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#1 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

For the past 2 years readers have wondered IF the DOS actually happened in New 52 continuity. It's been alluded too. It's been referenced. Heck, it was even shown in Doomsday Villains Month issue. But apparently it didn't happen. Yet. Apparently, the Doomsday VM issue was just a glimpse into the future. "The future?" Charles Soule explains it all here.

But here's the interview any way:

Losing his Justice League seat to Lex Luthor isn't the only big thing coming for Superman in April. Readers will also find out what happens in the New 52 when Superman battles Doomsday.

And no… readers shouldn't be so sure that Superman has already been killed by the villain.

Charles Soule, writer of Superman/Wonder Woman, indicates that the previous mentions of Superman's "death" at the hands of Doomsday in the New 52 were misleading (and the quotes around "death" are his). He implies that Superman's revamped mega-fight with Doomsday isn't in thepast of the New 52, but might actually be in the universe'sfuture.

In a storyline that begins in Action Comics,Superman/Wonder Woman, and Superman, the Super-writers are re-shaping the battles between Doomsday and Superman. Soule is working on the Doomsday story withSuperman writer Scott Lobdell and Action Comics writer Greg Pak.

(It's worth noting that Chronicle screenwriter Max Landis, who's writing a digital Adventures of Superman story for DC, revealed last year that he was approached by DC to work with Pak on a weekly, year-long series to reboot the death and return of Superman. He declined the opportunity, but you can see him explain it at right here.)

Soule also indicates that the story will cross through the Superman universe, involving other characters, and will lead into this summer's plans for Superman.

"Superman's due for a real, big, universe-shattering story, and this is certainly that," Soule said.

Readers have already seen a very cryptic sequence related to a "prophesy" about the battle between Doomsday and Superman in the New 52 — as told in Pak'sBatman/Superman #3.1: Doomsday, which was part of September's Villains Month.

Although that sequence wasn't necessarily factual — because it was only a story told by Zor-El to his daughter on Krypton — readers were shown that other heroes "rise" to take Superman's place after his death, including Supergirl, Power Girl, Superboy and Steel.

Since that September issue, Doomsday has been playing a role in Superman/Wonder Woman, which was launched in October. Soule showed a fight between Doomsday and Wonder Woman, and has featured the mystery of the villain's appearance at the center of his new series.

Soule, who's also working on Red Lanterns and Swamp Thing for DC (along with several titles at other publishers), talked to Newsarama about what we can expect from the upcoming Superman story with Doomsday, and whether he and other writers are shaping a new version of the "Death and Return of Superman."

Newsarama: Charles, are you guys all working together on this story? Do the various Doomsday issues in April go together?

Charles Soule: We've been working on this together for months to build a cohesive and really cool storyline across a number of Superman group books.

Nrama: So is it longer than just April — it's several months? And does it touch more Super-books than just those we see in April?

Soule: It goes for quite awhile. I don't want to say it's a certain number of issues, because what we're doing is leaving it open and making sure there's enough room for the story we want to tell. It's very, very big. It goes through the late spring and summer.

It crosses through a number of books. And we're going to look at the effect of Doomsday appearance on all the different characters.

The fun thing about the Superman group is that we have a lot of different elements of Superman, with Superman/Wonder Woman, it's about, in part, his relationship with Wonder Woman. So we'll see how Doomsday returning affects that. And all the other books have their own spin on it too.

Nrama: Ah, so is this the next big thing for Superman?

Soule: It doesn't get much bigger than this. I mean, Doomsday is certainly where we're starting, but there's a lot more that's involved with it, and it's going to put Superman, his entire supporting cast, and a lot of the rest of the DCU through the ringer.

And that's the idea. Superman's due for a real, big, universe-shattering story, and this is certainly that.

Nrama: You've had Wonder Woman and Superman investigating Doomsday since issue #1 of your book. Why did this villain in particular make sense for Superman/Wonder Woman? Or was it just the idea of kicking off the comic with a "big" villain?

