#1 Posted by ccraft (5559 posts) - - Show Bio

My complaints are mostly at the editors, but you already know about AC with Andy & Tony... And the 5 year thing (1825 days), why not 10 years?

Its really hard to think of negative stuff, so lets hear what your complaints are CV! I'll probably see some that I'll agree with, most likely will deal with missing characters.

#2 Posted by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

DC is doing a terrible job at organizing the New Earth universe and too many unnecessary titles that were released or are still being released.

#3 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by MattGalvatron (14 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 is fine my biggest complaint is super messy continuity. They rebooted and still everything is messy, Batman wasn't Batman yet in Batman issue zero but then he had Damian 10 years ago and he was shown in the bat cowl. Stuff like that is confusing and I don't even think they know whats in continuity and whats not with Batman? Dick was Never Batman? Did Bane Break Batman? Some events they act like they happened while others haven't happened yet and are first encounters its really strange.

#5 Posted by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't have time for such a long list.

#6 Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow (1402 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I think they kept the back break cause Bane mentions it. But I hated the reboot of the characters I mean WTF! And I didn't really enjoy Banes first appearance, but his appearance in Talon was cool. (He needs his own series) But srsly why change character history that pissed me off!

#7 Edited by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't have time for such a long list.

Will you have time later today?

#8 Posted by Manwhohaseverything (2085 posts) - - Show Bio

Few complaints. All in all, I think it's better than what they had pre-52. Some of the books are great, some are good, some suck. That's always going to be true for every company, all the time. I don't care about any of the missing characters. There's a reason they're missing. Few people cared about them before. Heck, few people care about them now, the ones that do are simply more vocal, and have mediums like this to express their displeasure (Not knocking it, that's what the Vine is all about.)

#9 Edited by grabthecrown (4 posts) - - Show Bio

#1 , replacing Martian manhunter with cyborg, it seems an attemp to push diversity but there are plenty of ways to do that without the using a character as generic as cyborg.

#2, dead man didn't even get a shot at his own series not to mention the cancellation of the resurrection man series wich started off really strong.

#3 the end of vertigo.

#4 Hal Jordan no longer destroyed the whole GL corps and Kyle Rainer no longer rebuilt it.

#5 action comics started off so well and then so quickly devolved back into a typical superman book.

#6 Jim lee's image art style, I'm sure he's an awesome guy but his designs are so generic and everyone is so over built. Batman is too muscular supermans suit is stupid etc, etc.

#6 doing an entrigan book that doesn't take place in modern times....like at all. Jack Kirby's original run is still the best.

#7 no love for the spectre

#8 where the hell are the creeper and Ragman?

#9the elimination or under use of some of the most classic villians.

#10 not enough writers and artist and not enough series.

#10 Posted by ccraft (5559 posts) - - Show Bio

@banestrokelobogrundybatarrow: I didn't like Bane's first appearance either, but its interesting how hes somehow involved into the Talon title.

@mattgalvatron: They mentioned Dick being batman 2x now, one reference was in B&R 19 when Batman said that he did die.

#11 Edited by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

@chronus said:

@smashbrawler said:

I really don't have time for such a long list.

Will you have time later today?

Dunno, I feel like everything has already been said. Plus, I already made a long-ass rant today, not feeling like doing another one :P

#12 Edited by Queso6p4 (1463 posts) - - Show Bio

#1 , replacing Martian manhunter with cyborg, it seems an attemp to push diversity but there are plenty of ways to do that without the using a character as generic as cyborg. Definitely agree with this but his spot on JLA kinda makes up for it.

#2, dead man didn't even get a shot at his own series not to mention the cancellation of the resurrection man series wich started off really strong.

#3 the end of vertigo. :(

#4 Hal Jordan no longer destroyed the whole GL corps and Kyle Rainer no longer rebuilt it.

#5 action comics started off so well and then so quickly devolved back into a typical superman book.

