHBATTLE MISTAKES and Calculations

These's are some mistake's that I and others have found.

Death Battle’s Snake Way Calculation for Goku’s Speed Analysis is Inaccurate because

• Traverse time is irrelevant in the Dragonball Universe based on the Manga, Akira Toriyama in linked Interviews, the Daizenshu and Common Sense AND
• It is based on drawings which were not drawn to scale.

The Death Battle Snake Way Analysis is incorrect becuase it relied on a faulty scaling analysis based on drawings that were not drawn to scale as well as discounted loops thus making up the curvatures and other features in their "calculation."

AND Goku by the 2nd World Martial Arts Tournament he enters, moves so fast that Roshi (looking head on like the bullet) and everyone else looking from every perspective (360°) and varying distances (because it is not a proximity issue) cannot see him! He is moving so fast that he is invisible and only an echo of his movements can be detected(Notice above)

Later Goku can even dodge lasers,lasers (depending on frequency) Lasers move at the speed of light

At the World Martial Arts Tournament while fighting Tien Goku demonstrates his new speed and outruns another light speed attack! A solar flare!

GOKU was so fast he was able to get glasses and come back before the light hits his eyes!

Goku moves so fast that even Kami can't see him.(Notice left)

• Gravity: 586 x SPEED

  • 586 x 5,112,225m/s= 2,995,778,500 m/s

    • 2,995,778,500 m/s = 2,995,778.5 km/s

• Base Form: 2,995,778. 5 km/s

• SS1: 149,788,925 km/s

• SS2: 299,577,850 km/s

• SS3: 1,198,311,400 km/s

• SS4: 11,983,114,000 km/s

• NOTE:

  • The above proven fighting speed disregards

    • Goku dodging lasers

    • Goku catching a Dragonball

    • Goku out running a Solar Flare

    • Goku becoming Faster than Lighting

    • Goku training for 3 years with Kami and all the other specifically unquantifiable training speed increases

    • DeathBattle said Goku was 2.5billion km/hr AT SS4 ...

      THEY ARE WRONG.

      GOKU SHOULD BE MINIMALLY 183 billion km/hr in SS4(over 113 Billion Mph-Note the Speed of Light is roughly 670 Million Mph) (45,922,320km/hr in base form) because he can cross Earth's diameter in one second in the Freiza Saga.

      This speed is based solely on what Goku quantifiably did on Namek, granted he would be significantly faster in base form by Cell and even more so by the Buu saga. However, there is no way for me to accurately definitely say what that increase would be and I am not going to make guesses for this blog.

      How I arrived at this Accurate Figure:

      V-Jump (a magazine about Manga) published an Article with tha approval of Shōnen Jump (the Japanese manga anthology magazine that published the DragonBall and DragonBall Z mangas) stating that Namek was the size of Earth (ie the distance that Goku crosses in one second).

      Earth diameter: 12 756.2 kilometers
      Goku can cross that in a second as he did on Namek so he can go 12 756.2 km/s or 45,922,320km/hr

      At SS1:637,810km/s = 142,674,033 Mph)2,296,116,000 km/hr 2.29 billion km/hr

      At SS2:1,275,620km/s =285 Million Mph),592,232,000 km/hr 4.59 billion km.hr

      At SS3: 5,102,480km/s = Over 11 Billion MPH)18,368,928,000 km/hr 18.3 billion km/hr

      At SS4: 51,024,800 km/s =Over 185,250,000,000 Mph

      However, I am unable to find a link to that Article so I will be calculating Namek's size based on quantifiable feats within the Manga and will derive a number from that.

      According to Death Battle: Nimbus only goes mach 1.5 which is 510.43500 m / s

      So BEFORE getting powered up by Guru in 2hrs Krillen could go: 3,675,132meters

      • (Krillen could fly at least as fast as nimbus [mach 1.5] by the time the Saiyans arrive because all the Saibamen had the fighting capabilities (which includes speed) of Raditz and Krillen kills 4 on his own)

      AND

      • Piccolo (who was slower than Raditz ) could keep up with Goku’s nimbus cloudwearing his weighted clothing with no effort)

      Piccolo is weaker and slower than Raditz and he can keep up with Nimbus with ease (still wearing weighted clothing):

      because Raditz handily outclassed Goku and Piccolo this is a very modest estimate of placing Krillen’s speed at the Saibamen fight (ie still under Piccolo’s at the beginning of Dragonball Z who was slower and weaker than Raditz). However, that low estimate is irrefutable based on the above given speed feats which were easily quantifiable.

      This minimum of Mach 1.5 speed is confirmed by the fact that before increasing his speed from Guru it takes Krillen and Dende nearly a full day to reach Guru.

      However, we cannot calculate that figure because Krillen only goes top speed at some points and stops and starts at multiple way points, and even carries Dende at one point.

      BUT AFTER Guru's power increase it is quite easy to acurately figure the size of Namek's radius based on Krillen's travel speed and time:

      s Gohan was nowhere even remotely near Goku’s level on Earth let alone Vegeta’s.

      ***NOTE: I am NOT using power scaling or power levels. I am doing a side by side analytical ratio and seeing what the minimum distribution on increase in speed, strength, etc. for Krillen would be. If you say Krillen is faster than Mach 3 that only increases Namek's size based on the further distance he would travel in 2 hours. However, it is clear based on the manga that Krillen on Namek after seeing Guru can go at least mach 3.

      Now Calculating Distance:

      § The Circumference of Earth is roughly 40,007.86 km

      • Circumference= pi x d so 40,007.86= pi x d...d= 12,756.2 km.

      • The width of Earth on one side, its diameter, not it circumference, is 12,756.2km.

      At a maximum 1/8 of planet Namek (1/2 it’s radius in a straight line, what Krillen flew) is 7,350.264km or 7,350,264m

      So that would make its diameter: 29,401,056meters (because you take the line Krillen flew which is half the raidus and multiply it by 2 to get the raidus (7,350,264meters x2=14,700,528m).

      And multiply Namek's radius by 2 to get the diameter (14,700,528x2=29,401,056m).

      This makes the cirucumference of Namek: 92,319,314 km (29,401.056km x pi) OR 42,244.315km in circumference larger than Earth.

      [Namek (92,319.112)-Earth(40,075km)]=42,244.315km

      Further Explained:

      The distance between the cave that Krillen is traveling to and Guru’s is at most 1/8 of the planet because it is between Freeza’s ship and Guru’s on the other side of the planet (so we are only looking at a straight line on one half of the planet).