Soule: Well, it's certainly the appeal of kicking off a Superman series with one of the biggest villains from Superman's history. You want to do something big if you can.

But also, the Doomsday and Death and Return of Superman story was a big deal in my own personal superhero fandom, back in the day. And so being able to do my spin on it, and touch on it in a way that was, hopefully, cool was a really great thing back then, and now being able to do it in a more thorough way is even better.

Nrama: Did Superman die before in the New 52? Wasn't that alluded to in Grant Morrison's Action Comics?

Soule: Right. Well, the truth is, if you look back at those issues, there was a lot of crazy stuff going on back then, between [Mister] Mxyzptlk and everything else that was going on.

So I think there are a lot of open questions about Superman and Doomsday and his (quote/unquote) “death.” And we will do our best to answer some of them — probably not all of them, but some of them in this story.

Nrama: You said your title is going to deal with how this affects Wonder Woman. Can you tell us anything about how the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Superman is challenged or affected by Doomsday?

Soule: As we move into the second arc of Superman/Wonder Woman, some really crazy things happen in issues #5 and #6, which will be coming up very soon. The strength of Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship will be tested, and they'll be forced to evaluate how they feel about each other.

In the Doomsday story, we're going to see that extrapolated. Some really interesting things happen to both characters, which I wish I could just tell you right now, but I'm not going to spoil them. But they're really cool. And so, what this is about is — relationships are ultimately about learning more about the person you're actually with over time, because nobody is 100 percent themselves in the first blush of a relationship, right? As you learn more, people start to be a little more real about themselves. So we start to see that with these two.

And at that point, the question is, do I like the person who he or she actually is, as much as I did when we were just running around and having crazy adventures in the beginning of this?

So that is a big theme that is going to run through the book over the second arc. Not to say that they don't. You know, another good thing about relationships is that you can change and continue to deepen things and continue to like each other.

It's been fun to write them as a real, mature couple - not as just these people giggling and flying around. It's been interesting, and that's what I plan to continue to do with the second arc.

Nrama: Then to finish up, how's it been working with Tony Daniel?

Soule: Tony and I — whenever you work with a new artist, and at this point I've been lucky to work with a lot of new artists over the spread of the books I've been working on, and I don't mean new to the business; I mean new to me — you take a little while before things start to hum, sometimes. You have to understand them as people and as creative people and as artists before you it all clicks. And I think that's a two-way street. And I think that Tony and I have absolutely reached that point. We text each other and talk a lot about different beats in the stories, and we're trying to figure out how to execute things in cool ways.

I'm very excited about the things to come and what we'll be doing on the story going forward.

So it seems that Superman's death and return is getting rebooted and revamped in honor of The New 52 and apparently the months of April going forward are going to be HUGE in terms of Superman and the rest of the Super-Family. Speaking of the DaRoS, here's a scan of the heroes who rose after Superman fell. Let's note that the original "heroes" who rose were Superboy, Steel, The Eradicator, and Cyborg Superman but it seems now in the reboot we see…Supergirl, Powergirl, Steel, and…Superboy!…and another character who I can't yet point out. Thoughts on this? Do you think this Superboy is going to be Jon Lane or Connor? And who is that new Super-character? Are you excited for this event or could you not care less?

#2 Posted by frogdog (3406 posts) - - Show Bio

#3 Posted by dagmar_merrill (10008 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no point in doing this.

#4 Edited by Jayc1324 (13143 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm happy to hear this. The original arc was one of my favorite superman arcs and it should be cool to see it done again

#5 Posted by StrangeMan (411 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how they can call this a reboot when 75% of it is just a rehash of the last universe, and a bad rehash at that.

#6 Posted by Transformers1024 (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I like those writers, this just seems so pointless. Why can't it just have already happened instead of having it in the future? All it's going to be is a rehash of what happened in the 90's but with a few new twists just to get some attention. I may check it out but it all just seems so dumb. Also, does that mean Hal Jordan was never evil and went on a rampage in Coast City? And his connection with the Spectre?