#6 Jim lee's image art style, I'm sure he's an awesome guy but his designs are so generic and everyone is so over built. Batman is too muscular supermans suit is stupid etc, etc.

#6 doing an entrigan book that doesn't take place in modern times....like at all. Jack Kirby's original run is still the best.

#7 no love for the spectre This is one of mine too

#8 where the hell are the creeper and Ragman?

#9the elimination or under use of some of the most classic villians.

#10 not enough good writers and artist and not enough series. "fixed" :-)

I'm not fond of the direction Batgirl has gone in. What happened in issue 19 was the summation of a wrong direction for the character.

Also, getting back to supernatural characters, unsurprisingly, the Phantom Stranger's treatment by DiDio has been abysmal.

Pretty much what everyone has said about the Batman/family continuity. It just doesn't make sense. Even if you just stuck to the past 30 or so years or Bat continuity it just doesn't work.

#13 Edited by DH69 (4193 posts) - - Show Bio

costume changes for the women, i dont mind if they're trying to go with less "sexist" looking suits, but my god most of the new suits New 52 and Marvel NOW have released are just terrible looking.

#14 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

#1 , replacing Martian manhunter with cyborg, it seems an attemp to push diversity but there are plenty of ways to do that without the using a character as generic as cyborg.

#2, dead man didn't even get a shot at his own series not to mention the cancellation of the resurrection man series wich started off really strong.

#3 the end of vertigo.

#4 Hal Jordan no longer destroyed the whole GL corps and Kyle Rainer no longer rebuilt it.

#5 action comics started off so well and then so quickly devolved back into a typical superman book.

#6 Jim lee's image art style, I'm sure he's an awesome guy but his designs are so generic and everyone is so over built. Batman is too muscular supermans suit is stupid etc, etc.

#6 doing an entrigan book that doesn't take place in modern times....like at all. Jack Kirby's original run is still the best.

#7 no love for the spectre

#8 where the hell are the creeper and Ragman?

#9the elimination or under use of some of the most classic villians.

#10 not enough writers and artist and not enough series.

#4 actually that might not be true, but it does come under the "continuity is messy" complain

#6 what are you talking about Demon Knights is awesome, one of the few good things on DC right now

#7 you mean the black specter, yeah that was a fail, including renne montoya

#10 this is probably one of the biggest problems on DC, some artist are just not good writers

@chronus said:

@smashbrawler said:

I really don't have time for such a long list.

Will you have time later today?

Dunno, I feel like everything has already been said. Plus, I already made a long-ass rant today, not feeling like doing another one :P

Its ok, just take a break and save your strength for later, we can reschedule

#15 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio
  • No Cassandra Cain
  • No Wally West
  • Brown/red Beast Boy
  • The timeline is too tight. Superheroes popping up 5 years ago doesn't leave enough room. Make it 10 years; doesn't it sound like a nice ring to say that superheroes became public at the start of the millennium?
Moderator
#16 Posted by Black_Claw (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Making Amanda Waller skinny. She was one of the most unique females in the DCU in terms of design but DC just had to come up with this rule that every woman in that world should look like a supermodel.

2. How Cyborg has done nothing to show why he's a perfect for the league. At first I was excited to hear that one of my favorite titans was going to be among one of the top dogs in the DCU. But for the past two years he's done nothing interesting other than being the leagues living transportation vehicle. So that's it DC Comics? After all this talk about how much you love Cyborg and how "his time has come" and he's nothing more than a fucking bus for the rest of the justice league? Man **** you guys. Now I'm starting to see that you guys didn't put Cy on the league because you honestly wanted to do something interesting with him and more because you just wanted to look diverse to the public.

3. The whole five year timeline. Really makes things confusing.

4. Nightwing's suit being red. But this is just a minor nitpick.

5. How you thought it would be Wonderful for a hack like Scott McDaniel to write Static's ongoing instead of John Rozum, a guy who worked at Milestone and was close friends with Dwayne Mcduffie. McDaniel didn't know jack shit about Static and it painfully showed in the comic. I bet Dwayne is rolling in his grave right now.