    • Travel Time: less than a second to cover the distance of a planet bigger than Earth.

      New Traverse Speed: from one side of planet Namek to the other in a second: 29,401,056m/s in base form or 105,843,801.6 km/hr

      Proof: Krillen in 2hrs =7,350,264meters or 7,350.264km to cave which is 1/2 its RADIUS of Namek AT THE MOST. So do 7,350.264m x4=Diameter= 29,401.056 km. (size of namek from one side to the other)

      Goku traveled 29,401.056 km in a second or 105,843,801.6 km/hr which in SS4 is 423,375,206,400km/hr (423 billion km/hr)

    • If we say Namek is equal to Earth that still means Goku is way faster than what Wiz made up:

      Earth diameter: 12,756.2 kilometers

      Goku gets there in a second so he can go 12 756.2 km/s or 45,922,320km/hr

      So Traverse time as a Super Saiyan 1 is : 2,296,116,000 km/hr. This figure is confirmed by the entire Frieza Fight taking only 5 minutes and Goku going all over the planet from where Vegeta died, back to Porunga the all the way to the Namekian Village Vegeta Destroyed far north of Freeza’s ship, then to Where the cave was, and back to Freeza’s ship as it was closer than his own ship.

      And in SS4 is 45,922,320 km.hr x4,0000 so 183,689,280,000km/hr or 183 billion km/hr

    • Keep in mind in the Dragonball World what matters for speed analysis should be the fighting and not the traverse times, but in order to not over power Goku I will ONLY use the traverse speed for this analysis.

      BUT if TRAVERSE SPEED is how Wiz wanted to base the analysis then he should have done so ACCURATELY, like the above, rather than a made up formula based on curvatures and scaling which meant absolutely nothing and did not reflect Goku’s abilities and conflicted with the Dragonball Manga.

    • In order to appear truly invisible the person because of distance and other perceptions must being going the Speed of Light because of the way light bends around them. Article Posted below link: http://www.hhmi.org/bulletin/nov2011/pdf/ask_a_scientist.pdf

      SCIENCE ARTICLE PROOF:
      “How fast would an object have to move to be invisible to the naked eye?

      Could Dash from “The Incredible's" really run so fast that we could not see him?

      The short answer is yes, Dash could run fast enough to be invisible. Exactly how fast he would have to run depends on many factors. For an object to be visible, light particles (photons) must bounce off the object and into your eye. There must be enough light that specialized neurons in the eye—the rod and cone cells that form the photosensitive pixels of the retina—are activated to a level that triggers awareness. If Dash zipped through your field of view so quickly that too little light from him reached your retina, you would not see him. What is the minimum amount of light required? In a classic experiment, people in complete darkness were exposed to flashes of light. Only the rod photoreceptors were sensitive enough to detect the light intensities used in this experiment. At the minimum flash brightness required to trigger visual awareness, onlya handful of rods each absorbed just one photon. The implication is striking: single cells, capturing single particles of light, can trigger perception. However, at best, the rods can provide only a low-resolution image. To see and recognize Dash requires cone photoreceptors. Cones allow high-resolution color vision in brighter light. Unlike rods, individual cones must absorb many photons to generate a sizeable response.

      And since each cone contributes a single pixel to the final image, many cones are required to “draw” Dash on the retina. If Dash were moving fast, photons bouncing off him would be scattered across many cones, and each of these cones might be insufficiently activated, so Dash would be invisible. If there were just a little more activation, he would appear as a blur. The less light there is, the more Dash can afford to take it easy. At noon when there is a surplus of photons, he has to be at his speediest to be invisible. Other factors are at play. One is eye movement. We never look steadily at a single point in space. We are not aware of it, but our eyes constantly dart from one location in the visual scene to another. They make small jumps that last about a fifth of a second. These jumps are called “saccades,” during which our visual system is suppressed. If Dash shot past during a saccade, you would not see him. If he ran past a crowd, chances are that at least some people would be in midsaccade and would miss him. The bottom line is, a complete answer to your question does not exist. How much light is required for a good cone signal, how activity across the array of cones is assembled into an image, how the visual system shuts down during a saccade, and other factors such as attention are active research areas. Answered by Michael Tri Do,_ an assistant professor at Children’s Hospital Boston,Harvard Medical School.”

    • ALL of the above confirm that GOKU CAN FIGHT AND DODGE AT MASSIVELY FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEEDS.

      Now, do not misunderstand my point. My point is NOT that Z warriors ALWAYS fight at light speed and massively faster, far from it as there are many times at the World Tournament where the crowd is able to see parts of the battle. However, as the above physics article discusses moving at just under lightspeed is still able to be seen from all angles depending on distance, but to be truly invisible like some parts of the fights in Dragonball and onward means that the characters were fighting at at least Light Speed or Faster.

      Thus, if you discount the proven Namek traverse speed analysis and the fighting speed anlysis in favor of one based on character depictions it only makes Goku even faster. This is because from Dragonball and onward the fighters are at least capable of fighting and dodging at light speed, but cannot necessarily always do it or cover a large distance at that speed based on how it is depicted in the story. BUT AGAIN we know Goku can cross Earth in one second as he did on Namek and that is his lowest proven speed feat so I am going to use that.

      Proof on How Speed in the Dragonball Universe is Depicted:

      • In Dragonball in the manga and the show the fight panels and scenes are slowed down so that we, the audience, can see it rather than doing it real time, every time.

        • Akira Toriyama made this clear with Krillen vs. Master Roshi fight in dragon ball: They have a full fight and conversation in les that a full second!! AND THIS IS IN DragonBall!!

        • How Fast are (SOME OF) the beams?

          

          • The speed of light=186,000 Miles per second (roughly)

          • Moon, Distance to Earth= 238,900 miles (384,400,000 m)

          • (so a little under 2 seconds) .

          • Piccolo destroys the moon in an instant barely even a second:

          • 

            The Kamehameha at least at Full Power for Roshi is FTL!

          • 

            

            Raditz was fast enough to dodge the FTL Kamehameha (as established by Roshi's moon feat)

          • Superman’s most powerful attack is his Infinite Mass Punch:

            • Which according to DeathBattle and the comics is:

            • “Done by going just under light speed”

            • (299,792.458 km/ s > Superman’s speed for the punch)

            • “The speed causes his fists to increase immensely and hits with the force of a Supernova” “which explodes at a force of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 MT”

            • Superman’s move is massively slower than Goku at SS1. Who incidentally in Base form could still likely move far enough out of Superman's way because Goku only needs to avoid him and the fists as they come towards him. Which more likely than not Goku would do because unlike Superman he'd rather dodge a planet busting attack or deflect it than take it head on.