#7 Posted by Squalleon (4692 posts) - - Show Bio

I am part excited for this, Pak and Soule writing the Death of Superman could lead to a very good story.
My other part is dissapointed in DC's upper managment. This part-reboot DC decided to do backfired hard on them. The lack of a coherent timeline made things convulted and fans enraged/confused.

#8 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by Squalleon (4692 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's get @lvenger @danhimself @theacidskull @deranged_midget @allstarsuperman @sog7dc up in here.

@frogdog: @dagmar_merrill: @jayc1324: @strangeman: @transformers1024: @squalleon:

Question for everyone though as I really am still quite curious about this: Who do you think that fifth member is that rises up after Superman's death & do you think the Superboy in the photo is a returning Connor (with a proper return / new origin) or Jon Lane Kent possibly becoming a hero?

It's Cyborg Superman,his New 52 identity is Zor-El. As for Superboy I have no idea since I don't follow the title.

#10 Posted by Transformers1024 (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: I'm putting my money on Cyborg Superman, I could be wrong but I don't think I am. As for Superboy, I would love it if it was still Conner, but it's more than likely Jon.

@squalleon: That picture of Cyborg Superman... O_O Cannot get enough of that art work...

#11 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: @transformers1024: I was wondering if it's Cyborg Superman as well, it would somewhat make sense, but the character doesn't seem to have any resemblance (though the suits are strikingly similar) to CS now as he is more "cybernetic" where this unknown character looks normal - with the exception of the a scar-. Also CS is pretty much evil now as seen in Supergirl so I don't he'd be defending Kal's honor and I don't think Kara would be okay with him being there.

#12 Edited by Squalleon (4692 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

@squalleon: @transformers1024: I was wondering if it's Cyborg Superman as well, it would somewhat make sense, but the character doesn't seem to have any resemblance to CS now as he is more "cybernetic" where this unknown character looks normal - with the exception of the a scar-. Also CS is pretty much evil now as seen in Supergirl so I don't he'd be defending Kal's honor and I don't think Kara would be okay with him being there.

He has a huge arm, his face around his mouth is all line-y and in his other arm wires can be seen.

if you notice no one looks exactly the same in that pic as in their titles/appearances. Even Steel's suit looks like it is made of bone.
Also considering the colors and style is inspired by ancient greek paintings they could probably made it that way to make it feel mythical .

#13 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm really not too happy about this. Not only are DC going back on themselves thus proving that the New 52 is a messed up 'make it up as we go' continuity without a shred of credible coherence to it, it also shows how DC are that stuck for storyline ideas that they're willing to raid the backyards of the Pre Flashpoint universe. If you're going to reference Superman getting killed by Doomsday multiple times across not just Superman comics, you need to be prepared to stick to that damn criteria. Even with good Superman writer Pak and decent Superman writer Soule on this project, I'm not overly positive about this new direction for the Superman universe.

Regrettably however, it's a Superman centred event and it's a retelling of the Death of Superman which will probably have massive consequences and changes for Superman in the New 52. Thus, if Death of Superman spawns a new event mini series, this will be the first event comic I've bought in at least 5 years or so. I will finally have succumbed to event fever.

#14 Edited by SilverPool (2034 posts) - - Show Bio

Um... I don't know if this is the greatest idea... I mean just remaking events that happened before New 52 for New 52 is pretty cheap.