6. The creeper being a katana villain. Just why?

7. Superman/Wonder Woman. Just nothing more than a plot device instead of trying to turn it into something interesting.

#17 Posted by sinestro_GL (3321 posts) - - Show Bio

Few complaints. All in all, I think it's better than what they had pre-52. Some of the books are great, some are good, some suck. That's always going to be true for every company, all the time. I don't care about any of the missing characters. There's a reason they're missing. Few people cared about them before. Heck, few people care about them now, the ones that do are simply more vocal, and have mediums like this to express their displeasure (Not knocking it, that's what the Vine is all about.)

I mostly agree ^

Some of the biggest complaints have been the timeline. Honestly, I don't really care for that...that's just over-thinking, isn't it?

As long as I get great stories, e.g. Court of Owls, Death of the Family (Batman), The Rogues (Flash), The Others, Throne of Atlantis (Aquaman), Sinestro, Secret of the Indigo Tribe (GL), then I really can't see any reason to complain.

New 52 has also given rise to lesser known characters like Animal Man and Swamp Thing, whilst introducing a whole new mythos (Talons incl. Calvin Rose).

#19 Edited by RDClip (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

My biggest problem is the stupid 5 year timeline. Not only does it not make any sense. But it kills all the cool history the superheroes in the DCU had built up going back to WWII. So there is no JSA, no legacy heroes and no children of past heroes that are taking up crimefighting. DC has effectively shrunk their universe by a massive margin.

Not only that, but it also diminshes relationship characters had before. For example, in the old DCU Bruce adopted Dick when he was around 8-12 years old, so Dick came to see Bruce as a adoptive father. However in the N52, Bruce adopted Dick at 16 and he was probably gone within 2 years, by that age he wouldn't grow to see Bruce as anything more than a mentor/older brother figure.

#20 Edited by mightyrearranger (1714 posts) - - Show Bio

No Bronze Tiger, Catman, Ragdoll, Spectre, etc, etc... Basically, everything Simone/Bendis from pre-NU52 got slapped around in Flashpoint and continues to be shunned by the new editors/showrunners.

Also, Rogues not using technology.

Some stuff is cool, but overall, I don't get as much fun out of reading the NU52. It's almost like it takes itself too seriously now.

#21 Edited by Queso6p4 (1463 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger said:

No Bronze Tiger, Catman, Ragdoll, Spectre, etc, etc... Basically, everything Simone/Bendis from pre-NU52 got slapped around in Flashpoint and continues to be shunned by the new editors/showrunners.

Also, Rogues not using technology.

Some stuff is cool, but overall, I don't get as much fun out of reading the NU52. It's almost like it takes itself too seriously now.

The Spectre is around (not much of course) just in the Phantom Stranger series (issues 0 and 5). His origin was stupidly re-done in the zero issue, and he popped up in Constantine #2 - The Blind Man for a really awkward and seemingly unwarranted appearance. He also looked more like Allen than Corrigan which was strange. Actually, he just looked homeless. As you and the OP mentioned, the editorial nonsense has probably been the biggest kick in the balls thus far. I've never willingly dropped titles more so than with the New 52.

@ccraft said:

@banestrokelobogrundybatarrow: I didn't like Bane's first appearance either, but its interesting how hes somehow involved into the Talon title.

@mattgalvatron: They mentioned Dick being batman 2x now, one reference was in B&R 19 when Batman said that he did die.

I was a huge Bane fan starting in middle school when I read the novelization of Knightfall, but his first appearance made me wanna vomit. It was so bad and uncharacteristic.

@jedixman said:
  • No Cassandra Cain
  • No Wally West
  • Brown/red Beast Boy
  • The timeline is too tight. Superheroes popping up 5 years ago doesn't leave enough room. Make it 10 years; doesn't it sound like a nice ring to say that superheroes became public at the start of the millennium?

I do miss Cassandra Cain too, and yes yes it does.