              • • SO the ONLY WAY Goku could be hit by this attack is if he were already unconscious, low on energy, or in base form.

                • Further this attack requires a massive amount of energy and thus once Superman used it he would be vulnerable.

                • Obviously this attack is not feasible for a fight between Superman and Goku and thus irrelevant.

                • 

                  Superman surviving the force of Earth to the face

                • • • So how much force is that?
                      • Hard to say and it would be a mere guess becuase there is no distance from how high Superman was to how far below he went nor a time frame for the propulsion.
                        • Suffice is to say Superman can take a concusive hit to the face that is equal to smashing a medium sized planet into him
                        • which incidentally confirms the above New Genesis and Apokolips feat

                  • Superman vs a Sun Eater and getting hit with Red Sunlight thus reducing some of his power. (Not really a durability feat but more just impressive as it shows what Superman is capable of in space as well as a good demonstration of his solar energy reserves )

                    • But it is stated that 1x10^46 J = would incenrate the man of steel when less than full on solar energy.

                      • The force of 50xKepler’s Supernova would incinerate Superman:

                      • The explosion was caused by the destruction of the power generator for the entire planet of Calaton

                      • 

                        Armed with a more powerful armored suit Superman is able to Survive the force of a million nuclear blasts: Note: Tsar bomb [most destructive nuclear bomb to date= 57 MT, another DeathBattle error they said only 50MT) ] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

• • 57MT x 1,000,000= 57,000,000 MT or 5.7x10^7Mt

• ...Superman's durability is still confirmed as stronger in space than on a planet with an atmosphere and/or plants etc. that absorb solar radiation.

  • (Notably surviving the 10^44 explosion of the Shadow moon involved no expolsion of solar raidation so saying that tanking the force of supernovas is only possible becuase they release solar enrgy is incorrect. However, Superman's access and hence ability to absorb more solar radiation in space due to not having to compete with an atmosphere or other solar radiation absorbing objects like on the surface of a planet is not an incorrect observation.)
  • (Nor is it incorrect to observe that Superman's clothese were more tattered whilst being at the center of the 10^44J blast in the shadow moon feat after expelling energy to stay under the speed of light and thus enduring all of that force with less power as opposed to the significantly unscathed clothing of Superman who also was inside a Supernova explosion but notably only went from planet to sun as opposed to exerting effort to do an attack)

• (which makes sense becuase in Space Superman is closer to a sun and has more access to direct sunlight due to the rays going directly to him as opposed to being spread out all over earth where plants and other animals absorb the light or the light simply bounces back off etc.)

• Further, this is also why Superman flies up in Earth's atmosphere [to be closer to the sun] to heal or restore his energy.

HOWEVER, Mongul did not nor could he train Superman to make his body more durable or absorb more solar raidation faster as those are involuntary reflexes. This is confirmed by Superman's body going into a healing coma after his initial fight with Doomsday as well as automatically aborbing Kryptonite radiation when in the presence of it and being unable to prevent himself from doing so. Superman's body is constantly absorbing and takes care of its own durability, it is an involuntary reflex not a voluntary reflex or muscle movement that he could train. BUT even if one wishes to erroneously claim that Mongul made Superman more durable than the Doomsday fight , which no media says, it is irrelevant as Superman had the Motherbox armor WHICH MADE HIM "More Invulnerable."

• • Crater on the Moon:

    • NASA astronomers watched it form: On May 2, 2006, a meteoroid hit the Moon's Sea of Clouds (Mare Nubium) with 17 billion joules of kinetic energy and all that was left was a 14 meters wide (radius is 7m), 3 meters deep crater. (17,000,000,000,= 17x10^9) http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/13jun_lunarsporadic/

    • Mass of moon = 7.36 × 10^22 kg

    • Volume of moon = 2.199 x 10^19 m3

    • Density of the moon = mass/volume = 3347 (kgm-3)

  • What type of power would need to be generated to create a crater that size?

    • Nasa said : 17 billion joules of kinetic energy to create that Crater: with a Volume of 461.58m3

• Volume= pi (r)2 x depth: V= pi (7m)^2 x 3m = 461.58m3

• SO

  • To create a crater with a Volume of = 461.58m3

    • Requires 17x10^9J

  • To destroy the Volume of the moon=2.199 x 10^19 m3

    • Requires 8.098x10^26J

  • Going off of that ratio: I hypothesized to destroy the volume of the Earth=1.1×10^21 m3

    • Would require 3.68X10^28J

  • However, the Earth is much denser so factoring that in another individual found that if the Earth were a totally smooth surface without mountains (mountains would make it more durable) it would take 10^32J to destroy planet Earth. http://io9.com/5876473/how-much-energy-would-the-death-star-require-to-destroy-earth

• 10^32J. to destroy planet Earth

  • SO then as of the Cell saga Goku in SS1 after fighting at a very intense level can do a Kamehameha blast worth 10^32 J in Cell Saga at SS1

    • Going up in levels (NOT Power Scaling increasing the output as based on the quanifiable multipliers)

      • at SS2=2x10^32J and

      • SS3=2x4x10^32J and

      • SS4=2x4x10x10^32J;

        • and a x10 Kamehameha would equal the same power of the SS4 x10 so 10x(1.6x10^33)

        • or under powering roughly: 10^34J

        • • So to figure out the power of the Super Dragon Fist we must calculate the durability of Omega Shenron which SS4 Goku's Super Dragon Fist was able to penetrate:

            • SO on the INCREDIBLY LOW end, we know with 0 effort Syn tanked Goku's 10x Kamehameha,

              • so if we multiply that durability by 10 that is at the very bare minimum what Goku's Super Dragon Fist can definitively do.

                • Obviously this is by no means the max power that Goku can generate in the Super Dragon fist becuase as already stated Syn with no effort tanked that blast.