#15 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'm torn on this matter. On one hand, I admittedly wasn't too fond of the original DoS arc as a whole, I felt it was lacking a lot so this new interpretation of the story could potentially be really awesome. On the other hand, this is another story DC is revisiting from the Post-Crisis Universe and putting a N52 twist on it which does make me think either DC is running out of new ideas AND/or the New 52 is just going to end up being a really long gimmick that will eventually fold New 52 in with the Post-Crisis Universe via a new Crisis event in the future (I know this is a long shot theory but with the possibility of the Anti-Monitor returning in Forever Evil, this theory rises from the dead). In saying all of that, the worst part of this whole thing is…we basically KNOW what's going to happen. Doomsday is released, he fights Superman, Superman is killed, Superheroes rise up in honor of Superman, Lois is all CLAAA--Superman I love you!, then Superman returns and saves the day. We know this death has no significance at all (not that it would have regardless of the story) because we know this is just a rehash. When Clark died the first time, it was all over the news and media, it boosted sales incredibly, people ACTUALLY CRIED. This time? Well this time none of that will happen and Superman will just be like…Jean Grey. Having died twice. All for naught. It stunk to say that, but that's how I view this situation.

I do have to admit that I like the idea of adding Powergirl and Supergirl into the fold of this though -- AND HOPEFULLY that's a proper return of / new Connor and not Jon Lane.

@squalleon: Y'know, I didn't even notice the other arm, now I'm totally convinced that it's probably CS. That changes a lot. Very interesting, I wonder if CS will regain his memories as -you know who- and that'll cause him to want to side with justice.

#16 Posted by Deranged Midget (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's anything remotely similar to Landis' idea's that he shared with Pak, colour me ridiculously PUMPED! Doomsday breaking both of Diana's arms in SM/WM directly reminds of his conceptual story!

Moderator
#17 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13599 posts) - - Show Bio

@transformers1024: Hal was shown to still have his history as Parallax and The Spectre intact.

#18 Posted by Xwraith (20451 posts) - - Show Bio

Why did this story even need to be retold?

It didn't

#19 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

I will wait.

.

.

.

.

and see

#20 Posted by danhimself (22682 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: honestly since I read that article on Newsarama I think it was yesterday I've been kind of avoiding the topic since I don't think my opinions on the matter are really going to line up with everyone elses but since I've been dragged (lol) into this topic I guess I'm going to have to rant lol

here goes

this is a perfect example of what is wrong at DC...we've seen Superman and other characters mention Superman's death several times since the New 52 started and now a writer comes along and decides that to retcon all of that stuff and make up excuses for why it was mentioned....this is the same as the Teen Titans and Tim as Robin situation where we had characters refer to past incarnations of the Teen Titans and Tim being called Robin only for a writer to come along and retcon that out....the issue here isn't the writers...it's the editors and higher ups at DC who put the New 52 together in the first place and the 5 year time skip which seems to be nothing but a source for retconing....they should have had a set in concrete blueprint of what happened during that 5 year time skip between the first arc of Justice League and the rest of the New 52 books because now we have writers trying to fill in that gap and other writers coming in later and adding things that screw up the things that were there first....editors should be catching this and setting things straight but instead they're letting all of it through and it's turning into a clusterf#ck...the other problem is that Batman's and Green Lantern's histories were supposedly left intact despite evidence to the contrary

for instance

if Doomsday never killed Superman and the Reign of Supermen never happened then how was Coast City destroyed which led directly to Hal becoming infected by Parallax and destroying the Corps...none of that could have happened without Superman's death but supposedly it did

I've said before that the 5 year time skip was a horrible idea...they should have started at zero for everyone and then wait to launch Justice League a year into the New 52...instead we've got a continuity that is 1000 times worse and more confusing than anything that happened prior to Flashpoint...the New 52 shouldn't be retconning anything yet

wow that was one he!! of a rant that I'm 100% sure that I've posted in various forms around the site more than a few times already lol sorry guys

#21 Edited by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: I share your lack of fondness for Death of Superman. Whilst it had its moments, The Return aspect was particularly goofy IMO. There have been loads of theories that the New 52 is going to somehow fold in on the original Pre Flashpoint universe which I'm not sure how that will come off. All that'll show is that DC really are out of ideas that they're going back to the drawing board. As for Forever Evil, I think boom tubes showed up in Ultraman's origin issue for Forever Evil so if it weren't anything to do with Darkseid, it would be a major throw off for anyone reading the event. Anti Monitor showing up this soon is extremely unlikely IMO.