@black_claw said:

1. Making Amanda Waller skinny. She was one of the most unique females in the DCU in terms of design but DC just had to come up with this rule that every woman in that world should look like a supermodel.

2. How Cyborg has done nothing to show why he's a perfect for the league. At first I was excited to hear that one of my favorite titans was going to be among one of the top dogs in the DCU. But for the past two years he's done nothing interesting other than being the leagues living transportation vehicle. So that's it DC Comics? After all this talk about how much you love Cyborg and how "his time has come" and he's nothing more than a fucking bus for the rest of the justice league? Man **** you guys. Now I'm starting to see that you guys didn't put Cy on the league because you honestly wanted to do something interesting with him and more because you just wanted to look diverse to the public.

3. The whole five year timeline. Really makes things confusing.

4. Nightwing's suit being red. But this is just a minor nitpick.

5. How you thought it would be Wonderful for a hack like Scott McDaniel to write Static's ongoing instead of John Rozum, a guy who worked at Milestone and was close friends with Dwayne Mcduffie. McDaniel didn't know jack shit about Static and it painfully showed in the comic. I bet Dwayne is rolling in his grave right now.

6. The creeper being a katana villain. Just why?

7. Superman/Wonder Woman. Just nothing more than a plot device instead of trying to turn it into something interesting.

#1:Definitely agree with you about the Waller thing. I loved to hate her character and liked that she had an atypical body shape.

#2: I feel the same way about Batwing. I liked the idea but the series just floundered pretty quickly and he could've just been left as a peripheral member of Batman Inc. I'm dropping it. :/

#7: Even though I didn't/don't follow Superman and Wonder Woman this seemed horribly forced.

I've also grown to hate the direction Batgirl has taken. I stuck around through 19 issues but enough is enough. I wanna see Babs pull through and reclaim her life, not be further drawn into the madness that is Gotham. Yet another :/

#22 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

How much longer until they bring back the original universe? That is what they need to do.

#23 Posted by Black_Claw (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think the old universe is coming back anytime soon. But the new universe obviously isn't faring any better.

#24 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger said:

No Bronze Tiger,

actually this just came in

Nu-Bronze Tiger

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2013/05/03/what%E2%80%99s-new-in-the-new-52-%E2%80%93-bronze-tiger

and will be on Redhood, not on the Suicide Squad

so yeah, one of the best fighters in the DCU is now a were-tiger.

add that to the list of complains

#25 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a beautiful thread. ^_^ I have nothing to list because everything was listed. However, I'm sure DC is going to give me something to complain about. I don't agree with the person on the women costume designs. The only ones that look really bad are Raven and Supergirl, IMO.

#26 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

1. I prefer to reboot Batman back to the silver age with just 1 Robin Dick Grayson. 2. I prefer Hal Jordan as the only Green Lantern from earth. Can use the other earthlings in the other color lanterns : Carol Ferris as violet lantern, Guy Gardner as yellow lantern, John Stewart as red lantern, Kyle Rayner as blue lantern, etc. 3. For Superman, I prefer to get rid of all the weaknesses and bring back New Krypton colony. 4. For Wonder Woman, I prefer to just get rid of all the useless amazons from the origin since the Zeus daughter origin does not need the amazons at all. 5. For Flash, I prefer all the rogues to have super powers. 6. For Justice League, I prefer to start with only Supes, Bats, WW, Barry and Hal. 7. For Teen titans, I prefer the silver age generation. 8. For Justice Society, I prefer both Justice Society and Crime Syndicate on the main earth. 9. For Legion, I prefer to reboot Legion into the 21st century to compete with Guardians of the Galaxy. 10. I prefer Gen 13/Gen 14/DV8 over Ravagers. 11. I prefer Stormwatch and Authority as separate titles. 12. Prefer Swamp thing and animal man to lead the dark group which should not even be under the Justice League brand name. Maybe a shorter name like The Dark is enough. 13. I was expecting more Milestone titles like Blood Syndicate and Shadow Cabinet.