                  • Either way it is irrefutable that the Super Dragon Fist minimally produces 10x 10^34J OR

                  • minimally 10^35J

          SO GOKU's ability to use ki for HIS attacks equals (at least):

          (Super Kamehameha) + (Kamehameha x 10) + (Kamehameha x 10) + [Super Dragon Fist]

          • which equals 2.11x10^35J + [10^35J] = 12.11x10^35

          This gives you Goku’s (minimum) energy potential (notably it should be many degrees higher as I could not accurately add in Goku’s punches, kick, flying, transforming, etc. energy usage and this is solely based off of his energy attacks, NOR did I know what the max durability of Syn Shenron)

        • In GT on at least 1 Ocassion Omega states he can blow up the universe (see above) and in 2 separate instances other characters confirm Omega can blow up the universe and has actually blown up galaxies in the past:

• • • • Popo heard of that. Long, long ago, Evil Dragon appeared on other planet. It said that planet soon destroyed, then all of cosmos around that planet wiped out.”

  • (4:10) Grand Elder Kai:

    • Dub

      • “That Creature and the Creatures that it spawned are not only capable of destroying the Earth BUT the entire universe as well!!”

    • Subtitles

      • “If you leave those guys alone they will destroy not only Earth, but the ENTIRE UNIVERSE!”

• The theoretical power required to destroy the universe is: 4×10^69 J because that is the estimated total mass-energy of the observable universe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28energy%29

• If Omega Shenron can CREATE such a blast and is weaker than SS4 Fusion which is an exponential increase in power then at a bare minimum SS4 Gogeta can do that same blast in order to defeat Omega.

• • Syn Shenron v. Goku SS4 =

    • fairly even (and Syn tanks a 10x Kamehameha no effort)

  • Omega Shenron v. 2 SS4s=

    • both Vegeta and Goku clearly outclassed with their (added) strength working together (i.e. 2.11x10^35J + 2.11x10^35J = 4.11 x10^35 for example if they were to fire an attack together like they did against Buu before fusion)

    • Proof: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgTLj71TWzc)

  • Omega Shenron v. SS4 Gogeta

  • (exponentially stronger than SS4 Goku or Vegeta and SS4 Gogeta using his ultimate blast that he could only fire 2 times based on the amount of power they use and power the SS4 Gogeta Fusion uses was able to reduce Omega with one Big Bang Kamehameha from Omega to Synn Shenron http://youtu.be/536jJ9_g9Bw?t=3m2s )

  • SO how powerful was that attack? First figure out what is SS4 Gogeta's ki potential:

    • Take Goku's energy calculations (minus super dragon fist) which equals 2.11x10^35J (w/o Super Dragin fist included--you will see why below) and square it

      • (that makes Gogeta weaker than 2 fused Gokus)

      • and incidentally would be the power level Goku and Vegeta would need to be at so that they are equal in order to fuse if one assume SS4 Goku is stronger than SS4 Vegeta. (fusion requires that then energies be perfectly even).

        • Therefore SS4 Gogeta is not overpowered:

          • fused: (2.11x10^35J)^2 = 2.11x10^70J

      • Placing SS4 Goegta's ki attack potential on the low end of2.11x10^70J and halving that power gives you a low end calculation of SS4 Gogeta's Bing Bang Kamehameha (had he used it sooner SS4 Gogeta could only perform 2) so it would be:

        • 1/2 of 2.11x10^70J = one big bang bang Kamehameha

        • [which is (2.11x10^70J)/2]= 1.055x10^70J

      • Confirmed by the Fusion wearing off after 1 attack and only being able to perform 2.

  • Thus proving that Omega Shenron is exponentially more durable after his absorbtion/fusion with the other Dragons.

    • Synn Shenron: easily withstand one 10x Kamehameha (ie 10^34J) no effort.

    • Thus at a minimum we need to ^2 Synn Shenron's durability for it to be equal to Omega's because it took 1.055x10^70J which is more than (10^34)^2J of damage to break through Omega's durability and that STILL DID NOT completely destroy Omega, yet the Super Dragon Fist went through him and Omega recovered!

    • which ALSO verifies the power Omega can generate to destroy the entire universe with a 10^68J+ blast!

    • • Superman's Durability in Space

        • Superman Durability on Shadow Moon:

          • 10e44J = 2.39e+29Mt

        • Superman Durability in Superman vs. the Elite:

          • 15x (10^44) =1.5e46J= 3.58e+30Mt

        • Superman Being Smashed between to Planets and being knocked unconscious

          • 1.8x10^35J= 4.30210325e+19Mt

      • Superman's Durability on Earth:

        • 1,000,000 Nuclear Blast Euivalent

          • 2.39e+23J = 5.7e+7Mt

      • Goku Attack Power:

        • One Super Dragon Fist: between

          • 10e35J = 2.39e+20 Mt

          • 10e68J = 2.39e+53 Mt

          • AND the High End Calculation clearly shows Goku CAN kill Superman with Super Dragon Fist EVEN in Space

          • BUT Can Goku survive a fight with Superman long enough to even pull it off?!?

            Could Superman just TAKE GOKU into SPACE and never worry about the Super Dragon Fist?!?!?

            WHAT IS GOKU’s DURABILITY!?

            1st Why DeathBattle is Wrong:

            Deathbattle failed to analyze Goku's use of Ki and how that translates to his durability, strength, and striking power. ("One Shot" Striking power already discussed above)

            Death Battle's Durability = Potential calculation is ludicrous for the simple reason that Goku through using Kaio Ken and SS forms INCREASES his power output beyond what his base form is capable of. Otherwise he would be able to tap into the same potential in base form and not need the power up.

            In fact the manga directly contradicts DeathBattle: Kaio-ken allows Goku to become "even stronger than [himself]"

            FURTHER, Dr. Gero did not even know Goku could turn into a Super Saiyan and there is no proof that the bomb in Android 16 would have even worked on Goku.

            Again, the Manga even conflicts with Death Battle's analysis becuase Dr. Gero admits he was wrong

          • 

            

            What DeathBattle put Goku's peak strength at was the result of trying to quantify what was easy rather than what was accurate. Goku states that in SS form the weight is "a piece of cake"-

            

            • So how strong is Goku? Stronger than 10 tons on each limb that's for sure!

              • BUT even if one erroneously concludes that this training is Goku's max strength, it still does not change the outcome of how hard Goku hits or what his destructive capablities are based on his use of Ki.

              • Kaio-Ken, Super Saiyan, etc. all make Goku "stronger" than his base form "stronger than he actually is". Thus, disproving DeathBattle's durability=potential power calcualtion.

              • More to the point his striking power exceeds his durability as seen via his Super Dragon Fist's proven destructive power.