Back to DOS, I totally agree with your succinct analysis of how the event will go down. The death will have no meaning since everyone knows that DC'll bring Superman back like they did last time and thus the media coverage, emotional outcry and significance of the event will lack the gravitas and shock value the first Death of Superman arc brought and that had lasting consequences throughout the Pre Flashpoint era. In contrast, this New 52 DOS story won't have that same significance because it's just a rehash of a classic storyline. Which is a real shame.

@deranged_midget Landis' pitch in his video was a pitch without the contributions of Greg Pak. The pitch in that video was only what Landis would do on his own in an Elseworld, non canon universe. Pak may have different ideas and takes on his own interpretation. And colour me so very not pumped if it is like what Landis pitched. There were some deep flaws and misgivings I have with his Death of Superman take suffice to say.

#22 Edited by TDK_1997 (15079 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though I am not really fond of DC just rehashing old stories and ideas I am a little bit excited for this.I really want to see how will these three writers play out the whole story and how they will handle everything around the big battle and the so called ''death'' later.Pak and Soule are good writers at least in my opinion and if they really try and work as a team I won't have a problem with Lobdell being part of all of this.But the biggest problem here is that the ''death'' of Superman will have almost no consequences in the real world since we know that he won't die and his return is even teased before we have seen the actual Death of Superman storyline.

#23 Edited by Dud317 (297 posts) - - Show Bio

People may crap on Snyder for his big events, but he's always said he contains his stories and there's no need to read other issues. That doesn't sound like the case for this. I like what Soule's done with Red Lanterns and Letter 44 but if they spread it across all super books, I'm out sadly.

#24 Posted by SOG7dc (7814 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee:

I'm doing the pre52 thing for a while. The new52 has lost me mainly because of what they've done with superman. I will be watching this from a distance a did it's good I'll pick it up. I tend to think that's going to be Jon lane. Or rather I hope it is because I really don't want another convoluted return from death. And that new character is intriguing....maybe it's another kryptonian from the house of el? Maybe a reformed Brutaal? I really don't have a clue. Maybe tier making a new character since the original DOS is associated with the debut. Several characters.

#25 Edited by JakeN7 (12799 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how they can call this a reboot when 75% of it is just a rehash of the last universe, and a bad rehash at that.

That's exactly what a reboot is. If it wasn't retelling old stories in new ways, it would either be the same old universe as before, or a completely different entity all together. Are you saying Batman: Year One isn't a reboot because it's just a story first told in Detective Comics #27 (1939)?

#26 Posted by SOG7dc (7814 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself:

Dude this rarely happens but I agree with everything....literally everything you just said.....

#27 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5607 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34287 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: This could be good or it could be real bad IMO. I really like Pak I think he's a great writer an his is the best Superman book (after Morrison) in my opinion and Soul is a pretty good writer as well but I am really not interested in SM/WW at all, I think it's a bad gimmiky pairing but I'v not actually read any of it and then there is Lobdel gah I kinda wish they would just delay it till Johns takes over but I'm presuming Johns will be taking over in the aftermath since he said his run will be like a semi-reboot for the character? But I really do like that teaser above (even with the triangle noses look weird) I think the costumes look pretty cool for a non-permanent change up and if this serves to solidify the Superfamily in to a more cohesive group then I'd be pretty happy with that.

Also that guy is totally Eradicator

#29 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: I do agree it could either be really good or really bad. As long as they iron out the flaws of the original and try to do something fresh with this rehashed storyline, a New 52 DOS story does have the potential to do well. But there are a lot of problems to overcome to get there suffice to say. And perhaps this could bring the SuperFamily closer together.

