#1 Posted by daviddavid7 (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone see similarities between Darth Nihilus and Lord Vitiate, the Sith Emperor? Both feed off of the Force, and after they fed, they left a void where they had been.

#2 Posted by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@daviddavid7 said:

Does anyone see similarities between Darth Nihilus and Lord Vitiate, the Sith Emperor? Both feed off of the Force, and after they fed, they left a void where they had been.

No.... they don't. Vitiate is not consistently hungering, and requires rituals for those draining feats.

#3 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

#4 Posted by JediXMan (30373 posts) - - Show Bio

BioWare said "Hey! Obsidian made a better game than us! Bah! We have to do better; we'll make a new character who also happens to rely on draining. It'll look like we are the ones who had the idea!"

I'm bitter.

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#5 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Lol. To bad this statement is true.

#6 Edited by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoyHarperBLOW: @JediXMan: Wouldn've been true if Vitiate did rely on draining. Unfortunately, he doesn't. However, BioWare spits in the face of actual Star Wars because Vitiate is a rip-off of Palpatine and is a poor attempt to defeat him.

#7 Posted by Shutdown (96 posts) - - Show Bio

Similar in ability but Vitiate's backstory is still unknown. Honestly I was disappointed with it.

@ShootingNova: Btw nice av. Smite is awesome.

#8 Posted by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shutdown: Haha. You play Smite? And thanks.

Similar in ability but Vitiate's backstory is still unknown. Honestly I was disappointed with it.

Actually, Vitiate does have a backstory which is explained in The Old Republic: Revan. And more in TOR itself.

#9 Posted by JediXMan (30373 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@RoyHarperBLOW: @JediXMan: Wouldn've been true if Vitiate did rely on draining. Unfortunately, he doesn't. However, BioWare spits in the face of actual Star Wars because Vitiate is a rip-off of Palpatine and is a poor attempt to defeat him.

While it's true that he is more of a Palpatine ripoff than a Nihilus ripoff, there are aspects of Vitiate that seem to have come from Nihilus.

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#10 Posted by Shutdown (96 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I know about his backstory. What I should have said is he seems like a stereotypical villain. Not as compelling as other Sith. I found Malgus and Jadus to be far more interesting.

Honestly I was sad when Malgus died. Such promise.
#11 Posted by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shutdown: Malgus never died.

@JediXMan: Such as?

#12 Posted by JediXMan (30373 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Shutdown: Malgus never died.

@JediXMan: Such as?

Primarily, the feeding on planets thing. And the planet (don't care enough to remember and too lazy to loo it up) that he drained was described as a "wound in the Force" by Meetra and, I believe, Revan. Scourge may have, too (Karpyshyn has a way of beating a point into the ground. Repeatedly).

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#13 Posted by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: What are you talking about? Many times, Meetra has noted the distinction between Malachor and Nathema:

As the Ebon Hawk descended through the atmosphere, however, she realized this sensation was markedly different.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

The events of Malachor had left a mark on the Force; a wound that would not heal. Here, however, the Force was simply... gone. It was as if someone had ripped it away, leaving only an empty void behind.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

On Malachor she had felt the echo of great destruction; here there was only the unbearable void of annihilation.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

#14 Posted by JediXMan (30373 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova:

I realize the difference. The similarity, however, smacks of unoriginality. The choice of words sounds like BioWare covering themselves (badly).

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#15 Edited by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Perhaps. Though it should be noted that again, this is another example of Karpyshyn's abysmal understanding on the Force.... a Wound in the Force, while not the same as the Void, is still a "non-presence of the Force". But it would leave behind a powerful echo. The Void leaves absolutely nothing behind, and attempts to feed on others' Force Power.

#16 Posted by Shutdown (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Didn't he die in TOR in one of the raids?

#17 Posted by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shutdown: Vitiate? No, his Voice did. His essence is still hiding and recovering.

#18 Posted by Reactor (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Shutdown: Malgus never died.

@JediXMan: Such as?

Primarily, the feeding on planets thing. And the planet (don't care enough to remember and too lazy to loo it up) that he drained was described as a "wound in the Force" by Meetra and, I believe, Revan. Scourge may have, too (Karpyshyn has a way of beating a point into the ground. Repeatedly).

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: What are you talking about? Many times, Meetra has noted the distinction between Malachor and Nathema:

As the Ebon Hawk descended through the atmosphere, however, she realized this sensation was markedly different.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

The events of Malachor had left a mark on the Force; a wound that would not heal. Here, however, the Force was simply... gone. It was as if someone had ripped it away, leaving only an empty void behind.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

On Malachor she had felt the echo of great destruction; here there was only the unbearable void of annihilation.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: Perhaps. Though it should be noted that again, this is another example of Karpyshyn's abysmal understanding on the Force.... a Wound in the Force, while not the same as the Void, is still a "non-presence of the Force". But it would leave behind a powerful echo. The Void leaves absolutely nothing behind, and attempts to feed on others' Force Power.

I should bring this out; Darth Nihilus did not cause the devastation of Malachor V, the Mass Shadow superweapon did, at Meetra's command. The destruction of Malachor V merely gave "birth" to Nihilus, in that his dark persona overtook him, and his powers first began to instinctively awaken.

Also, there is a mistaken assumption due to a play on words, partially inducted by BioWare's Revan novel; the echo left by Nihilus' feeding were echoes in the sense that they were areas that were absent of the Force entirely. The echoes being a nothingness is stated several times, by Kreia, by Visas Marr, and in the KotOR II Guide, which further explains Nihilus power. The effects of both Vitiate's and Nihilus' powers are virtually identical; the Force becomes either devoured or stripped away, leaving no presence of the Force behind whatsoever. Even the Jedi Council believed that if such individuals were not breached or killed (Meetra and Nihilus) it could literally consume the Force entirely, ending all life in the galaxy. In retrospect of the evidence and narratives regarding both feeding techniques, there is nothing to suggest one is more "utter" than the other. Even if they were indicated otherwise, it would not necessarily suggest it was more powerful (especially considering Nihilus' Force powers could affect entire star systems at a time through his own power, while Vitiate required armies to expand the effects that wide or further).

The most notable differences is that Vitiate's drain required extensive ritualistic forethought and prerequisites, whereas Nihilus' required only his physical presence (twice it is said that Nihilus only has to speak to utilize his devouring power, Visas Marr and again in the KotOR II Guide), and Vitiate had control over his power, while Nihilus' power controlled him. In addition, Nihilus' power also had a strange Force-esque magnetic/vampiric power, as Kreia states that he and those who imitated his power (the Sith Assassins) not only devoured the Force, but also grew more powerful when around Force Sensitives, and the more powerful the Jedi, the more magnified their own power would be just by vicinity. It was part of the why the First Jedi Purge was so utter, in that the Sith Assassins were almost invincible against the Jedi.

That said, it does seem BioWare attempted to take the best of Palpatine and Nihilus and merge them into an "ultimate bad guy".

#19 Edited by ShootingNova (16348 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reactor: Yes, I realize that. What did we say against that? Nihilus drained Katarr, Vitiate drained Medriaas (Nathema).

The difference is that you can actually hear those echoes upon Nihilus's draining feat, while it is impossible to hear/see or anything upon Vitiate's ritual. Yes, the reason why they got stronger around Jedi was due to them "feeding" on their Force-sensitivity. Although, to be honest, without those advantages of draining and feeding off others' Force-sensitivity, the Sith were pretty weak. Traya would probably be the most powerful otherwise, and Sion next, due to his nigh-immortality. Without his drain, Nihilus isn't powerful at much else.