              So then what we need to know is how durable is Goku compared to Superman's assault capabilities. From here I will now do that this training is Goku's max strength, it still does not change the outcome of how hard Goku hits or what his destructive capabilities are based on his use of Ki.

            • More to the point his striking power exceeds his durability as seen via his Super Dragon Fist's proven destructive power.

            • 

              Even in front of the Sun Wonder Woman is STILL quicker (see her shove Kryptonite into Superman's face):

            • 

              Again Superman can be infanently faster than Goku, but not in an instant=so while Superman is most likely faster then Goku in a race but not when it comes to Acceleration or Combat speed

            • Thus, Goku's acceleration and proven massively faster than lightspeed fighting gives him an edge to avoid such maneuvers of being flown into the sun.

              Like Wonder Woman Goku is quicker than Superman do to his constant battle training and Saiyan muscle memory; so observing or sensing even the subtle movements of Superman would prevent Goku from being hoisted away by Superman to the sun.

            • So how much force:

            • does it take to “Shatter a Small Planet”?

              • Luckily I do not have to put an exact number on how much force it takes to “Shatter a Small Planet” because we have proof that Goku can withstand the force of punches that would shatter individuals whose durability without ki can withstand medium sized planet explosions.

                • More force is needed to explode than shatter as shattering can still leave large remnants of the object intact whereas an explosion is a near or actual total disintegration of the object.

                  • Consequently, because Goku can withstand punches that SHATTER individuals who tank MEDIUM sized planet EXPLOSIONS he can also withstand punches that SHATTER small planets,

                    • because shattering a planet requires less concussive force than exploding it.

              PROOF:

              Earth is the largest terrestrial planet in our solar systemhttp://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/geodesyearthsize.htmand overall is a medium sized planethttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/milky-way-planets-17-billion-nasa-kepler-telescope_n_2426568.html

              Freiza’s durability is unable to withstand Goku's final blast to him on Namek BUT when the planet exploded he did not sustain any more damage. Frieza’s body was able to withstand the explosion of a medium sized planet without virtually any ki.

              Proof that Goku's blast did more than the planet blowing up:

            • Thus, Frieza has the durability, without virtually any ki and cut in half, to tank the explosion of Planet Namek, which is minimally the size of Earth.

              Which is confirmed by Frieza also having the power to kick away planet busting attacks with ease, without using any ki (notice the lack of energy surrounding Frieza):

              Looking at the Anime: If we include a filler scene then it further confirms that like Cell’s enhance regenerative capabilities beyond what Piccolo can do so too are his Frieza durability cells more enhanced than even Frieza’s no ki durability, because a destructo disk type ki blast sliced Frieza in half but does nothing to Cell:

            • 

              Gohan’s kicks and punches shatter through all the planet tanking durable Cell Jr.’s (not an assumption they all have the same cell’s as Cell who has Frieza’s cells)

            • But nonetheless Gohan’s punches shattered individuals capable of withstanding medium planet explosions without ki (ie Freiza). And even with Ki as a defense Gohan’s fist shattered the Cell Juniors who had the durability to tank at least medium planet explosions becuase they have Frieza's cells.

              

              Goku is stronger than SS2 Gohan when he fought Cell and that is not even the peak of Goku’s power:

            • OKU IS DURABLE ENOUGH TO WITHSTAND SUPERMAN’S “SMALL PLANET SHATTERING PUNCHES”

              MORE PROOF:

              This is confirmed by Trunks, who had the slicing power to cut medium sized planet exploding Frieza in Half going all out against Goku and being unable to harm Goku:

              

              Trunks slices medium sized planet exploding durable Frieza:

            • 

              Proof this is a feat of strength and not the weapon:

            • Being able to destroy Frieza with one blow takes someone of medium planet cracking strength becuase Frieza tanked Namek exploding.

              Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger then all of the Kai's as he was able to take on Kid Buu and tank his blows as well has harm him which means more force per punch as all the Kais were just killed.

            • in GT Baby, who is massively stronger than a SS3 [which hits 4x more than a SS2 (which can easily destory beings who can withstand medium sized planets exploding), hits SS4 Goku and his punches do virtually no damage:] http://youtu.be/WfHOUW5M8Qs?t=59s

            • Baby in his near strongest form (before Golden Oozaru) punches Goku SS4 with no affect.

            • Those are the same punches that when Baby was in a weaker form decimated SS3 Goku http://youtu.be/Vi0U5w_71wY?t=5m16s

            • And Baby in his new mighty form still destroyed SS3 Goku with those punches http://youtu.be/ZXbznco8Sxc?t=16s

            • In sum: Goku is durable enough to tank, catch, and dish out punches and kicks that would shatter someone who could tank a medium sized planet explosion, if he is using his ki.

              Goku is durable enough to withstand small planet shattering punches

            • Ice Breath will be ineffective on Goku becuase Goku has already encounter Eis Shenron who used freezing attacks, and once Goku's body experiences an attack it remembers and compensates for the next round.

            • Goku can withstand the surface temperature of the sun without it melting his skin or even actually burning him. Surface Temperature of the sun is approximately 5778 K (9940.73°F).

              Proof: Goku fighting Nova Shenron:http://www.dbz.tv/3/watch/dragonball-gt-episode-54/ )

              • (6:09 Goku's hands cannot take the heat but keep watching and see how his body adapts)

              • (Nova states at 6:36 he can make his temperature hotter than the sun) .

                If you watch the whole episode you can see that at first Goku's hands cannot even touch Nova in his less intensive temperature state without being burnt or catching on fire. But then Goku builds up the resisitance, as he explained about his body to Eis Shenron [above]. After building up the resistance Goku is able to even be held for long periods by the higher temperature sun surface upgraded version of Nova in his golden body state.

                So since Superman's intial blast without time to increase its power isaround 2400°F (at most...considering the power plant figure I used is very generous), that means Goku would be 4 times more durable than Superman's initial output of such a blast that he could issue.

              • Thus, arguably if Goku's gaurd is either down (Majin Vegita) or he is totally outclassed by his opponent (Billis) then a pressure point attack could work!

                .However, Superman's striking power is peacked at Small Planet Shattering Punches, without momentum, and that is lower than what Goku repeatedly endured from Majin Vegeta when Goku was at SS2. At SS3 Goku can easily endure 4 times as much.

                o really this technique of Superman's is nothing Goku has not been encountering since his first appearance at the Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku is an expert martial artist, he would not just stand there and allow Superman to poke all over him without putting up a defense.