Agreed, that has to be the Eradicator right there.

#30 Edited by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

I might just might get this if DC chooses to retcon the Zor-el/Cyborg Superman rubbish,bring back Henshaw.

But really what next? No Man's Land? Identity Crisis? Jason Todd dies again? Batman gets his back broken? DC has completely run out of ideas.

#31 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (34287 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: What I think they should have done to begin with is not come out and say "Oh hai guyz, we'r doing a retelling of Death of Superman" instead they should have amped it as a huge Doomsday event and then suddenly in the middle of the event Doomsday beats Superman to death and everybody will be like...

#32 Posted by danhimself (22682 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@danhimself:

Dude this rarely happens but I agree with everything....literally everything you just said.....

I kind of feel bad that you rarely agree with anything I say :( ;)

#33 Posted by SOG7dc (7814 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself:

lol no I meant that I rarely totally agree with anyone

#34 Posted by The Stegman (25488 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: I completey agree with you, Continuity right now is a total mess.

#35 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: I thought I responded to this yesterday so I apologize but I have to say you really hit the nail on the head with that post. Yeah, maybe it was "a little repetitive" as you've said similar things to this before on the site, but lets be real here, we ALL have been like broken records expressing the failure that is The New 52. I said this above, I think, but I do think (more like hope) the mysterious force at the end of Forever Evil #5 is the Anti-Monitor, or some universal force, that will cause something of a "Zero Hour" so DC can further attempt to smooth the edges of this rough universe or just grace us with a "Universal CRISIS" event and combine the two universes (New Earth and Prime-Earth) and then release some sort of encyclopedia or omnibus that explains DC's history. I believe they did that for Post-Crisis earth. That way we can have our old Universe back but with New 52 stories retconing (or adding to) the old stories - such as Zod/Doomsday, Barbara's rise as Batgirl again, new history for Spoiler, Talon, etc.

Also that guy is totally Eradicator

@lvenger said:

Agreed, that has to be the Eradicator right there.

People above said that they think it's Cyborg Superman who has reformed or is acting like a hero because the suit in the photo above is similar to the suit CS wears in addition is the deformed right arm that seems to be similar to CS's now cybernetic long arm. I briefly thought it could be Eradicator because he was in the original story as well but if you've seen him in the pages of Superboy during The Return of Krypton…you'd know it is not the same Eradicator we once knew. I admit though that I am curious and excited if this unknown hero is one of the two or someone completely new. (Spoiler block is new Eradicator)

#36 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: I completey agree with you, Continuity right now is a total mess.

This xTenfold. It really angers me when readers who jumped on with The New 52 dispute with readers who have read for years before the reboot with the argument that they don't care about continuity flaws and how the history of the universe is in shambles with nothing concrete. That is the foundation of a solid comic book universe, in my opinion.

#37 Edited by SOG7dc (7814 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee:

Now wait a minute I'm a new reader and I hate the new 52 continuity. I'm currently reading pre-52 GL and GLC, pre-52 wildcats 3.0, irredeemable, saga, harbinger, and new52 supergirl.....I love....LOVE new52 supergirl

#38 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: Ah I'd forgotten that the Eradicator had already showed up in the New 52 already. Maybe it's a merger of that Eradicator with something else? Nah that's not convincing, I guess the most convincing explanation is that it is Cyborg Superman instead.

@jonny_anonymous: Well even if they just mentioned Doomsday, people would immediately suspect Death of Superman so trying to downplay its significance wouldn't have concealed what DC were planning to do really.

#39 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34287 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Yea but even if they did, pepole would be like will they, wont they and it would have at least added a bit of mystery about it.