#27 Edited by mightyrearranger (1714 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: Yay! Certainly a cool thing to wake up to. Kinda weird that he's not like, Ben anymore, but rather an actual...erm...tiger. That may take some getting used to.

His treatment by the New52 writers has really been kinda bipolar so far. So he was too silly for Adam "I'm going create a guy named Yo-Yo" Glass's Suicide Squad, yet it's totally cool for the Outlaws crew to make him a legitimate talking tiger?

#28 Posted by RustyRoy (13825 posts) - - Show Bio

Too many complaints but my biggest one is that when they rebooted it they should rebooted it properly, starting from year one not 5 years later. The timeline is very messy, the sudden change in personality, powers of a character starring multiple book is very confusing and half of the characters aren't acting like themselves. Also the editorial decisions.

#29 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13613 posts) - - Show Bio

#1 , replacing Martian manhunter with cyborg, it seems an attemp to push diversity but there are plenty of ways to do that without the using a character as generic as cyborg.

#2, dead man didn't even get a shot at his own series not to mention the cancellation of the resurrection man series wich started off really strong.

#3 the end of vertigo.

#4 Hal Jordan no longer destroyed the whole GL corps and Kyle Rainer no longer rebuilt it.

Emerald Twilight is still in continuity. it was shown in a preview of GL 20

#5 action comics started off so well and then so quickly devolved back into a typical superman book.

#6 Jim lee's image art style, I'm sure he's an awesome guy but his designs are so generic and everyone is so over built. Batman is too muscular supermans suit is stupid etc, etc.

#6 doing an entrigan book that doesn't take place in modern times....like at all. Jack Kirby's original run is still the best.

#7 no love for the spectre

#8 where the hell are the creeper and Ragman?

Creeper is showing up in Katana but its a nigh unrecognizable version

#9the elimination or under use of some of the most classic villians.

#10 not enough writers and artist and not enough series.

Emerald Twilight is still in continuity. it was shown in a preview of GL 20

#30 Posted by modunhanul (415 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally don't have problem with new 52...

#31 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2273 posts) - - Show Bio

@grabthecrown said:

#1 , replacing Martian manhunter with cyborg, it seems an attemp to push diversity

YES. MM should be there and Cyborg with the titans. DC is just trying to have Cyborg for

  1. Sake of diversity
  2. Have their tech hero after Iron Man became really popular
#32 Posted by TheCannon (19369 posts) - - Show Bio

My Biggest Complaints with the N52 Are:

  • Missing Characters (my biggest complains begins Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain)
  • Messed up continuity (pretty much all I can tell about the new timeline is that all of GL's history is in tact, and certain Batman events such as The Killing Joke and Death in the Family are still canon, and I'm still a bit confused from Batman's continuity)
  • Too Many Bat-books (why do we need 14 Bat-related titles while characters like Blue Beetle [who had an AWESOME ONGOING] and Static [I know he had an ongoing, but it was mediocre] are sitting on the sideline doing nothing. And with this many Bat-books, why is it so hard to throw Stephanie Brown in there somewhere?)
  • Cyborg replacing Martian Manhunter (there was no reasoning for this whatsoever. It was only so they could have a black character on the JL, that's it)
  • 5 Year Timeline (this just makes things confusing. I won't go into it though)
  • What happened and what didn't? (Goes with continuity, but I'm having trouble figuring out what's happened and what is now non-canon. A prime example is Superman. I assumed that Superman's history was erased and started from scratch, but in a recent Batman comic, Bats makes reference to saying that Superman was dead. So, did Death of Superman happen in the new timeline? Another example is whether or nor Tim Drake was Robin, or whether the Teen Titans ever existed. I'm just confused)
#33 Posted by Aurum19 (75 posts) - - Show Bio

My only complaint is lack of Martian Manhunter, other then that I love New 52, for the simple reason that I barely read comics pre-52, and recently got back into them, and forgot everything before that. that's me personally. I think new 52 is good for people who havent read the comics before

#34 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Lack of a Shazam book. They give Vibe and freakin Katana a book, but Shazam gets stuck in the JL backups?