                In addition a Saiyan body learns from attacks and when it heals up is more durable (see the above and below scans discussing only being able to use an attack on Goku once) because his body compensates for the attack the next round. As such, Superman's pressure point maneuvers are essentially moot against Goku.

              • THE DEATHBATTLE:
              • Really the whole purpose of this blog is to "attack" the Deathbattle not Superman-to show how inaccurate their calculations were.Also Goku was not even "Bloodlusted" were as Superman was and going all out.Then to make matters worse they let Superman Sun-dip an din just a few seconds he was strong enough to killed Goku-while in the Comics it could take 10-15 minutes for Superman to become that strong.They also grossly underestimated Goku's strengh\Durability and Speed by basing them on things that were not true,Also they didn't realize or fator in that by the time GT rolled around Goku at base was as strong as a SSJ3! ww know this because when Goku fights General Rilldo he states his(Rilldo) Ki was stronger then Buu's and he was able to fight him in base form.Thus Goku as a kid and at base = SSJ3 Adutl Goku-the power increased from Z to GT is HUGE but this is never factor in doing the fight All this proves how unjust the whole fight was I just hoped they make better fights in the future-because I really do like DB.
                

            CONCLUSION

          • (I also apologize for any and all grammatical errors)
          • after seeing Goku being killed by the hand Superman made me angry beyond words-especially since there was so much evidence they fell to incorporate but I made this blog to prove otherwise however the debate for who would win will most likely never end so in conclusion I just wanted to show people that Goku can definitively hold a candle to the Man of Steel.But after this blog i'm done debating the issue...all in all we Nerds just need to laugh after it's said and done-And I quote

            "As a Superman fan, I would like to come back here and extend a hand of offering to make peace with Goku fans.

            Goku and Superman have both done something that NO OTHER CHARACTER has ever done. They've both transcended their status in Pop Culture and have become genuine cultural icons. Both are beyond measuring and beyond calculation. THAT is the real error that Death Battle made. These are characters that could never be quantified.

            Superman and Goku fans should both hold their heads up high as far as they can go, because you know what guys? As far as childhood idols go, well... we picked some DAMN good role models, I tell ya. Two beings who are crusaders for justice and good who will stop at nothing to take down the evils of this world. THAT'S what's important. THAT'S what should bind all of us.

            Both heroes are great. Too great for this battle. Not only would they never fight, but they're literally in a league of their own. And that is something you cannot put into numbers............................ Goku and Superman fans, walk away with your heads held high!

          • Respect:Superman Goku!"-END Quote
          • So in the end Goku IS Much MUCH faster then what Deathbattle stated, as well is much stronger,Goku could definitely Kill Superman giving the Opportunity.

Allot of the things you said was speculation and you clearly know nothing about deathbattle's rules.

You're logic is flawed. If I survive a car driving into me, someone kills me with their bare hands does that me they're stronger and faster than a speeding car?

@immortalone:

@immortalone said:

Well you cared enough to comment..so yeah.

What did I miss about Screwattack's rules?

*popcorns*

Its a shame that most of the people that comment in here wont even read OP and just post something trying to bash the creator of the thread.

Low end feats. Great.

Not only did they not support powerscaling and powerlevels which every DBZ fan likes to ignore apparently.

Also

Then one of the most major flaws they let Superman Sun-dip-which is unfair because they gave Superman an Advantage while giving none to Goku.Also they made like Superman gain such a "huge power bost" by just Sun bathing a few seconds while in the Comicbook they quoted it took Superman 10 mins to archived the feat of moving planets.Buyt then you have to ask yourself why would a Bloodlusted(I will discusse more about this later) Goku let Superman do that anyway?Also by letting Superman Sun-dip they are saying he's not strong enough to killed Goku without a powerup.

Watch from 2:36-3:05

The battle is in no way a representation of who wins the fight. Not only that. A few seconds? If you saw the video transitions you can see that time was passing. And actually in the video they said when superman bathed in the sun FOR, FOR, 10 minutes. 10 minutes is not the required time. Hell he can bathe in the sun for a second and he would get incredibly stronger. The clearly said that the longer and closer superman gets to the sun the stronger he gets.

One other thing that i had to laugh at:

Buyt then you have to ask yourself why would a Bloodlusted(I will discusse more about this later) Goku let Superman do that anyway?Also by letting Superman Sun-dip they are saying he's not strong enough to killed Goku without a powerup.

Thats why goku didn't kill superman in the fight. The only and i mean only trait removed from the characters is the moral "I will not kill" Basically nothing will stop a character from brutally murdering their opponent at the end of the battle. Any other traits, tactics, and attributes, such as fair play, arrogance, etc. Are kept. There really isn't any bloodlust. The whole killing thing is simply eye candy. And its an outlier on the battle itself.

They gave supes no real advantage. In fact if they hated goku as much as you fans say they do, they could have said that superman could give goku a lobotomy at the start of the battle and end the fight right then and there(goku is not capable of perceiving stuff on a molecular and microscopic level so he would have no counter.)The fight was perfectly fair. They gave composite feats for goku, and gave composite feats for superman(but they didn't drag in feats such as his more OP pre-86 feats or the allstar superman feats) The outcome wasn't already decided. They compared research and decided superman was stronger than goku.

To be honest i still don't know why DBZ fans won't shut up in the first place. Without powerscaling and powerlevels. Goku is useless in comparison to most american comic book characters. DBZ is incredibly inconsistent which makes it nearly impossible to gauge the characters. One second the characters can potentially shatter mountains and cities, the next they can barely launch their opponents through rock walls. One second goku is knocking back planet busting attacks, then next, he is struggling to knock back a nuke level blast from vegeta. DBZ is too inconsistent for powerscaling. Dragon Ball on the otherhand is linear enough for powerscaling. And as for the frieza durability argument:

This.

Superman is beaten from near-city explosion which doesn't even have the power of the KI blast Piccolo used

Not only that, all you are doing is throwing low end showings in order to discredit superman. The weakest incarnation of superman was shrugging off nukes like they were nothing. Like they were a fly bite. Heck wonderwoman who is several times weaker than superman physically has done the same thing:

I thank @the_man_with_questions for the scans. BTW.

I can show you DBZ characters struggling to tank nukes. Thats just how inconsistent the series is. To be honest its no surprise Wiz and Boomstick messed up, DBZ is horribly written to the point where i doubt akira even knows the powers of his characters.