#40 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@arturocalakayvee:

Now wait a minute I'm a new reader and I hate the new 52 continuity. I'm currently reading pre-52 GL and GLC, pre-52 wildcats 3.0, irredeemable, saga, harbinger, and new52 supergirl.....I love....LOVE new52 supergirl

Here's the difference between you and the rest of the new readers, in my opinion, you have respect for the past. I've seen tons of your posts asking what post-crisis stories to read and such, so I know you're getting a really great understanding of the pain us "old" fans are experiencing (even though I'm 20…). Fans love their continuity, that's important to them. The New 52 doesn't have to have our old stories (though we prefer it) as long as we know what the heck happened within those five years but we don't know and neither does DC. That's whats most annoying. Also…the Pre-52 GL universe was the best, the quality really went down post reboot. Irredeemable is great too, I suggest incorruptible also as that story runs parallel to it. Saga is amazing, I trade wait on that one. Harbinger is decent, it was great pre-Harbinger Wars, now I feel that it's just okay. I like New 52 Supergirl but I prefer pre-52 Supergirl, I just felt she had a better origin, development, and personality. But that's just me. I probably sound really pompous and pretentious right now because I categorize DC readers with pre and post reboot but that's only because they're usually so different.

#41 Posted by JulieDC (1048 posts) - - Show Bio

At least I know I'm not missing out by sticking with Pre-New 52. I won't be surprised if this version is even more darker and grittier than the one from the Dark Age of Comics! And if it is, that is NOT a good thing! It seems rather early to be redoing stories not only because the previous one is only 20 years old, but also because DC has failed to really get us to emotionally invest in many of these New 52 characters which is required if the story is supposed to have any meaning or impact like the original did.

#42 Edited by JulieDC (1048 posts) - - Show Bio
@sog7dc said:

@arturocalakayvee:

Now wait a minute I'm a new reader and I hate the new 52 continuity. I'm currently reading pre-52 GL and GLC, pre-52 wildcats 3.0, irredeemable, saga, harbinger, and new52 supergirl.....I love....LOVE new52 supergirl

I'd like to think that me and you are among the more enlightened new readers that were saved by curiosity to check out pre-New 52 stories.

#43 Edited by PhantomLantern8 (526 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be disappointed if I don't see a Reign of the Supermen if they actually kill Superman.

#44 Edited by danhimself (22682 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: I thought I responded to this yesterday so I apologize but I have to say you really hit the nail on the head with that post. Yeah, maybe it was "a little repetitive" as you've said similar things to this before on the site, but lets be real here, we ALL have been like broken records expressing the failure that is The New 52. I said this above, I think, but I do think (more like hope) the mysterious force at the end of Forever Evil #5 is the Anti-Monitor, or some universal force, that will cause something of a "Zero Hour" so DC can further attempt to smooth the edges of this rough universe or just grace us with a "Universal CRISIS" event and combine the two universes (New Earth and Prime-Earth) and then release some sort of encyclopedia or omnibus that explains DC's history. I believe they did that for Post-Crisis earth. That way we can have our old Universe back but with New 52 stories retconing (or adding to) the old stories - such as Zod/Doomsday, Barbara's rise as Batgirl again, new history for Spoiler, Talon, etc.


I think what bothers me the most about all of it is that it seems like it's driving me away from characters that I don't want to stop reading....I keep finding myself with a bigger and bigger pile of unread books each week that I really don't want to drop but I just can't keep reading these characters anymore....people seem to be praising Pak's work on AC but for me he's still writing the same New 52 Superman as everyone else and that's not Superman to me the quality of the stories may have gotten better but the character is still the same so no matter how good those stories get I just can't find any emotional attachment to these characters....they've changed Superman's character so much and I just can't seem to find anything good about any of those changes