2. Tim Drake not being robin. I mean this is a big slap in the face to Tim Drake fans.

3. Supergirl becoming an annoying whiny b****. She was cool in the pre-new 52, but they made her annoying now.

4.Superman dating WW. I mean really DC, cmon. Put superman and Wonder Woman with people who fit in their respective books and most of the writers other than Lobdell and Johns ignore that it even exists and for good reasons.

5.The poor quality of the Superman books. DC put a good writer on Superman get rid of Lobdell please. He's going to destroy Superman like he did Tim Drake

6. To many unnecessary batman books. I know Batman a popular character, but Batman: The Dark Knight has to go.

#35 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

It exists.

#36 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13613 posts) - - Show Bio
what the ll did you do to him DC!?!?!?

#37 Edited by jesusdisciple001 (546 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt:ouch,nice

#38 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebooted speed force place just awful when compared to the original speed force by Mark Waid. Overly complicated origin for Superboy who now has an origin similar to Stryfe (clone of Cable). A better reboot was needed for Hawk and Dove. Giving up on the Michael Holt title too easily. Omac turned into a Hulk clone. Should've started with a Wildcats reboot. I hope dc relaunches Team 7 set in current time led by Deathblow and Backlash. Not liking the reboots of Bronze Tiger and Creeper.

#39 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. O' Wally, where art thou?.
  2. HAHAHAAHAHAHA no.
  3. Tim Drake..'nuff said.
  4. Superman ongoing is meh.
  5. The continuity is confusing as hell

It could be worse though...

#40 Posted by TitanTempest (327 posts) - - Show Bio

@manwhohaseverything said:

Few complaints. All in all, I think it's better than what they had pre-52. Some of the books are great, some are good, some suck. That's always going to be true for every company, all the time. I don't care about any of the missing characters. There's a reason they're missing. Few people cared about them before. Heck, few people care about them now, the ones that do are simply more vocal, and have mediums like this to express their displeasure (Not knocking it, that's what the Vine is all about.)

I mostly agree ^

Some of the biggest complaints have been the timeline. Honestly, I don't really care for that...that's just over-thinking, isn't it?

As long as I get great stories, e.g. Court of Owls, Death of the Family (Batman), The Rogues (Flash), The Others, Throne of Atlantis (Aquaman), Sinestro, Secret of the Indigo Tribe (GL), then I really can't see any reason to complain.

New 52 has also given rise to lesser known characters like Animal Man and Swamp Thing, whilst introducing a whole new mythos (Talons incl. Calvin Rose).

Agreed, I loved the old continuity, but the New 52 allows for new and fresh stories to be told

#41 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to agree about the timeline not being a problem bec. it is easy to invent your own timeline inside your head. I also agree that good stories are more important than continuity. The New 52 has also given new stuff a chance such as Pandora and The Movement. For the bad reboots, my guess is these can be fixed in future reboots so business as usual.

#42 Edited by TDK_1997 (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

The biggest one is that it actually exists.

#43 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by cfrehse (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

read marvel!

#46 Posted by SheenLantern (6867 posts) - - Show Bio

Not enough feats for Superman for me to use against Goku fanboys

#47 Posted by Bogey (967 posts) - - Show Bio

Not enough feats for Superman for me to use against Goku fanboys

You can't debate that Superman doesn't need multiple episodes to power up.

#48 Edited by lightsout (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

@the OP - "It's really hard to think of negative things"? ......Really?! I don't think I'm being overly negative when I say it's RIFE with things that can be considered a "downgrade" from the previous continuity. On a vague sense the 5-year thing (with the fact that 2 "worlds" were basically not rebooted) causes a lot of issues, but there are many details that are terrible. Most recently the changes made to Martian Manhunter.