There really isn't much to say here.

@cyborgx said:

@immortalone:

@immortalone said:

Well you cared enough to comment..so yeah.

Your logic is flawed. Commenting on a thread doesn't mean I actually give any merits to a 1 year old argument based entirely on power scaling and lowballing Superman. So yeah, I actually don't care about your erroneous argument. Nice try though.

P.S. going by your argument, Superman curbstomps, since Goku was hurt by a rock.

@immortalone said:

@cyborgx said:

@immortalone:

@immortalone said:

Well you cared enough to comment..so yeah.

Your logic is flawed. Commenting on a thread doesn't mean I actually give any merits to a 1 year old argument based entirely on power scaling and lowballing Superman. So yeah, I actually don't care about your erroneous argument. Nice try though.

P.S. going by your argument, Superman curbstomps, since Goku was hurt by a rock.

Loading Video...

Technically it was krillan. Krillan has impressive feats to. Like dying.... and then dying again.. and again and again and again.

Did anyone actually read all that?

@immortalone said:

@cyborgx said:

@immortalone:

@immortalone said:

Well you cared enough to comment..so yeah.

Your logic is flawed. Commenting on a thread doesn't mean I actually give any merits to a 1 year old argument based entirely on power scaling and lowballing Superman. So yeah, I actually don't care about your erroneous argument. Nice try though.

P.S. going by your argument, Superman curbstomps, since Goku was hurt by a rock.

Loading Video...

Dude the blog is 1 year and 3 months old not my fault you started to comment on it like 3 days ago. That scene is purely for comedic reasons-but the fact I have to tell you that means you know that since no one logical would ever read into it.

@immortalone said:

@cyborgx said:

@immortalone:

@immortalone said:

Well you cared enough to comment..so yeah.

Your logic is flawed. Commenting on a thread doesn't mean I actually give any merits to a 1 year old argument based entirely on power scaling and lowballing Superman. So yeah, I actually don't care about your erroneous argument. Nice try though.

P.S. going by your argument, Superman curbstomps, since Goku was hurt by a rock.

Loading Video...

Cant believe people actually try to use that rock showing to say Goku is weak lol I guess nobody has ever heard of comedic relief. If he was really weak enough to be hurt by a rock he would have died in the beginning of Dragon Ball when Bulma shot him.

@deathhero61 said:

@cyborgx said:

@deathhero61 said:

Allot of the things you said was speculation and you clearly know nothing about deathbattle's rules.

What did I miss about Screwattack's rules?

Not only did they not support powerscaling and powerlevels which every DBZ fan likes to ignore apparently.

Also

Then one of the most major flaws they let Superman Sun-dip-which is unfair because they gave Superman an Advantage while giving none to Goku.Also they made like Superman gain such a "huge power bost" by just Sun bathing a few seconds while in the Comicbook they quoted it took Superman 10 mins to archived the feat of moving planets.Buyt then you have to ask yourself why would a Bloodlusted(I will discusse more about this later) Goku let Superman do that anyway?Also by letting Superman Sun-dip they are saying he's not strong enough to killed Goku without a powerup.

Watch from 2:36-3:05

Loading Video...

The battle is in no way a representation of who wins the fight. Not only that. A few seconds? If you saw the video transitions you can see that time was passing. And actually in the video they said when superman bathed in the sun FOR, FOR, 10 minutes. 10 minutes is not the required time. Hell he can bathe in the sun for a second and he would get incredibly stronger. The clearly said that the longer and closer superman gets to the sun the stronger he gets.

One other thing that i had to laugh at:

Buyt then you have to ask yourself why would a Bloodlusted(I will discusse more about this later) Goku let Superman do that anyway?Also by letting Superman Sun-dip they are saying he's not strong enough to killed Goku without a powerup.

Thats why goku didn't kill superman in the fight. The only and i mean only trait removed from the characters is the moral "I will not kill" Basically nothing will stop a character from brutally murdering their opponent at the end of the battle. Any other traits, tactics, and attributes, such as fair play, arrogance, etc. Are kept. There really isn't any bloodlust. The whole killing thing is simply eye candy. And its an outlier on the battle itself.

They gave supes no real advantage. In fact if they hated goku as much as you fans say they do, they could have said that superman could give goku a lobotomy at the start of the battle and end the fight right then and there(goku is not capable of perceiving stuff on a molecular and microscopic level so he would have no counter.)The fight was perfectly fair. They gave composite feats for goku, and gave composite feats for superman(but they didn't drag in feats such as his more OP pre-86 feats or the allstar superman feats) The outcome wasn't already decided. They compared research and decided superman was stronger than goku.

To be honest i still don't know why DBZ fans won't shut up in the first place. Without powerscaling and powerlevels. Goku is useless in comparison to most american comic book characters. DBZ is incredibly inconsistent which makes it nearly impossible to gauge the characters. One second the characters can potentially shatter mountains and cities, the next they can barely launch their opponents through rock walls. One second goku is knocking back planet busting attacks, then next, he is struggling to knock back a nuke level blast from vegeta. DBZ is too inconsistent for powerscaling. Dragon Ball on the otherhand is linear enough for powerscaling. And as for the frieza durability argument:

@swordmasterd said:

You're logic is flawed. If I survive a car driving into me, someone kills me with their bare hands does that mean they're stronger and faster than a speeding car?

This.

Superman is beaten from near-city explosion which doesn't even have the power of the KI blast Piccolo used

Not only that, all you are doing is throwing low end showings in order to discredit superman. The weakest incarnation of superman was shrugging off nukes like they were nothing. Like they were a fly bite. Heck wonderwoman who is several times weaker than superman physically has done the same thing:

I thank @the_man_with_questions for the scans. BTW.

I can show you DBZ characters struggling to tank nukes. Thats just how inconsistent the series is. To be honest its no surprise Wiz and Boomstick messed up, DBZ is horribly written to the point where i doubt akira even knows the powers of his characters.

There really isn't much to say here.