#45 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: This is how I view Pak's Superman: "Build up." Pak is only on the book a few issues and to me I think his goal is to progressively inch Superman back to what he once was. His Superman is taking baby steps; you see the smiles, you see that he has to befriend everyone, you see he WON'T kill, and you see "there's always a way." DC doesn't want the boy scout version anymore, for whatever reason, so Pak is slowly giving the readers bits and pieces of what they want just to show you "He's not completely gone!" He didn't want to kick off his run with an over explosive arc featuring someone from Clarks rogue gallery, he wanted to prove he can work within the system, build up a good story with something "fresh and new" and then build to something grander while planting seeds of the pre52 Superman. Who knows, that's just how I see it when I read his stories, maybe I'm just too hopeful because I'm really just losing my mind here with The New 52. With all that said, to bring this back to what you initially said about your pile getting bigger and bigger of unread books…there's where I'm at. For example: I've recently decided to drop books such as Green Lantern and GLCorps, which used to be two of my favorite books, because I don't like the new direction. I just feel that I'm dropping so many DC titles and finding myself picking up more Image trades, Valiant titles, and Marvel titles and that really does pain me because I still love DC. It's like that girlfriend who has that abusive boyfriend. All your friends are telling you to leave him but you can't so you just make up excuses like you have CDs in his car. I can't completely drop DC even though I hate it. /Rantlol

#46 Posted by danhimself (22682 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: I don't really have anything taking the place of the DC books I've dropped...the only ones I get excited about anymore are the digital books Smallville, Batman Beyond, and Justice League Beyond....I think Marvel's been doing some great stuff since Now kicked off...I really like the Avengers books and love the Superior books....but as it is my pull list is just getting smaller and smaller...I've dropped all of the Batman books except for Batman, the Superman books are still there but until Lobdell leaves Superman that's on the unread pile and the others are still there because of my love for Superman...Teen Titans and Superboy have been on the unread pile for the past two months now because of the way they've treated "Superboy, Tim, Cassie, and Bart" ....the GL books have been dropped...and I think that's about it

I feel pretty much the same now as when Morrison took over X-men (I know it's sacrilege) like I'm on the verge of dropping comics all together for a while and there are only a few titles keeping me going

#47 Posted by toptom (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

Death of Superman was one of my favourite stories of the character and it was the one who has made me love the comics in general. I am really excited and also a little worried to see a new (and inevitable i suppose) take on that story arc, and i really really hope Pak,Soule and Lobdell will deliver an icredible run.

#48 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12233 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: Ah see for me, as my pull list gets smaller I then decide to "branch out" more so I can fill the void, so to speak. As of two days ago I've started rereading (caused by me revisiting the one shot story in Superman/Batman featuring Tim and Connor) Young Justice and it's just painful to read. Not because it's bad, but because it's so good and knowing that development is all gone. We've discussed this before so I won't dive into it again but it's just knowing how bad these characters are now, the interest is gone and all that remains is nostalgia for reading about the characters I once loved (which is about 95% of the DC books I read). I've dropped Superboy and want to drop Teen Titans but since there are 2 issues left I decided to hold on and see how it ends - though I wonder if the final page from Green Team's last issue will have anything to do with the ending of this series / beginning of the new team in the new series. Don't get me wrong though, there are still series I do enjoy from DC…Action Comics, Superman/Wonder Woman (oops), Red Lanterns, Green Arrow, and a few others but over all, but I think that's because I'm forcing myself to enjoy the new status quo. I used to only read DC (and a select couple from Marvel) prior reboot but now I'm all over the industry trying to fill that "void." In regards to Superman though, I do think I'll be picking up his all of his titles because his future does seem bright post-Lobdell, even with the DoS arc coming up. (PS: Sorry if this seems convoluted)

#49 Posted by buttersdaman000 (10216 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh

#50 Edited by SOG7dc (7814 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee:

Even johns run? I felt it was a nice end to his tenure on GL

And @juliedc

Yeah I agree. There's a lot of good work from pre-52. My main issue with the new52 is what it COULD have been. The new 52 could have been something so spectacular and amazing if they put the work and the thought in to it... But a it sits is just a lot of very Okay work with very few things that are really good (like new52 supergirl that I think is good and WonderWoman.....and that's really it.....oh New 52 Shazam is wonderful IMO)