I don't have the time at the moment to engage in a full debate(I would love that)

Okay firstly there's noway your opponent is going to let you stop and rest\chill out at the Sun and get stronger no way bro. Ok so Superman get's stronger the closer he is to the Sun-anybody got solid facts on how much stronger and how fast it takes? There's no guarantee he would be a casual Planet Buster by a few seconds. ALL past Deathbattle Characters have fought Bloodlusted ask anyone and they will tell you,when have any character in Deathbattle stalled or failed to take advantage of a weakness of their foe? Let me answer that:NEVER! You're right about that one-I got nothing, Goku has no defense against Superman lobotomizing him..That's a legit way for Superman to stomp Goku XD. DBZ is terribly inconstant I know... I know..I know it's bugs the hell out of me to,but at least we can TRY to gauge feats and be able to say(with some accuracy ..I hope) that "this is so".We DBZ fans have no other hope I try to stay as optimistic as possible lol. I simply used that showing to prove that Superman can be seriously hurt by physical trauma-however it's misleading as Supes was already weakened by Gog's Kryptonite poisoning-I hadn't read the issue when I wrote this blog..silly me.

I know man it's insane what lengths people will go to in order to discredit Anime Characters.

Lol yeah it really is, idk why so many people dislike Goku and Dragon Ball so much anyway. I get that people get frustrated with some of the fans but every work of fiction has some annoying fans lol

@cyborgx:

. DBZ is terribly inconstant I know... I know..I know it's bugs the hell out of me to,but at least we can TRY to gauge feats and be able to say(with some accuracy ..I hope) that "this is so".We DBZ fans have no other hope I try to stay as optimistic as possible lol. I simply used that showing to prove that Superman can be seriously hurt by physical trauma-however it's misleading as Supes was already weakened by Gog's Kryptonite poisoning-I hadn't read the issue when I wrote this blog..silly me.

Wiz and Boomstick(and friends) only used the theories they used because there was no statements in the DBZ universe that tells the viewers about goku's physical limits, and saying how many planets he can bust is irrelevant and might as well be hyperbole within the DBZ series. At the max goku can destroy multiple planets, he cannot destroy solar systems, he cannot destroy galaxies, and he cannot destroy universes. Each DBZ character as shown their own limits within Ki output. The best example of this is broly.

TL;DR

Goku wins because he's much much much faster than Superman combat-speed wise.

Jmarshmallow

Well I think we can all agree Goku got his butt kicked by a much more powerful being. I mean look at what superman can do.

I'm sorry but I have to point this out.

Saying something like "Okay firstly there's noway your opponent is going to let you stop and rest\chill out at the Sun and get stronger no way bro." is something that can be used against Goku as well.

Goku's spirit bomb takes time to charge. While fighting Superman, Goku should not have had enough time to use that because Superman would have clocked him. No one ever points this out. All they do is complain that Superman got to use his unnatural power up but never about Goku getting a chance to use his.

Neither should get a chance to use their power ups, but Death Battle knew people would complain if they didn't include it, so they let them use it at the same time.

So Superman getting the sun power up is just another one of those things people need to get the heck over or they seem like hypocrites. (Just so you know, I rooted for Goku during that fight but I completely understand why Superman won)

Its been more then a year since that death battle. Fans should just let it go & move on now.

Yea... yea... we all know that they screwed this battle.

They made silly calculations based on wrong assumptions, feats of pre SSJ3 Goku, and huge systematic errors related to the size of certain things in the anime... -.- right, like that's supposed to be accurate or even canon.

all i have to say is that i didn't even read because i've seen lots of post like this, and they are essentially correct... so congratz!! you got it right and they were wrong.

Every dbz expert knows that and none of us ever accepted that result.

I'm surprised nobody brought up that scan of superman and wonderwomen debating who was faster.

Honestly you can post scans of DBZ all you want and make what seems to be valid points but they're going to be struck down as speculation or power scaling. I found that the problem is that people often apply DC/Marvel logic to DBZ and it doesn't work that way. That's why I've come to the conclusion that they shouldn't be compared in the first place.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-goku-727482/

http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-battle-erred-goku-vs-superman

Might as well just leave these links for the op

They can be compared, if people understand and accept the differences as you mentioned. The rules of DC universe don't always apply to DBZ universe, and vice versa, but that doesn't mean there cannot be reasonable debates involving characters from each.

There's a lot truth in your words, and I agree noway in a real fight would your bloodlusted opponent just chill out while you prepare to power up. I'm not complaing because Goku didn't get the chance to power up-I'm saying they miscalculated Goku's strength and overall destructive Power..His speed calculations was also neglected..Bottom line:I made this blog to show people who may not have read the Manga, or know little(or think little) of Goku. I'm, simply amping Goku's abilities in ways Screwattack failed to do.That however doesn't mean that by using my improve calculations that Goku would necessarily win.

Kudos to the creator of this because of all the effort and valid points, but...

Why must this topic be brought up again...? I'm sorry, but debating this when it came out was fun and all, but now it's almost like beating a dead Yamcha. This is pointless because there will never be a definite winner due to mere statements, hyperbole, power scaling, and hypothetical and biased viewpoints of rabid fanboys.

Besides, who said Screw attack ' s Death Battles were the law of the land?

@omnicrono: I take that back. Technically you're right they can be compared but typically these debates don't really go anywhere. Instead of a debate it turns into who can throw the best insult and everyone tends to forget who made the best argument.

@dratini1331: give the guy a break

No use of spoiler block repost/taken from Screw Attack forums from over a year ago. I really have no breaks to give. It's not his content, it's mostly wrong, and It's a pointless necro.

This "Necro blog" is over a year old..Not my fault people waited a year to share there thoughts.XD

@cyborgx: it's cool, necro's happen >.< Iw as too harsh on ya, sorry.

It's fine it's just that so many hate comments..I don't really debate Superman VS Goku anymore but all of a sudden people just flooded in on this blog 1 year and 3 months later for some reason lol.

For being a DBZ fan my take on this huge ongoing ordeal is this: If they did meet and were planning on fighting Goku would have sensed Supermans power level and would have done 2 things be like oh crap or no prob.

So many mature people in here. Why even click on this thread if you honestly don't care? Makes you look like a low life basement dwelling troll with nothing better to do lol

@blade_r: Who are you talking too?

All the people that claim they don't care but care enough to intentionally click on this thread and upload a picture saying nobody cares, and people going "Derp didn't read lol"

@blade_r: Yeah I see what your saying

None of that used to not bother me and it normally doesn't but as of late its been getting on my nerves a little bit for some reason lol

I'm no expert on either. But right or wrong you have my respect for the effort you put in. Shame others could not just acknowledge this.

I wrote this not too long ago, doubtful anyone will read it all. I agree with some things this op said, disagree with a lot of it.

https://imgur.com/a/mhPV8